cold water extraction

[jay]

This is my first post as a new member and iam thirsty for knowledge.Any help is realy appreciated.

1-My experience is limited to cold water extraction but the caffiene is very limiting.Any suggestion on removing or reducing the caffiene is appreciated.The simpler the better.

2-Is codiene obtained by cold water extraction smokable or does it have to be changed to base.

3-I have read a lot on the internet about different chemical extractions/seperations using chloroform among other chemicals.It is immposible for me to obtain chloroform so i thought i can make it and from reading i understood that chloroform can be made by reaction of ethanol with chlorine through distilation can anybody provide more precise information on that.Or maybe somebody can give me an obtainable substitute.

[Va_va]

Hey im new also but i CWE very regularly - ive never extracted codeine with caffeine there is a way to eliminate the caffeine but you will need some chemicals ( chloroform i think ) ud be better leaving it in and having a higher dose to counteract it if possible

Codeine freebase is a smokable form of codeine and there is barely nothing if not none in a finished CWE for you to smoke ( dont try it just drink it ) but again it can be made from the product you are left with after a CWE using a method involving chems which is quite hard for someone with no chemistry experiance ( dont let that put you off researching and even trying in future years look at it as something you can achive later on )

And finally there are probably substitutes for chloroform along the lines of methylated spirits etc ( im not sure at all ) which can be obtained from diy stores etc you just have to look and research substitutes or what you are trying to extract is soluble in.

ONE MAIN POINT I WANT TO ADD FOR ANYONE DOING CWE'S IS - when you do your CWE make sure you re - extract the left over goop as i am convinced that has at least fifty percent of your final product in it wethar you are extracting paramol or co codamol, I used to extract once only and the buzz went after a few days of using, nowadays i extract twice and have a fantastic high every time althou codeine does get very boring, right as we speak im brewing some DHC up and im excited lol it never lets me down - so yeah extract twice it takes more time but you want a high, right ?

PEOPLE HAVE THERE OWN OPINIONS DO NOT CRITICISE MINE BUT BY ALL MEANS COMMENT AND LEARNING/TEACHING WILL BE MUCH MORE FUN

HAPPY DAYS - VA VA

[Nuke]

Caffeine can be extracted with a non-polar that its soluble in and for which codeine isnt, Chloroform or Dichloromethane could be used. Methylated spirits is polar and therefore will not work!

The cold water extraction leaves you with codeine phosphate, caffeine and small amount of the APAP or ASA. Making a freebase isnt hard and dosent require any chemistry knowledge, all you have to do is add baking soda untill effervesence (Bubbling) slows, then evaporate.

Chloroform can be made by the chlorination of ethanol but it can also be made very easily with sodium hypochlorite (Household Bleach) and Dimethyl Ketone (Acetone), both of which you could obtain easilly from many many places. If youre interested in making some I'll leave a synth, allthough I wouldnt recommend keeping it around because this certain chloroform isnt vary stable and phosgene (killer gas) could be a problem. If you have methanol or ethanol you could stabilize it than store it.

Va Va what do you mean by brewing up DHC, DHC as in dihydrocodine?

[jay]

Thanks for the info nuke,i was waiting specificaly for your reply because from reading your previous threads you seem to be very knowlegeable.
I realy thought obtaining codiene fee base was more complicated ,maybe the process i read about wich ivolved both sodium carbonate and chloroform washing was meant for both converting to free base and purifiction.
Is there a certain PH i have to reach or specific portions of bicarbonate/codeine to use.

Iam very interersted in chloroform synthesis and would appreciate your help.

Also, is codiene extraction possible with efferevescent tablets.

Va-va i will try two extractions, but do you repeat the same process with the left over residue or do you just wash it with ice water.

[Nuke]

Well if your using apap (tylenol) you should use sodium carbonate to basify and if your using aspirin containing tablets you should use sodium hydroxide, the reason is because sodium hydroxide supposedly reacts with the Apap. Rhodium has a good method for chloroform from aceton and bleaching powder but this sites procedure is much simpler. http://www.sci-spot.com/Chemistry/chloroform.htm. ph should be around 12 or 13 but its not essential that its perfect, at that ph the codeine base should precipitate out of the solution and you can filter it. And no do not use alka seltzer to basify! use red devil lye if you have pills with aspirin or use sodium carbonate for tylenol. Also, yes you should extract it atleast a couple of times with water, morre preferable 3 or 4 times. plus the initial extraction should be done with hot water not cold, extract with hot water to get as much codeine as possible in the solution and then put it in the freezer until it becomes just above freezing 2 or 3 degrees C than filter to get most of the tylenol or aspirin out. Also dont use coffee filters, use a regular funnel that you'd find in your kitchen with cotton stuck in the spout really tightly, then siphon off the cold liquid leaving the tylenol/aspirin layer at the bottom untouched. then filter that liquid through the filtering funnel. once you have that clear liquid add the base to it and it should precipitate out.

[doctor diesel]

Hi, I'm a keen newbie who's been scanning posts but keeping quiet so far . Could I ask Nuke to expand on "all you have to do is add baking soda untill effervesence (Bubbling) slows, then evaporate"? Are we talking about adding the BS to the two-times extracted leftover goop, and if so, do we dilute the goop any before adding, and how much do we add (per ml of goop, roughly)? Also, I don't want to be a pain, but as my missus needs a codeine high or three (who is in constant pain from fibromyalgia, and docs just won't give her anything decent for it) so I'm dependent on guys like you, if we then evaporate the goop, are we not then left with a shitload of baking soda to smoke?

Hungry for knowledge!!


Doctor Diesel

[Va_va]

Okay firstly on the subject of methylated spirits i wrote after ' im not sure at all' so thank you for verifying that nuke - also i did not realize that was the way to make freebase i have tried that method before i will obviously need to look and learn from you here. And yes i was meaing dihydrocodeine by DHC. Codeine is not worth extracting these days althou i am curious about freebase codeine.

Secondly when i say extract twice i mean scrape the goop off your filter, stir with water, refridgerate and filter for the second time - THIS IS SOOOOOO IMPORTANT YOU ARE WASTING YOUR MONEY OTHER WISE. THIS REFERS TO A COLD WATER EXTRACTION.

I am also curios about whethar sodium carbonate will dissolve in small amounts into your final product as it seems to have a taste of that in the final product and yes i remove one hundread percent of the secondary substance and there is no solid in the finished product AT ALL that is also the same with dihydrocodeine extractions, also do i have to use chloroform if we have no caffeine in the codeine. I have all those chemicals you mentioned so i will be looking into this, nice one.

Happy days all - Vava

Infact just read that link and the details you posted and they look fairly straight forward

[Nuke]

First diesel do not add your base to the goo add it to the solution with the codeine in it, it would be best if you had some pH papers. I've never used sodium bicarbonate before but Ive heard it could be used, to be safe I would try to find some sodium carbonte. but that being said, if your GF has severe fibromyalgia smoking codeine is not the answer, smoking codeine is gay quite honestly and a waste to boot, dont bother trying to get a free base just drink the liquid with some kool aid mix in it, its much better. Extracting codeine as a freebase is only really usefull if you intend on playing with it, like morphine synthesis. VaVa pouring your liquid and pill goo all in the filter is a big no-no. You want to only decant the mix then only pour the decanted liquid into the filter, all I mean by decanting is removing the liquid leaving the pill layer untounced, you could use a syphoning tube or large syringe . once you mix the pills in water let it sit still for a half an hour and then syphon off only the liquid. heres a shitty graphic of what im talking about. In the picture I also have a different type of filter that would be alot better for you, with cotton shoved tight in the spout and sand above the cotton to prevent any clogging of the filter. http://storage.msn.com/s1pZ8pl_R1n1z...26207108815753

[Va_va]

Okay firstly again lol i did not mean put the already extracted water back through your 'goop' that makes no sense im surprised you even thought i meant that !

Obviously i mean use new water for extracting the 'goop' again, and sodium carbonate is found at many supermarkets etc ( co-op for one ) sold as baking powder

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW i just re-read what you wrote and i think that is ridiculous, maybe not if you are using cotton wool as a filter but hey, you didnt even ask what i was filtering with !

I use jeans of a good quality that lets no solid through ( amazingly ) youl find many clandestine chemists do. So therefore scraping of the 'goop' is straight forward and you loose about five percent if that ! It must be very trickey scraping off or retriving the 'goop' you have left on cotton wool but as you said you dont add the goop, which to me seems like you are creating extra work for yourself

Happy days - Vava

[doctor diesel]

Thanks Nuke. Two questions: firstly, Va Va, where do mere mortals like me purchase the necessary processing chemicals in the UK. Secondly, to both of you: is there an easy test for checking the paracetamol (APAP) content of the results of your CWE - just to be sure you're not killing yourself?

THX

Diesel

[Va_va]

You should just compare - get a glass with an equivalent amount of water and add a finger scoop of 'goop' off your filter into the glass

You will clearly be able to tell the diffrence because in seconds the goop you purposley added will have settled on the bottom, also YOU CAN JUST TELL !
You should be able to look through your glass with Codeine in it and see no solid whatsoever just a tint to the water - the only way i can describe it is a crystaly tint.

There are more advanced ways

Nuke will be your best bet at getting resources for chems including that amazing link he included for making chloroform, all i can say is search your bandq high and low ive seen everything there and a little bit more

Make sure you are using a good quality filter - Nuke's idea of cotton wool balls is a great one althou i do not know how he would get the 'goop' back of to re-extract with more clean water. You'd need to ask - i would strongly advise against jeans as the ones i use are specific ones ( lee jeans to be exact ), other ones i have tried have had dye come out etc so unless you have an old pair of lee jeans about use cotton wool and follow his extraction.

Reading over what he said this morning about freebase it has put me off - as codeine itself is not a very exciting drug to use and i wouldnt like to be addicted to smoking freebase codeine on foil for the rest of my life, it would look quiet sad !
Look into further recipes on how you can change your very simply CWE codeine into something more exciting like morphine

[doctor diesel]

We use codeine for the missus because it's the only obtainable pain killer that actually works for her, and we can't get anything else other than tramadol and a limited amount of buprenorphine. The bupe is okay for occasional intransigent pain provided she takes at least three times the prescribed dose, while the Tramadol does nothing unless she takes 200mg at one hit together with 100mg codeine. On it's own it's crap.

But there's no pain she suffers that doesn't respond to a big belt of codeine - 200mg at one hit will solve any problem for up to three hours. Trouble is the doc doesn't endorse that kind of thing, so we can't get enough codeine, so the solution has to be CWE. I'm going to give it a go.

Diesel

[Nuke]

Look VaVa youre going about it in completely the wrong direction, honestly almost everything you recommend doing is bunkum. There is no need to put the pill matter and all into the filter, its called decantation! Pouring pill matter/liquid all in at once increases the amount of apap that gets into your solution. leaving it filter at ambient temperature with goo in the filter will completely ruin the whole schematic of the "Cold" water extraction because the "GOO" will glog the filter and hence will take eons longer to filter. You said that you wonder how you would get the goop back from the filter from using the cotton plug filter, the answer is "you dont, because it isnt there!" there should only be very little amounts of solid particles in the decanted liquid, I repeat do not put the solid pill matter in the filter. Using denim material for filtering is not nearly as effective as a cotton plug filter. Beleive me any "clandestine" chemist would use a cotton adsorbent plug filter long before they would ever resort to using denim.

Once you have the codeine extracted into solution and have it all filtered the codeine liquid should be as clear as water, if its milky or slightly cloudy that means that there is undissolved apap and that must mean the filter is a piece of shit . Before drinking it make sure the codeine liquid is clear as water. Diesel, if the solution is cloudy that means that there is excess paracetemol and it shoulkd be filtered untill completely clear. VaVa if the water has a tint that means there is excess paracetemol and it should be filtered agiain untill clear, I cant stress it enough dont drink cloudly liquid.

To be able to use the cold water extraction correctly you should :
-Extract the pill mass several times with water (no more than 3mL per 1 pill)

-once you have let the pills mixture settle to the bottom you should decant the Liquid.

-You should filter it untill it is clear, using a cotton plug in a funnel will work magic and will only take one filter.

[doctor diesel]

Can I ask you experts just what the practical difference is between codeine phosphate, codeine sulphate and dihydrocodeine tartrate? Is the DHC a longer-lasting opiate, and is it true that it's more powerful than codeine phos? If so, can you give me a clue as to its equivalency with codeine phos, and does it cold-water extract from APAP okay?

Sorry to ask so many questions. If I thought I was capable, I'd sure as hell make morphine from codeine, but having looked at the instructions, that's a definite no-no for me. Know your limits, I always say!

Dr Diesel

[Va_va]

Seeing as you genuinly need a painkiller use paramol containing dihydrocodeine, do the cold water extraction but be sure you have no secondary substance left - prolonged use causes bad problems its happened to me when i was terrible at the CWE

And to be honest nuke i didnt even read past 'your going about it in the wrong way' as i know im not i get fantastic results at extracting codeine and dihydrocodeine and i get amazing high's from both for what there worth.

Codeine doesnt do much these days as i need longer highs to stop me getting down but it does give a nice euphoric rush for twenty minutes or so, i had some extracted paramol last night and im still feeling it now - i feel divine

Diesel email me at Vavavoom290@aol.com and i will give you detailed instructions IN ENGLISH pmsl aswell as pictures of me doing the extraction so you can get your pain killers sooner rather than later - for what you have wrote in your last message i would reccomend extracting from paramol ( to get DHC ) as codeine is unlikley to do much for you - but remember all the troubles of addiction and think aboout them first ( i guess you already do, i dont want to be the one who got you in a mess )

BTW diesel im not an 'expert' ( althou its nice of you to say ) i just know how to extract from tablets very efficiently - Nuke seems to be the 'expert' here