What the fuck's going on? Am I on too much or too little?

[Contemporarium]

I go to a very unbusy clinic in the northern panhandle of west virginia. It's right across the border of PA. Lines are never long, you can have a balance of up to $150, and most importantly, the staff isn't there to try and get you to a dose of 200mg as fast as possible so you can never leave. I could go in tomorrow and say I wanted to go down 1mg every 6 months and they would do it.

Anyways, my life has been going into shambles. I got dumped by the love of my life and moved into an apartment, lost my job so I'm freaking out about next month's bills and wondering how I'm gonna keep a roof over my head and food in my stomach. I am most likely starting a new job in about 2 weeks that is going to pay more than minimum wage and keep us on our feet fine, but I don't have any saved money so I have no idea how I'm gonna pay for september. There are many other things going on but long story short, I'm becoming close to suicidal. Last night I was driving to pick up my roommate from work and I never go the speed limit. Ever. I always speed. But last night i was going 10 under the whole time hoping someone would crash into me going 60 and kill me, or a meteor would hit my car, or that the mayans were wrong and the end of the world is going to come in a week and not make me have to wait 5 more fucking months. I'm really fucked up in my head right now.

Methadone has really helped me. I had the initial glow that most people get and it went away like usual but I still get a buzz every day for a couple hours. And even after the buzz wears off, I still have that numbness that doesn't make me feel everything at once. I've realized I'm a pussy bitch. I don't want to handle everything at once. I want to numb myself and handle everything very slowly, and the methadone makes that easy to do. I'm dealing with them extremely slow one by one, and that's exactly what I need. However, the past week, around 80PM every night, everything comes crashing down. My mind gets flooded with thoughts of being homeless, good memories with my ex, wondering if he found someone new, wondering if I'm actually gonna get this job, etc. SO FUCKING OVERWHELMING. It doesn't start to gradually come on, it just smacks me right in the face around 80PM every night. I'll usually take a handful of tylenol PM and go to bed so I can go to sleep, wake up, and dose. I know I'm still using methadone as an escape and that's not healthy, but right now with everything going wrong in my life (Yes, I know, I should be greatful for what I have. I do a gratitude list every day and try to stay upbeat) it's exactly what I need. I've been crying myself to sleep every night and I'm sick of fucking feeling this way.

My question to you guys, is should I raise my dose? At my clinic you can go up 5mg once a week. The dose I'm at holds me over fine for about 12 hours, but after that I feel like it's completely out of my system, which I know it isn't as methadone's half life is really long. I'm currently at 90mg. I just want to be held over at least until I go to bed. My roommate's aunt has a script for 10mg methadone and he talked to his mom, asking her if she could get some and he would hold on to them and give me like 20mg every night when I picked him up. I think splitting my dose would be the best option here, but my clinic doesn't offer it. I'm not going to be able to get take homes for a long time either. I have to have 4 followups with the doctor, and I haven't had one. I've done everything else right. Clean urines, 1 appointment a week with my counselor, and not letting my balance get too high, but I just can't wait 2 hours past my appointment to see the dr. My roommate needs to get to work and when I have a job so do I.

I'm sorry that there's a lot of rambling in this post, my heads just spinning like crazy. It's only 12:24PM and I'm having anxiety about having anxiety and overwhelming suicidal depression tonight. It's getting ridiculous. I know you guys don't think people should get on high doses, and I respect that, but I just don't know what to do. I really wish I had someone who sold methadone so I could take 20mg or so around 8. My roommates aunt isn't the most reliable so I doubt it'll actually come through. I need a split dose, but I can't fucking get one. I'm so frustrated and feel so hopeless. I'm trying to do everything right and live a good life and shit just keeps getting worse.

Okay I'm gonna stop rambling, I know there's way too many extra details in this post for such a simplistic question. As you guys can probably tell, I don't have many friends where I live to talk to, so I just threw it all up here. Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Junkette]

Methadone made me extremely depressed. I took it for about three months before my girlfriend had enough and we BOTH decided I was better off going back to my self created HMT (heroin maintenance treatment). Although I understand that HMT is not an option for most people, bupe and mdone are not options for me unless I want to be dead of suicide or alone for the rest of my life.

In your situation Jaymin, I think you're really lonely. You live somewhere, that like Cleveland, it fucking sucks being alone and gay. If I were you I would try to find other people in our community to hang out with, because even though it's hard to find a queer scene, there is ALWAYS a queer scene somewhere nearby.

You might also want to consider an antidepressant, just to see if it's at all effective. Hit up a temporary service to see if there is any manual labor type gig that you can get paid to do daily, see if any elderly people in your neighborhood need help with yard work, etc, just to get a few extra bucks. Stay busy, look for work, look for friends. Go to n.a. Meetings and talk to people, not for drugs but to see if they have any employment leads. Maybe go volunteer to do some public service help, or go assist at an animal shelter so that, even though you aren't making money, you feel like you are doing something.

And hey if you end up losing your place you can always sleep in my treehouse in my backyard, it's huge ; )

Also remember if you are desperate enough to committ suicide, you should be desperate enough to do anything else extreme to SAVE your life. If you have enough motivation and courage to kill yourself than you DO have enough motivation and courage to do ANYTHING you can imagine.

[Chipper]

Contempo, I'll have a sleep and get back to you tomorrow (my time) ... by then you would've found your answer but if not, I'll try to break it down.

[nick]

Firstly if you're a pussy bitch......so am I and many others here.

Secondly,you sound depressed and more methadone probably isn't the best way to go.Better to treat the depression specifically-talk to your doctor.

Much luck,man.

[Happy Pillmore]

Methadone made me extremely depressed. I took it for about three months before my girlfriend had enough and we BOTH decided I was better off going back to my self created HMT (heroin maintenance treatment). Although I understand that HMT is not an option for most people, bupe and mdone are not options for me unless I want to be dead of suicide or alone for the rest of my life.

In your situation Jaymin, I think you're really lonely. You live somewhere, that like Cleveland, it fucking sucks being alone and gay. If I were you I would try to find other people in our community to hang out with, because even though it's hard to find a queer scene, there is ALWAYS a queer scene somewhere nearby.

You might also want to consider an antidepressant, just to see if it's at all effective. Hit up a temporary service to see if there is any manual labor type gig that you can get paid to do daily, see if any elderly people in your neighborhood need help with yard work, etc, just to get a few extra bucks. Stay busy, look for work, look for friends. Go to n.a. Meetings and talk to people, not for drugs but to see if they have any employment leads. Maybe go volunteer to do some public service help, or go
assist at an animal shelter so that, even though you aren't making money, you feel like you are doing something.

And hey if you end up losing your place you can always sleep in my treehouse in my backyard, it's huge ; )

Also remember if you are desperate enough to committ suicide, you should be desperate enough to do anything else extreme to SAVE your life. If you have enough motivation and courage to kill yourself than you DO have enough motivation and courage to do ANYTHING you can imagine.

That is such incredibe advice. And as Nick said, you are no pussy man. You are keeping your shit together, geting jobs, etc.
You just need to put yourself out there a little more and I truly believe good things are ahead for you,just like ML stated.
I guess I should have just said "yeah" but you really seem

[kNOw1]

I'm going to post something much longer later.



But everyone told you to keep it under 50mg, 30-40 would have been best. You KNOW this, stop chasing the illusive methadone high, WHAT YOU'RE DOING ISN'T MAINTENANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS A REASON YOU'RE GETTING SO DEPRESSED, SIDE-EFFECTS FROM A DOSE TOO HIGH!

[clinton]

Know1 -i dont think this has anything to do with it -
Did you read everything that's happened to the lad? Telling him it's his fault because his methadone dose is too high is really counterproductive

[pullmyhair]

Know1 -i dont think this has anything to do with it -
Did you read everything that's happened to the lad? Telling him it's his fault because his methadone dose is too high is really counterproductive

+1 I say fuck worrying about arbitrary dose caps. I didn't feel anywhere near normal until I hit 200mgs. If your dose isn't holding you for at least 24 hours, what's the point? People who try to stay under a certain dose and end up miserable aren't doing maintenance the right way, maintenance is for the long haul. I think junkette was right in recommending volunteering somewhere when you're not looking for a job. Having something to do will do wonders for your self worth. Also, apply for food stamps, and call your landlord and tell him/her in advance that your rent is going to be late, but that you have a plan, most landlords (unless their total dicks), will be sympathetic. Also, as junkette said, find support in the community, find a new boyfriend (as long as that's not self destructive). Work on making new music.

[kNOw1]

I should have put "so much more depressed" instead of "so depressed." I'm not trying to say it's his fault or his basis for depression is from methadone, just it's definitely making it worse.

I put I was going to type something longer later because I care a lot about Contemporaium and talk to him a lot on and off site. I know he's got even more going on than he mentioned. I was just answering the question in the title before I typed up my full opinion on everything.

Sorry for coming off like a dick buddy, you know I didn't mean it.

[Michael]

Don't feel bad about what your feeling man, many of us feel the same. I feel like I'm in reverse while everyone is going forwards.

[Chipper]

Ok. I'm asking you to forget the Methadone, don't go up or down. It helps if you appreciate the fact that as an opioid, Methadone is not structurally "perfect" (it's a designer drug and the key's a bit 'loose') when compared to one that does; compared to an (being from a plant base seems to really help) opiate like Heroin which always feels "right" to me.

The drug(Heroin,the key) fits the lock(all your receptors) and turns it (getting right/getting on) Oh so well ! (but not so much so with MD.)

This means that ALL of your withdrawal symptoms will present more often and in varying degrees. When stressed or embarrassed, you will go red, sweat/break out in a sweat etc. You may find yourself more lethargic and even getting goosebumps under more duress.

In fact, forget all about the MD and the dose you're on but and however, to protect yourself from an ever greater reliance on this treatment, the only way is down.

It's too easy to blame the done, and you can of course, but the work MUST start on yourself IF you have been stable on a dose for a few weeks.

That's how I see it.

[No Looking Back]

yeah more methadone is definitely not the answer. Do you have ANYONE you can talk to at all? I'm not a fan personally...but an AA or NA group? Anywhere where you can get shit off your chest and get some feedback.

[clinton]

It's not the methadone man, look more deeply to resolve said issues

[drugsforcats]

Contemporarium... Sorry to hear you are feeling so down, and experiencing a bout of fucked up shit. It sounds like there is plenty going on in your life that would help exacerbate any kind of 'emotional' side effects you might be experiencing from the mdone. As we know, everyone reacts differently, so it is totally within the realm of possibilities that the methadone is leading to increased anxiety/depression regarding difficult situations you are being forced to deal with. Lots of people experience depression (etc.) when taking bupe, so why not methadone? Maybe adjusting your dose down (slowly, of course), even just a few mgs, would help you feel a little better (definately just a maybe, though... you ultimately know better than me, or anyone else).

Seems like everyone here really cares about you, with lots of good advice as to how to help remedy your situation. Not sure I saw it listed yet, (I'm sure someone would recomend it soon, if not already) is just to get as much exercise as possible. It always seems to do wonders for the mood. Even some short walks, can help start to rebuild your natural endorphin system, and all that good stuff....

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that you were on bupe at some point in the 'not to distant' past (winter or spring)? I realize you probably didn't have all the shit going on with your place (needing rent $), job shit and having the SO move out/on (always heartbreaking and tough, without the job and place hassles), BUT... do you remember feeling any better or worse emotionally? For example, lethargy/apathy has always been a problem regarding the mdone (personally), but not so much with bupe (it does have PLENTY of issues of its own though). I guess what I'm getting at is wether or not you feel like some of the depression is related to methadone, and can it be helped/dealt with by medication adjustments?

Maybe you could talk to your doc at the clinic? I know that 90% (maybe more) of them don't really know shit about... well, anything (or just don't care), but more specifically, knowledge redarding side effects of the medication they prescribe would be helpful. Maybe, just maybe yours would have some knowledge and be willing to try to help. Maybe it would get you a step closer to take homes at the same time (sounds like you need to see him/her a few times, anyway, for the take homes). Others have already mentioned at least trying an anti-depressant. I have little experience with them, but if it would help you feel a little more positive and stable amidst the chaos and pains in the ass, maybe it would be worth it. Some (antidepressants) take awhile to 'build up'/start working, so stick with it for at least a few weeks or a month if you do try that route.

Well... I hope things start improving for you soon. Perhaps even a shift in perspective can just make things 'look' more positive. FWIW, you have my empathy and positive thoughts! Clearly lots of people on this board want to see you happy, and see life improve. I hope you get cut a break soon! Sounds like you could use one. In the meantime, take a quick walk or jog (I hope it helps your 'headspace'). Take care, and keep your chin up!
Drugs4cats

[mainline]

You aren't a pussy bitch. I do want to punch you in the face for making me more depressed tonight than ever, though. Like I told you, You're not alone. It's so hard and it's not fair, but I truly believe that you, are gonna okay. No, time doesn't heal all wounds, 'moving on' is about as easy as becoming an olympic high diver by tomorrow, and memories are with you forever. You're a the stage of everything where it's ALL gonna be an uphill battle, for a little while. It will level out, It will still hurt, but it will hurt less. I know how hard it is. I know what it's like to have not a soul care about you, to be 100% alone, growing and changing and thriving for a love that just wont come. To feel too 'broken' or 'damaged' to even deserve it. I promise you, J, that as long as I'm still breathing (one day at a time) I'm rock solid standing in your corner and will be here for you the entire way. You made me turn into a total sappy bitch. Thanks. I love you though.


The methadone isn't the problem. We both know that.

[Contemporarium]

Oh my god..I just wrote out a reply to everyone, and was copy+pasting the replies to the big message, as I wanted to quote everyone. I accidently submitted one of the quotes, and I lost everything else I wrote. I don't want to write all that again, so here's the jist of it..

I know that methadone isn't my main problem. I know that methadone isn't making me feel this way. However, the methadone makes it so that I can deal with these problems at a very slow and steady pace, which is what I need right now. It really is working, and the reason I want to increase is simply because I want it to last until I go to bed. Everyone's different. I know I'm not "sick" as that would be nearly impossible, but again, everyones different. Some people might need 20mgs, while the next, with the exact same habit, might need 250mg. I really wish I could take 90mg in the morning, then, say, 40mg around 7PM. That would be perfect. My roommate's aunt gets 10mg methadone pills and he asked his mom to get some from her so he could give me like 20mg when I picked him up from work every night, and I really hope that goes through because I wouldn't have to up my dose.

I'm sorry that I can't have a quote from everyone to make all of you feel like I'm replying to you individually, but seriously, everyone, chipper, nick, Happy Pilmore, Clinton, NLB, Michael, pullmyhair, and know1, thank you for taking time to reply to this thread. It seriously means more to me than you guys know.

Methadone made me extremely depressed. I took it for about three months before my girlfriend had enough and we BOTH decided I was better off going back to my self created HMT (heroin maintenance treatment). Although I understand that HMT is not an option for most people, bupe and mdone are not options for me unless I want to be dead of suicide or alone for the rest of my life.

In your situation Jaymin, I think you're really lonely. You live somewhere, that like Cleveland, it fucking sucks being alone and gay. If I were you I would try to find other people in our community to hang out with, because even though it's hard to find a queer scene, there is ALWAYS a queer scene somewhere nearby.

You might also want to consider an antidepressant, just to see if it's at all effective. Hit up a temporary service to see if there is any manual labor type gig that you can get paid to do daily, see if any elderly people in your neighborhood need help with yard work, etc, just to get a few extra bucks. Stay busy, look for work, look for friends. Go to n.a. Meetings and talk to people, not for drugs but to see if they have any employment leads. Maybe go volunteer to do some public service help, or go assist at an animal shelter so that, even though you aren't making money, you feel like you are doing something.

And hey if you end up losing your place you can always sleep in my treehouse in my backyard, it's huge ; )

Also remember if you are desperate enough to committ suicide, you should be desperate enough to do anything else extreme to SAVE your life. If you have enough motivation and courage to kill yourself than you DO have enough motivation and courage to do ANYTHING you can imagine.

I wish I would have seen this sooner and replied to it sooner. You are awesome <3 Thanks for the nice words. My roommate is trying to find benzos for me every day because of how much anxiety I'm in 8 hours after I dose. It sucks. Methadone really does help me but as soon as it wears off I'm in panic mode. I can't get on anti depressants because I don't have a doctor I can go to because I only have insurance in the state of California.


(I'm gonna reply to everyone one by one btw..give me a minute though lol)

--- auto merge ---

Contemporarium... Sorry to hear you are feeling so down, and experiencing a bout of fucked up shit. It sounds like there is plenty going on in your life that would help exacerbate any kind of 'emotional' side effects you might be experiencing from the mdone. As we know, everyone reacts differently, so it is totally within the realm of possibilities that the methadone is leading to increased anxiety/depression regarding difficult situations you are being forced to deal with. Lots of people experience depression (etc.) when taking bupe, so why not methadone? Maybe adjusting your dose down (slowly, of course), even just a few mgs, would help you feel a little better (definately just a maybe, though... you ultimately know better than me, or anyone else).

Seems like everyone here really cares about you, with lots of good advice as to how to help remedy your situation. Not sure I saw it listed yet, (I'm sure someone would recomend it soon, if not already) is just to get as much exercise as possible. It always seems to do wonders for the mood. Even some short walks, can help start to rebuild your natural endorphin system, and all that good stuff....

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that you were on bupe at some point in the 'not to distant' past (winter or spring)? I realize you probably didn't have all the shit going on with your place (needing rent $), job shit and having the SO move out/on (always heartbreaking and tough, without the job and place hassles), BUT... do you remember feeling any better or worse emotionally? For example, lethargy/apathy has always been a problem regarding the mdone (personally), but not so much with bupe (it does have PLENTY of issues of its own though). I guess what I'm getting at is wether or not you feel like some of the depression is related to methadone, and can it be helped/dealt with by medication adjustments?

Maybe you could talk to your doc at the clinic? I know that 90% (maybe more) of them don't really know shit about... well, anything (or just don't care), but more specifically, knowledge redarding side effects of the medication they prescribe would be helpful. Maybe, just maybe yours would have some knowledge and be willing to try to help. Maybe it would get you a step closer to take homes at the same time (sounds like you need to see him/her a few times, anyway, for the take homes). Others have already mentioned at least trying an anti-depressant. I have little experience with them, but if it would help you feel a little more positive and stable amidst the chaos and pains in the ass, maybe it would be worth it. Some (antidepressants) take awhile to 'build up'/start working, so stick with it for at least a few weeks or a month if you do try that route.

Well... I hope things start improving for you soon. Perhaps even a shift in perspective can just make things 'look' more positive. FWIW, you have my empathy and positive thoughts! Clearly lots of people on this board want to see you happy, and see life improve. I hope you get cut a break soon! Sounds like you could use one. In the meantime, take a quick walk or jog (I hope it helps your 'headspace'). Take care, and keep your chin up!
Drugs4cats

I wanna start off by saying thank you. your post meant a lot to me..now to break it down, paragraph by paragraph-
I was prescribed bupe only once, and I didn't take it..I sold it. That was when I was 17 though. When I was posting on the phile I was shooting up 2mg a day as a maintanance thing. And when I was with my ex, I still had depression, but he was soooooo good at lifting me up. He'd always be so patient and listen to all of my problems and wouldn't stop talking to me until I was smiling and willing to kiss him. His support was the reason I didn't go off the deep end like I am now..and I would do anything to have it back..ANYWAYS-
I am going to talk to my doctor at the clinic. I have an appointment with him soon. Funny thing is, I've been going to the clinic for about 4 months now and I haven't been able to make one appointment with him due to the fact that he is TERRIBLE at managing time, and my roommate and I both work. I can't wait 4 hours like the chicks on welfare at my clinic can. That isn't a stick to everyone on welfare..I just can't stand some of them at my clinic. ALWAYS bitching about something. I just want to shout "HEY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK! WHO FUCKING CARES IF THE DRIVETHROUGH LADY AT MCDONALDS WAS RUDE TO YOU!!!" I mean, for real. But anyways, thank you for your nice advice, it really did mean a lot to me.

And mainline, you know how I feel about you, and if you don't, I love you a lot. You really have helped me with the whole Jeff situation. I don't feel better about it at all, but I understand it a lot more.

Bottom line, thank you all for your replies. I've never gotten such an infux of positivity and compassion. It's seriously so nice to feel love and empathy, even if it's from a forum. Reading all these replies just made me smile, and I'm very happy that you guys care enough about me to write me these long posts. Much love guys.