Made mistake

[Wolterp]

Hey everyone,

Today I inducted on my subs after a long vacay. Took 2mgs in the AM upon waking and no problems... Didn't really solve all my WD symptoms as my nose was still runny but other than that I was feeling OK. Anyway, fast forward like 4-5 hours and I've copped some TarTar sauce and I'm doing it. I do feel it (i guess the 2mgs didn't really block my receptors that well) but I'm like, "Shit i wish i didn't do that". Today I was to start on my subs and stay on them.

Given the situation and my muff up I'd like to continue with my sub induction and take another 2 mgs and then later another 2 mgs so i can block my receptors and prevent the stupid mistake I made from happening again. I'm a bit worried that now i could push myself into PWD since i was able to get high despite my sub dose of 2mgs in the morning. What do you guys think.... safe to continue with my induction day and continue loading up on the sub or restart fresh tomorrow?

[smokey]

why waste sub doses if you feel fine(high for that matter)? id wait until tomorrow morning and give it another go, when w/d kicks in, and not repeat the same 'mistake'

[Wolterp]

why waste sub doses if you feel fine(high for that matter)? id wait until tomorrow morning and give it another go, when w/d kicks in, and not repeat the same 'mistake'

True, i really just want to block my receptors so that even if i want to get high i can't. I'm so pissed at myself for doing this that I'm not even enjoying my high. Been planning this day for a while. I'll wait till tomorrow. Do you think i'd go into PWD if i did though (I'm not going to) but curious.

It's shitty too because I have more dope that I could potentially get high on

[smokey]

3options. finish your dope, give away your dope, or toss your dope. do not keep your dope. your just setting yourself up for failure tomorrow or in the near future, guy.

On another note, i learned this lesson the hard way, if you don't use for a week or 2 and start feeling a little better and decide to do dope, your kick is going to start from scratch all over again
get serious about your shit and do it.

[SeVeN]

Thje problem is, you will eventually just not take your subs so that you can get high, and then end up taking your subs when you dont wanna get sick.

I foresee this in your future.

[Wolterp]

Thje problem is, you will eventually just not take your subs so that you can get high, and then end up taking your subs when you dont wanna get sick.

I foresee this in your future.

I've been prescribed subs for a while, and it's the one drug i hold a different mindset towards. I view it as my one remaining ticket to sobriety so i've never abused it always taken it as prescribed.

[SeVeN]

I've been prescribed subs for a while, and it's the one drug i hold a different mindset towards. I view it as my one remaining ticket to sobriety so i've never abused it always taken it as prescribed.

No offense really man, but it doesnt sound like it.

You just said that you were starting your subs at the end of a kick and you still had some WD symptoms. Then you did some bt.

How long is " a while".

Really not trying to be an asshole, but sometimes we prefer to see things how we want to see them instead of how they are. And of course i really only have two posts to go off of, so i could be oh so wrong.

[smokey]

Thje problem is, you will eventually just not take your subs so that you can get high, and then end up taking your subs when you dont wanna get sick.

I foresee this in your future.

future-crystal-ball-300x277.jpg

[Wolterp]

I guess "Vacay" is the wrong word as i was never really officially on suboxone although I have taken it enough to know it's effect on me and that it has the potential to greatly help me. I've been going to the doctor regularly, and keeping my prescription current but i haven't committed to taking them since starting treatment (starting treatment as in going to the sub doc/ seeing my drug counselor). Not long ago I created a thread "afraid to commit to subs" that explains some of my reluctance to actually begin taking my subs.... I've been working through the fear and reluctance and today was going to be the day that i actually began taking my subs but spoiled it with my purchase.

--- auto merge ---

No offense really man, but it doesnt sound like it.

You just said that you were starting your subs at the end of a kick and you still had some WD symptoms. Then you did some bt.

How long is " a while".

Really not trying to be an asshole, but sometimes we prefer to see things how we want to see them instead of how they are. And of course i really only have two posts to go off of, so i could be oh so wrong.

Not taking offense at all. Check out my "afraid to commit to subs" thread to learn more about my relationship to subs. When i say taken as prescribed I mean always let it melt under my tongue... i guess not totally taken as prescribed cuzz i'm supposed to take 12mgs a day but certainly don't.

[Baroness]

You aren't going to "commit" to subs until your dope is gone and until you decide not to get more dope.

When you're out of dope, wait until you're good and dope sick....not a little sick....start with about 2 mg. and wait a while. If you don't feel better, take another 2 mg. and see if you feel better. You should probly feel okay around 6 or 8 mgs. Less is more with subs. Do not let the doctor convince you that you need 24 mgs a day. Keep it low. It'll be easier to get off later. Sub w/d isn't pleasant.

Honestly, IMO, you're wasting time and money. Jumping back and forth between dope and subs defeats the purpose of both. Eventually you'll get enough sub in you that you won't feel the dope at all. Or enough dope in you that the sub throws you into PWD.

Or, just keep the subs around for when you're outta dope to keep you well.


tl;dr: decide what you really want to do first.

[Wolterp]

You aren't going to "commit" to subs until your dope is gone and until you decide not to get more dope.

When you're out of dope, wait until you're good and dope sick....not a little sick....start with about 2 mg. and wait a while. If you don't feel better, take another 2 mg. and see if you feel better. You should probly feel okay around 6 or 8 mgs. Less is more with subs. Do not let the doctor convince you that you need 24 mgs a day. Keep it low. It'll be easier to get off later. Sub w/d isn't pleasant.

Honestly, IMO, you're wasting time and money. Jumping back and forth between dope and subs defeats the purpose of both. Eventually you'll get enough sub in you that you won't feel the dope at all. Or enough dope in you that the sub throws you into PWD.

Or, just keep the subs around for when you're outta dope to keep you well.


tl;dr: decide what you really want to do first.

I really want to commit to subs. I have not been hoping back and forth between subs and dope... i have only been doing dope, tried the subs a couple times but i know I want to go the sub route so I have been going to the doc regularly and keeping up my prescription for when i'm ready to make the switch over. Today was going to be that day but i made a mistake, one that i will not make again.

[smokey]

If i may ask what pushed you to physically go out cop then use, all the while knowing in the back of your mind that today is the day you commit yourself to subs, and that you have already taken 2mgs of suboxone and have a set sched of re-dose times ahead of you for the remainder of the day? i have done this countless times as well, curious to get inside your mind though if you will.

[Wolterp]

If i may ask what pushed you to physically go out cop then use, all the while knowing in the back of your mind that today is the day you commit yourself to subs, and that you have already taken 2mgs of suboxone and have a set sched of re-dose times ahead of you for the remainder of the day? i have done this countless times as well, curious to get inside your mind though if you will.

You know, I've been contemplating this all day since it happened. A few things happened with work that I didn't want to deal with/stressed me out and I came down with a serious case of the "fuck its". I new i had to deal with the work stuff but wanted to deal with it and not care what the outcome was and dope allows me to work without really caring what happens... I'm in sales and often I get emotionally involved with the outcome(s) and this causes a lot of distress for me. I have known for a long time that my job is quite possibly my # 1 trigger. I must have looked ridiculous as I walked towards the place I go to cop, cell phone in hand ready to call my cnct and changed my mind like 5 times resulting in me walking up and down the street multiple times.

So to answer your question... not wanting to deal with stuff that happened to come up during my work day triggered me

[smokey]

"fuck its". I have known for a long time that my job is quite possibly my # 1 trigger. I must have looked ridiculous as I walked towards the place I go to cop, cell phone in hand ready to call my cnct and changed my mind like 5 times resulting in me walking up and down the street multiple times.

ahh yes the fuck its, that mindset will surely do it 9.9 times out of 10. I think dealing with that trigger should be a bigger priority for you besides the subs. Continuously being triggered to use, and a common place like work is a recipe for disaster, do not know much so no advice except you need to find a way to deal with it, and quick.

'5 times up and down' lol i have done that before at the mall trying to decide if i should sell more gold for dope, at the end i did.

[Wolterp]

ahh yes the fuck its, that mindset will surely do it 9.9 times out of 10. I think dealing with that trigger should be a bigger priority for you besides the subs. Continuously being triggered to use, and a common place like work is a recipe for disaster, do not know much so no advice except you need to find a way to deal with it, and quick.

'5 times up and down' lol i have done that before at the mall trying to decide if i should sell more gold for dope, at the end i did.

Hahaha, I think generally when it gets to the point where your "mental considering" has manifested physically into motion (ie the pacing back and forth, or reaching for the cell phone etc...) your in big trouble...


I agree, if i stand a chance at sustained sobriety I need to find a new job or a different role in the company... I work from home and the isolation combined with the stress really makes things difficult.

[alowishus]

Now I'm confused, what is it that you think you will get from taking subs?
What are you looking to get out of your commitment?
How long have you had your Rx for subs? Why did you 1st go to the sub doc?
What do you think blocking your receptors will do for you?
What is your end game?

[Matt]

I've done the same thing : take Sub and then do some tar sometime after. But as long as you wait a good 20-24 hours from your last dose of H you'll be fine. I've done it many times with no problem.

The information out there can be misleading because it seems to be more a matter of time elapsed from last full-agonist dose instead of how sick you're feeling, because a lot of the time I won't be feeling a full withdrawal when I take my Sub but I know I've given myself enough time since the last full-agonist dose so by then I know it has metabolized and cleared my receptors even though I'm not feeling all-too-bad. And other times when I've been feeling way shitty, not that much time had passed but I figured I was good to go anyway but the Subs either didn't work or made it a little worse. But that's just me and Subs treat everyone differently.

[Wolterp]

Now I'm confused, what is it that you think you will get from taking subs?
What are you looking to get out of your commitment?
How long have you had your Rx for subs? Why did you 1st go to the sub doc?
What do you think blocking your receptors will do for you?
What is your end game?

Wow I like this barrage of questions!...feels like a test on which my answers will be graded harshly ha.... For a little more background about my issues with starting sub check out my "afraid to commit to sub thread"... Now on to my test questions!... Please be nice teacher?

1. I have taken subs a few times in the past including a stint in rehab where they used them to detox me. I am familiar with the effect they have on me despite not having taken them for any consistent amount of time. I feel they make my cravings more manageable and also lift my depression a bit. My commitment to taking my subs consistently will, I hope allow me to begin living a more normal life with out dope. I am hopeful and confident that I wil be better able to manage my cravings on a consistent and appropriate dose of sub. When ready I will taper of the sub... I View them kinda like training wheels.

2. I have been prescribed sub for 3 or 4 months. I decided to go to a sub doctor because I have been trying unsuccessfully to get sober for a long time... Inpatient rehab, 12 step etc... This is a different approach, coupled with an independent counselor that I have started seeing.

3. Knowing my receptors are blocked gives me a sense of security that even if I were to feel the want/need to use, I would be wasting my money because I wouldn't get high. It could potentially Be helpful and a serve as a reality check when those "in-the-moment" scenarios come up. (Kind of like today when I got caught up in my emotions around work and went to cop.... Had I known my receptors were blocked and I couldn't get high, I think that I may have reconsidered my choice). A lot of my use happens in this fashion, and blocked receptors means that it will require a bit of planning to get high... This may just be the delay I need allowing me time to reconsider my behavior.

4. My end game: I hope to one day learn how to navigate this world sober and comfortably.


Yeah I messed up my induction today and I feel really shitty and discouraged about it, but I'm trying to remain positive and give it another go tomorrow.... It was a learning experience, and a reminder at how much I let me job affect me.

-wolly

[Bricks & Stacks]

I skipped most of the thread but if you did the dope a few hours after sub you don't have to wait anytime to redose. The subs are already in you enough to be on your receptors even if you still got high off d. Sorry i know that's not written very clearly its like this

7am 2mg subs
12pm 1 gram of tar
3pm 2mg of sub

^^Thats straight as long as you give the sub an.hour or two to work before dope, at least in my experience

[SHELLEY]

I must have looked ridiculous as I walked towards the place I go to cop, cell phone in hand ready to call my cnct and changed my mind like 5 times resulting in me walking up and down the street multiple times.

i've done this thousands of times while walking to the crack mans house
back, forth, back, forth, before i make my final decision

[Fat Pie]

The average blocking dose for suboxone is 12mg-16mg+.

Whether you wanna go that high is up to you.

[Bricks & Stacks]

Pie you say that like its fact i know your doc told you and it is for you but i and a lot of people i know experience hard blocking at 2mg over 4mg and i can't feel shit and I'm talking doing like 2 bundles on top of 4mg and feeling exactly the same

[Fat Pie]

Pie you say that like its fact i know your doc told you and it is for you but i and a lot of people i know experience hard blocking at 2mg over 4mg and i can't feel shit and I'm talking doing like 2 bundles on top of 4mg and feeling exactly the same

Not a fact, just an average. It will differ for each individual, and depend on factors like height, weight, ROA, how much bupe they've absorbed, what kind of opiate they're taking on top, how much of that opiate they're taking, how pure that opiate is, how long they wait before dosing etc.

The OP may be at too low a dose to block all his receptors (a fact I don't think he's considered).

[Wolterp]

Not a fact, just an average. It will differ for each individual, and depend on factors like height, weight, ROA, how much of the drug they've absorbed, what kind of opiate they're taking on top, how much of that opiate they're taking, how pure that opiate is, how long they wait before dosing etc.

The OP may be at too low a dose to block all his receptors.

Yeah I was certainly able to get high yesterday but not as high as I would have had i not taken the sub. I'd say 4mgs - 6mgs and I would have been sufficiently blocked.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

I skipped most of the thread but if you did the dope a few hours after sub you don't have to wait anytime to redose. The subs are already in you enough to be on your receptors even if you still got high off d. Sorry i know that's not written very clearly its like this

7am 2mg subs
12pm 1 gram of tar
3pm 2mg of sub

^^Thats straight as long as you give the sub an.hour or two to work before dope, at least in my experience

CORRECT ^^^^^^^^
as long as you did subs firsts and 2 mgs is a good amount it will be and stay on your receptors for at least a day. . you can BaNg DOPE and take more SUBs 30 minutes after that, and you will NOT pwnd yourself cause you already have the subs tightly fight into a many receptors.

and I seriously doubt your dedication for sobriety, your gots lots EXCUSES FOR USES, MAN
and you seem to think sobriety ALL REVOLVES AROUND THIS ONE SMALL PILL
BUT NO YOU WON'T PWND

PS BLOCKING STARTS AROND 8MGS, it's all relative because with enough quantity and quality you can break threw any dose, prolly will blue lip ....after but you get HIGH

[Fat Pie]

Also, I tried staying sober on occasion by blocking myself: didn't work out.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bricks & Stacks]

Yeah i hear you I'm pretty big 6'3 200lbs and it still takes me at least a bun to get thru 2mg. Granted i haven't tried in a while but even before my habit was big 2mg still blocked super hard. Either way i wasn't trying to get at you or nothing i just don't think anybody needs 12mg but maybe its just people i know cuz I've never met anybody that didn't get blocked from 8mg

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Not a fact, just an average. It will differ for each individual, and depend on factors like height, weight, ROA, how much bupe they've absorbed, what kind of opiate they're taking on top, how much of that opiate they're taking, how pure that opiate is, how long they wait before dosing etc.

The OP may be at too low a dose to block all his receptors (a fact I don't think he's considered).

SORRY PIE -IT'S NOT AN AVERAGE -IT IS BULLSHIT THESE Drs. HAND OUT BUT DON;T KNOW A FUCKING THING
HEIGHT AND WEIGHT HAS NOTHING TOO DUE WITH THE BRAINS MUs
THAT WHERE IT ALL TAKE PLACE
LIKE I SAID 8MGS IS ABOUT TOTAL BLOCKAGAGE FOR 98%

--- auto merge ---

Also, I tried staying sober on occasion by blocking myself: didn't work out.

Just my 2 cents.

PIE DID YOU REASD MY STATEMENT-
it's all relative because with enough quantity and quality you can break threw any dose,

your gettig good dope

[Wolterp]

CORRECT ^^^^^^^^
as long as you did subs firsts and 2 mgs is a good amount it will be and stay on your receptors for at least a day. . you can BaNg DOPE and take more SUBs 30 minutes after that, and you will NOT pwnd yourself cause you already have the subs tightly fight into a many receptors.

and I seriously doubt your dedication for sobriety, your gots lots EXCUSES FOR USES, MAN
and you seem to think sobriety ALL REVOLVES AROUND THIS ONE SMALL PILL
BUT NO YOU WON'T PWND

PS BLOCKING STARTS AROND 8MGS, it's all relative because with enough quantity and quality you can break threw any dose, prolly will blue lip ....after but you get HIGH

Thanks for being so supportive man. I made a mistake this once and i'm posting about it here. Again I appreciate your encouraging words fucking shit man. Pisses me off.

--- auto merge ---

Thanks for being so supportive man. I made a mistake this once and i'm posting about it here. Again I appreciate your encouraging words fucking shit man. Pisses me off.

I don't think it revolves around a fucking pill... read my post and you'll see I've started seeing a counselor too, and i'm looking to use the sub as a tool to HELP.

And for the record... I was going to update today to say I tossed the remaining dope I bought and took my sub this morning and I have no intention and making the same mistake I made yesterday.

[Fat Pie]

SORRY PIE -IT'SOT AN AVERAGE -IOT IS BUKL]=LLSHIT THESE DOVTIRS HAND OUT BUT DON;T KNOW A FUCKING THING

I actually looked it up, but then again not everything on the web is correct, so I concede.

We can conclude that bupe does block opiate receptors though.

HEIGHT AND WEIGHT HAS NOTHING TOO DUE WITH THE BRAINS MUs
THAT WHERE IT ALL TAKE PLACE

It would affect absorbtion though, wouldn't it. Metabolism?

Again, could be wrong, just trying to explain why those on subs sometimes have radically different experiences.

LIKE I SAID 8MGS IS ABOUT TOTAL BLOCKAGAGE FOR 98%

I must be in the lucky 2% then (or unlucky, depending on how you view addiction).

PIE DID YOU REASD MY STATEMENT-
it's all relative because with enough quantity and quality you can break threw any dose,

your gettig good dope

Well, I get dope that satisfies me certainly, but I did find that at 14mg I wasn't feeling anything, and I would have had to spend a fuckload to break through that presumably ('cos I take q-gram shots already).

Sorry for the lanky mult-quotes.