The 'dangers' of speedballs: myth or reality?

[Fat Pie]

This is a short essay I put together on the supposed myth that the mixture of Cocaine and Heroin known as a 'speedball' to many, is a deadly combination of drugs, and seeing if this rumour has any basis in either logic or reality:

‘Speedballing’, as we all know, is the mixing of Cocaine and Heroin, which is then subsequently taken together (either via injection, snorting or even smoking, through smoking crack and then 'Chasing the Dragon', or vice-versa). There is a prodigious fear of this combo, both in the straight community and the drug taking community. Heroin is seen as dangerous in itself, but the combination of Heroin and Cocaine seems to be considered a volatile mixture, although no one can explain why.

Some articles explain that Cocaine can mask the symptoms of a Heroin overdose, allowing it to set in later. If this is true then what is deadly about the combination? Surely if one has OD'd on Heroin, one has OD'd, and whatever is delaying it is simply preventing that person from falling unconscious for five minutes or so. What exactly is bad about that? It doesn't enhance the overdose (as some believe), and if anything, gives a person a little more time to breath or remain conscious, and thus get help when they do fall over and stop breathing. At the very least it increases the chances of them surviving by supposedly prolonging consciousness throughout the first, initial rush of Heroin throughout the body (and therefore the strongest). If a delayed overdose effect is going to occur, then surely it is the Heroin, and not the Cocaine mixed in with it, that is going to cause an overdose.

What damages this rumour most, however, is the fact that Cocaine is merely a stimulant, not an opiate blocker. Whilst something like Naltrexone can prevent an overdose, it does so not because it is a stimulant, but because it blocks the opiate receptors in the brain, rendering the Heroin unable to release the endorphins of the brain and consequently depress the CNS system enough to stop a person breathing. However, successive doses of Naltrexone are required to stop the opiate binding with the receptors in the brain, until the opiate drug has broken down enough in the blood to render it harmless (hence where the idea of Cocaine delaying an overdose of Heroin may come from, since after a dose of Naltrexone wears out, the Morphine in the system will once again bind to the receptors, and if high enough will cause loss of consciousness and cessation of breathing once more).

Cocaine, on the other hand, is just a stimulant. One concludes through false logic that a stimulant can keep a depressant's effects at bay by 'stimulating' the individual involved, but all this means is that the heart is stimulated to beat faster. In the brain, where the actually messages for breathing are being relayed, all the Cocaine is able to do is release dopamine from the brain's dopamine receptors. The Morphine molecules will still stay very much binded to the opiate receptors of the brain, and if numerous enough, will inevitably cause the individual to stop breathing through depression of the Central Nervous System. If this wasn't compelling enough evidence that Cocaine is useless at preventing a Heroin overdose, there have been a slew of cases where, when an individual suffered a Heroin OD, his friends would inject him with several doses of Cocaine, to try and 'stimulate' his body into consciousness. Needless to say, this was unsuccessful, and the person died anyway (this once happened to a famous celebrity).

Another rumour that persists about the 'speedball', is that taking a stimulant and a depressant at the same time somehow upsets the balance of chemicals in the body, as if there is a delicate balance in our bloodstream that must either go up, or down; introducing both at the same time might 'confuse' our bodies somehow. Of course, there is no evidence to suggest that stimulants and depressants mixed together act in volatile or dangerous way when introduced to our bloodstreams, and there certainly is no 'balance' of stimulants and depressants in our bloodstreams that need to be maintained. On the contrary, mixing a depressant and a depressant can have devastating effects. One old piece of junkie lore was that combining alcohol and Heroin was deadly. Unfortunately, this rumour died out after the 40's, but rather than being a rumour, it is very much a fact. Junkies and users alike need to start repeating this 'rumour' to each other again, because lives are at stake, and lack of information can kill as easily as false information can.

Alcohol is a CNS (Central Nervous System) depressant; when mixed with another depressant, Heroin, for example (which, like alcohol, affects the part of our brains that regulate breathing), the results can be deadly. The individual will lose consciousness, stop breathing, and rapidly suffocate. An individual can lose consciousness and stop breathing for up to an hour if this happens: it takes approximately 4 minutes for the brain to die from lack of oxygen. Thus, time is of the essence in these cases, and medical attention is required immediately. One man is said to have died after drinking alcohol and then smoking Heroin, so this is certainly not an issue to be restricted to those who use the needle only. The same warning for those who mix depressants is easily noticeable in (but still rarely connected up with) cases where alcohol and depressants such as benzodiazepines and barbiturates are involved. A prime example of legal drugs causing factually documented, scientifically proven, and above all, logical, harm to victims; not fairytales invented to make combining two of the supposedly 'hardest' and 'dangerous' drugs (i.e. Heroin and Cocaine), look even worse than taking the two alone. A sort of greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts tale that turns pretty pathetic piles of powder from ground-up flowers into the most evil, diabolical substances man has ever know, made by the Devil himself to snare mankind, the same way he ensnared Adam & Eve, in order to make up for his failure in tempting Jesus, the substances men make millions off and the substances men die for, kill for and go to jail for.

The main fact is that in a mixture of Cocaine and Heroin, the Cocaine is the only substance likely to do damage, by stimulating the heart and causing it to beat rapidly/erratically. This is why, although Heroin users can persist for decades with their abuse, and never show any signs of ill health caused by that substance (in itself), Cocaine stimulates, and therefore wears out, the heart. As a consequence, Cocaine/Crack Cocaine users can find themselves suffering from heart probelms later on in life, after several years of sustained abuse. Overdoses on 'speedballs' can happen, of course (I'm not saying they can't), but if an OD does occur, it will not be the 'speedball' mixture that does it; it will be a concentration of Heroin that is either to pure or too high that does it.

Of course, the best way to dispel a rumour about a drug is to try it yourself - hence all the DARE and 'Just Say No' kids had revelations, but from then on didn't trust anything that anyone had to say, and ended up being arrested, OD'ing or dying, only to be held up as pictures on 'told-you-so' posters by the idiots that put them in that position in the first place by lying to them, instead of just being straight, to the point and truthful, which would have prevented this 'lost generation' drugs crap in the first place! I have tried 'speedballs' on several occasions over several days. I enjoyed them, but didn't become addicted to them, which is probably the greatest danger those two drugs combined will ever pose to anyone. They're too expensive, and often too hard to get hold of at the same time to really become a habit, unless you're rich and have really good connections - even then, most people chose a single drug, and stick to it. I enjoy 'speedballs' at special occasions, if I can get hold of them, and I think they're fantastic. Has anyone else experienced 'speedballs' in any form (smoked, snorted, plugged or shot?), and would like to share their experiences, would anyone like to comment on the article, what they liked or disliked, what they agreed or didn't agree with, what they found wrong, missing or incorrect about the information provided (please provide links to proof, or post proof in their posts if this is the case), and does anyone have any further questions about information in the article I've written?

Thanks for reading/contributing.

[nick]

Umm,I'm a generous grader(try and encourage folks and all that) so I'll give you a D-.Oh what the hell,let's make it a D+.

[nick]

Jesus,i feel guilty now! A C it is and that's my final grade.

Seriously,I'd need to know what you intend to do with this essay to offer detailed suggestions.

[blackman]

Originally Posted by Fat Pie

<snip>would anyone like to comment on the article, what they liked or disliked, what they agreed or didn't agree with, what they found wrong, missing or incorrect about the information provided (please provide links to proof, or post proof in their posts if this is the case)<snip>.[/QUOTE]

I actully think that you're the one that needs to provide proof to their claim.

I know this is an essay on a drug forum, but a thesis statement would really help organize your thoughts and your argument.

[Thanat0s]

myth, speedballs are gods gift to his brave children.

fact.

[harryhood2001]

Wow I we have some real intelectuals on this thread don't we. I know especially with opiate addicts, that most of us are very smart, actually to smart for our own good. Sometimes I wish I WAS just a simple man, without all these 4 and 5 dimesional thoughts, which I believe is a big reason I was so "in love" with opiates to begin with, is that it really calmed my mind, and gave me the feeling that its all good, rather than over analize everything. If you have ever been to Texas you would no that there are alot of "good ole' boys" and they irritate the chit out of me, but sometimes I wish I was as "simple minded" as they seem to be. I might have not had a reason to feel the need to medicate to begin with. Well have a good morning. (Im tippin' the front of my cowboy hat to ya)

[duck]

Capitalizing "Cocaine" is like capitalizing "Chocolate Cake"

[edhorfin]

Maybe some more research is in order. So many willing test subjects here, you could perform a truly large scale study. Maybe the cartel could fund it?

On a more serious note, with stimulants vs depressants, opiates are respiratory depressants, and many deaths from overdose are as a result of respiratory failure, i.e. stopped breathing. BTW, that's just my opinion, no real data to back it up. I don't know if cocaine is a respiratory stimulant, or even if there is such a thing.

Personally, I think death by speedball, or "the full Belushi", happens because it just feels so effing good that its really hard to stop. I'm thankful I always ran out of one drug or the other before I croaked.

[Restharrow]

Originally Posted by duck

Capitalizing "Cocaine" is like capitalizing "Chocolate Cake"

If you liked choclate cake as much as me you would understand Duck.

Will

[MastaKilla12888]

Which celebrity had overdosed on Heroine and then was injected with cocaine??? I know I've heard this before but can't put 2 and 2 together

[chopstix]

F without bibliography/sources, I´m a tough grader (with a confused keyboard).

Personal opinion is that itś possible that either the perceived, or false, notion of a heightened seizure threshold is a risk. Iḿ not sold that there is less danger mixing the two.

Not that I haven´t though, and smiled

[Thanat0s]

Originally Posted by Restharrow

If you liked choclate cake as much as me you would understand Duck.

Will

+1

hawhawhaw!

[duck]

And an academic/scientific-based paper without ridiculous levels of sources is an imminent failure.

[Fat Pie]

Originally Posted by nick

Umm,I'm a generous grader(try and encourage folks and all that) so I'll give you a D-.Oh what the hell,let's make it a D+.

I'm a sad Panda.

Anyone here ever see the movie 'Tommy Boy', with Chris Farley (another actor who supposedly OD'd on a speedball, but with morphine instead of H; dunno how he ended up with morphine, medicinal use perhaps)?

The premise: Tommy is a typical, fat, John Belushi-esque college idiot who hasn't graduated in American History 101 for seven years. He checks his results on the board with the other students after the test:

"Excuse me...please...I just need to...see this..."

He runs his finger down the list to 'Tommy Callahan': D+

"Oh...my...God. I pahahaaassed! I got a D+! I'm gonna graduate!"

He suddenly hugs another student, but then slowly lets go.

"I wish we'd known each other a little better, 'cos this is a bit awkward!"

He runs down the corridor screaming at the top of his voice, doing cartwheels.

"I'M GONNA GRADUTE!!!! D PLUUUUS!!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!"

Great film, great actor, great loss.

Originally Posted by nick

Jesus,i feel guilty now! A C it is and that's my final grade.

Seriously,I'd need to know what you intend to do with this essay to offer detailed suggestions.

Aw shucks, thanks nick.

Originally Posted by blackman

I actully think that you're the one that needs to provide proof to their claim.

I know this is an essay on a drug forum, but a thesis statement would really help organize your thoughts and your argument.

I did provide proof, in the form of scientific facts; stimulants and depressants don't cause automatic OD's, and there is no balance that needs to be maintained between the two. We don't know a lot about how opiates and coke interact with the brain, or why dopamine levels become synergistic when they are taken as one (dopamine levels in brain after taking coke: 400%; dopamine levels in brain after taking heroin: 70%; dopamine levels in brain after taking 'speedball', or the two combined: over 1000%). However, since stimulants and opiates work on different parts of the brain, one cannot automatically OD by taking them together. Did you notice the section where I stated that opiates bind with opiate receptors, and cocaine binds with dopamine receptors? If one OD's on heroin, it is because the levels of Morphine activating those receptors are too high, and interfering with breathing. It doesn't matter how much coke is in the equation, it won't enhance or halt the binding of the opiate molecules with the receptors. It is a stimulant, and functions on a different part of the brain. The only thing that would interfere with those opiate receptors is an opiate inhibitor, such as Naltrexone (which blocks the receptors), or more morphine, which would prolong the effects of an OD and thus leave the individual susceptible to death. As for damage done, we all know that heroin does no physical damage to the body, but cocaine overstimulates the heart, and can damage it, which is where the only real danger in speedballing lies (after OD'ing on the heroin of course). I didn't feel the need to really prove my statements with links because this is basic chemical science 101, and that is how the drugs interact with the brain. I'm not making it up; I read plenty on the subject of drug use, that's why I know the details. but it's a pretty simple premise at the end of the day. Coke and dope affect two different parts of the brain, and although they interact, it is not in a fashion that would create an OD, as say alcohol and heroin would, by severely limiting breathing capabilities and reflexes. The few websites that cover this sort of stuff are very complex, and don't so much answer the issues I've brought up as explain in great detail the science behind them;

For example:

Preface from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9618415

'Cocaine and heroin often are abused together in a combination known as a "speedball," but relatively little is known about ways in which cocaine and heroin may interact to modify each other's abuse-related effects. The present study evaluated the discriminative stimulus effects of a speedball combination of cocaine and heroin. Three rhesus monkeys were trained to discriminate vehicle from a 10:1 ratio of cocaine (0.4 mg/kg) in combination with heroin (0.04 mg/kg). Both cocaine alone and heroin alone substituted completely for the cocaine/heroin combination, although cocaine and heroin were more potent when administered together than when administered alone. Combined pretreatment with the dopamine antagonist flupenthixol and the opioid antagonist quadazocine dose-dependently antagonized the discriminative stimulus effects of the cocaine/heroin combination, but pretreatment with either antagonist alone was less effective. These findings suggest that either cocaine or heroin alone was sufficient to substitute for the cocaine/heroin training combination. To characterize the discriminative stimulus properties of this speedball more fully, a series of cocaine-like and heroin-like agonists were studied in substitution tests. The indirect dopamine agonists CFT, amphetamine and bupropion and the mu opioid agonists alfentanil, fentanyl and morphine produced high levels of speedball-appropriate responding. However, the indirect dopamine agonist GBR12909, the D1 dopamine agonist SKF82958, the D2 dopamine agonist quinpirole and the partial mu opioid agonist nalbuphine did not substitute for the cocaine/heroin combination. Because these compounds produce discriminative stimulus effects similar to either cocaine or mu opioid agonists alone, these findings suggest that the discriminative stimulus effects of the cocaine/heroin combination do not overlap completely with the effects of cocaine and heroin alone. Finally, a series of compounds that produce partial or no substitution for cocaine or mu agonists alone also did not substitute for the cocaine/heroin combination, which indicates that the discriminative stimulus effects of the combination were pharmacologically selective. Taken together, these findings suggest that a combination of cocaine and heroin produces a pharmacologically selective discriminative stimulus complex that includes aspects of both component drugs.'

Did you catch all that? See my point? (although ironically you’ll probably notice something in there that proves me wrong, lol)

Most of my knowledge about this subject actually comes from the stellar books written on H by Frank Moraes; he's a Phd, so I trust his knowledge, and if you're looking to verify my sketchy science, his book are probably best. Also, having used speedballs myself sensibly, I can say myself that they pose no more danger than taking either Coke or H alone. You always have to be careful with drugs, but there isn't some poison mixture that is made if you take both at the same time, and while I wouldn't classify taking a speedball as 'safe' (I included in my article that it most certainly still kill you, but not for the reasons rumoured), it certainly won't cause you definite harm if you do take one through toxic biocombination or anything.

And lastly, I didn't put a preface or thesis statement on my work because it wasn't really an argument; just a collection of facts leading to a solid conclusion. If you disagree with me, by all means point out my errors. I would be vain indeed to think that I was infallible, but if there's anything glaringly wrong with my work, please do point it out, as I would really appreciate the knowledge.

Originally Posted by duck

Capitalizing "Cocaine" is like capitalizing "Chocolate Cake"

Yeah, sorry! I don't know why, but I went back and capitalized all the C's in "Cocaine". Damn, I did it again!

Originally Posted by edhorfin

Maybe some more research is in order. So many willing test subjects here, you could perform a truly large scale study. Maybe the cartel could fund it?

On a more serious note, with stimulants vs depressants, opiates are respiratory depressants, and many deaths from overdose are as a result of respiratory failure, i.e. stopped breathing. BTW, that's just my opinion, no real data to back it up. I don't know if cocaine is a respiratory stimulant, or even if there is such a thing.

Personally, I think death by speedball, or "the full Belushi", happens because it just feels so effing good that its really hard to stop. I'm thankful I always ran out of one drug or the other before I croaked.

That's exactly what I said in my article, opiates are respiratory despressants, which is why mixing them with a CNS depressant such as alcohol can be deadly, as it slows your breathing down until it stops! Cocaine isn't a respiratory stimulant, it stimulates the heart and brain, which is why it has no effect against an opiate OD.

I agree with your Belushi hypothesis too; I think people got the impression he took one speedball and died. He took loads of shots, and didn't even administer them himself, the hooker/drug dealer with him did (Kathy Smith, was that her name?); the one that finished him off was given while he was unconcious. If you take enough of anything, even chocolate, or Vitamin C, you'll die. This wasn't some sudden speedball that ended in death. Johnwas slowly poisoned until his body could take no more; when you combine the compulsive nature of coke, which needs to be taken over again, and mix it with H, which feels orgasmic, it can be very hard to stop. Hence these people end up dying of Heroin overdoses, not speedball overdoses.

Originally Posted by Restharrow

If you liked choclate cake as much as me you would understand Duck.

Will

Yeah, I think that'swhy I did it! Know what I mean?

Originally Posted by MastaKilla12888

Which celebrity had overdosed on Heroine and then was injected with cocaine??? I know I've heard this before but can't put 2 and 2 together

It was a certain musician I believe, but I can't remember who exactly.

Originally Posted by chopstix

F without bibliography/sources, I´m a tough grader (with a confused keyboard).

Personal opinion is that itś possible that either the perceived, or false, notion of a heightened seizure threshold is a risk. Iḿ not sold that there is less danger mixing the two.

Not that I haven´t though, and smiled

I didn't know I was being graded! No fair!

I never said there was less danger in mixing heroin and cocaine together into a speedball combination, what I said was that taking a speedball was no more dangerous than taking a shot of heroin, as that is the only thing in the mixture that can kill you outright if too much is taken, but won't cause damage to the body, unlike cocaine, whcih is proven to affect the heart. And I did state that it was very possible to die from a speedball. I don't want people to think I'm endorsing hard drugs or this use/abuse. And can you expand upon your seizure threshold theory; I didn't really understand.

Originally Posted by duck

And an academic/scientific-based paper without ridiculous levels of sources is an imminent failure.

This isn't an academic paper, it's a short article explaining why speedballs are thouht of to be eadly, and why they are in reality no more dangerous than a shot of heroin alone. The science involved is very basic, cerntered around logic and chemical facts, whilst the info was garnered from several of Frank Moraes, Phd's books, and I recalled some other information froma web article about speedballs, including user data and tests done on animals, although I cannot remember what or where it was. You're welcome to look it up, as well as to challenge my claims and post websites with evidence to the contrary, as I'm sure my little piece isn't infallible or completely devoid of incorrect information. That is why the offer at the end of my article is there.

As for sources, the science is very basic and provable (we all know that opiates bind with opiate receptors, and that stimulants such as cocaine increase dopmaine levels in the brain, for instance), with some of the information (surprise, surprise) not coming from the web, but from books. Considering how many people bad mouth false info on the net, you'd think that info from Phd professors' books would be rather highly regarded, especially one sympathetic to opiate users, and thus not full of biased crap about the evils of speedballs, but rather using solid facts to represent logical claims. It's all in my article (although granted, I left out mention of Moraes; for some reason, while typing my very long article, I didn't think I'd be called out on my facts by fellow opiate users who are well accustomed to learning that not all is what it seems in the drug business.

As for a myriad of sources, would you have read them? I believe it would have been a waste of my time to add pointless sources that no one would read, and felt it better to wait for someone else to ask for the info first. The scientific facts I use are basic, and the logic I apply is founded in that science. Some of my sources were from the internet, such as where I garnered the info about the compatability of speedballs in releasing ridiculous amounts of dopamine, but I cannot remember far back enough about those sites; you are welcome to look if you wish; and the rest came from Moraes's books, which I'm sure more than a few of you have read if you've visited www.heroinhelper.org (which also has a small article on the speedball myth, but not much, and scientific evidence to back it up. Moraes instead uses his books to delve into that subject, and does a fantastic job of presenting the scietific facts as they are.

[Thebane]

I just want to point out that logically there is no way to prove the statement "H and C taken together do not carry any risk of OD greater than an equal amount of H and C used alone." Unless, you spelled out every way H and C affect the body alone and every way they interact to affect the body (which you say isn't even known). Of course, science doesn't know every way they affect the body, alone and especially together, so it is purely hypothetical that one could ever prove what you say you do. In practice, it's impossible to prove something like this doesn't exist (in this case, a greater chance of OD by combining H and C). The only real think you can prove doesn't exist is something simple like "2 + 2 = 5."

The only real evidence, but not proof, would be a good medical study, preferably more than one. But simplistically describing their affects on the body and then saying you can conclude they don't together contribute to an OD is not proof or evidence... And it surely isn't as reliable as subjective reports, since it's logically impossible to do what you claim to do.

No offense meant of course. Just an observation.