NA-- Cult or Cure?




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Thread: NA-- Cult or Cure?

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    Default NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Title says it all. I am not sure if 'cure' is the right word to use, but you get the idea. Personally, I think it's a cult. In all the different NA groups I have been to, I have never really gotten anything out of them. In fact I think they were detrimental to my recovery. For me, addiction isn't a moral failing, the whole giving yourself up to a higher power thing always struck me as filling the same void that drugs did in those who swear by it. Again this is just my opinion, but to me sobriety can't achieved by just trying harder. I think for some people NA is more harmful than helpful in that it doesn't really address physiologic change that occurs with long term addiction.

    Anyway, what do you all think. Again if it works for you because you work, that's awesome. I am more interested in hearing what you think of the program.

    “God, but life is loneliness, despite all the opiates, despite the shrill tinsel gaiety of "parties" with no purpose, despite the false grinning faces we all wear. And when at last you find someone to whom you feel you can pour out your soul, you stop in shock at the words you utter - they are so rusty, so ugly, so meaningless and feeble from being kept in the small cramped dark inside you so long. Yes, there is joy, fulfillment and companionship - but the loneliness of the soul in its appalling self-consciousness is horrible and overpowering.”
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    It's a society, not a cult or cure...

    NA/AA isn't anywhere near perfect but has helped countless addicts live for something bigger than themselves. It can be whatever you make of it really.

    As far the physiologic changes, NA can be used in tandem with other treatments. I go and am on MMt, I just keep that to myself...
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    AA worked better for me i hate NA meetings...but the steps are where it is at for real...they CHANGED MY LIFE AND MY OUTLOOK ON LIFE for real...i use pain pills again but i am a chronic pain sufferer.....problem was i was using opiates to drown out life and emotional problems i was having and not dealing with....like real painful things i will not get into....then all the guilt of stealing from people and fucking over family..the steps helped me fix that and offered me a way to "maintain" my positive outlook on life as well as take meds......but the min i stop my routine...i fall back to the land of TAKING MORE THAN PRESCRIBED FOR THE WRONG REASON.......I GO TO A MEETING A WEEK SOMETIMES MORE...I STILL USE THOUGH THERAPEUTICALLY......PROBLEM IS THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN THE TWO AND IT HAS TO BE MONITORED CLOSELY.......I SAY CULT FUCK EM....AA IS BETTER for me but the steps and therapy is where it is at!!! that 4th and 5th step is a bitch i did two of them but it was like 1000 lbs lifted off my chest!!
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    THe thing I dont like about AA/NA is they say that you dont have to believe in god to be successful in recovery you just have to "have a highger power". Thats great and all but anyone whos gone to meetings knows that while they say that they most certainly dont mean it, they spout off about god all the time god this god that etc. I rarely hear people say today I "prayed to my higher power" its always GOD. They do this because they want to attract only people who believe what they believe and to repel the people who dont share the same beliefs because they know constantly preaching about god scares away the people who dont believe in GOD.

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    The 12 step method ain't perfect,but i believe a lot of folk's problems with it say more about them than the method.

    As they say, "it works if you work it."

    Feel some of you aren't ready/desperate enough to appreciate it.
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubHuman View Post
    THe thing I dont like about AA/NA is they say that you dont have to believe in god to be successful in recovery you just have to "have a highger power". Thats great and all but anyone whos gone to meetings knows that while they say that they most certainly dont mean it, they spout off about god all the time god this god that etc. I rarely hear people say today I "prayed to my higher power" its always GOD. They do this because they want to attract only people who believe what they believe and to repel the people who dont share the same beliefs because they know constantly preaching about god scares away the people who dont believe in GOD.
    yeah i agree with this i definately dont like the whole higher power idea and even if they say it doesnt have to be god its still ridiculous like say my higher powers a polar bear how the fuck is a polar bear going to help me? another thing i hate is the whole your powerless thing i dont beleive in that one bit you have the power to get clean but other than that i dont care. for the people it helps good for them but its just not for me

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Cult

    I always laughed when they would talk about being powerless but turn right around and say it's your fault you're here you CHOSE to use but you can't choose to stop using. Such horse shit. If you really and truly in your heart of hearts want to stop using and know you cant do it anymore, you'll find a way to stop.

    The god thing bugs me a whole lot too. I'm a devout atheist, as far as I'm concerned there is/never was a god and people chose to believe in this crazy idea to make them more comfortable with death. My IOP counselor would always say 'what do you like to do?' "besides shooting up? I like to climb I guess" 'well thats your higher power! Nature and the rock and blah blah blah' get the fuck out of ere with that bullshit. The rock I climb on isn't my higher power, it's a fucking ROCK.

    Sorry, I just really think there's better ways of going about it. If it works for you, great, I'm not knockin you. It's just not for me.

    /rant
    "we will NEVER go extinct. we're the species that invented Smirnoff ice! and opium! and morphine! which we invented as a cure for opium addiction. and heroin! which we invented to cure the morphine addicts. and then methadone! which we came up with to cure the heroin junkies. my point is, there's no problem too fat for mankind to tackle."

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by nick View Post
    The 12 step method ain't perfect,but i believe a lot of folk's problems with it say more about them than the method.

    As they say, "it works if you work it."

    Feel some of you aren't ready/desperate enough to appreciate it.
    truest shit i have ever heard. you really do get out what you put into it, if you want it bad enough it is possible. OP, have you ever read the book of AA. until you have, you shouldnt really bashthe program, because you really havnt given it a fair chance, especially if you have only been to a couple meetings, and are already starting to call it a cult. in my eyes, a cult takes your freedom, you money, and your sanity, and i dont see AA doing really any of those things.

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomew View Post
    Cult

    I always laughed when they would talk about being powerless but turn right around and say it's your fault you're here you CHOSE to use but you can't choose to stop using. Such horse shit. If you really and truly in your heart of hearts want to stop using and know you cant do it anymore, you'll find a way to stop.

    The god thing bugs me a whole lot too. I'm a devout atheist, as far as I'm concerned there is/never was a god and people chose to believe in this crazy idea to make them more comfortable with death. My IOP counselor would always say 'what do you like to do?' "besides shooting up? I like to climb I guess" 'well thats your higher power! Nature and the rock and blah blah blah' get the fuck out of ere with that bullshit. The rock I climb on isn't my higher power, it's a fucking ROCK.

    Sorry, I just really think there's better ways of going about it. If it works for you, great, I'm not knockin you. It's just not for me.

    /rant
    I don't think your counselor means your higher power is literally a rock-well,I hope he doesn't.Maybe he means it's the sense of adventure and conquest,
    I yam what I yam-Popeye.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    It's neither a cult nor a cure.

    There is NO cure for the disease of addiction. I'm 35 days clean, and I'm the same addict I was when I was using. I'm just learning how to use tools in the program to help me stay clean. Just for today. I have no idea what tomorrow will bring. A member of my homegroup just went back out and used after 23 years clean. None of us are impervious to relapse.

    As for the spirituality thing, I too was a card carrying atheist. My favorite saying (and I've used it here) was "I'll respect your crutch once you stop beating me with it".

    It's not like I'm a fucking bible thumper within a month...I still don't buy the whole Judeo-Christian ethic, and I still hate organized religion. The difference now is I'm open to the fact that I have a higher power now. In fact the basic text doesn't mention that you have to believe in "God", it just requires "an open-mindedness to spiritual principles". There's Buddhists and Muslims at my meetings, and even more folks that have no idea WHAT to call their higher power...myself included. I like to call him/her GUS...God of my UnderStanding. I know that if I follow these steps, and truly apply them in my life, the miracle of a spiritual awakening will happen, it'll just take time. I didn't get addicted in a day, so I'm prepared for it to take a while.

    How do I know I have a higher power? Because I didn't have to use today, and that's a fucking miracle. Left to my own devices, I'll use. Instead I choose to lean on the folks in the rooms for support, strength and knowledge, and try to give back the same. We only keep what we have by giving it away. There's a big difference between being clean and being in recovery, mind you. Sure an addict can get clean of their own volition, but have they really changed their thinking? Their way of life? Have they let go of the emotional baggage?

    I thought by definition a cult used fear tactics to draw a member in and gave direct consequences to those who tried to escape or flee. By that rationale, NA is hardly a cult. People come to and leave the rooms freely. All that's required is a desire to stop using. That's it.

    That said, I think court mandated NA is bullshit. An addict is only ready to get clean once they're ready, not when the government tells them to. Not to say some members haven't taken court mandated NA and run with it...but I still think the choice should be up to the addict. Some members are clearly just there to get a paper signed. Some show up nodding their faces off. You DO have a choice...you can get whatever you want out of NA.

    I'm choosing recovery.

    "it's gonna be uncomfortable in the normalcy household tonight." - LorTabitha

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    It has aspects of both. Namely the complete surrendering of yourself to their "god", and one thing that's very indicative of a cult IMO: the fact that they say it's the ONLY WAY. Anything else will result in jails, institutions, or death. If you leave your spirit guide you will die, etc. but it has helped people get clean, too.
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    It has aspects of both. Namely the complete surrendering of yourself to their "god", and one thing that's very indicative of a cult IMO: the fact that they say it's the ONLY WAY. Anything else will result in jails, institutions, or death. If you leave your spirit guide you will die, etc. but it has helped people get clean, too.
    With all due respect Indy, you've got it all wrong.

    You don't have to surrender to any one particular God in NA. You just have to have an open-mindedness to spiritual principles, and a desire to stop using. That's it. Yes, the third step reads "We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God As We Understood Him", but that's not "God", "Buddha", "Mohammed" or "ZodiacKiller" (heh), unless that's who one chooses to call him. My higher power right now IS the presence I feel in the rooms...the "group conscience" as I call it.

    The only thing we mention about "jails, institutions and death", is that's where active addiction usually leads people. It's not to frighten people, it's the truth. People have experienced all three all over this board.

    I think if someone were to share "If you don't believe in MY God, you're going to DIE!!!" at one of my meetings, they would be laughed out of the room. Not to say all people in NA have the message down 100%...this is why we place principles over personalities.

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofnormalcy View Post
    With all due respect Indy, you've got it all wrong.

    You don't have to surrender to any one particular God in NA. You just have to have an open-mindedness to spiritual principles, and a desire to stop using. That's it. Yes, the third step reads "We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God As We Understood Him", but that's not "God", "Buddha", "Mohammed" or "ZodiacKiller" (heh), unless that's who one chooses to call him. My higher power right now IS the presence I feel in the rooms...the "group conscience" as I call it.

    The only thing we mention about "jails, institutions and death", is that's where active addiction usually leads people. It's not to frighten people, it's the truth. People have experienced all three all over this board.

    I think if someone were to share "If you don't believe in MY God, you're going to DIE!!!" at one of my meetings, they would be laughed out of the room. Not to say all people in NA have the message down 100%...this is why we place principles over personalities.


    ^^word!! like i am a Buddhist but i do believe spiritual principles and god are two different things that CAN work well together...the spiritual principles in my understanding are love yourself and others...be open minded --be as selfless as possible--(addicts have a very selfish streak--be honest in all of your affairs and to your self.......these all take years of practice and like someone ^ up there said their buddy relapsed after 23 years it happens when you stop doing what you are supposed to be doing and a "relapse" don't have to be picking up a drug...it is the behavior...when you allow the lying cheating thieving scumbag back....the drug ain't far behind...you relapse b4 you pick up.....and for people like me on pain mgt it is especially hard cause i wanna run to the "crutch" for EVERY problem instead of just physical pain...i have developed a complicated "christian free" program and if i go to a meeting..i take the good shit i here and leave the bad shit at the door.....


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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Neither

    It's not the end all be all cure to getting clean. It's a great stepping stool, don't get me worng. I just don't feel like it's the only tool out there to living a clean life.

    I'm an atheist and I managed to get 10 yrs clean. There's no rule to say you have to follow every suggestion/idea given. Take what will work for you and leave all the other bullshit behind.

    Now as a CPPer, I find it very hard to walk that line of active addiction and pain patient. However, I find that when my pain is undertreated I tend to act more like an addict than when it's not. Go figure.

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    I attended AA and NA for about 5 years and will have to give AA credit for saving my life. I was in such terrible shape that I would have been dead if I hadnt availed myself of help offered in getting dried out. So far as staying off the booze AA was worthless to me. Sitting around listing to peoples endless drinking stories gave me a constant reminder of things I was doing my best not to think about. It's good to rememberthat The Founder, BillW. ,refered to those who had recoverED from Alcoholism, not disease ridden terminal Alcoholics recoverING

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    It's easy to look at NA/AA as a "cult" or "brainwashing" if you don't really want sobriety. Really it's just a way to become part of a community of sober people helping each other out. I mean you take from it what you want and leave the rest. It's an option that we all should be grateful to have. When your life has fallen apart and your ass is on fire it's a starting point. What i don't agree with is court mandated attendance, it takes away from the value of NA. Having some kid sit there texting and leaving every 5 minutes because he doesn't want to be there doesn't do any one any good. It's not a cure but it's a proven course of action to follow if you want to try and get sober.

    "Many of us know that 1 is to many and 1000 is never enough"
    "We had to have drugs at all cost, we lived to use and used to live"

    That rings pretty fucking true.

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post

    "Many of us know that 1 is to many and 1000 is never enough"
    "We had to have drugs at all cost, we lived to use and used to live"

    That rings pretty fucking true.
    My favorite reading is Just For Today:

    "JUST FOR TODAY my thoughts will be on my recovery, living and enjoying life without the use of drugs.
    JUST FOR TODAY I will have faith in someone in N.A. who believes in me and wants to help me in my recovery.
    JUST FOR TODAY I will have a program. I will try to follow it to the best of my ability.
    JUST FOR TODAY through N.A. I will try to get a better perspective on my life.
    JUST FOR TODAY I will be unafraid, my thoughts will be on my new associations, people who are not using and who have found a new way of life. So long as I follow that way, I have nothing to fear."

    Pretty much sums it up for me.

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    You know what fucking bugs me about going to x/A meetings? All the stupid rituals that get read every fucking meeting.. "how it works," "why we are here," the silly group prayers, yadayadayada.. I've had close friends get over a decade and I can't fathom how she dealt with that shit a bajillion times. I will say x/A probably saved her ass; at 16 she was shooting speed and trying to jump off a building in Hollywood, now she's a 30something MILF who might hit a spliff or have a glass of wine a few times a year, but she doesn't shoot dope anymore and never will, she walked away a "relapse." It just depends on what you really need from it.

    The same group that she attended, or one of them, seriously fucked up another close friend over relationship shit which no matter how much you discourage it, is gonna happen anyway.

    I've been to some meetings that were tolerable and I've been to some that I'm not sure how I made it through. I have a hard time with a lot of the principles but the door is always there if I need it, it's saved my ass a couple times despite my misgivings about it..
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by ausativa View Post
    truest shit i have ever heard. you really do get out what you put into it, if you want it bad enough it is possible. OP, have you ever read the book of AA. until you have, you shouldnt really bashthe program, because you really havnt given it a fair chance, especially if you have only been to a couple meetings, and are already starting to call it a cult. in my eyes, a cult takes your freedom, you money, and your sanity, and i dont see AA doing really any of those things.
    I have read the book, I have been to more meetings than I care to remember, and like I said I think it's just great if it works for you (or anyone else). Personally, to me it's like a new age religion, perhaps 'cult' is the wrong word. Considering that the long term success rate for NA is estimated to be between 2 and 5 percent, I feel like people are duped putting their all into it, and then when doesn't work it's because 'they just weren't being honest with themselves'.

    “God, but life is loneliness, despite all the opiates, despite the shrill tinsel gaiety of "parties" with no purpose, despite the false grinning faces we all wear. And when at last you find someone to whom you feel you can pour out your soul, you stop in shock at the words you utter - they are so rusty, so ugly, so meaningless and feeble from being kept in the small cramped dark inside you so long. Yes, there is joy, fulfillment and companionship - but the loneliness of the soul in its appalling self-consciousness is horrible and overpowering.”
    - Sylvia Plath

    If I treated someone else the way I treat myself, I'd be in jail. - Of Montreal

  20. #20
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by pullmyhair View Post
    Considering that the long term success rate for NA is estimated to be between 2 and 5 percent, I feel like people are duped putting their all into it, and then when doesn't work it's because 'they just weren't being honest with themselves'.
    I love it when people "estimate" the success rate of NA.

    We keep no member lists, and adhere to strict anonymity, so how would one go about estimating the success rate?

    Also, if a member relapses, it's not because they weren't being honest with themselves, it's because they weren't working an honest program. There's a difference.

    "it's gonna be uncomfortable in the normalcy household tonight." - LorTabitha

  21. #21
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    Needle Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    i learned three things at aa about quittin u need to change/avoid 3 things...people...places and things

    people you used with avoid

    places you used/scored at..avoid

    things that trigger use..avoid

    quiitins easy its the stayin sober/clean is hard part
    "I grew up, went into rehab
    they said son you're gonna be a new man
    'I said thank you very much
    can I borrow fifty bucks."

    ..Layne Staley/Alice In Chains



    "Spoof, dope, crank, creep, bomb, spank, shit, bang, zip, tweak, chard. Call it what you will it's all methamphetamine. That's what I'm here for."
    - The opening line from the movie Spun

  22. #22
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by chopstix View Post
    You know what fucking bugs me about going to x/A meetings? All the stupid rituals that get read every fucking meeting.. "how it works," "why we are here," the silly group prayers, yadayadayada.. I've had close friends get over a decade and I can't fathom how she dealt with that shit a bajillion times.
    You know what bugged me about being in active addiction? All the stupid fucking rituals that we junkies perpetuate every fucking day..."wake up sick", "go hunt for dope", "prep your DOC", "get well (high if you're lucky)", "wash, rinse, repeat", yadayadayada...I've had close friends doing this for over a decade and I can't fathom how they deal with that shit a bajillion times.

    At least my rituals give me hope.

    "it's gonna be uncomfortable in the normalcy household tonight." - LorTabitha

  23. #23
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    I was introduced to 12 step in NYC in '85. Participated in the transformation of Pills Anonymous to Drugs Anonymous & helped in the Metro area growth of Cocaine Anonymous. Met the first wife in the 79th Street Work Shop (meetings around the clock) on NYC's upper east side. NA had the HOW club down in St Marx Place.

    To me Metro area NA was more Guns & Guts... a lot of what I called blood spitting contests among members...when I was going to a lot of meeting I alwats kept a healthy dose of AA with the thought that the grand daddy of them all had the most maturity and I was able to connect more on a social economic level...

    A lot of people do the 12 step thing cafeteria style...they take what they need & leave the rest behind. It is very true that it works if you work it. The program can be a very powerful outline for living, the fellowship/the people can be as fucked as real world social communities. If you connect with the right people one can find some great, caring, people along their journey... After all in a way 12 step groups are microcosms of society - a reflection of the world as it is.

    --- auto merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofnormalcy View Post
    You know what bugged me about being in active addiction? All the stupid fucking rituals that we junkies perpetuate every fucking day..."wake up sick", "go hunt for dope", "prep your DOC", "get well (high if you're lucky)", "wash, rinse, repeat", yadayadayada...I've had close friends doing this for over a decade and I can't fathom how they deal with that shit a bajillion times.

    At least my rituals give me hope.
    That's very funny.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

    everything I say is completely or mostly fiction and made up - basically the ramblings of an aging moron that has seen too much, felt too much & heard too much -
    See me, feel me, touch me....healing...slo 'n ez get's there.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofnormalcy View Post
    I love it when people "estimate" the success rate of NA.

    We keep no member lists, and adhere to strict anonymity, so how would one go about estimating the success rate?

    Also, if a member relapses, it's not because they weren't being honest with themselves, it's because they weren't working an honest program. There's a difference.
    The high end of that range is based on AA/NA's own membership surveys. Look it up.

    Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are those who cannot or will not give themselves completely to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. A.A. Big Book, 3rd & 4th Editions, William G. Wilson, page 58.

    I am honestly happy that NA is going well for you. But personally, I think the 12 step model is out dated, and is essentially as effective as no treatment (again, look it up).

    “God, but life is loneliness, despite all the opiates, despite the shrill tinsel gaiety of "parties" with no purpose, despite the false grinning faces we all wear. And when at last you find someone to whom you feel you can pour out your soul, you stop in shock at the words you utter - they are so rusty, so ugly, so meaningless and feeble from being kept in the small cramped dark inside you so long. Yes, there is joy, fulfillment and companionship - but the loneliness of the soul in its appalling self-consciousness is horrible and overpowering.”
    - Sylvia Plath

    If I treated someone else the way I treat myself, I'd be in jail. - Of Montreal

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    the mantras freak me out a bit, but whatever works for you.


    You humans love your pain, don't you, you just love being in it.

    You even consider it a virtue, cry the most at a funeral, you must be the best person.

    You promise to never forget each other, you promise to feel the sting of loss forever.

    Because for ya'll, forever is just the blink of an eye, your lives are pathetically brief.

    When we say forever, we have to mean it, so we move past our pain,

    we heal, we move on, because pain, is a worthless emotion

  26. #26
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofnormalcy View Post
    You know what bugged me about being in active addiction? All the stupid fucking rituals that we junkies perpetuate every fucking day..."wake up sick", "go hunt for dope", "prep your DOC", "get well (high if you're lucky)", "wash, rinse, repeat", yadayadayada...I've had close friends doing this for over a decade and I can't fathom how they deal with that shit a bajillion times.

    At least my rituals give me hope.
    Firstly, no, I don't know what bugged you nor do I really care, but given the lippy note of your post, Ima respond.

    You can take that silly blue book you've got next to the chip on your shoulder and shove it sideways up your ass with your bullshit defensive attitude. I guarantee you I've (directly and indirectly) been through a fuck of a lot more in and out of xA than you're likely to see for a long, long time; so go smoke up your silly attitude in a BB circle jerk with the rest of the lemmings and their nasty fucking coffee and cheap ass cookies.

    The people who're active in the program and hang out on this board don't talk much about the program, invariably it just causes strife. I'm sure that's a bit of a stretch for you to comprehend, but I bet if you call your sponsor RIGHT FUCKING NOW, they'll be able to explain it all in terms you can wrap your brain around. If they don't pick up the phone cos they're 13th stepping the latest newcomer, then either go find yourself a newcomer or break out the journal; in the meantime, drop the butthurt towards anyone that doesn't see eye-to-eye with you about the benefits of AA on a junkie forum..

    You're a bright one, aren't you??
    All posts made under the user account 'Chopstix' are exercises of creative fiction and in no way represent fact or truth. The user account 'Chopstix' is open to multiple authors with a common interest in lawful research and authoring fiction; and as such, no single user is responsible for the entirety of the post content of this account. No content may be reproduced in any form or fashion via any medium whatsoever unless specified with written and notarized permission of the original post author, without exception. Got that? Good! Have a bitchin' day.

    "It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
    Krishnamurti







  27. #27
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by pullmyhair View Post
    Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are those who cannot or will not give themselves completely to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. A.A. Big Book, 3rd & 4th Editions, William G. Wilson, page 58.
    NA is based on the 12 steps and traditions as AA, but they are NOT affiliated at all. I'm not an AA member, therefore I don't follow the Big Book. The NA Basic Text has no such passage.

    Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm really not trying to sound like a recovery-thumper here either...I know some people aren't into it, and that's fine. Some people don't truly have a problem. Some people here are legitimate CPP's that truly need their meds. We're all lucky to have a community like Opiophile to call home.

    I'm just excited about my recovery, but reading my own posts in this thread, I'm coming off like a zealot, and that's really not what I'm about. I'm only 36 days in the program...I have LOTS to learn. I just started working step one.

    Time to call myself on my shit and STFU.

    --- auto merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by chopstix View Post
    Firstly, no, I don't know what bugged you nor do I really care, but given the lippy note of your post, Ima respond.

    You can take that silly blue book you've got next to the chip on your shoulder and shove it sideways up your ass with your bullshit defensive attitude. I guarantee you I've (directly and indirectly) been through a fuck of a lot more in and out of xA than you're likely to see for a long, long time; so go smoke up your silly attitude in a BB circle jerk with the rest of the lemmings and their nasty fucking coffee and cheap ass cookies.

    The people who're active in the program and hang out on this board don't talk much about the program, invariably it just causes strife. I'm sure that's a bit of a stretch for you to comprehend, but I bet if you call your sponsor RIGHT FUCKING NOW, they'll be able to explain it all in terms you can wrap your brain around. If they don't pick up the phone cos they're 13th stepping the latest newcomer, then either go find yourself a newcomer or break out the journal; in the meantime, drop the butthurt towards anyone that doesn't see eye-to-eye with you about the benefits of AA on a junkie forum..

    You're a bright one, aren't you??
    You made a comment about rituals. So did I.

    Then you made a personal attack. I did no such thing.

    "it's gonna be uncomfortable in the normalcy household tonight." - LorTabitha

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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiny_orange_keychain
    You made a comment about rituals. So did I.
    You know something? I'm not an idiot. I noticed both the chip and the book are gone, I bet that hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by needs_a_hug
    Then you made a personal attack. I did no such thing.
    ......and, lemme guess: you wanna another keychain? Keep up the lip, and I'll keep posting as I please.

    Curious: WTF are you doing on this forum with reg date of 2/11 and a month clean anyway??
    All posts made under the user account 'Chopstix' are exercises of creative fiction and in no way represent fact or truth. The user account 'Chopstix' is open to multiple authors with a common interest in lawful research and authoring fiction; and as such, no single user is responsible for the entirety of the post content of this account. No content may be reproduced in any form or fashion via any medium whatsoever unless specified with written and notarized permission of the original post author, without exception. Got that? Good! Have a bitchin' day.

    "It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
    Krishnamurti







  29. #29
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by chopstix View Post
    You know something? I'm not an idiot. I noticed both the chip and the book are gone, I bet that hurt.



    ......and, lemme guess: you wanna another keychain? Keep up the lip, and I'll keep posting as I please.

    Curious: WTF are you doing on this forum with reg date of 2/11 and a month clean anyway??
    I posted that before I saw your response, chops. I simply looked over the thread and found my own posts annoying. Happens sometimes.

    As for why I'm here, my active addiction goes back long before my join date. I came here using. I came here to share my thoughts, meet some fellow opiophiles, and learn some harm reduction (really helped with my Fent habit). I've met some great people, and gotten some awesome advice (on both using and recovery) from my fellow 'philes.

    I don't have a problem with you. Frankly, I don't care what you think of me. I know who my friends are here.

    Can't speak for you, but my thread derail here is over.

    Cheers.

    "it's gonna be uncomfortable in the normalcy household tonight." - LorTabitha

  30. #30
    Health Professional jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill is one bad motherfucker jill's Avatar
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    Default Re: NA-- Cult or Cure?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofnormalcy View Post
    Can't speak for you, but my thread derail here is over.

    Cheers.
    Sounds like a good plan, all behave, or take it to the PBOYIC
    JILL
    *Disclaimer: Any information provided or requested in this post is not intended to imply or constitute the existence of a patient/professional relationship between any parties. It is for informational purposes only, unless otherwise under written contract with this writer.

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