Is there a substitute 4 AA...

[Bad Monkey]

I was just wondering/hoping wether there is a substitute 4 AA(actic anhydride).I did have a miniscule amount (about 4 or 5 CC's)which I failed to store propley.Ihade it in a 10 ml siringe,but it ate through black stopper leaving me with a empty seringe(spewen harecore) I've heard that it's possible to recreate a similar acid out easier to come by ingrediants, that will produce similar results.Is this true. BM

[superman]

check out rhodium's archive, www.erowid.org has a copy of it up.

as for a similar acid that will acetylate, nope. there is acetyl chloride, which can be used to make AA, this is probably what you're thinking of.

[bogumil]

Yeah! But does one have to make AA first? I thought there is a way to just use the Acetyl Chloride ...

[asaqwert]

i ahve looked into AA and everything to do with it

as far as i can tell, acetic acid does NOT create anything stronger than morphine, when mixed with it. it does NOT acetylate morphine in any way, it does not create monoacetyl morphine, or any other form of singly acetylated morphine or anything of the sort. the MOST it would POSSIBLY create from it, if the acetate is more strongly attracted to the morphine than the sulphate molecule, or the hcl molecule, then you MAY create morphine acetate, which i think is highly unlikely

what you are more likely to create is morphine sulphate/hcl and acetic acid in a single shot, with nothing extra, and no extra strength or effects

this has been tested a few times by myself, and no extra effects where noticed after cooking my morphine with acetic acid, nothing at all

[insanesteveo]

i swear i read somewhere that you can make acetic anhydride from vinegar. i believe you need to heat the acetic acid to over 800 degrees. im not quite sure on specifics.

someone please pm and tell me im either dumb or may be right.
thanks
-steve

[asaqwert]

Originally Posted by insanesteveo

i swear i read somewhere that you can make acetic anhydride from vinegar. i believe you need to heat the acetic acid to over 800 degrees. im not quite sure on specifics.

someone please pm and tell me im either dumb or may be right.
thanks
-steve

yes, you can

you must head the acetic acid to over 800 degrees, this gets all the water out and dehydrates the acetic acid into acetic anhydride

now good luck doing this without somehow starting your acetic anhydride product on fire, or without somehow losing it all to evaporation

good luck

[insanesteveo]

Originally Posted by asaqwert

now good luck doing this without somehow starting your acetic anhydride product on fire, or without somehow losing it all to evaporation

good luck

bunsen burner, stand, erlenmeyer flask, stopper.
i reckon boiling off the water on a stove on med would do(electric of course), then transfer the flask to the stand and heat to over 800, of course with the rubber stopper on top.

any idea why that wouldnt work? i might take some vinegar from work and try doing a small amount.

another question, as i have never seen or read much about AA, what will it look like? thick liquuid? thin? clear? brown? purple?

[kramorph]

The only sub I know of is acetyl chloride or bromide etc.AA can be made from "vinegar", but it must be glacial acetic acid, ie pure dry acetic acid, and you would need high pressure and temp. equipment if you were to try this, as the reactants would obviosly be gases.AA is a clear,water like liquid that absorbs water from the atmosphere.It has a burning vinegar like smell.The trouble with attemting to make it is tjhe reactants and products smell the same, and look similar, although I think glacial acetic acid is more viscous than AA. Im also quite sure that glacial acetic acid can be used to acetylate morphine, but I vaguely remember that a catalyst is needed and some fairly nasty conditions,ie nasty enough to destroy alot of the morphine! So yeah, dont bother even trying to do it with acetic acid.

[asaqwert]

Originally Posted by insanesteveo

bunsen burner, stand, erlenmeyer flask, stopper.
i reckon boiling off the water on a stove on med would do(electric of course), then transfer the flask to the stand and heat to over 800, of course with the rubber stopper on top.

any idea why that wouldnt work? i might take some vinegar from work and try doing a small amount.

another question, as i have never seen or read much about AA, what will it look like? thick liquuid? thin? clear? brown? purple?

no, this woudl not work

firstly, you will not be able to evenly heat the acetic acid to over 800 degrees using a glass/pyrex flask and a RUBBER stopper....do you not think the rubber stopper will have some problems at 800 degrees (and with acetic anhydride....)

you reckon boiling off water on a stove on medium would do? you plan on just somehow getting this "medium-setting" on your (electric nonetheless) range to get to 800 degrees? you realize that if it is stoppered then the remainder of the water which must seperate from teh acetic acid to form acetic anhydride must go somewhere, otherwise it will go back into the solution and form acetic acid all over again

basically, you can't make acetic anhydride yourself, at least not from acetic acid. it can be made, but you need other chemicals which are hard(er) to get

basically, you should pretty much succumb to the fact that without acetic anhydride, you are not making heroin. with pure glacial acetic acid, you MAY (and i STRONGLY disagree with this theory, i'm only saying may because in theory it COULD be possible for SOME to acetylate, but definetly not all, and definetly not twice) end up acetylating SOME of the morphine

about the harsh conditions, no, you won't be able to use DMAP and GAA to make 6-MAM 3-MAM or any other mam or diamorph...the DMAP is a catalyst for a reaction with acetic anhydride and must be over some substrate (i forget which, palladium maybe?). it is highly unlikely that it will actually work and what you will probably end up with is simply morphine, of which a large part was destroyed by you trying to boil it at over 200 degrees, and glacial acetic acid, all in one shot

not trying to rain on your parade fellas, but acetic acid is just not strong enough an acetylating agent to really do the job here, and the DMAP catalyst won't help either (can you even GET DMAP anyways? i bet its just as/more conrolled as AA....maybe not, i dont really know at all). you really need to find some college chem lab which you can "obtain" a small amount of AA from and then go ahead with things

[Zoops]

Originally Posted by Bad Monkey

I was just wondering/hoping wether there is a substitute 4 AA(actic anhydride).I did have a miniscule amount (about 4 or 5 CC's)which I failed to store propley.Ihade it in a 10 ml siringe,but it ate through black stopper leaving me with a empty seringe(spewen harecore) I've heard that it's possible to recreate a similar acid out easier to come by ingrediants, that will produce similar results.Is this true. BM

Acetyl chloride would be best used directly as an acetylating agent. What's "spewen harecore"