motherfucking doctors

[madnesscult]

I recently moved from a large SoCal city to a small NorCal one, and am down to my last few subs. Since my doc in the other city won't refill the scirpt without seeing me in person, I've been forced to find a new doc up here (of which there are 3, and only one accepting patients). When I called originally, the secretary said that they would be able to accept my health insurance, so I thought everything would be fine. So I get a call today from the doc for an interview concerning my history, and he tells me that no, they won't be accepting insurance right now, and if I want a script, I'll have to pay $400 for the first visit, and $100 after that (for bi-weekly visits), plus whatever I have to pay for the subs themselves. I told him that I couldn't pay that, and unless he can do a payment plan, I'm going to have to figure something out until they'll accept insurance, at which time he tells me that he doesn't think they'll ever be accepting insurance. God this pisses me off soooooo much. Thank god I'm going back home where I can find some decent H to tide me over for a bit. But I don't know what the fuck I'll do when that runs out. The methadone clinic is full and has a waiting list of like 10 people, and the next nearest one is like 150 miles away. I'm so damn stressed and infuriated with this...docs say they want to help us, but in reality the only reason these dicks get certified or whatever to prescribe suboxone is for their own personal profits. And is a 20-minute visit with some asshole to get a goddamned piece of paper really worth $400? Jesus christ. I understand wanting to make a profit, but this shit is ridiculous!

Sorry, I suppose this should be in the "piss and moan" forum, but since it's specific to a bupe doc, I thought it would fit here...

[SpecialGuy69]

Its really fucked up- I pay $75/visit, once a month to a badass bupe doc who is kind enough to call in scripts occasionally (saving me the cost of that month's visit) and script me anything I want that's non-opiate- xanax, valium, ambien, clonezapam (sp?), clonidine, adderall, etc. The man is a saint- nice guy, too. I think there are a few other people on here who see him. Oh, and he has never once asked me to decrease my script.

Anyways, I have friends who see a dickhead sub doc for $200/visit, every 2 weeks! And this is like 5 miles down the road from my guy. I've pleaded with them to try and switch, but they still go to their bloodsucker and drop $400/month. WTF??? And this expensive doc won't script anything but subox, my guy gives 'tex, and he won't write anything besides the subs- no benzos, no sleep meds, no clonidine, nuffin! What a dickbag!

How can this guy justify his fees when there's another guy right down the street who will do a better job for hundreds less?

Anyways, I totally feel you on this one- your forced to get dope when you dont want to (?) because the doc is being an asshole. F that. I just hope someone doesn't fuck it up and get em regulated harder- then we'll have to go to the sub clinic every morning- fuck that

[repeek]

Check the area for psychiatrist, they can prescribe Suboxone for depression and not have to deal with the thirty patient rule and most other rules.

[madnesscult]

I actually did do the sub clinic thing for a while...the methadone clinic I had been going to started offering suboxone, and I switched. But they're almost as bad as these docs, charging $18.50 per day (regardless of what your dose was). I was so angry when I found out that an 8mg pill costs $4 retail.

But yeah, he's probably not going to take insurance so he can further his profits...I've heard of docs that don't accept insurance and instead of giving their patients scripts, they just get the bupe themselves and break them down into smaller doses to make them last through more patients. I think there was a post on here a while back (might have been heroin-detox.com though), but some guy had been going to a doc and was getting his bupe in these gumdrop looking things, and had no idea what dose he was actually on.

As for being 'forced' to go get dope, that is in no way the situation. I was planning on taking a little "vacation" from the subs over Halloween anyway. What sucks is that the dope in this town is seriously like 1/10 the strength of what I get at home.

I'm just glad that I don't have a pain condition to deal with on top of just trying to stay well.

[madnesscult]

Repeek: would the psych docs be listed on the suboxone.com directory? Or should I just go to one and say that I've been taking it, but ran out? Is there a way they can get the records from the sub doc (which I assume say that I'm opioid dependent)?

[SpecialGuy69]

I wish I could get subs for $4 each! Around here, it cost me about $150 for 24. Its crazy- My old insurance rejected it, and now I'm really glad they did, just so it's not on any records (or as many) so I can still see the pain doc once a month and get hooked up.

I'm lucky enough to have a very good friend who is way overprescribed subutex, his insurance pays for it, and gives me enough to get by each month (If I'm stingy). Well I really hope things get better for you.

I guess the thing to do would be to stock up at $4/pill next time you get an opportunity. My situation is different maybe that's not an option or something. Anyways good luck with it, and yeah, its really really hard to find a cool subutex doctor!

I haven't been to my guy in so long, I wonder if he still has me as one of his 30 patients??? It's been over 6 months since I've seen him, and since then, I've referred 5 or 6 people to him. Shit!!!! I hope I didn't unknowingly fuck myself out of a compassionate sub doc!

[madnesscult]

I don't think I actually got them for $4/pill, but that was what the clinic paid. When I got my script I paid like $60 per bottle (I think there were 60 8mg pills in each), but that was with insurance. I just couldn't deal with the full price (without insurance), which was something like $350.

But yeah, I'm trying to figure out a plan. The doc in my hometown seemed pretty cool, but I fucked that up and am afraid to go back (I went to the first appointment, got my script, then didn't show up for when I was supposed to get my first dose in her office). But yeah, I was way over-scripted, but that was intentionally...I told the doc that I had been doing 2x the heroin that I actually was so I could get enough subs for both me and my boyfriend ('cos he doesn't have insurance), and she put me on 32mg per day! At first I was selling some to a friend at $1 per mg, but that ended up only being like 8 or 9 pills. Even so, that one bottle lasted us up until now...

If that cool doc you were going to still remembers you, then they'll probably take you in again over someone new, but then again, you never know.

[repeek]

Repeek: would the psych docs be listed on the suboxone.com directory? Or should I just go to one and say that I've been taking it, but ran out? Is there a way they can get the records from the sub doc (which I assume say that I'm opioid dependent)?

I just told my psyc I didn’t want any record of substance abuse, and he didn’t want my insurance company to know, so they were prescribed for depression. Worked out well and he even called in my first couple of scripts, most psycs are cool; they love the doctor client privilege thing and aren’t bound by the 30 patient BS either.

Oh ya, you would want to pick one that is not on the Sub list.

[nick]

Mother fucking doctors,says it all.

[Sitar]

Not to rub it in or anything, but my bupe doc is pretty darn cool. He has me come in only every other month and the visits only cost $110, so it's not that expensive. He also gave me a script for Klonopin when I asked for it, even though benzos are contraindicated (for some stupid reason) in the literature on Suboxone.

[Narkotikon]

You know, that really does suck. I've never taken Suboxone, but I've looked into it. The clinic I was at offered suboxone this past spring, but the price was more than for the clinic, and there was a wiating list. I don't see why there has to be a 30 patient limit. You'd think with all the shit that methadone gets now adays, there'd be a lot more people cheering for some other alternative. That is if we didn't live in a ignorant society.

[ZodiacKiller]

I've read that there is supposedley legislation going forward to rescind or at least expand the patient limit for Buprenorphine prescribing. Mainly because the waiting list at most clinics is so long.

I wonder how psychiatrists are prescribing it without DEA scrutiny. From all I've read, there has to be a verifiable DEA # on the script, and all my scripts certainly have it.

My clinic is pretty cool; no piss-drops, the docs RX's benzos pretty liberally, and he switched me to Subutex with no second thought when I complained of headaches (I just want to snort some of my bupe, and the thought of snorting Suboxone---yuck!). I'm in there for 10 minutes once a month and walk out with my script. And they take our insurance, which pays for most of it. I have a set co-pay for my script every month that never changes.

Madness, that clinic that says they don't take insurance sounds pretty shady to me---any respectable medical facility is gonna want you to have insurance---that way they know they're gonna get at least partially paid from all these junkies. It sounds like a guy I talked to when trying to get into a bupe program--this Paki DR. who said "yes, you bring $300, I write you script for whatever you want". Oh, sure, that was tempting, but in the end just seemed way too sketchy....

Best of luck to you in your search....



ZK

[madnesscult]

I've read that there is supposedley legislation going forward to rescind or at least expand the patient limit for Buprenorphine prescribing. Mainly because the waiting list at most clinics is so long.

Madness, that clinic that says they don't take insurance sounds pretty shady to me---any respectable medical facility is gonna want you to have insurance---that way they know they're gonna get at least partially paid from all these junkies. It sounds like a guy I talked to when trying to get into a bupe program--this Paki DR. who said "yes, you bring $300, I write you script for whatever you want". Oh, sure, that was tempting, but in the end just seemed way too sketchy....

The only reason that the doc wouldn't want to take insurance is to make more money. If he's not going through insurance companies he can 1) charge whatever the fuck he wants, and 2) is not restricted to the 30-patient limit. As for the getting paid issue, he'll only see you and give your your perscription if you pay up front, before you actually get to speak with him. I was originally thinking he'd be one of those "whatever you want" foreign doctors because his name is Aboueesh, but nooooo.

The patient limit thing really does suck. Even when I was living in a big city (where I got my original script), it took me like a month to find a doctor that would accept me as a patient and take my insurance! And it's worse up here...there's a doc that's 20 miles away whose waiting list I'm on right now, and there's another one 60 miles away who apparently doesn't accept patients who live outside of the city he's in, which is ridiculous. Apparently he's got like 10 open slots, but even though I'm willing to drive all the way the fuck down there, he won't accept me.

Bah, whatever. I'll be back in SoCal the day after tomorrow getting high as fuck on some nice H. I can deal with a long-term plan later.

[repeek]

I wonder how psychiatrists are prescribing it without DEA scrutiny. From all I've read, there has to be a verifiable DEA # on the script, and all my scripts certainly have it.


ZK

A psychiatrists can prescribe for other than substance abuse, bup was and still is prescribed for depression; the psychiatrists does not have to (or any doctor for that matter) adhere to the DEA protocol because he is not dealing with a substance abuse case. He is just prescribing a newer medication with the same active ingredient as the one he would have prescribed a couple of years ago. I kinda drilled my psychiatrists on this issue because I didn’t want substance abuse on my medical record; it was no problem for him. For him it is just another schedule III medication, if he were running a clinic it would be another story. And he seemed to be aware of the DEA protocol because he used to run a Methadone clinic and was tired of all the scrutiny and paper work that came with that package.

I checked out my psychiatrists and he is a well known author and an expert witness for both prosecutors and lawyers in cases where substance abuse is an issue both criminal and civil.

[Coddfish]

junkies are probably the most opressed people in this country. jobs, health care, constant steorotyping, prison; they are all serious problems. makes me ill to think about it.

[nick]

junkies are probably the most opressed people in this country. jobs, health care, constant steorotyping, prison; they are all serious problems. makes me ill to think about it.

Amen,Amen.I hear this man.Junkies have become societies scape goats.The only people hated more than us are;child molesters,terrorists and politicians and we don't pull half the shit these others pull.

[raiders1!]

hey madness
hit me up.........im up here and i know all the liberal nice docs who will hook it up if you can act good. But i guess if that was the case you'd be down south still working on your movie career. WEll get together and go down to U-town or up to M-town, they got clinics there. I dont know how to PM you, so hit me up on this thread if you see this. SR has 20 grams and clinics where you can score 2 dlolla dones, if you wanna go that far.

holla back,
pease

[raiders1!]

btw, go down and get on CMSP and go to open sore or the one in e-town and they give you 120/mo. free, but you gots to be on welfare........hit me up....this place sucks

[vaxn8]

They actually have already changed the 30 patient limit, it used to be 30 per clinic even if there were 5 different docs. Now at least a 5 doc clinic can take 30 for each doc. It's not great but it's better than it used to be.

[Hammilton]

a doc who prescribes any narcotic for anything but pain is really asking for trouble. It doesn't matter what he's saying it's for- because it requires a DEA#, they'll find out eventually and then he'll wish he didn't. Patient-Provider privelege has nothing to do with it. Everyone in the medical profession is covered by it to the exact same extent. Dunno where anyone got the idea that for some reason other docs weren't afforded the same coverage.

Second, the 30-patient restriction has nothing to do with insurance. It was a regulatory thing when the act that made bupe legal for addiction was passed.

Third, they didn't say they take *no* insurance, just not your insurance. It'd be awfully uncommon for every clinic to take every insurance plan, and the only plans that restrict payment are HMOs, and while they're real common, they have pretty generous allotments for addiction and mental health doctors (they only restrict how many times they'll pay, usually).

A $400 intake isn't unheard of. Hell, it isn't very much at all. I paid 300 for mine- and insuranced paid 80% of it. Now I pay 50 bucks a visit. I only see him once a month now that I'm stable though.

[antony]

whats the currency exchange on USD/pelts?

[Hammilton]

ah dunno, it depends. from 1p= 10USD to 1p= 500USD. lol Lately for me it's been averagin' 1p= 20-30USD, with 10 a week. Next week it'll drop to 10 a piece but it'll increase to 50-100 a week thanks to a generous donation of steel.

[antony]

Sounds like if you were to somehow find a chinchilla around wisconsin, you'd be set.

[repeek]

a doc who prescribes any narcotic for anything but pain is really asking for trouble. It doesn't matter what he's saying it's for- because it requires a DEA#, they'll find out eventually and then he'll wish he didn't. Patient-Provider privelege has nothing to do with it. Everyone in the medical profession is covered by it to the exact same extent. Dunno where anyone got the idea that for some reason other docs weren't afforded the same coverage.

.

The thing that sucks with the DEA protocol is the reporting, if a doctor is running an clinic he is bound by the protocol and has to report how much, how long, how many, how often and no telling what else. A regular MD or in my case psyc is just prescribing a schedule III narcotic. He has to use his DEA# like everybody else, but because he is not prescribing the drug to everyone and his brother, the chances of his practice being flagged by the DEA is pretty slim. You would be surprised how often narcotics are prescribed for other than pain, my first taste of dilaiudid was for a cough. For depression of course the type of narcotics allowed to be prescribed I think would be limited, and Bup is one that has a success record with depression (at least that is what my phyc says). He has international credentials; this guy has been all over the place.

In any case, I asked how to get treated without the label; he said it would not be a problem. He does not run a addiction practice.

[madnesscult]

Third, they didn't say they take *no* insurance, just not your insurance. It'd be awfully uncommon for every clinic to take every insurance plan, and the only plans that restrict payment are HMOs, and while they're real common, they have pretty generous allotments for addiction and mental health doctors (they only restrict how many times they'll pay, usually).

I'm covered under 2 different insurance plans - one's an HMO and the other a PPO, so usually docs with take at least one of them, but this doc said that they wouldn't be accepting any insurance for the bupe treatment.

[alowishus]

but this doc said that they wouldn't be accepting any insurance for the bupe treatment.

Alrighty, here's my 2 cent.

That guy sounds real shady. Only someone doing something they didn't want to get out (paper trial, red flags, over charging, etc) would have that policy in place.

Hope you get sorted Madness.

[SpecialGuy69]

Hey madness- has your situation resolved itself yet? motherfucking doctors

[madnesscult]

No. I'm out-of-town right now, but when I'm back on Monday, I'm going to try and find a psych doctor or something.

[Hammilton]

I agree that the odds aren't real great of getting busted, but if word gets out... Depending how often he does it will increase the odds greatly.

I don't think insurance has much to do with it. Madnesscult, did they say they don't acccept *any* insurance, or only yours? The latter is common, but I've never heard of the former.

If it was the latter, I don't think it means anything, but if it's the former, I'd agree that something sounds off.

And narcotics for coughs is incredibly common, even dilaudid. Dilaudid's used quite commonly for younger kids w/ unproductive coughs. Codeine and Hydrocodone are used more commonly for older people with the same sort of coughs. Why the stronger med for younger kids? I think it's because they tend to get worse coughs, but I can't find an explicit answer. Could call my doc, but that might raise suspicions...

BTW- here's an interesting item. http://tinyurl.com/yk2pgx - it's a google-cache of a Wallgreens site. If you don't feel like reading it, anyway, under contraindications it lists SODIUM OXYBATE. I had to google that, to make sure, but that's GHB. I had forgotten this little tidbit of idiocy in the US drug schedules. Xyrem, the brand-name Sodium Oxybate, is an FDA-approved treatment for Narcolepsy. But the substance is also a Schedule I drug, meaning there's no legitimate medical uses.

Stupid stupid stupid. I think that anyone busted with GHB ought to argue that they weren't carrying a Schedule I substance, but rather an unscheduled legal drug. You'd lose the first trial. Jury's are harsh on drug users, no matter what, but I think an educated judge might overturn it; DEA or whoever would surely appeal that decision, but it'd be an interesting trial to watch.

Same reason I think someone should start making synthetic THC analogues. I mean, synthetic THC (Dronabinol(sp?), or Marinol) is CIII, so a synthetic analogue ought to be outside the purview Controlled Substance Analogue Act. Would like to see that trial too.

[madnesscult]

Hammilton: they said that they wouldn't be accepting ANY insurance. I've encountered a few sub doctors that don't accept any insurance before, but most of them do. And I agree, there's something shady about those docs that don't deal with insurance.