Easy synthesis of an opiate stronger than Heroin

[Dolophine]

Well, since people have been talking about turning Morphine into Heroin with acetic anhydride I thought I would post about something similar that may interest the chemically inclined. This post may be useless but it seemed interesting to me and it could possibly help out some people who want to experiment with a substance that is an opiate and more potent than Heroin.

I was searching Wikipedia looking at different opiates and I came upon this one called Dipropanoylmorphine. Now you are probably asking yourself, "What the fuck is that?" and I will tell you what it is. This is from Wikipedia and not in my words but it explains what this substance is.

is the 3,6-dipropanoyl ester of morphine, CAS number 10589-79-4. It was developed in the 1970s as an analgesic. [1] It is rarely used in some countries for the relief of strong pain such as that caused by terminal cancer, as an alternative to diamorphine (heroin).

So.....we have this substance that is more potent than Morphine, and is an alternative to Diamorphine and more potent than that also. It is rarely used and supposedly has effects similar to or better than Diamorphine (Heroin).

So, when you create Heroin out of Morphine you have to get your hands on Acetic Anhydride, this is not really easy, as it's a watched chemical because it's used to make Heroin out of Morphine. So it's not really realistic to order some online, as you will probably end up with DEA agents breaking down your door.

So to make this opiate that is MORE POTENT THAN HEROIN! You need to do the same thing as what you do to make Heroin out of Morphine. Now you will probably say, well how the fuck can I do that if acetic anhydride is a restricted chemical, and my answer to you is...... YOU DON'T NEED A RESTRICTED CHEMICAL TO MAKE THIS OPIATE FROM MORPHINE! You need a chemical that ISN'T WATCHED. The name of this lovely chemical is PROPANOIC ANHYDRIDE.

So, get yourself some of this propanoic anhydride and get your Morphine and react the Morphine with the propanoic anhydride and BOOM SHAKALAKA! You have DIPROPANOYLMORPHINE.

So now you have a relatively easy way to make a drug that is said to be stronger than Morphine and Heroin.

I hope you enjoyed my writing and that this opens some doors for some people. I'm not telling you to go out and do this. I have not tried the product of this synthesis and I doubt many other people have. This is a rare drug and I don't know what effects it has on liver or kidneys or anything but from the literature I read, it's supposedly safe for human use and stronger than Heroin. And the potential for a better buzz is there. Even if the buzz doesn't beat Heroin, i'm sure it will beat a Morphine buzz. This DIPROPANOYLMORPHINE is also highly lipophilic, even more than Heroin.

Disclaimer: I am not responsible for any deaths or injuries/illnesses caused by someone making this drug. I am simply writing this to broaden peoples knowledge on other opiates and for my own personal amusement. I don't want you to try this, and I'm not responsible if you do try this. Nor is this website, Opiophile.org. If you do it, you are responsible. I do not approve of it and I don't think it's a good idea to make this drug. Be smart and don't do anything stupid. This is strictly for the chemically inclined who know their shit and who won't blow themselves up. I am not RESPONSIBLE for YOU or your friends dying or getting hurt so don't fucking blame me or opiophile.org. Peace

[AWOL]

who won't blow themselves up. I am not RESPONSIBLE for YOU or your friends dying or getting hurt so don't fucking blame me or opiophile.org. Peace

Damnit ..... what if they aren't my friend?

[chemboy7]

So, get yourself some of this propanoic anhydride and get your Morphine and react the Morphine with the propanoic anhydride and BOOM SHAKALAKA! You have DIPROPANOYLMORPHINE.

Hahaha, it's gonna be alittle more involved than that. "Boom Shakalaka", man what a step.

[AWOL]

Hahaha, it's gonna be alittle more involved than that. "Boom Shakalaka", man what a step.

Man, I was lookin forward to that part too. One of the few things I am good at, is the boom shakalaka.

[robojunkie]

I don't know specifically about propionic anhydride, but propionyl chloride is definitely on the list 1 thing...I believe it is used in a relatively new LSD conversion. Would imagine the anhydride probably is too, but not sure, too fucking miserable to check...sorry. Def would be more lipophilic...

[Dolophine]

From what I read it's widely used as a reagent and not on any list but if you find out info stating otherwise correct me.

And it's really not that hard to make this. It's the same process as making Heroin out of acetic anhydride and Morphine. So how hard could it be for someone with knowledge of chemistry?

I checked the DEA website and the Diversion website for the DEA or something similar I forget the name. And It's not listed as a chemical of concern or a controlled chemical.

[alowishus]

I checked the DEA website and the Diversion website for the DEA or something similar I forget the name. And It's not listed as a chemical of concern or a controlled chemical.

That's what you think, now they have your computer under their control, rootkit and all.

[JonnyM]

Well, since people have been talking about turning Morphine into Heroin with acetic anhydride I thought I would post about something similar that may interest the chemically inclined. This post may be useless but it seemed interesting to me and it could possibly help out some people who want to experiment with a substance that is an opiate and more potent than Heroin.

I was searching Wikipedia looking at different opiates and I came upon this one called Dipropanoylmorphine. Now you are probably asking yourself, "What the fuck is that?" and I will tell you what it is. This is from Wikipedia and not in my words but it explains what this substance is.

is the 3,6-dipropanoyl ester of morphine, CAS number 10589-79-4. It was developed in the 1970s as an analgesic. [1] It is rarely used in some countries for the relief of strong pain such as that caused by terminal cancer, as an alternative to diamorphine (heroin).

So.....we have this substance that is more potent than Morphine, and is an alternative to Diamorphine and more potent than that also. It is rarely used and supposedly has effects similar to or better than Diamorphine (Heroin).

So, when you create Heroin out of Morphine you have to get your hands on Acetic Anhydride, this is not really easy, as it's a watched chemical because it's used to make Heroin out of Morphine. So it's not really realistic to order some online, as you will probably end up with DEA agents breaking down your door.

So to make this opiate that is MORE POTENT THAN HEROIN! You need to do the same thing as what you do to make Heroin out of Morphine. Now you will probably say, well how the fuck can I do that if acetic anhydride is a restricted chemical, and my answer to you is...... YOU DON'T NEED A RESTRICTED CHEMICAL TO MAKE THIS OPIATE FROM MORPHINE! You need a chemical that ISN'T WATCHED. The name of this lovely chemical is PROPANOIC ANHYDRIDE.

So, get yourself some of this propanoic anhydride and get your Morphine and react the Morphine with the propanoic anhydride and BOOM SHAKALAKA! You have DIPROPANOYLMORPHINE.

So now you have a relatively easy way to make a drug that is said to be stronger than Morphine and Heroin.

I hope you enjoyed my writing and that this opens some doors for some people. I'm not telling you to go out and do this. I have not tried the product of this synthesis and I doubt many other people have. This is a rare drug and I don't know what effects it has on liver or kidneys or anything but from the literature I read, it's supposedly safe for human use and stronger than Heroin. And the potential for a better buzz is there. Even if the buzz doesn't beat Heroin, i'm sure it will beat a Morphine buzz. This DIPROPANOYLMORPHINE is also highly lipophilic, even more than Heroin.

Disclaimer: I am not responsible for any deaths or injuries/illnesses caused by someone making this drug. I am simply writing this to broaden peoples knowledge on other opiates and for my own personal amusement. I don't want you to try this, and I'm not responsible if you do try this. Nor is this website, Opiophile.org. If you do it, you are responsible. I do not approve of it and I don't think it's a good idea to make this drug. Be smart and don't do anything stupid. This is strictly for the chemically inclined who know their shit and who won't blow themselves up. I am not RESPONSIBLE for YOU or your friends dying or getting hurt so don't fucking blame me or opiophile.org. Peace

I did everything as planned but i think i messed up on the Boom Shakalaka step and now my morphine is RUINED :[ haha

[Somanax]

damn skippy!!! i would double check my machine after an alternate site recommended by the DEA was used ,as a simple exercise in futility remember Homeland security doe'snt exist to protect our first ,second,fourth or fifth amendment rights !!!!

[Chemical_Boy]

Hahaha, it's gonna be alittle more involved than that. "Boom Shakalaka", man what a step.

Come on man, haven't you ever done the Boom Shakalaka reaction with some phosphorus and ephedrine?
You get a KAZAM!!

From what I read it's widely used as a reagent and not on any list but if you find out info stating otherwise correct me.

And it's really not that hard to make this. It's the same process as making Heroin out of acetic anhydride and Morphine. So how hard could it be for someone with knowledge of chemistry?

I checked the DEA website and the Diversion website for the DEA or something similar I forget the name. And It's not listed as a chemical of concern or a controlled chemical.

Fuckin with you bro! Do you know anything about the reaction process that you could share?

[robojunkie]

From what I read it's widely used as a reagent and not on any list but if you find out info stating otherwise correct me.

And it's really not that hard to make this. It's the same process as making Heroin out of acetic anhydride and Morphine. So how hard could it be for someone with knowledge of chemistry?

I checked the DEA website and the Diversion website for the DEA or something similar I forget the name. And It's not listed as a chemical of concern or a controlled chemical.

Search dea list one chemicals. Then there's "Watched Chemicals in the US"...official and unofficial list...

[SadAngelClownBoy]

Why the hell isn't diamorphine available in the US? It could be really helpful to those who are in CP. Who cares if they abuse it, the drugs that they give now are already. So why the hell won't they just give it.. Congress just needs to sspend one day in CP, they woud change thir minds REALLY quick.

[Paregoric Kid]

yeah propanoic anhydride (CH3CH2CO)2O isn't controlled or watched like acetic anhydride (CH3CO)2O, which is a related chemical. dipropanoylmorphine is easy to make. just hope this doesn't catch on or it will become watched.

[superman]

the rxn is the same as for heroin, the mechanism is the same.

But sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but propionic anhydride is just as tightly controlled as AA, possibly even more so because it's used to synthesize other drugs such as fentanyl

[robojunkie]

If you guys look under the "old" colloquial or whatever name for it, propionic anhydride, not propanoic anhydride (the last is the "right" name, just no one uses it) it'll come up as list 1. Not cause of H though. But that's small comfort as the so-called threshold amounts are much lower since it can be used in the lysergic acid to LSD "mixed anhydride" thing. In a lot of ways this may be even more suspicious...aa is used all the time in labs for all kinds of acetylation processes...whereas propionic anhydride/propionyl Cl is used for the LSD thing and, what, fentanyls, MPPP, etc? Not trying to bag on the idea as I'm sure it would be an interesting compound, may even hit quicker/harder than H, just wouldn't want to see anyone go ordering that thinking they're in the clear and then the knock (or no knock...).

And probably just as important as what's being ordered is who's ordering it and to where. Someone at, say, Pfizer, can pick up the phone and order whatever the fuck they want, fill out the list 1 form, and probably never hear from anyone...a creative and motivated junky ordering from home to 123 Fake St. or PO Box, well you know, hell any company can report any "suspicious" order, even if its not list one or even two, if they're so inclined...they have to track/record list 1's and have to report all those above the threshold. But anyone who thinks they can just order whatever below the required reporting threshold and be cool isn't counting on companies kissing dea's ass/covering own ass and reporting all or most of these or anything they may deem "suspicious".

Well, I guess that's unless you find Strike, Jr's company...that's absolutely a joke guys. Really not funny though, sucks for him...but good example of "conspiracy" bullshit and why companies cover their asses...by fucking yours!!! Good old american way...fuck them before they fuck you.

Edit: Holy shit superman, did it take me 17 minutes to write that? Didn't see your's when I started. Exactly.

[jacky]

yeah, and there is still the steps to isolate/purify your end product from other materials that will most likely be in the mix.

I think there is more potential out there in turning some legal mild organic opioid into a more potent mu agonist....like they have done with salvinorin a.
someday, it will reveal itself...maybe oxycontinuosly will come up with something.

it seems that there are scores of different structural familys involved in opioid analgesic agonist/antagonist activity....then there are the analogs of those compounds that potentially might be stronger/better/more desirable.
the precursor, and the new compound are both legal....and they will be that way for at least a window of a few years.
that is what would excite me.

if you find something like that though, dont post it here, contact me personally.
then once we have mountains of the material, and are bored with the compounds,
we will reveal them to the world.

seriously though, this morphine analog sounds interesting, thanks for the post.

[Paregoric Kid]

there is also dibutanoylmorphine which is stronger than morphine but it is slightly less stronger than 6-mam and dipropanoylmorphine.

[robojunkie]

Sadly though, at least for anything that follows the "morphine rule" and fentanyls as well, all the analogues are already illegal, hell even the ones not made yet...Fucking Designer drug/analogue or whatever its called act. But yeah I think anyone could (legally that is) fuck around with various not well known or even somewhat well known legal things like the mitragynine alkaloids, etc. But I'm not like likely to personally and like Jacky said if someone comes up with some pure agonist or mixed ag/antag that rocks and that's totally outside any structural analogue law, keep it on the DL and pleassssssssse don't write a book about it...we all know how that has impinged upon everyone's crafting hobbies...

haha and PM me too...haha

[HistoryofMadness]

my shaman friend told me never try the boomshakaloomlocklockloom without a witch doctor present and if that's the case the i'd never try the boomshakalaka without professional supervision

[Paregoric Kid]

there are many opioids that break the "morphine rule," it's more like a guideline than an abosulte rule.

[OxyContinuously]

I don't know specifically about propionic anhydride, but propionyl chloride is definitely on the list 1 thing...I believe it is used in a relatively new LSD conversion. Would imagine the anhydride probably is too, but not sure, too fucking miserable to check...sorry. Def would be more lipophilic...

Hey Robo, and whats up everyone else!! ;-)

Good point re; the propionyl chloride and the acid synth; I think you are 100 percent right. (This is a new approach, in the sense that a lot of the more "mainstream" synths, for LSD that we see today remain relatively unchanged (there are adjustments made along the way as technology improves and all that, don't get me wrong) from Hoffman's original blueprint (not word for word orig. synth notes) from the 30's; ie starting with ergotamine tartrate (or similar) and using POCl3 along the way after production of the lysergic acid hydrate. Good observation, Robo.
And in response to Dolophine's original post, that I *had* heard of this compound in the published literature regarding morphine and its many, many brothers and sisters, and it is quite potent as you mentioned. You *could* do this particular synth, to make this compound (as opposed to straight "H" itself) without the use of our old fav., acetic anhydride. It definitely is a standard organic synth, I am not suggesting you try this mind you, but it's "standard" in the sense that it's not one of the harder reactions/projects to work on. Of course it would be recommended *not* to try this w/ out an equipped lab, (even if one could carry out the proper reactions at home or in the garage, for example, wouldn't a lab be so much easier and safer?) cause there is more room for error when you improvise.
This compound, similar structurally to morphine, yet so much more potent. I am not familiar with the history of this though and was wondering, A) if there had been any tests/trials for it re pain management or something, or B) maybe it was too strong for human use and is just a "door prize" opiate. When I say too strong, I am thinking about "etorphine," the fabled compound so strong it puts elephants down, or a similar opiate in potency; one of the lesser studied analogs.
I am going to check this one out though, and see what i can research.

Good discussion.Talk to you all later

Oxy

[OxyContinuously]

yeah, and there is still the steps to isolate/purify your end product from other materials that will most likely be in the mix.

I think there is more potential out there in turning some legal mild organic opioid into a more potent mu agonist....like they have done with salvinorin a.
someday, it will reveal itself...maybe oxycontinuosly will come up with something.

it seems that there are scores of different structural familys involved in opioid analgesic agonist/antagonist activity....then there are the analogs of those compounds that potentially might be stronger/better/more desirable.
the precursor, and the new compound are both legal....and they will be that way for at least a window of a few years.
that is what would excite me.

if you find something like that though, dont post it here, contact me personally.
then once we have mountains of the material, and are bored with the compounds,
we will reveal them to the world.

seriously though, this morphine analog sounds interesting, thanks for the post.

Hey Jacky, thanks for the props :-)

But yeah, Salvinorin A is an interesting one ,like you said, and I know you did plenty of research on it also. It has a lot of potential, I must say, and quite a cool find as well. Hell, I could def. mess around a little bit (from a synth point of view) at work, see what i come up with, etc.
And yeah, there are countless unique structures for different, more "exotic," i guess you could say, kind of opiates. Interesting world, with a lot of un-tapped potential, I think. I mean there are so many routes one can go and a semmingly endless pool of possibilities. Somebody, somewhere is already working on this, you know?

later

Oxy

[Dolophine]

I didn't see PROPANOIC anhydride on any list of watched chemicals. I thought this was a really good idea and a pretty easy synthesis. The reaction is the same thing you do with AA and Morphine.

I don't see how this could be that difficult. It's definitely within reach of anyone with a good head on their shoulders.

As for the chemical needed "Propanoic anhydride" or whatever, I've read it's easy to acquire and used quite frequently in the chemical world and can be ordered online from chemical suppliers without any issues of it being a watched chemical.

Am i wrong about this? Because if i'm not, then this is a pretty good recipe, dont you think?

I don't see why it would be undesirable to do this synth if the product is supposed to be pretty good. It definitely is worth trying. If someone with real chemical knowledge could do it, this would be pretty cool. And who knows about the effects, it could be pretty nice, like Heroin or better or maybe a bit better than morphine in the very least.

There is a chance it could suck but it's worth a try. And it's pretty straightforward I think most of the people in this thread could figure it out.

Who knows, it might be an amazing drug and worthwhile. It's a pretty rare synth, I had never heard of it until yesterday.

The recipe isnt really on here but if you look up how to make heroin with AA it's identical to that. You just use Propanoic anhydride instead.

I got this list from erowid of watched chemicals I just copied all the ones that start with P because the other ones are irrelevant. So here is the list, although I don't know how accurate it is. I'm not really sure because, one site I found lists it as a LIST 1 chemical which is watched as a precursor. But the other ones don't list it as a watched chemical.

Phenyl-2-Propanone
Phenylacetic Acid
Phenylacetone
Phenyl Magensium Bromide
Phenylpropanolamine
Phosphorus Oxychloride
Piperidine
Piperonyl & related compounds
Potassium Cyanide
Procaine

[robojunkie]

Hey D/OO,

I definitely agree that the process would essentially be identical to the classic, and I would most assuredly volunteer for any human trials (ingesting the dipropionylmorphine, not making it)...but I gotta reiterate the whole "list" thing...and the word/name. It is really called "propanoic..." like you said but everyone in the business says "propionic..." and I can absolutely guarantee if one ordered this as a single item/individual the heat would be far greater than dropping the propionic anhydride/Cl in the sink! The LSD thing is what got it specifically added, I believe, as I think it was some acid cook in the last 15 years or so that came up (or just adapted like all the HI/Red P shit, not an original underground thing, or the Birch reduction of benzyl alcohols either) with the mixed anhydride of lysergic/propionic anhydride as the activated intermediate for the dea (diethylamine not the other fuckers). Been around a lot longer like oxy said and the whole fent/MPPP thing to boot.

PK,

Yeah fentanyls break one, sometimes two, of the "morphine rules" and one could say maybe the demerol type "reverse esters" but what other pure mu agonists do? Even methadone fits cause of the conformation and shit. Did I miss something on that one, only referring to the "classic" opioids, not mitragynine or that type of thing...Just curious. Anyhow they're not really rules anyway more like structure/acitvity relationships and such.

Where are the biochem people with the fancy computer sims of enzymes and proteins with all the tertiary strutures and binding sites mapped out? That would be a lot of fun trying to theoretically design the purest of pure and most potent of potent opiods possible that would meet all the right real requirements...I know every single opiate receptor subtype has been identified with the absolute configurations, NMR studies, kinetics and all that shit...would love to have that computer program...

Edit: Oh yeah this for anyone, just cause something isn't "listed" doesn't mean dea doesn't know/care...if its something that can be used, especially if absolutely necessary, for any key step you can bet they let companies know that they should "voluntarily" report any "unusual" orders...I would be way too fucking paranoid for that anyway, hell when I have had to order list 1 (for "legitimate" research) I/we had to fill out a number of forms, state the purpose for it, what our general research plan was, etc. And since this was research, which means small scale, this was way below threshold amounts. Sometimes I think the whole list thing is just a trick to instill a false sense of security in peeps that know about/want to do a procedure that doesn't involve these (as they are almost all old, well known drug syntheses that use 'em) so they'll order and then they can come in and drag you off to a drug war cultural cleansing death camp/gulag...don't forget we're in america, the land of dirty tricks and the stab in the back...never trust the government, some shit they imply is ok by omission will bring the boys, some shit they state outright is "not allowed" (like jury nullification) is completely legal and everyone's right (I wouldn't convict any drug related anything unless violence, whatever if I was on a jury, I'll drag it out for days and weeks till they get 12 angry men on me). I'm rambling now.

[Dolophine]

I don't understand what you mean about the name and spelling. I know it's called Propanoic or Propionic anhydride right? So what is the problem with ordering it? I don't get why it would be a big deal? Wikipedia says it's unwatched and AA is watched. I'm so confuzzled.

What do you mean about dropping it into the sink. I'm so confused Robo. lol. My mind is slow, bare with me. :P

[robojunkie]

I don't understand what you mean about the name and spelling. I know it's called Propanoic or Propionic anhydride right? So what is the problem with ordering it? I don't get why it would be a big deal? Wikipedia says it's unwatched and AA is watched. I'm so confuzzled.

What do you mean about dropping it into the sink. I'm so confused Robo. lol. My mind is slow, bare with me. :P

I just meant on the search, where sites list these, and one in particular that I mentioned that goes a little more into what may really be watched, is that they all say propionic anhydride or propionyl chloride, so using the correct modern name might not turn it up. The correct modern name for acetic anhydride would be ethanoic anhydride. Probably wouldn't find that either.

What I'm saying is that I believe the "officially" listed, and I'm quite sure that at least propionyl chloride and probably the other are listed, (but maybe not, haven't checked "their" site list in awhile) is more of an idea that was started to block "easy" precursor purchases, but has evolved into a listing of the obvious ones, while not "officially" listing other useful things. These companies, any that sell list 1's for sure and most likely others as well, will undoubtedly have regular contact with dea and I personally think that they ask companies (who will certainly do their part in our great nation's war on drugs) to report anything they see as a suspicious order, whether based on chemical or delivery address or purchasing method, etc. I'm not trying to shoot the idea down, its actually interesting with the longer "oily" chains, I just wouldn't want to see anyone here order something that dea/chem suppliers know has very specific drug synthesis uses. In other words the list 1 thing is, IMO, a red herring.

Oh yeah, if you dropped a vat of that type of anhydride into the sink (I was kinda implying a full sink) it would hydrolyze and generate heat. A large bottle, like a liter or some shit, would start boiling and spattering the acid all around, etc. Like bringing the heat.

Oh, no prob with "the mind being slow" right now mine's shit. I seriously can't concentrate on anything other that opiophile posts and the wanting of, and not having any right now, heroin. I mean Heroin. With a capital H. Fucking ironic.

[Paregoric Kid]

here are some opioids I can think of that break the morphine/Becket-Casey rule: lefetamine (no quarternary center where it should be), fentanyls (no quarternary center where it should be), thiambutenes (no quarternary center where it should be, no CH2-CH2 group, no carbon spacer between the quaternary carbon and the tertiary nitrogen), and I think etonitazene, methadone, dimenoxadol, there are more if you want more examples I can find them for you.

I quote from fastnbulbous, a mod over at bluelight,
""The Morphine Rule:"
I] A phenyl or aromatic ring.
II] A quaternary carbon atom.
III] A CH2-CH2 group.
IV] The CH2-CH2 group must be attached to a tertiary nitrogen atom.

They are not thatstrict a set of rules really; fentanyl fails on rule II and dimethylthiambutene fails on rules II & III (and by inference rule IV) yet was added to the UK's Misuse of Drugs act because of abuse in Japan where it's used in vetinary medicine.
They're a pretty good set of guidelines, but aren't watertight."

"There are much more unusual opioids that don't so much break the above skeletal structural requirements, but bend them very severely, good examples being dimethylthiambutene and etonitazene. There are some compounds that you'd never guess were mu agonist opioids at an initial glance, but that on further examination do again 'sort of' conform to something like the above skeleton. On initial viewing, 2-(dimethylamino)ethyl O-ethylbenzilate (dimenoxadrol) looks like it should be an anticholinergic or antihistaminic drug due to similarities to other drugs of those two groups, but is in fact primarily a mu agonist as evidenced by it's status as a class A drug in the UK (if you look closely you start to see a lot of similarities with the opioid based on the structure of methadone)."
speaking of bluelight here are some threads over there that mention the thiambutene compounds:
Unusual Opiates: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=276949
Japanese vet. analgesics: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=217848
Safest methadone dose: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...=210236&page=2

[robojunkie]

Yeah I think they should probably just stop teaching that whole thing anyway as it just gets to be so much like "here's the rules, but now here's the exceptions"...especially the fentanyls. I would think the only generalization that can really apply is the whole conformational analysis thing. As is the the "piperidine" or equivalent conformation has to be out of plane with the aromatic. And the tertiary N with either methyl or phenethyl but no allyls or strained cycloalkyls. That's why I'd love to have that enzyme/protein simulator...Then one could really make sense out of all the exceptions that exist. Especially the fentanyls, like if you could see a 3-D image of the receptor protein maybe there is some ionic site that binds the ester and twists the piperidine so that the N-phenethyl is in the same or very close position as it would be in the others. I mean they all must fit the same binding site in such a way to be mu agonists so they must all meet some kind of conformational/electronic requirements. Damn, I bet the biochem people upstairs have this shit too, but I got no access, I think these suck up huge amounts of CPU/bandwidth or whatever if shared. Doubt they'd let me use it for fun...

[superman]

Wikipedia says it's unwatched and AA is watched. I'm so confuzzled.

wikipedia is wrong. don't believe everything that you read!

[AWOL]

my shaman friend told me never try the boomshakaloomlocklockloom without a witch doctor present and if that's the case the i'd never try the boomshakalaka without professional supervision

Pussy.