I love potentiating opiates with a *tiny* dose of buprenorphine

[PoppyLlama]

So first off, it is known that when it comes to using buprenorphine, the less you use, the better, because the metabolite norbuprenorphine is a full agonist rather than a mixed agonist/antagonist, AND it is stronger. So I usually snort like .2mgs of bupe at a time (I break off a tiny chunk of a 2 mg pill and snort it)

It is also known, that a small dose of buprenorphine, enough to bond to a small percentage of opiate receptors but nowhere near enough to fill them all up, can actually potentiate (cause other opiates to feel stronger at smaller dosages regardless of ROA)

This has recently become my favorite form of potentiation, especially if I snort .2mgs if bupe, then like 8 hours later (once the naloxone has fully worn off and the norbuprenorphine has been created and bonded to my receptors) if I even pop like 5 mgs of oxy and a 350 mg soma I can catch a nice buzz. Nothing special, but with my tolerance its a MIRACLE that 5mgs of oxy and a soma will even do anything other than make my pain level go down a notch or two.

What are your experiences with this? It takes a little bit to get the hang of, but I'm tellin ya, for someone who normally takes well over 100mgs oxy for recreation, (I try to keep my tolerance low and is on fentanyl patches for a daily pain med to get a buzz off 5 mgs of oxy (and a soma), theres gotta be somethin worthwhile goin on. I wish there were more studies about this, and I would really like to come across some.

I wonder if it's possible that wearing one of those buprenorphine patches could help potentiate other opiate pain med regimens by quite alot? The potentiation effects seems to be quite profound, at least for me, and I know some other people who have tried it and been amazed as well. What are your thoughts? Experiences? Trolls? (jk, fuck off lol)

[Junkette]

I had an experience, and this only happened once mind you, where I took .5mg bupe and 12 hours later took 30mgs of oxyc and was high as fuck. I figured it was a fluke.

[mainline]

So first off, it is known that when it comes to using buprenorphine, the less you use, the better, because the metabolite norbuprenorphine is a full agonist rather than a mixed agonist/antagonist, AND it is stronger. So I usually snort like .2mgs of bupe at a time (I break off a tiny chunk of a 2 mg pill and snort it)

It is also known, that a small dose of buprenorphine, enough to bond to a small percentage of opiate receptors but nowhere near enough to fill them all up, can actually potentiate (cause other opiates to feel stronger at smaller dosages regardless of ROA)

This has recently become my favorite form of potentiation, especially if I snort .2mgs if bupe, then like 8 hours later (once the naloxone has fully worn off and the norbuprenorphine has been created and bonded to my receptors) if I even pop like 5 mgs of oxy and a 350 mg soma I can catch a nice buzz. Nothing special, but with my tolerance its a MIRACLE that 5mgs of oxy and a soma will even do anything other than make my pain level go down a notch or two.

What are your experiences with this? It takes a little bit to get the hang of, but I'm tellin ya, for someone who normally takes well over 100mgs oxy for recreation, (I try to keep my tolerance low and is on fentanyl patches for a daily pain med to get a buzz off 5 mgs of oxy (and a soma), theres gotta be somethin worthwhile goin on. I wish there were more studies about this, and I would really like to come across some.

I wonder if it's possible that wearing one of those buprenorphine patches could help potentiate other opiate pain med regimens by quite alot? The potentiation effects seems to be quite profound, at least for me, and I know some other people who have tried it and been amazed as well. What are your thoughts? Experiences? Trolls? (jk, fuck off lol)

I'm not too sure the norbupe theory is actually correct, although many people think it is. It may have something to do with some analgesia/euphoria, but i don't think it's doing what most people think. I honestly don't think it's the full on reason for the "less is more" phenomenon(although I AM in the class of less is more with bupe) It seems not many people actully study up on norpbupe. I don't either,not much anyway. I'm skeptical if "less is more" has much to do with norbupe. Glad whatyou're doing works for you though.


Also, read up on LDNT, or "Low dose Naltrexone Theory" or something like that. I hear it works well at potentiating opiats/oids. I know some people here have done it/do it. The idea scares me...., lol.


Glad you're having fun and are able to feel good easily!

[Spork]

The norbuprenorphine thing depends on your liver enzymes too, which vary between people significantly.

[hansardo]

This is risky.. but i hear from others (maybe doc diesel?) that some are pretty certain the naloxone is less active when snorted or injected. Sometimes it has worked, once I ended up with some bad butt water from the pwd.

Just dont ever eat it or cheek it, i.e. a strip or something. then you may end up sick and pissed.

[Spork]

The naloxone DOES make a difference in the euphoria between subutex and suboxone. There have been studies on the subjective euphoria between the two, and subutex had clearly more euphoria.

[hansardo]

Well yeah, Im dumb spork. I wasnt realizing he was talking subutex and not suboxone. Sorry guys. Bleh... too many benzos tonight. been a rough day. Im maintaining on sub strips and its really not working for me... too much leftover legit pain.

Wait no. I'm just totally stupid.

Forget I posted.

*selfdisgust* wont happen again. *going to bed*

[tui]

unreal

[hansardo]

Me, tui? I'm sorry I hate posting when I'm in idiot mode.

[tui]

The naloxone DOES make a difference in the euphoria between subutex and suboxone. There have been studies on the subjective euphoria between the two, and subutex had clearly more euphoria.

I have heard of non-opiate tolerant people getting a nice high from suboxone. But I'm pretty certain anyone with a habit can expect lees than zero euphoria from suboxone. You'd get more euphoria from a banana than from suboxone ime.

I know doctor diesel has had some luck (although erratic) enjoying trams + subs.

I'm interested to see if anyone else has has POTENTIATING effects like the OP. Lucky bastard.


EDIT: Nah Hansardo, that was directed at the OP

[hansardo]

Yeah, I've just not had much success. Waiting til the naloxone wears off just seems so risky and asking for pwd.

I dunno. I can see how 'tex would work. But this just seems like a good way to feel bad. Lucky OP for makin it work. Although a couple of times, like I kinda mentioned, the suboxone I took early in the day did seem to boost my 30mg oxy in the evening... i was really hurting, the subs dont cover my pain well enough, but it didn't last long and I felt like I generally wasted it with the exception of like 20 minutes.

I dunno. Maybe doc will post on this one.

[limitless_euphoria]

Hey PL, how are you?

I'm one of the buprenorphine experts around here.

It's hard to get proper oral absorption for such low doses.

To be effective, with generic Roxanne bupe, you take a crumb, dilute it in water, I suck it up with an oral syringe through the cotton, clean the spoon/cooker/whatever, squirt it bakck in, drop a tiny cotton in for round 2 to ctch any particles we missed. it should be a clear shot after that.

Please remember, look at Chopstix' thread on his abscess from IM-ing tar. I have provided this as harm reduction for thsoe who intended to try one way or another.

The problem is, when the pieces get smaller (esp. with 8 mg pills) it's hard to get something the right size.

You can also break it up as fine as possible and toot it. That's a little unpleasant but ... if you don't wanna use the rig that's option #2. Remember, you need to have a LOW tolerance, too. If you have been taking 8-16 mg of bupe you've got to cut it down over a period of time.

[chinaski]

I thought naloxone had essentially ZERO nasal/buccal availability. Doesn't it only reach your brain if you shoot it? That's always made the most sense to me, but I don't have any subutex to compare with so no first hand experience... but I can see how a tiny amount of pure buprenorphine might do what you're talking about... you should probably be more clear and say if you're snorting suboxone or subutex (instead of just saying 'bupe'). You bring up naloxone so you imply suboxone -- but why not just say it?

[PoppyLlama]

well I always felt that the norbuprenorphine theory held true. Back in the day when I could get a buzz off suboxone I always felt like I would snort it, and get a sort of mediocre feeling off of it, and then a couple hours later I would have a nice buzz.
Which seemed to fit in with buprenorphine being metabolized into norbuprenorphine, since it is the main metabolite of buprenorphine, and an active metabolite at that. It is made by N-dealkylation by the CYP450 3A4 is the primary enzyme responsible for this. So if anyone is already on an inhibitor of CYP3A4 it would make sense that they would metabolize less of the BUP into NBUP, however could a dose of a significant inducer of CYP3A4 help metabolize more into NBUP?

And yes, naloxone has little to no buccal or intranasal bioavailability, it is really only their to deter injection users from getting a 'rush' off IVing the medication.
I will admit though, sometimes the suboxone potentiation is a little hit or miss. But at least for me, it always felt that it was a hit more often than a miss. Sometimes I felt like I just fucked up my dose, but not too often. Most of the time I feel like I dose a little bit more, I'm not sure why last night was so awesome but I definitely snorted .2 suboxone at 10AM then took my oxy and soma at 8 PM, it seemed significant, maybe not though.

[Spork]

I was discussing this very thing with a friend earlier this evening. He is prescribed carbamazepine, which is a strong inducer of CYP 3A4. I wonder what the possibility of it causing enough buprenorphine to be converted to norbuprenorphine to allow a tolerant person to get a real buzz from suboxone.

Also, as far as the naloxone not being orally bioavailable thing:

"Naloxone, in the SUBOXONE formulation, had no clinically significant effect when administered by the sublingual route, although blood levels of the drug were measurable." from http://en.diagnosispro.com/drug_info...15-584481.html

[mainline]

well I always felt that the norbuprenorphine theory held true. Back in the day when I could get a buzz off suboxone I always felt like I would snort it, and get a sort of mediocre feeling off of it, and then a couple hours later I would have a nice buzz.
Which seemed to fit in with buprenorphine being metabolized into norbuprenorphine, since it is the main metabolite of buprenorphine, and an active metabolite at that. It is made by N-dealkylation by the CYP450 3A4 is the primary enzyme responsible for this. So if anyone is already on an inhibitor of CYP3A4 it would make sense that they would metabolize less of the BUP into NBUP, however could a dose of a significant inducer of CYP3A4 help metabolize more into NBUP?

And yes, naloxone has little to no buccal or intranasal bioavailability, it is really only their to deter injection users from getting a 'rush' off IVing the medication.
I will admit though, sometimes the suboxone potentiation is a little hit or miss. But at least for me, it always felt that it was a hit more often than a miss. Sometimes I felt like I just fucked up my dose, but not too often. Most of the time I feel like I dose a little bit more, I'm not sure why last night was so awesome but I definitely snorted .2 suboxone at 10AM then took my oxy and soma at 8 PM, it seemed significant, maybe not though.

Honestly, IV subutex and IV suboxone don't feel any different to me..... lol euphoria. Maybe in that "study" the people werent opi tolerant, (like a test to see how new users/ diverted bupe would affect folks who aren't already junqkeeyz) and they chose tex' cuz the flavor of suboxone made it a less fun experience. Cuz they feel the same to me.

Also, yeah metabolites. The full effects of Methadone take a bit to hit full on. It takes like, 2 hours to peak. Same with sub. Prob has to do with t1/2. Im sure norbupe is guilty of something. i just wouldnt really know. bupe nor norbupe wont even try making me feel gud

[jimmyfingers]

this is nothing new, but is rarely talked about. It has worked for me in the pass as well.

[Count Zero]

I have heard of non-opiate tolerant people getting a nice high from suboxone. But I'm pretty certain anyone with a habit can expect lees than zero euphoria from suboxone. You'd get more euphoria from a banana than from suboxone ime.

I know doctor diesel has had some luck (although erratic) enjoying trams + subs.

I'm interested to see if anyone else has has POTENTIATING effects like the OP. Lucky bastard.


EDIT: Nah Hansardo, that was directed at the OP

Tui, sweetheart, I'd like to talk about those NZ bananas you've been seeing, fuck the suboxone shit. In truth the last time I was in your beautiful country (20 years ago) I got food poisoning in a sushi place and had to resort to some pretty fucking strong codeine syrup to get by, I suspect they don't sell that stuff anymore, it actually worked so I'm sure they took it off the market immediately..they would have in the US anyway.
I successfully potentiate pods with tramadol all the time, works a charm.

[PoppyLlama]

yeah tramadol can be a very good potentiator for other opiates, or nucynta is a good one too. I find that I just like combining opiates together no matter what they are, it always helps the dose and euphoria and shit feel stronger.

but I do notice a nice (albeit small, but still there) buzz off a small bump of suboxone and then an opiate, like today I did another .2 (the last of the pill I had) and now I took a few hydros and I'm feeling pretty good, definitely better than if I hadn't taken the subs.
but subs don't do shit by themselves.

[Import]

I was discussing this very thing with a friend earlier this evening. He is prescribed carbamazepine, which is a strong inducer of CYP 3A4. I wonder what the possibility of it causing enough buprenorphine to be converted to norbuprenorphine to allow a tolerant person to get a real buzz from suboxone.

Also, as far as the naloxone not being orally bioavailable thing:

"Naloxone, in the SUBOXONE formulation, had no clinically significant effect when administered by the sublingual route, although blood levels of the drug were measurable." from http://en.diagnosispro.com/drug_info...15-584481.html

The naloxone doesn't have any effect, no matter HOW you take suboxone. It just can't compete with bupes binding affinity. The naloxone is a fucking joke.

Hansardo- It would've been the bupe, not the nlx that put you into PWD.

[miked138]

I once had a similar experience to the OP, with subs, i was supposed to be taking them, but wasn't, anyway i had a dr appointment one day to get another script for subs (wanted to stock up just in case) so i waited till i was sick the morning of my appointment and took a small piece of sub, just so it would show in a UA that i was at least taking it and trying, so i took that small piece, went to my appointment, then about 7-8 hours after taking the sub, i took some oc because i could again, and my normal dose at that time felt way ,way stronger than it normally did. so i think there is something to it, but personally i hate subs and the way they make me fell so much it just was never worth trying to repeat the experiment.