What would your ideal scenario be?

[Junkette]

So I'm curious people... I know most of us are struggling with a lot of similar issues and I figured I would make a poll to see what everyone thought. Do you ever really see yourself being sober? Would you ever even really want to be sober for the rest of your life? Are you happy on maintenance?

[nick]

Happy(well at peace with) long term morphine maintenance.

In general the actual maintenance drug of choice is subjective and should be what ever enables best compliance.

[More Feen]

I think history would tend to agree with my breakdown:

Most people who have access to clean (medical) opiates, can self-medicate ad libitum for years, if not decades, without serious consequences.

They tend to find a dosing level that is compatible with their lifestyles, and are able to live contently. They rarely increase their doses over time, and their tolerance--while higher than the opiate-naive population--remains moderate.

They suffer no legal or medical complications due to their opiate use.

Some people who have access to opiates will "fiend" on these drugs. Just like some people display little or no self-control when it comes to alcohol comsumption, or cocaine, or any other drug (include oxytocin & sex).

They will continually increase their dose; their tolerance will sky-rocket and they will engage in high-risk behavior to get their DOC into their body. Anytime a person loses control of their actions, there is a high likelihood of legal & medical ramifications.

Cleanliness & sterile preparations take a backseat to getting that high. Violating laws and the risk of arrest or imprisonment are of little concern when fiending.

So Junkette, I think your poll will prolly show people prefer getting their DOC and using it in moderation. It IS possible to live a decent life and take their medicine multiple times a day.

Bupe and Methadone are merely substitutes (I think poor substitutes) for most people's DOC. Better than nothing--yes. Less risk--yes. Life-Stabilizing--yes, but only because obtaining one's DOC often involves risks.

Ideally, we can get by naturally on our body's own production of endogenous chemicals. There are too many examples of a body's failure to provide enough of the right chemicals-- Type I diabetes for example. We live in a time when chemicals are available to help us--whatever our problems or deficiencies may be.

To deny a person the right to live their life in the manner they choose--as long as it hurts no other person--is barbaric.

Did I just ramble??!

M F

[axe]

Ideally, we can get by naturally on our body's own production of endogenous chemicals. There are too many examples of a body's failure to provide enough of the right chemicals-- Type I diabetes for example. We live in a time when chemicals are available to help us--whatever our problems or deficiencies may be.

To deny a person the right to live their life in the manner they choose--as long as it hurts no other person--is barbaric.

Did I just ramble??!

M F

Yeah but it was a great ramble. Absolutely true. Many of us are self-medicating not necessarily to get high, but to make up for low amounts of endogenous chemicals.

axe

[ausativa]

Yeah but it was a great ramble. Absolutely true. Many of us are self-medicating not necessarily to get high, but to make up for low amounts of endogenous chemicals.

axe

and many of us are maintaining on exogenous chemicals because we have fucked our body up with them so bad. i have come to respect my endogenous chemicals.

-ausamothafuckingtiva

[Dolofinell]

Bupe and Methadone are merely substitutes (I think poor substitutes) for most people's DOC. Better than nothing--yes. Less risk--yes. Life-Stabilizing--yes, but only because obtaining one's DOC often involves risks.

Ideally, we can get by naturally on our body's own production of endogenous chemicals. There are too many examples of a body's failure to provide enough of the right chemicals-- Type I diabetes for example. We live in a time when chemicals are available to help us--whatever our problems or deficiencies may be.

To deny a person the right to live their life in the manner they choose--as long as it hurts no other person--is barbaric.

Did I just ramble??!

M F

I agree with M F here, I'm on bupe maintanence and I really like it, I was on MMT for 7 years and liked it, then started getting some side effects so I switched to bupe.

I don't ever see myself being totally opiate free. I tried for about 4 months between 'done and bupe and was miserable. Probably did'nt give it enough time, don't have the patience or "want" to give it enough time, but with maintanence on at least some opiate being a choice I'll stick with one of them for the rest of my life as I see it now.

But a Free choice would be ideal

[Lady Kenmare]

I think history would tend to agree with my breakdown:

Most people who have access to clean (medical) opiates, can self-medicate ad libitum for years, if not decades, without serious consequences.

They tend to find a dosing level that is compatible with their lifestyles, and are able to live contently. They rarely increase their doses over time, and their tolerance--while higher than the opiate-naive population--remains moderate.

They suffer no legal or medical complications due to their opiate use.

Some people who have access to opiates will "fiend" on these drugs. Just like some people display little or no self-control when it comes to alcohol comsumption, or cocaine, or any other drug (include oxytocin & sex).

They will continually increase their dose; their tolerance will sky-rocket and they will engage in high-risk behavior to get their DOC into their body. Anytime a person loses control of their actions, there is a high likelihood of legal & medical ramifications.

Cleanliness & sterile preparations take a backseat to getting that high. Violating laws and the risk of arrest or imprisonment are of little concern when fiending.

So Junkette, I think your poll will prolly show people prefer getting their DOC and using it in moderation. It IS possible to live a decent life and take their medicine multiple times a day.

Bupe and Methadone are merely substitutes (I think poor substitutes) for most people's DOC. Better than nothing--yes. Less risk--yes. Life-Stabilizing--yes, but only because obtaining one's DOC often involves risks.

Ideally, we can get by naturally on our body's own production of endogenous chemicals. There are too many examples of a body's failure to provide enough of the right chemicals-- Type I diabetes for example. We live in a time when chemicals are available to help us--whatever our problems or deficiencies may be.

To deny a person the right to live their life in the manner they choose--as long as it hurts no other person--is barbaric.

Did I just ramble??!

M F

MF: +1!!

I've always enjoyed recreational opiate use, though now I have to take them for CP. But I'm the type who doesn't really get addicted to things. Tried cigarettes, benzos, alcohol, coke, and opies--all very addictive--and I've been able to quit all of them with very little emotional hang-ups. I no longer drink, smoke or do coke and I don't miss it at all. As it is now, I use 100mcg Fent patches and Dilaudids for BT, plus k-pins for sleep/anxiety issues related to pain. But on the days when my pain level is below 4, I go opiate and k-pin free--usually at least 4-5 days each month, sometimes more. I'll take Immodium to deal with the GI symptoms, but just like there are successful social drinkers, there can be "social" opies.

And making the highly personal choice to indulge in a good feeling shouldn't be anyone else's damn business--MF, you really wrote a great rant!!

[Dr. McKay]

I think history would tend to agree with my breakdown:

Most people who have access to clean (medical) opiates, can self-medicate ad libitum for years, if not decades, without serious consequences.

They tend to find a dosing level that is compatible with their lifestyles, and are able to live contently. They rarely increase their doses over time, and their tolerance--while higher than the opiate-naive population--remains moderate.

They suffer no legal or medical complications due to their opiate use.

Some people who have access to opiates will "fiend" on these drugs. Just like some people display little or no self-control when it comes to alcohol comsumption, or cocaine, or any other drug (include oxytocin & sex).

They will continually increase their dose; their tolerance will sky-rocket and they will engage in high-risk behavior to get their DOC into their body. Anytime a person loses control of their actions, there is a high likelihood of legal & medical ramifications.

Cleanliness & sterile preparations take a backseat to getting that high. Violating laws and the risk of arrest or imprisonment are of little concern when fiending.

So Junkette, I think your poll will prolly show people prefer getting their DOC and using it in moderation. It IS possible to live a decent life and take their medicine multiple times a day.

Bupe and Methadone are merely substitutes (I think poor substitutes) for most people's DOC. Better than nothing--yes. Less risk--yes. Life-Stabilizing--yes, but only because obtaining one's DOC often involves risks.

Ideally, we can get by naturally on our body's own production of endogenous chemicals. There are too many examples of a body's failure to provide enough of the right chemicals-- Type I diabetes for example. We live in a time when chemicals are available to help us--whatever our problems or deficiencies may be.

To deny a person the right to live their life in the manner they choose--as long as it hurts no other person--is barbaric.

Did I just ramble??!

M F

This could not be any truer for me.

I am hypothyroid so I need a daily pill for my low thyroid.

I am also hypogonadal (low testosterone levels) - so I need weekly injections of testosterone to feel like a man.

I had an emergency lamenectomey on my spine so I have intense pain that will never get any better and my body can not produce eneough endorphines to help ease the pain- so I need pain medicine to keep my pain level in check along with just keeping me feeling normal since I have been taking opiate pain medicine for about 13 years.

So,
I have to have certain medications or I would be extremely sick and have mental issues and could not do anything productive.

[Just1Fix]

I opted DOC maint, why? I got no damned idea.
1st what the hell is my DOC, opiates yea, but there's so many options- maybe if the doc gave me a menu I could order from every couple days.
2- maintaining kinda sux, its just kind of blehhhh not high, but feeling normal. Maybe I'd try n save up my 'menu' selections & get by on less & like once a week just throwdown...
3- dependence is a biatch no matter how you slice it. Its a burden relying on a substance(mind you, the greatest substance known to all mankind) and going thru the hoops- whether its copping on the streets, dealing with sketchy dealers and sketchier 'friends', CASH is the big liability whether its streets/docs/dealers- and I've worked f/t thru 90% of my addiction and rarely called out 'sick'- can labor thru day 1, day 2- hell no.. There's always 'sick time' no matter how well plotted out our minds are' oh I'll just save 2 bags for the morning' and you wake up with about 3/4's of a bag- or less..
4- Sobriety is quite possibly more of a biatch than dependence is. People freaking suck- there's just no limit or how stupid, insane, self serving, greed driven, and just outright a nuisance.. If I didn't need to deal with people to exist; without living in the forest in the middle of nowhere- sober might be possible...
5- Even if sober or maintaining was possible, we all have learned just how powerful opiates are- and that in and of itself damns us into (ab)using again..

[paups]

I wish I could use heroin every day for the rest of my life, but alas, if I continue to do so I will have to sacrifice pretty much all the other things that I want and enjoy just as much.

It has taken me 15 years to really figure that out.. and it was not an easy decision (even if it seems so--but at least you guys understand..)

I came to realize that dope took away my desire and affection for so many things... nearly everything actually.
Things I adore to do and am really good at.

At first it was financial but then I realized that it was so much more than that. I always had money.. could always get more. The things that made me ME and my life MINE were stuck on pause while I waited..sulked..felt sorry for myself.

The worst was when I could no longer even remember what I used to enjoy.. what I did with time before (and it was a whole lifetime full of amazing things..) but it was SILENCED. Stuck on pause in the inbetween.

Of course I could dream of finding a Columbian DIY Submarine of the coast of FL loaded with a lifetime supply of dope.. but even then.. what would I do without my soul for the rest of my days?

There was a time when dope even took away my ability to see that I had something to live for.. and that is the saddest thing. I was self-aware of it but STUCK in it.. sealed in my own pod of cycle and misery.. when the entire world was outside waiting still.

The world wont wait forever.

Maybe when I'm old and wrinkled and alone and have a house full of memories and nothing to do but sift through them.. I would love to return.

I guess that is my ideal for "someday".. but for now..

Im enjoying the sun on my face, telling the truth and not second guessing it, shitting every day, having orgasms, taking all the time in the world to run and play and be MOTHERFUCKING FREE>..

[Smaxie]

Whoa Pauppie, that was heavy. It is amazing everything that comes rushing in once the veil is finally lifted.

[Slipp]

I wish I could have a doc prescribe strong opiates like 80's of oxy with 8 mg dillys for break thru but that just isn't possible for maintenance so the next best thing in my mind is suboxone because you can have it prescribed at least. It's good so you can do dope for a few days then fall back on the subs when your broke.

[Woody Bear]

I'm in my ideal situation, I'm prescribed a small number of 10mg oxycodone capsules per month and I only use about half of my prescription, the rest I save for emergencies. I've got effective pain relief when I need it, and don't have to worry about being given sub-standard pain relief when I have to go into hospital.

I would like to be given IV oxymorphone ampules, but that's just not going to happen, and I'd rather take oral tablets for pain relief, rather then having to go through the bother of fixing up. I could inject my oxycodone if I wanted to, but it's very rare for unemployed people with mental health problems, who's medical records note that they use illegal drugs, to be given a prescription for controlled drugs. My GP is great, and I feel it would be disrespectful to IV my prescription.

I'd be happy to IV my own morphine, or if I obtain oxycodone some other way, to IV that. But I'd rather just stick to taking my oxycodone orally for the most part, although I do want to do a couple experiments to see if oxycodone freebase smokes better, or what plugging oxycodone feels like. Both of those are a lot of work though, so most of the time I'm just going to take it orally.

[Canis aureus]

I'm on methadone... mostly because it is only opioid possible to get in the bloodstream without sacrifying too much... I mean, all other opioids and opiates involve either crime or continous hassle with doctors, or both. And, methadone works pretty well to me. I don't get

I have used opiates all my adult life and would not stop.

I have talked about my situation quite extensively before, so I don't go in details now. I hate to advocate drugs but I have to say that opiates have always worked for me; I have, for example, studied university degree while using opiates and that went pretty damn well, at least to the point that my economic situation sort of breakedowned, haha.

[nick]

I should point out that IV opiate maintenance is NOT somekinda panacea .It's just another cage-although a very comfy one.

[ausativa]

I should point out that IV opiate maintenance is NOT somekinda panacea .It's just another cage-although a very comfy one.

once again he speaks the truth. shit being in a cage with the best amenities comes down the fact that you are still a slave, in a cage.

[paups]

once again he speaks the truth. shit being in a cage with the best amenities comes down the fact that you are still a slave, in a cage.

My earlier point exactly.

I'll never say "never again" but honestly, my ideal would be to be FREE to CHOOSE.

[poppy]

At my age, a time that is filled with realisation, regret and remorse, a comfy IV diamorphine cage is so very appealing.............I wouldn't even mind being an exhibit in a zoo -'type one addict - heroin, alcohol,.....dangerously unpredictable when unsedated, show's signs of serious mental instability at all times....'
What's the bloody awful song 'too much, too little, too late.....?' that's me.

[strikks]

i was never on any type of maintenance. i am a chronic pain patient and i am prescribed my DOC and i get enough luckily from my doctor....well since i have been home from jail, (where they had me on methadone and ultram for pain) i detoxed off the methadone and stopped the ultram...he put me back on MScontin and norcos which was what he gave me b4 i went to jail ,and i don't know how long it will last,but, i still have not become physically dependent on opiates again...i skip days all the time...anyway i have not taken any opiates for like a week(give or take) and i took 3 suboxone 8mgs tonight and i am fucking HIGH as fuck from them!!! i can't believe it!! i never fukd with bupe except once...i was real hooked on IV morph,like 800mgs or more a day (before i went to prison) and i was sick as a dog for 10 hours i couldn't find ANYTHING ANYWHERE...so i got an 8mg sub off a buddy and took it ,and it made my withdrawal WORSE after 10 hours of "withdrawal"....i couldn't believe it and neither could the guy i got the sub from...so i vowed to NEVER come in contact with them again...then after seeing people in jail getting ripped high off of "butt subs" smuggled into jail up people's keisters, i started to think about them a little...so now i get some off of a girl i am dating that is on sub maintenance and take a few every once in a while... and it is a different type of high...but i get ripped off of them!!??!!?? i don't know how much longer this will last but i think it is very interesting....it makes me kinda wanna try those 7 day bupe pain patches...well my vote would be for my DOC or i guess if i had to be on maintenance...subs.....


love

strikks

[doctor diesel]

i was never on any type of maintenance. i am a chronic pain patient and i am prescribed my DOC and i get enough luckily from my doctor....well since i have been home from jail, (where they had me on methadone and ultram for pain) i detoxed off the methadone and stopped the ultram...he put me back on MScontin and norcos which was what he gave me b4 i went to jail ,and i don't know how long it will last,but, i still have not become physically dependent on opiates again...i skip days all the time...anyway i have not taken any opiates for like a week(give or take) and i took 3 suboxone 8mgs tonight and i am fucking HIGH as fuck from them!!! i can't believe it!! i never fukd with bupe except once...i was real hooked on IV morph,like 800mgs or more a day (before i went to prison) and i was sick as a dog for 10 hours i couldn't find ANYTHING ANYWHERE...so i got an 8mg sub off a buddy and took it ,and it made my withdrawal WORSE after 10 hours of "withdrawal"....i couldn't believe it and neither could the guy i got the sub from...so i vowed to NEVER come in contact with them again...then after seeing people in jail getting ripped high off of "butt subs" smuggled into jail up people's keisters, i started to think about them a little...so now i get some off of a girl i am dating that is on sub maintenance and take a few every once in a while... and it is a different type of high...but i get ripped off of them!!??!!?? i don't know how much longer this will last but i think it is very interesting....it makes me kinda wanna try those 7 day bupe pain patches...well my vote would be for my DOC or i guess if i had to be on maintenance...subs.....


love

strikks

I cannot imagine anybody getting high off subs... let alone 24 damn mgs of the stuff! You must be wired differently, Strikks.


Doc

[LadySniffsTheBlues]

I voted DOC maintenance. I would love to be prescribed enough pain medication to keep my pain under control but unfortunately my doctor refuses to increase my dose. I currently recieve 240 30mg Roxi IR's a month and am supposed to take 2, 4X's daily for pain. Unfortunately, it takes 3 and sometimes 4 for me to get pain relief so I run out 7-10 days before my next script and I end up having to score Subs to stay well until I can get my next script. The entire time I am on Sub's, I am in horrific pain. I have arthritis from top to bottom on my spine, a slipped disc, endometriosis, PCOS, acute gallbladder disease and diverticulosis. It is no fun.

I do not go to a PM doctor, I get my meds from my PCP because I tried a PM doctor once and the hoops they wanted me to jump through were ridiculous. I will admit that I love opiates and if my doctor ever quit writing my scripts, I would be in a world of trouble.

[havok]

I cannot imagine anybody getting high off subs... let alone 24 damn mgs of the stuff! You must be wired differently, Strikks.


Doc

Oh its definitely possible to get high off of subs. You just have to be totally clean off all opiates for at least a few weeks. It is a pretty good high too. Strong and it lasts for almost 24 hours.

I took about 4mg of suboxone when I had been clean for a couple months, and I got really loaded all day. Then I fell asleep, woke up the next morning, and I was still feeling high. No joke, bupe is some strong shit if you have no tolerance. Such a strange drug.

[Benz]

I picked sobriety. I'm not but would really like to be.

Sometimes I think it's a financial problem, not a drug problem but it's not. I know I can achieve much more clear of drugs. Opiates take away many desires you have, that's why they're so effective.

When I'm at the end of my life I have NO intention of refusing large amounts of opiates to ease the transition, why not!? However, in the meantime I believe I personally can achieve an awful lot more if I'm not using gear.

Actually, my use of benzos that always seems to accompany my opiate use, is more detrimental to getting to where I want to be with their ambition/intellect dulling effects.



Benz

[opiophanatic]

i voted sobriety... i mean life is truly better with a clear head... for ME at least...

but i'd like to have legitimate PM because I DO have pretty bad chronic pain. 3-4 on the scale 5 days a week easily if not 7 most weeks.. spiking at random..

but i won't go back on opiates... just can't do it. even those that i see who NEED their meds, such as my dad, struggle with it and HATE that they NEED something so inorganic regularly to make a feeble attempt at a normal life..

so i'm about 70% on the sobriety side and would give the rest of my vote to DOC on a legit script

[reddragon3668]

This is probably one of the most honest and spot on things I've ever read on this site. While each of us are different, this resonates with me. I don't think pure sobriety is in the cards for me in the future, I've got too many chronic pain issues on the table. But, there's a line between medicating physical pain and being consumed with the shit, to the point that you lose yourself and all that is important to you. I am still trying to navigate that divide. ATM, it is a month to month project. I really wish I could settle it once and for all!

I wish I could use heroin every day for the rest of my life, but alas, if I continue to do so I will have to sacrifice pretty much all the other things that I want and enjoy just as much.

It has taken me 15 years to really figure that out.. and it was not an easy decision (even if it seems so--but at least you guys understand..)

I came to realize that dope took away my desire and affection for so many things... nearly everything actually.
Things I adore to do and am really good at.

At first it was financial but then I realized that it was so much more than that. I always had money.. could always get more. The things that made me ME and my life MINE were stuck on pause while I waited..sulked..felt sorry for myself.

The worst was when I could no longer even remember what I used to enjoy.. what I did with time before (and it was a whole lifetime full of amazing things..) but it was SILENCED. Stuck on pause in the inbetween.

Of course I could dream of finding a Columbian DIY Submarine of the coast of FL loaded with a lifetime supply of dope.. but even then.. what would I do without my soul for the rest of my days?

There was a time when dope even took away my ability to see that I had something to live for.. and that is the saddest thing. I was self-aware of it but STUCK in it.. sealed in my own pod of cycle and misery.. when the entire world was outside waiting still.

The world wont wait forever.

Maybe when I'm old and wrinkled and alone and have a house full of memories and nothing to do but sift through them.. I would love to return.

I guess that is my ideal for "someday".. but for now..

Im enjoying the sun on my face, telling the truth and not second guessing it, shitting every day, having orgasms, taking all the time in the world to run and play and be MOTHERFUCKING FREE>..

[Fat Pie]

Bupe maint. works for me. It allows me to live without impeding on my life too much with daily clinic/pharmacy visits, and if I was on my two DOC's all day I'd be a non-functioning zombie, so I'm happy where I am, but am also looking towards a sober future (feel a bit in limbo atm, can't stay where I am or go forward much).

I should point out that IV opiate maintenance is NOT somekinda panacea .It's just another cage-although a very comfy one.

I don't think those of us who are choice-addicts (i.e. non-pain patients; one can argue how much choice comes into addiction, but whether I like it or not, I was the one who chose to take heroin, with all the facts available to boot, and no excuses like poverty or lack of education to explain away my habit) take into consideration this angle enough. I know for a fact that I can turn into a real Hyde on the ole' speedballs; would I want to be like that all day every day, in semi-stasis, half-embalmed? Hell no.

[thatoneguy]

Ideally I would like a system that would allow me to successfully chip like a machine that would dispense my girl and I enough doc to get loaded every couple days.

now that would be neat lol

[Dutch]

#60 Morphine Sulfate SR 60mg and #120 Dilaudid 8mg on a monthly basis would keep me set.

[dolofina]

I voted for Bupe Maintenance, which is what I am on now.
I've tried the other 3 options, and they just don't work for me-
but what works for me may not work for everyone...

-dolofina-

[Snoops]

I went ahead with DOC Maintenance. But, being a realist. And pretty much from first hand experience, I know that even 1000 tablets or amps or bundles of the best dope any which scenario would have to offer, would never ever ever be enough...

Sad as that sounds, it is the Gods to honest. And now that I'm really thinking about it. It is pretty Goddamn sad. And now I'm getting even more sad than I was after reading Pill Clintons Post... Dude, Pill C, I feel for and with ya bro. Sincerely, I do.

This whole ride started as a really great way to self medicate my chronic anxiety and major depression. By either nature or nurture, I'm a total fucking head case.

And I fuckin' hate it.

To add to the raging tempest of a firestorm that is/was my addiction. I got myself into a major head on auto collision, back in May of 09'. Shattered my hip, compound open fractured my femur, collapsed a lung, broke all the ribs on my righthand side, cracked my sternum, and to top it all off... I lost a very near and dear friend of mine in the passenger seat.

And even though the police report of the accident places zero blame on me for the collision, I don't get through one single day since, that I don't think about all of the what ifs and could have and should have and would haves...

I experience daily chronic pain, have had multiple corrective surgeries, and the guilt of being behind that wheel that night, grates on my mind every single day. I have made some progress. But still, I carry so much guilt. So much mental anguish. And that my friends, is why it is never ever going to be enough.

They do not make a non-lethal dose large enough to silence that lone solitary siren screaming from the bottom of my uneasy stomach... And the anxiety. And the daily physical pain. And all the bullshit of legal problems.

A five year tail, trying desperately to run out this paper. Six months left. And now I may be going back again. And if I do, I gotta kick a 110mg daily methadone dose and 4mg and up klonopin daily ritual...

And it scares the shit out of me. Because with everything on my shoulders, and all the burdensome guilt and blame and shame. Toss in a CT detox, in a ruthless environment like jail/possibly prison... And who knows. I may just fucking completely die inside.

I may lose whatever heart I have left in there.

And I read of tales of hope and redemption from friends and posters like Paupie... And I feel ashamed that I don't feel hope. That I don't have an ambition. That I don't amount to much more than a waste of flesh and blood. No dreams. No idea of what possible talents that I posses. No idea of who I am anymore.

I'm sorry everyone. I'm just hurtin' pretty bad inside today. And I don't feel like myself.

If life is but a dream, then I'm having a nightmare.

And if life is a game... Then I'm losing.

This is everything in me... Between Pluto and God. And lately I'm hell bent on feeling nothing.