Withdrawal Trip Report> KRATOM

[Goldmund]

So...
exactly 24 hours after last burning kratom I decided>>
to not take any...
..i wanted to wait till I was sick because I have some sub strip i want to try....
well, I was able to wait about 2 hours...

24 hours after last burning i was fine, I actually woke up in a good energy mood...
...2 hours later I was tearing, yawning, and i had diarhea.

NOW I AM SURPRISED...

i just take 2 teaspoon of borneo red vein right when i wake up...
i have been doing this for a month...

WOW KRATOM WD is just as shitty as any widthdrawal...

so i guess, BE FUCKING CAREFUL...

[alpha]

...2 hours later I was tearing, yawning, and i had diarhea.

...WOW KRATOM WD is just as shitty as any widthdrawal...

Seriously? I've been through both (several times in fact), and kratom withdrawal, if you can even call it that, is not even the same magnitude - maybe 1/10th the 'suffering' . I think you may be psyching yourself out expecting it to be a lot worse than it really is - get up, move around, get some fresh air and think some positive thoughts.

Reading your post again, I wonder if it may be the sub that you're having the withdrawals from. When was the last time you dosed sub? That stuff stays in your system a LONG time, and I know for me, it took a good 8 months of stepping down to .25mg/day before I was able to jump, with the aid of kratom.

[Shanellie]

^^^^^This^^^^^^ totally. Sub is crazy strong. At one point at the end of my taper, I had myself tapered to a crumb, barely bigger than a grain of salt, per day- but if I didn't take it I'd get sick.

[Matt M]

But he only had a bit of sub he got the other day(his other thread asking if subs will get him high). Prolly like Alpha said and just psyching himself out or never had serious wd.

[Goldmund]

hehe, sorry guys i guess you are confused..
i have not taken any sub since san francisco 2009, when i had PWD from not waiting long enough, i have been SPOOKED,

today i tried to wait 24 hours since my last kratom dose before trying to get HIGH on the subs,

you see i have been takeing kratom for like one month....

i was hoping to get a nod off subs since my tolly is SO LOW...

but this WD felt bad...

so i drank kratom...

i will try tommarow to take the sub when i have WD symtoms

[radioactive_man]

Withdraws from kratom? Sorry GM, I'm confused.

[Goldmund]

yeah man, fucking widthdrawals from kratom! much worse than i anticipated....i was shooting a gram a day a year ago at this time

[Count Zero]

What did it take to get wds from kratom? Did you take it everyday? How much per day for how long? I do it a few times a week and I do not want to get fucking wds, I have no patience for that shit anymore. I got some rls last week from doing pods two days in a row and it really really really pissed me off.

[Goldmund]

kratom everyday for one and a half months............ONLY ONCE A DAY...........two teaspoons in hot water taken first thing in the morning........borneo redvein from mu.............2 hours after NOT DRINKING MY TEA i started totally feeling weird, then had diarhea and sweats........i drank more tea, it was gone

[Opiophelia]

Kratom aint no punk. You most definitely can get withdrawals from it. and they can be pretty damn intense depending on the kind and how much/how long you've been taking it. They're pretty mild if you're taking low dose plain leaf...but yeah... anything that works on your opiate receptors can cause dependence.

BUT... I still think Kratom is a good tool to get off other opioids because the w/d is USUALLY (not always) less intense and only lasts a few days due to the short half life.

[alpha]

Y'all should also be aware that kratom has it's own 'sort-of' sub type tool to help with WD's. It's called Stem & Vein. Essentially it is the ground up non-leaf matter from whole kratom leaves, the petiole or stem, and the veins within the leaves. Most kratom is a combo of leaf material and S&V, however some vendors sell material that is 'triple sifted' or 'sans stem & vein' which changes the alkaloidal makeup.

Turns out that similar to the way poppies produce agonist and antagonist alkaloids, Kratom produces agonist and antagonist alkaloids, and conveniently distributes the lions share of the agonists to the leaf matter, and the tigers share of the antagonist to the stem and veins.

Now here is the cool part. If you find your kratom isn't giving you the 'aroma' you are seeking, it's likely your receptors are flooded with agonist, so a couple of days taking antagonist (stem & vein) will keep you well while also lowering your tolerance, allowing you to go back to smaller amounts to gain the same effects.

Likewise, if you are trying to kick kratom completely, instead of going CT, get some S&V and spend a couple of days stepping down with it.

I use a capsule machine, and I find that 4-6 capsules (1/2gram each) of Stem & Vein can help overcome the minor WD symptoms from Kratom, while 10-15 capsules are more what i'm likely to use to reset the old tolly.

You can obtain your own S&V by buying crushed leaf instead of powder, and sifting and grinding yourself. Or, there are vendors out there that sell powdered S&V, and it's usually about 3/4 the price of standard powdered leaf.

I also shouldn't have immediately discounted your WD symptoms. I've purposely stuck to plain leaf kratom, but I've heard that WD's from the extracts (especially UEI and FST) can be comparable to real opiate withdrawal. Kind of like the difference from WDing from a 'perk-5' habit, and WDing from Opana or Fent.

[jimmyfingers]

I did about 20 grams every day for 2 months. I bought a kilo from bikhulk and was buying weekly from different vendors trying out different strains and extracts. I read a lot on the kratom forums about the most popular strains and who has the best whatever. I wanted to really experience the herb and see what it was all about. I just stopped one day. I decided that is was hard on the body and not much research (if any) out there to show long term effects on the body. 20 grams is a lot of powder. I don't get much of anything out of kratom except for a slight motivation. I would also get some pain relief from it and sometimes I would get that laziness where you don't mind sitting on the couch all day watching movies and eating.
It has a lot of psychoactive alkaloids in it and we know it is not good to overload your brain everyday with it. It probably has some unknown alkaloids as well. Finally, it can get pretty damn expensive especially buying enhanced, extracts, tinctures.

I did have w/d but they were different than heroin w/d. It wasn't even in the same 'family' as heroin w/d, Very minor physical w/d. However, my brain chemicals were all out of whack. I really craved kratom like a madman during this time. It was like I could feel my brain trying to get back to baseline. I was restless with anxiety and felt 'off' for 2 days. The third day I felt fine and back to normal. Your are going to feel off after taking any chemical and then suddenly stopping no matter how minor the chemical.

IMO it doesn't make a very good everyday type drug or drug in general recreational wise. However, very good drug for the toolbox.

I still have about 300g left and about 10 grams of gold reserve and don't have any cravings to use it.

I think I finally sourced some pure 7 hyroxy and 7 acetoxy, and Mitrgynine. All has been HPLC tested and close to pure.

[nick]

He's not the first guy to complain about wd associated with kratom use.If you search the forum there's some horror stories-too many to be purely the result of psychological wd.

No free lunches,guys.

[alpha]

This week I decided to taper off, just to see how it affected me at this point, which is 6 months of daily usage, 5-7G 1-2x day. Also, for the past two months I've been enhancing my experience with Plain Leaf/Extract blends, mostly on weekends, but, well, you know how that goes.

On Monday I took 7G Stem & Vein, after a weekend of 2x "Super Enhanced Bali" each day. That night I had a bit of trouble falling asleep, restless, but otherwise nothing.

Tuesday I took 5G Stem & Vein, felt a little on edge, kinda like I had 2 cups of espresso, but without the energy boost, just a little anxiety. Sleep was better than Mon night.

Wed I took 4G Stem & Vein, still nothing major, except in the am I was doing a lot of yawning. This was up until I took the S&V at around noon. Then I felt fine, no yawning, just recognizing that I'm not feeling that familiar lift, but no big deal.

Yesterday I took 3G Stem & Vein, still feeling fine through the days, little anxiety, trouble falling asleep (racing mind), but no real WD symptoms.

Today I brought 2G with me, and haven't get the need to take it, actually got caught up and forgot until 2:30 that i hadn't taken any. Going to go the rest of the day and probably through the weekend to see how I feel, but at this point I would be surprised if anything more drastic than some morning yawns hits me tomorrow.

Rob at Leaping Leaf carries Stem & Vein, it's about 75% the cost of Plain Leaf Kratom, and in my opinion, it is the tool for tapering off.

[borohydride]

The active principle is a potent full agonist at the μ receptor - why is this a surprise?

[alpha]

Sorry Boro, I don't understand your question.

[Count Zero]

I think he's saying that after using a mu agonist daily for months, it is no surprise that there are associated wds.

[alpha]

Ahh, Thanks CZ. I guess I wasn't clear in my description.

Yes, there were very mild symptoms that are similar to opiate withdrawals, but as I stated on an earlier post, the level of magnitude is not even close. The point I was trying to make with my withdrawal report was that it was nothing worse than stopping a 2-3 cup of coffee a day habit.

Sure, stopping any habit is going to require adjustment, but calling these withdrawals is an insult to everyone who ever experienced real, gut wrenching, ass pissing, skin crawling, "shoot me in the fucking head to make it stop" withdrawals.

Point still being - kratom is an AWESOME step down tool for real addiction and withdrawals, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[alowishus]

The active principle is a potent full agonist at the μ receptor - why is this a surprise?

Not sure....


Yes there is WD's from kratom.
Had them many times.
Starting clean and taking nothing but kratom for months and then running out you get (I did) WD's.
And if yous taking enhanced or the other UEI/FST stuff of course they are much worse, MUCH.
They don't last that long and aren't in the same league as other "real" opi's WD; but if you are familiar with be dope-sick, this is not unknown territory.

Of course if you are taking real opi's before or during and just using the kratom to maintain the WD's are most likely not from the kratom - still to this day the best way I've heard it put was that kratom doesn't cure WD's but DELAY'S it.

--- auto merge ---

Ahh, Thanks CZ. I guess I wasn't clear in my description.

Yes, there were very mild symptoms that are similar to opiate withdrawals, but as I stated on an earlier post, the level of magnitude is not even close. The point I was trying to make with my withdrawal report was that it was nothing worse than stopping a 2-3 cup of coffee a day habit.

Sure, stopping any habit is going to require adjustment, but calling these withdrawals is an insult to everyone who ever experienced real, gut wrenching, ass pissing, skin crawling, "shoot me in the fucking head to make it stop" withdrawals.

Point still being - kratom is an AWESOME step down tool for real addiction and withdrawals, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Sorry, I SO don't agree with that.