Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone




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Thread: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

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    Occasionally Opiated Markov is an unknown quantity at this point Markov's Avatar
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    Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    So... this is not another "What is the difference?" thread as I've seen a few times before - but rather one of the reasons I registered to post rather than continuing to lurk as I've been doing for some time, is to share the experience of SWIM regarding these two drugs, since it's somewhat (radically) different than just about everything I've read here so far. That said - I'll preface my first real post by saying: I love you folks. I've gotten so much from reading this board it defies quantification. Also, if I accidentally use "I" instead of SWIM, it's just an abbreviation (SWIM). I've personally never used an opiate in my life, of course.

    By way of background, SWIM has extensive experience with chronic pain, and its treatment, including in more-or-less chronologic order: hydrocodone, percocet, plain oxycodone/oxyIR, oxycontin (up to 40 TID/ 60 BID doc Rx'd, 120mg at a time self-Rx'd), dilaudid (4mg by mouth, 2-4 IV in hospital, recently up to 16-20mg IV at home), duragesic/fentanyl patch (50mcg/hr worn, eaten, smoked, etc), MS Contin (yuck), and others I'm sure SWIM forgot to mention. Most notably, though, in the last two or three months SWIM has been prescribed the elusive and reclusive beast: OPANA . The important distinction here is that it's opana IR, not ER. I think therein lies the key. SWIM's Rx is for 10mg three times a day - either 84 5mg pills (blue) per 2 weeks, or 42 10mg pills (pink) per 2 weeks.

    They are water-soluble. The more water you use, the easier it is to draw up. With not enough water it can seem like it's gooping, but it's not. With enough water (SWIM uses a 3ml syringe with an 18-gauge needle to draw it up, then a 25 or 27 gauge needle to ... um ... you know). IV, it is spectacularly euphoric according to SWIM. Lasts longer than D. 10 or 15mg IV is superduperpooperscooper good for someone who comparably will use 16 or 20 of D by the same route. SWIM wouldn't waste it orally. Hasn't really experimented with it nasally. You can cold-cook it. Piece of cake. Works great . If you cold-cook it, you can then hot-cook the rinse and it still works again. Save some cottons (not for very long of course) and then use them to make a solution you can take per poop chute. Then sterility / cotton fever is not an issue. Or, if you just decide to use the out door as the route of administration in the first place, works great.

    Why do I write this book of a post? Well, first of all it's been burning a hole in SWIM's pocket, so to speak. They've been wanting to do so for a while, so it feels good to get it off their chest. Second... they wanted to make sure that - to anyone who is already so inclined, that they have the appropriate understanding of the differences between the ER (SWIM has never seen it) and the IR (two thumbs up) versions. Also, a dose-comparison to D is given for reference purposes (though as with anything, START SMALL!!!!).

    Most of all though, SWIM felt bad that their friend Opana was being so maligned by so many. They decided they needed to stand up for the reputation of the otherwise trash-talked Opana. Since SWIM can't type, I decided to be their vector. As I said earlier, the closest I've come to an opiate is watching Opie season on Deadliest Catch on the Discovery Channel.

    May you all have a wonderful opiated day. You all rock.

  2. #2
    Occasionally Opiated LostSouL is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Well SWIM has the Opana ER and they suck. You can't really do anything with them. You can eat about 10 and catch a very light buzz. However, watch out for the W/D when doing this cuz it is BAD. Glad the IR's are better.

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    Opiophile Woowoo is fresh on the scene. Woowoo is fresh on the scene. Woowoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Sounds like great fun. I've tried every combination of oxy- and hdyro- and -codone and -morphone except for this one. Since I don't know beans about chemistry I think of it like a word game. You got suffixes and prefixes, so in my mind I have this grid:

    Code:
                  -CODONE                     -MORPHONE
    ----------+---------------------------+-----------------
    OXY-      |   great fun               |   ???
    ----------+---------------------------+-----------------
    HYDRO-    |   strictly for squares    |   orgasmic
    ----------+---------------------------+-----------------
    I'm hoping to fill in that ??? soon. Could it be better than hydromorph? Wooo WOOOOO!!!
    Hooked on Phonics™

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    Occasionally Opiated Markov is an unknown quantity at this point Markov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    ???= groove-a-liscious
    ???= euphor-a-delic

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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    damn i (yes I, not my friend swim) wish i could get a hold of either of these lovely opiates but unfortunatly havent come across hydroM in years, and never came across oxyM. it would be nice tho.

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    Occasionally Opiated Markov is an unknown quantity at this point Markov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Yeah, I (personally) get bathed, so to speak (legally) in hydromorphone somewhat regularly because of my chronic kidney stones. Following and preceding spine surgery I also was prescribed all of the 'good' slow-release drugs in the book. I actually have some dilaudid in a bottle on my dresser right now On the down side... I'm preparing to move from the west coast to a southeastern state. I have no idea what the prescribing practices are like down there. I can't imagine they're the same as they are out here, but hopefully they're not in the dark ages. If someone sends me home from the hospital with a 4mm kidney stone and a bottle of ultram, I'm on the next flight back. I do recognize, however, that the whole opana thing might just end up being a good "remember when..." story. We'll see. On the other hand, I might get lucky, SWIM might get continuity of care and a continuing Rx, and even better, the new job's insurance might even cover it better, instead of a buck a pill. Though - a buck a pill (5mg; 10mg is $2 a pill) is still way less than the off-the-shelf price at the pharmacy. Who the heck knows what the street price would be - I'm guessing way high. Wish SWIM & me luck!

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    OpioNoMo HeidiW is an unknown quantity at this point HeidiW's Avatar
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    Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    I had me one of them yellow Opana's this past fall and was NOT impressed.
    Maybe because I probably ruined the motherfucker by crushing it up and trying to bang it.
    Ya think??
    Anyway, I'll take my hydromorph, for the time being.....


    (Can anyone tell this evening's nightly methadone dose has me way the fuck on out there....
    This is a gift, as I haven't gotten off on 'done in like 3 or 4 years, WOOOOOOOHAAAAAAA):cool:

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    Occasionally Opiated Markov is an unknown quantity at this point Markov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Hey Heidi! I noticed a few times the spectacularly awful experience you had trading something else for the opana. I personally feel for you on that one. I've made that mistake before with other 'commodities'. In your case, however, I think the problem is definitely that you got yerself an Opana "ER", and not an "IR". Lots has been said about the extended-release version, and how the whole matrix that holds it together and makes it extended-release also renders it useless for breaking down and bangin'. SWIM never had any luck getting MS Contin to do the same... read everything, tried every technique (crisping, etc) and got nowhere. Sounds like the Opana ER is even harder in that respect. BUT... don't give up on the beast entirely. If you come across the IR version (blue=5mg, orange=10mg) it's a whooooole different ballgame. They're even cold-cookable, that's how simple it is. I PROMISE. Well, SWIM promises, anyway. I don't know shit 'bout shit, ya dig.

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    OpioNoMo HeidiW is an unknown quantity at this point HeidiW's Avatar
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    Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Yeah Markov, I believe it was an Opana ER. I wish I could remember the identifying #'s and letters on the pill. I know it was yellow and if I'm remembering correctly, it was weird shaped, like an octagon or something. After I crushed it and put the water to it in the spoon, I swear it turned into a clear litlle ball of plastic! And this was before I tried putting fire to it to cook off the anti-abuse bullshit in it. It really turned into a big pile of shit after that. I was so mad I just threw spoon at the wall.

    In all honesty, I'd try it again.

    I'd love to get ahold of the IR's. Them fuckers would have to buzz the fuck out of ya.
    Is oxymorphone stronger than fentanyl??

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    Occasionally Opiated Markov is an unknown quantity at this point Markov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    First of all... you rock! I may sound like a dork... but I feel like I'm having a conversation with a celebrity I always enjoy reading your posts all over this board, and have for some time.

    Okay... that out of the way - regarding your question: I would definitely not waste my time (or money, or 'commodities') messing around with the ER version if you come across it again. I don't think it's worth the effort to try and get around the many problems associated with adding water to that particular pill.

    On the other hand... the IR version. Now that's a whole 'nother story. Comparison to fentanyl? Hard to say. SWIM smoked a whole bunch of fentanyl back when he was on the 50mcg patches for about six months. 'Twas pretty yummy. But at that point the only IV drugs SWIM had done were those administered in the hospital setting... primarily dilaudid (Oh - how SWIM wishes he still had that tolerance: 2mg = floaty feeling).

    Fast forward to the present. Dilaudid & oxymorphone pretty much alternate regularly, so the comparison is fresh in the head. How can you not love the dillies? Of course they're great. But - given the choice? You betcha, SWIM would choose oxymorphone hands down. Without hesitation. Now if that's not saying something, I don't know what is. The only IV fentanyl SWIM has done has been in combo with versed for sedation, so of course there's no real memory of it. But in comparison to IV dilly, let's try and explain. Opana has the euphoria of an early oxycodone experience (like back when two percocets used to make you all energetic and happy and warm and fuzzy), along with the rush of the whooooosh of Capitain D flooding across your chest, making your torso feel heavy and happy, and the rainforest drizzle of endorphins - dew dripping down leaves sparkling in the sunshine of your brain. And it lasts longer than a shot of D. In a nutshell: 's-aight. (Or so says SWIM, that is).

    So if the raft got punctured as you're approaching the desert island, and you have a lifetime supply of D or Opana (and your lifetime of rigs has already washed up on shore), and your package of D and your package of Opana are headed irretrievably for the ocean floor... which would swIm reach for? Yeap, you got it. Oh - and swim is not, not, not one of those people who doesn't appreciate the blissful virtues of 'laudid. He does. He really does.
    Last edited by Markov; 06-06-2007 at 11:53 PM. Reason: Edited 'cause I keep mixing up my 'morphones.

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    OpioNoMo HeidiW is an unknown quantity at this point HeidiW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Damn Markov, you consider me a celebrity? That made my day. Shit, I'm just an junky who's getting old.
    I'm gonna try and get my Dr. to switch me to oxymorphone after all this shit with me getting dismmissed by my original pain contract PCP dies down. I've only been to the new doc. once, can't push the envelope too far, you know?

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    Occasionally Opiated LostSouL is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Quote Originally Posted by HeidiW View Post
    Damn Markov, you consider me a celebrity? That made my day. Shit, I'm just an junky who's getting old
    That makes you a celebrity. I hope I get to be a celebrity...right now, I am just a fat, broken down, old football player who keeps hoping some day the pain will stop and life will start again. Doubt it...but its fun to hope.


    P.S. You are a celebrity in my book. You seem like one of the most honest and genuine people around. These days that is a REAL celebrity.

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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Quote Originally Posted by Markov View Post
    But in comparison to IV dilly, let's try and explain. Opana has the euphoria of an early oxycodone experience (like back when two percocets used to make you all energetic and happy and warm and fuzzy), along with the rush of the whooooosh of Capitain D flooding across your chest, making your torso feel heavy and happy, and the rainforest drizzle of endorphins - dew dripping down leaves sparkling in the sunshine of your brain. And it lasts longer than a shot of D. In a nutshell: 's-aight. (Or so says SWIM, that is).
    Woah... Your description give me butterflys in the stomach.... Pure Bliss....
    I think i'll have to start searching for them...

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    Opiophorum Member kazman32 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    I got some 10 mg opana's chewd 6 snorted 2 acually felt pretty ok...better than the ms contin's I had s few days before got my head busted on them cause I needed a front on them..sucked bad..like 6 30mg and disn't get shit but a stomach ache....

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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Quote Originally Posted by HeidiW View Post
    Damn Markov, you consider me a celebrity? That made my day. Shit, I'm just an junky who's getting old.
    I'm gonna try and get my Dr. to switch me to oxymorphone after all this shit with me getting dismmissed by my original pain contract PCP dies down. I've only been to the new doc. once, can't push the envelope too far, you know?
    ???? Heidi don't be so hard on yourself.
    Many a time I've looked at your pic. Those eyes of yours.... they have this sexy look. They really do.

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    Occasionally Opiated LostSouL is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Quote Originally Posted by kazman32 View Post
    I got some 10 mg opana's chewd 6 snorted 2 acually felt pretty ok...better than the ms contin's I had s few days before got my head busted on them cause I needed a front on them..sucked bad..like 6 30mg and disn't get shit but a stomach ache....

    Kaz..

    We those Opana ER or IR?

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    Occasionally Opiated Markov is an unknown quantity at this point Markov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    SWIM just moved across the country and has his new appt. with a pain mgt doctor in a couple of weeks. The decision is whether to continue with the opana or not. As cool as it is... it's awful 'spensive, even with insurance. With insurance, it's a buck a pill. Compared to the 'street' market, that's obviously not bad at all, but compared to a $20 copay for 180 dillies... well the math speaks for itself.

    Regarding Kazman32's post... SWIM's eaten a bunch at once and didn't really feel much. He does have a significant tolerance, but still. Snorted a couple just out of curiosity... but SWIM doesn't dig high-volume insufflation, and the volume-to-drug ratio is just too high. At least dillies are small. It's possible to catch a nice buzz from an equivalent amount of oxycodone, so you'd think the same amount of oxymorphone would be even mo' better. But who knows. 10mg IV is still much better than 10mg of dilaudid IV ISHO. I guess it's an oral-availability thing. As we all know, oral dilaudid is an entirely different phenomenon than IV dilaudid, of course.

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    New Opiophile MattR is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    SWIM is perscribed opanna 5mg IR's. SWIM usually snorts them, but he says that he can hardly get the absorbsion to be that good. SWIM takes them for breakthrough pain, and never thought of IV' with any pill.

    IF he were to do it how should he go about it and does anyone know if its better than snorting them. A complete breakdown of the pro's and cons and how to do it.


    thanks everyone.

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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Quote Originally Posted by MattR View Post
    SWIM is perscribed opanna 5mg IR's. SWIM usually snorts them, but he says that he can hardly get the absorbsion to be that good. SWIM takes them for breakthrough pain, and never thought of IV' with any pill.

    IF he were to do it how should he go about it and does anyone know if its better than snorting them. A complete breakdown of the pro's and cons and how to do it.


    thanks everyone.
    Don't go down that road. Get some better pills that have a good oral or nasal bio-avail. Same away from IV'ing. Plus I don't think anyone here is going to walk you through how to do it.


    ..... found that when it got *really* bad, I'd cop, and fuck all that detoxing, whether I'm eating carrots and brown rice, or vodka and cough drops, I've learned only one sure thing about detoxing:
    There Ain't No Free Lunch!.......Originally posted by Duckfeet

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    Default Re: Hydromorphone vs. Oxymorphone

    Quote Originally Posted by MattR View Post
    SWIM is perscribed opanna 5mg IR's. SWIM usually snorts them, but he says that he can hardly get the absorbsion to be that good. SWIM takes them for breakthrough pain, and never thought of IV' with any pill.

    IF he were to do it how should he go about it and does anyone know if its better than snorting them. A complete breakdown of the pro's and cons and how to do it.


    thanks everyone.
    define "better" ... you will be higher at first, but that will last a short while, your body will adjust to the difference, and your tolerance will soar. your WDs will also be much much worse.

    oh and you will most likely become hooked to the needle itself, which is a very sick thing to experience. your chances of getting hep c, aids, and other blood borne infections will increase exponentially.

    and your arm will shortly look like swiss cheese.

    if that's better, then yes, its fucking wonderful.
    fuck happy.

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