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Thread: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

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    Opiophorum Member lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough
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    Default Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    I got my prescription filled last month.. It's now been exactly a month since I've gotten my prescription. I called my pharmacy 4 days ahead so they can fax my doctor to let him know that I need a refill.

    In the past, I've never had a problem getting my refill.. I would always get a 30x8mg prescription for a month.. it would have 3 refills on it until my next visit(3 months later)..
    [on each visit, I would receive a drug test that day too.]


    So today is refill day, I call my pharmacy to see if it's ready. They say that they haven't received a fax back.

    I call my Sub Doc's office.. I am told I just need to take a drug test to get my prescription. So I think that means I will go up there, get my sub script and take my drug test (it's on a prescription paper too)..

    I call back to verify, and I'm told I will have to wait until the results get back to get my subutex. I've obviously ran out since it's been a month.

    The lab I go to is on a military base. It takes them about a week to get the results back..
    It's also Friday and I do not have a way to get to the lab. I have to wait til Monday to take my drug test, then wait til next Monday to get my prescription.

    I'll be in withdrawal all Spring Break..

    The Secretary told me it was a law that you have to take drug tests each time you fill your prescription.. I've never had to do this in the past. I asked her what the hell I'm supposed to do about withdrawals.. She just tells me "You'll have to just have withdrawals. I'm sorry."
    She also told me that I needed to call earlier instead of last minute.. I've never had to call the Dr.'s office, only my pharmacy.

    This is ridiculous.. I should just go fucking score.. I'm thinking about just switching to a new sub doc, but I don't know if I would be breaking any laws. [I'd obviously leave this piece of shit place.]

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    well, maybe its time to consider lowering your dose, no one needs 8mg a day.

    get down to 2-3mg a day and save up for times like these. you can do it.

    i promise.

    and about the law requiring a drug test to fill subs, unless your state is different, than this is complete bullshit. my sub doc NEVER drug tested me.
    And when there is no hope...
    ...I smoke some crack I shoot some dope.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    yeah drop yer dose man, 8mg a day is overkill of 99% of users.

    what state are you in btw?
    ive NEVER been required by law to subimt a ua to get a sub script,
    sounds like the doc started a new policy,
    but if thats the case they def should have let you know ahead of time...

    interested to hear more about this.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    That is BULL .........SHIT!
    Go to your pharmacy and explain the situation to you pharmacist.
    If he's compasionate and not a complete dick, they have the authority to supply you with enough medication to get you through until things get settled out.
    Either that, or go into your docs office and say your not leaving until you have enough meds to tide you over.
    That is unethical as hell!

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    you could go to a new sub doc but only if you havn't gotten a prescription for this month yet.if you have that would be "doctor shopping" because you would've obtained 2 prescriptions for a scheduled narcotic that is a months amount of pills in the same month. Otherwise it is completely legal and it sounds like you could go tomorrow to a different sub doc n get ur meds because they havn't refilled ur shit this month.

    N i don't know where you live but i'm about 95% sure that no where in the entire US is it an actual LAW that you have to piss to get your script. thats fucking nonsense. It's at the doctors discretion whether he wants to drug test you or not. That secretary is just making up an excuse. fuck that man that's bullshit in my opinion. I don't think they should be allowed to get you dependent on the bupe n then tell you "oh well you're just going to have to withdraw because we didn't tell you that you would have to be drug tested before we will fill your script." especially when they have never done this before that's really fucked up.

    To me if the doctor had any compassion at all he would approve your refill and wait for the results of your drug test to come back and if you failed then taper you down and boot you out the door! damn that gets me fuckin worked up and it's not even happenin to me bro i cant imagine how you feel right now. I know that the past 2 sub doctors i've been to would never let me withdraw no matter what.

    EVen when I failed like 3 or 4 drug tests in a row they taper'd me down because they cared about their patients and would not knowingly put someone into withdrawal because we are addicts and any sensible doctor knows that they would basically cause a relapse or cause us to commit a crime ( obtaining the bupe off the street) what a dick head. I'm so sorry bro.
    Last edited by Brony; 03-12-2011 at 01:31 PM. Reason: added spacing

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Okay, let's be clear here. Are you in the Armed Forces? They have strict policies but I do not think there is a Federal Law mandating drug testing. Methadone clinics have existed for decades and not all of them are required to drug test. A lot of insurance companies want drug tests for long-term buprenorphine maintenance (example: Anthem BC/BS wants a monthly test and if you fail more than two I believe they will no longer pay). This is second-hand info, however. I suspect if you're getting tested at a lab on a Military Base it isn't State/Federal Law it's either THEIR policy or the doc's B.S. excuse!

    Man, I personally think here's how it should go. If need be, I don't oppose a sub doc being able to test one's urine for opiate metabolites. But considering the whole point of maintenance is to stay off OPIATES specifically, I think it's ridiculous that someone could potentially get kicked out of a sub program because they smoked some pot. Hey, two or three days before an appointment all they have to do is NOT do any methamphetamine, cocaine and/or switch back to subs from their opiate of choice and they're in the clear! Yet, benzos and THC metabolites hang out in your fat cells for quite a while so unless you're 98 pounds soaking wet with a fast metabolism, you're fucked.

    I remember back in the day when Suboxone was so new NOBODY did drug testing EXCEPT perhaps for induction. I think back then it cost a lot to test for buprenorphine—not any more!

    It definitely seems that more and more doctors are starting to test more frequently that haven't necessarily in the past. What's more, with pharmacy reports it's like forget trying to get away with SHIT...

    I'll even go so far as to say, if the person insists they NEED a drug test to keep them straight, FINE! I knew one kid who actually ASKED his doc to test him because he felt he couldn't trust himself without the threat of a test hanging over his head. But, for the rest of us on subs, as long as we're not on methamphetamine, cocaine or opiates, I just don't see the fucking Federal Case, so-to-speak!

    Eh, don't even get me started... but, to the OP, sorry about your tough break. Though, I'm sad to say, your story sounds par for the course during the times in which we live nowadays...
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    yea i agree with you limitless i think the sub clinics should only really care about testing positive for opiates because that's what you're there for ya know,, to get off the opiates but regardless i've been kicked out of 2 clinics thus far for continuing to smoke pot. Both of the places i went also required you to go to family therapy every wednesday and saturday every week while you were being prescribed subs at their clinic and they also drug tested at every visit and would sometimes randomly test you at a therapy session.

    The other place i went to the dr had a tv in all the waiting rooms and the patient rooms that was stuck on the fucking trinity broadcasting network (tv church) and she would flip out if you tried to change the channel lol. another annoying thing was that she would always leave you in the patient room for at least an hour after your scheduled appointment time before she would mosey her fat ass in there to fucking ask me if i had been to NA and if i was going to church n then write me a script and be gone in under 2 mins.

    she never drug tested me for like 6 months straight n then she randomly popped me with one n i didnt fail it for anything but i didnt have the subs n my system (i was planning on relapsing and was waiting for the blocker effect to be gone) and every time after that she drug tested me. I was actually the reason she upgraded her drug test cups to have temp gauges on them cuz i put someone elses piss init once n she knew i had done it but couldnt prove that i did (the piss wasnt warm to the touch) lol
    Last edited by Brony; 03-12-2011 at 01:31 PM. Reason: added spacing

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    Opiophorum Member lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    I'm not in the military. I'm a dependent though. I have Tricare insurance.
    I am always treated as if I'm doing something wrong when I get on the phone with that doctor's office.

    I really can't believe she said "Sorry, you'll just have to withdrawal."
    Honestly, fuck that. I can't even get 5 subutex pills to last me the week it takes for my drug test? There are 8 doctors in my area that have licenses to prescribe subutex so I should just go to one of them..

    Also I have to wait until Monday to take my drug test so I'll have a lovely w/d weekend.. What do they expect an addict to do when he or she is withdrawling? Score some drugs possibly? Take some xanax to relieve the withdrawals?

    I also can't believe I was told that I should have called ahead.. I called my pharmacy on March 7th in the morning. They fax that day. The doctor's office checks in the morning so either the 7th or the 8th they received the fax.. I get no call to say "Hey, you need to take a drug test before this refill." I wait til the day I need to refill, and I have to take a drug test.. and I'll have to wait til Monday because I don't have transportation. I usually just have my prescription delivered by my pharmacy.. (I'm not sure if CVS/Walgreens do that.)

    I live in TX btw.


    Thanks for the responses.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    It's either your doctor's new (?) policy and/or Tricare's. Insurance companies can and do dictate rules with regard to treatment...i.e. they can decline to continue payment for methadone treatment after so many dirty UAs. To my knowledge, no state has specific suboxone rules-- suboxone guidelines are federal.

    Something you might want to consider in the future, especially if you change suboxone roviders is to just pay for your treatment/meds out of pocket. In many ways it is cheaper in the long run and can certainly be much less of a hassle.
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    Opiophorum Member lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Well it costs me $3 for 30 pills;
    It cost me roughly $100 for 30 pills when CVS didn't know I had insurance.. [wasted 2,000 on subs.. filing a complaint]


    Right now this is how I feel:

    My back hurts..
    I'm yawning a lot
    Legs are not hurting like they did in Oxy w/d..
    Don't want to move..
    Overall: Not feeling absolutely terrible.. expect to soon.. keeping my hopes up.

    Took 20mg of Loperamide, not sure if that's a large enough amount..
    Took some xanax. Honestly, they can kick me out, I'll fail for xanax.. I'd rather go to a place where I'm not treated like a piece of shit every time I get on the phone with their secretary.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    I would definitely find a new dr. ASAP. One thing you might try is to call back and ask to speak to the doctor, if the secretary gives you any shit or asks you why, say you would rather explain it to the doctor, and if she presses you, tell her it's none of her business and you aren't comfortable telling her. If that doesn't work, threaten legal action.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by lister40 View Post
    The lab I go to is on a military base. It takes them about a week to get the results back..

    I'll be in withdrawal all Spring Break..

    I asked her what the hell I'm supposed to do about withdrawals.. She just tells me "You'll have to just have withdrawals. I'm sorry."

    This is ridiculous.. I should just go fucking score.. I'm thinking about just switching to a new sub doc, but I don't know if I would be breaking any laws. [I'd obviously leave this piece of shit place.]
    Man, where do I begin...

    Regarding your drug test, that is absolutely ridiculous that you must wait so damn long for the results. At my Bupe Doc's office, you come in, pay, go take the urine test, then you have your appointment with your Bupe Doc and they have the drug test results right then and there. It takes all of 30 seconds to do a urine test, not a week!. I understand you go to a military base, so it's a little different since they must send it out, but still, a week for something that takes 30 seconds, come on!

    Please don't feel guilty as you did absolutely nothing wrong. Either your Bupe Doc or the office should have notified you themselves of the change in policies, and given you plenty of time to take care of it. Hell, my Bupe Doc gave me his PERSONAL CELL PHONE NUMBER, which he answers 24/7.

    As far as running out of your script., I feel for you man, I really, really do. Especially around spring break... I'll say a prayer for you homie.

    As hard as it may be, one thing I recommend you do avoid is scoring dope or w/e, especially if you have been on Bupe for a while and your plan has been to stay clean. You don't want to fall back down that slippery slope...

    If you need something, (which I'm sure you will), try to stay away from strong, full agonists. Ideally, try to find some form of Bupe, and just use 1-2mg daily since you probably will have a limited supply. 1-2mg daily should keep you from getting sick until you can get your next script. If you can't find Bupe, try coping a "weaker" full agonists, such as some Vic's, Perc's, Tramadol, Lop. etc. You won't be "well" on just some Vic's or w/e, but it's certainly better than nothing, and has much less probability than dope or w/e of you getting on a new run, which would be no good.

    Last but not least, CHANGE YOUR BUPE DOC. NOW! That place sounds like it is ran terribly and is not very professional. Try a couple different Bupe Doc's if you have to, you'll know when you found the right one. It took me years to get the current Bupe Doc I have, who is absolutely amazing. Like I said I have his personal cell phone number... that's the kinda Doc one needs.

    O ya and in response the what that bitch-ass nurse said to you about just having to "deal with it". You should have asked her: "Oooo ok, so as a nurse your telling me puking my brains out and shitting my brains out until I'm so dehydrated I end up in the ER, or I possibly have a seizure as a result of your office's negligence is just "something I'll have to deal with", and is a safe situation? (Yes opie WD can cause a seizure).

    People like that drive me motherfucking crazy, NO PERSON who lacks compassion should EVER be in the medical field, especially in the addiction recovery/psychiatric branch of the field.

    Again, I feel for you Lister, and I wish you the best of luck.
    ~ Reality is just a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs. ~ - Robin Williams

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    Opiophorum Member lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Thanks for the support njp.
    I've called some bupe doctors, but since it's a Saturday no one will answer/is there.

    I went to the ER and told them my situation. The Dr. really advised me to not take it anymore. She said to just go through the w/ds then not get back on it again. My stand on this is that I want to be on it for as long as possible.. I don't think I'm ready to get off of my subs.. I also want it there just so I can't relapse.. and if I do relapse, it would take an insane amount of cash to get what I want because of the blocking effect.. Anyway, she said that's your decision.
    She gave me 28 Ultracet, 800mg Ibuprofen, and some nausea medication.. I also got a shot of Toradol..
    I doubt the lab I'm going to is going to test for Tramadol.. even so, I had a prescription for it last month from my regular Dr, and I just got it from the ER. I'll test positive for xanax, but oh well.. If I test positive and they kick me out, I'll go to a new doctor that will treat me right.

    I really appreciate the support guys.

    Oh also, I bought a 96 count bottle of 2mg Loperamide.. I'm about to research this, so I hope that will also help with the w/ds.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    wow, its either your doctors policy or your insurance companies policy, like a few people said. you did nothing wrong at all.

    the sub doc my girl goes to and i went to had a cup filled with Popsicle sticks, if you pull one out that says TEST, you take a drug test. and they only do that if you have certain insurances, plus half the time they forget. the only time you are for sure taking a test is induction.

    plus the tests take 30 seconds or whatever and they tell you right there in office. hell some girl i went to school with has that as her job now and she never went to school for nursing or anything. its not that hard to read an instant test. plus they have the option to send them to a lab if need be. say they want to find out more specifically what you are doing... the lady that used to do it messed my girls up some how(just rumors on what actually happened). and she kept failing for EVERYTHING on the test and it tested for everything out there, stuff you can't even get! after the first 3 times they were giving her problems so after the nurse told us there was nothing they could do, we said we contacted a lawyer and we need her results and all files because he is getting an extensive test done for proof there office screwed up and we were going to take that nurse to court. she then said "oh, i looked into it and just found out i can in fact send it to a lab". something still didn't seem right. so we talked to the doctor who was not aware of anything, other then my girl kept failing tests. the nurse kept everything from him. she ended up getting fired because she was doing it to other people as well. the rumor mill was that she didn't like dealing with the bupe part of her job and just wanted to be a nurse for a normal family practice. so she was trying to weed people out. just another fucked up story to let you know you aren't alone!

    but back to your situation. don't take to much trams because it can cause seizures. even though taking the xanax with it will help prevent it, its still better to be safe. so keep the tram use as low as you can. i used to take around 200mgs and it would help decently. what kinda nausea medication do they give you? some kinds are very helpful. taking the lope will help as well.

    now onto the ER doctor. i think its fucked up what he told you, and should have kept his mouth shut because he didn't know what he was talking about. but thats just it, he is an ER doctor you can't expect him to know about addiction that much. but those who don't know should not give advice. also he couldn't give you subs if he wanted to. doctors have to take a special class and test to get to script for them and they are only aloud to have so many scripts a month. but going to the ER was a good idea because you did score some meds that will at least help a little. its better then going and scoring dope, that is what you DON't want to do. don't let this doctors office get you down. i'd find another one and the xanax in your system aint going to matter if you start another office. just be honest with them and say you tried everything you could not to go back to your favorite drug of choice because you seriously want to quit, but feel you still need the subs. everybody is different and comes off them at different times. my girl has been going for about 2 years!

    if i was you and couldn't get a script this week, i would..

    take some of the trams, they will help some with WD(remember don't go crazy with them) if you could get some hydro's or something that aint strong enough to get you high, that will help more. but i have found trams to be very helpful for WD.

    take some lope, its been along time i forget the amounts that help but somebody will chime in.. its great to prevent the shits as well as help ease WD's a little bit.

    again what nausea meds did the ER give you? some are very helpful with WD. the best nausea med i have taken for WD's was zofran as far as taking the nausea away. but good old promethazine works well and also makes you a little sleepy.

    take some xanax so you can sleep and it will help with the restless legs and all around make you feel a bit better.

    them 800mg ibuprofen are great for head aches or body pains, so take them if you need. but if i remember correctly ultracet is the tramadol with apap in it? so be careful with all that junk in your liver.

    good luck and let us know when you get a hold of more news or another office.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by lister40 View Post
    ...I went to the ER and told them my situation. The Dr. really advised me to not take it anymore. She said to just go through the w/ds then not get back on it again. My stand on this is that I want to be on it for as long as possible.. I don't think I'm ready to get off of my subs.. I also want it there just so I can't relapse.. and if I do relapse, it would take an insane amount of cash to get what I want because of the blocking effect.. Anyway, she said that's your decision.
    DO NOT LISTEN to a single word that dumb ass Doc at the ER recommended. Obviously, she is just like the other 85% of Doc's who view someone on Bupe or Done' as just another strung out junkie, which is obviously far from the truth. NO ONE is "just another strung out junkie". Every addict has reasons why they use, and most doctors just don't get it. Also, very few Doc's understand, or even know anything about buprenorphine. As a result they don't get that:

    1. It DOES NOT get you high like full agonist's.

    2. It stop's all/most cravings for opies. ie, It makes you feel "Normal".

    3. It is a HUGE DETERRENT from using as you would need massive amounts of your DOC to even try to get high. And even then, most likely you will not feel shit and would have blown mad loot for nothing.

    4. It gives your brain time to recover from the damage done by extended opie abuse. That way, when someone is ready to get off opies all together, by committing to a slow, steady taper on the Bupe, one generally still feels "normal" once off opies all together. Most Doc's don't get why the relapse rate is so high among the "cold turkey" group, but this is why! They're brain simply isn't given any time to recover so it can start producing it's own endorphins again, and that causes the brain to crave opies, and that's why relapse is so prevalent.

    5. For some people, they just never felt/feel "normal", even before they ever used opies. This is commonly referred to on this site as the ever controversial "EDS", or "endorphin deficiency syndrome". I personally believe I have this disorder, as I never felt "normal" before my first opie use. ALL opies make me feel "normal", and it's not the high, it's something else, considering Done' and Bupe make me feel "normal" too, but have no "high" to speak of.

    Bupe has LITERALLY saved my life. Without it, or opies in general, I would have absolutely positively committed suicide by now...

    So please, don't listen to that bitch, (who I won't even refer to as "Doctor"), and stay on the Bupe Train. I promise you will be glad you did, Lister.
    Last edited by njp2525; 03-13-2011 at 04:05 PM.
    ~ Reality is just a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs. ~ - Robin Williams

  16. #16
    Opiophorum Member lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Thanks again guys.

    This is weird.. I'm not feeling the w/ds as much anymore.. I took like 30mg of Loperamide; 3mg of xanax; 150mg of Tramadol, and I've been drinking a LOT of Gatorade/Powerade to keep hydrated and I also am always thirsty no matter what.. (I do know that xanax makes me thirsty, but I'm thirsty either way.)..

    I'm definitely wanting to stay on Subutex.. the only bad thing that I don't like about switching to a new doctor is that I think I'll have to go to meetings.. I'm not positive though.

    Hopefully my actual doctor knows what is going on and realizes why I took xanax..



    Speaking of EDS, I think I may have that.. I've seen stuff about it.. Before I took opiates (when I was 15), I was always exhausted.. not exactly depressed.. There's no way I'd ever commit suicide.. heh trust me, this has been a crazy as week.. Almost seems like the world is gonna end: Tsunami, War in Libya, My bank account is overdrawn $118 (possibly more chargers for overdrawn account), huge argument with my mother, going through withdrawls..getting treated like shit by the nurse/secretary (I think it was the secretary.. not positive.).. but yeah.. I never feel like I've been depressed.. I'm a hermit. I like to stay by myself.. Watch TV/Play poker for cash.. spend money :P.. used to do drugs.. go out with friends every now and then..



    Oh I'm not sure if I said this, but when the doctor asked me what I was expecting from this visit, I told her methadone or some type of realllly weak agonist. She said she'd never give an opiate to an opiate dependent person.. then proceeds to prescribe me Tramadol which is partially an opiate I believe.

    Thankfully today is Sunday. Tomorrow I will be able to call other Sub doctors in my area (hopefully.) It's Spring Break so this is a great time.. I've heard that there is a drug testing place in my area that will only take a few hours to do.. apparently they have a lab on site.. I'm not sure though.. I will find out Monday.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    i understand the ER doctor not wanting to give out opiates to an addict, that is their call and probably the safe/best one. if you OD or get in trouble, whatever, they could be held responsible because they knew about your addiction and still gave you the opiates.

    my problem is, if they feel this way, don't give anything out! yea, in your situation the trams will help. but think about a desperate junky who isn't educated on the danger of high dosages of tramadol. all my friends think/thought they could take as many as needed to help if they were in WD because they don't contain apap. so this dependent person gets these #28 50mg trams. they start taking them and taking them thinking its fine, even if they took half thats 700mg's, more then enough for complications. so there goes that doctors plan of trying to be safe.

    i guess they just aren't educated enough on the matter...

    good luck tomorrow and i can't see it being a problem you took the xanax, hell even if you took an opiate, it should have be ok(don't do that lol). what did they expect you to do?

    i know how you feel about the bad week, shits been real bad for me as well, a good friend past away from an OD, dealing with my girls ileostomy, probably moving, etc.. hang in there, stuff will get better.

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    Opiophorum Member lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Oh yeah I understand the whole giving an opiate to an addict; I just thought it was funny because technically Tramadol is an opiate.. or at least it can give you an opiate-like high.

    Thankfully I am educated on Tramadol. I was going through w/d a few weeks ago because I ran out early.. (This is the one of the few times I don't run out early, and I still end up going through w/ds ... sigh) anyway, I was taking 300mg of Tramadol.. Of course I worked myself up to that.. I was taking xanax and topamax.. I was at 450mg at one point, but never went above these ridiculous doses people post (1g); These Ultrams have 37.5mg/325mg Tram/APAP;


    I'm not feeling the w/ds as much anymore.. I don't understand.. maybe it was psychological at first? I was having really bad back pain where I never have had it before.. also felt like crap.. Maybe the Trams / xanax are working;

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by lister40 View Post
    Oh yeah I understand the whole giving an opiate to an addict;
    I dont, that shit pisses me off to no end. Addicts are humans too. We have pain just like anybody else and need opiates to treat them like anybody else. Probably more so if your an opiate addict. There is no law against giving opiates to addicts. I believe it may be safer to give them to addicts then anybody else because we have a tolerance and have less chance of od esp. if they give a weak opiate. Not to mention that most addicts are more informed on the drugs then non addicts. IDK I understand a doctor not wanting to get in trouble and put his job on the line for some junky but they are doctors and they went to school to help people no matter what and not judge. Thats just my 2 cents.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by normus420 View Post
    I dont, that shit pisses me off to no end. Addicts are humans too. We have pain just like anybody else and need opiates to treat them like anybody else. Probably more so if your an opiate addict. There is no law against giving opiates to addicts. I believe it may be safer to give them to addicts then anybody else because we have a tolerance and have less chance of od esp. if they give a weak opiate. Not to mention that most addicts are more informed on the drugs then non addicts. IDK I understand a doctor not wanting to get in trouble and put his job on the line for some junky but they are doctors and they went to school to help people no matter what and not judge. Thats just my 2 cents.
    no no, i am not talking about giving opiates to addicts in pain, i agree with that. if you have legit pain you should get the same medication a non addict is given. i am talking about his specific situation. the doctor would be prescribing a scheduled narcotic for off use to a know addict. unless the OP lives in kentucky(i think thats the only state?) tramadol isn't scheduled.

    but i do not agree with it being safer to give pain meds to an addict. tolerance doesn't matter, a non addict is going to take their meds as prescribed, or close to it. they would have to take like 10 of their hydros depending on strength. an addict will take them all to get high because of tolerance, resulting in more OD's. i get what you are trying to say but sadly thats not how it is, even the most educated users have ended up with an OD.

    and your right they went to school to help people, they aint doing much help if they give the meds to OD on or feed an addiction.
    not trying to get on your case or anything, i just don't see it exactly the same way.

    thats good lister. my first time coming off subs i didn't get any WD's, it was weird. but then again it was a bad time in my life and the WD's probably were masked behind all the other emotional and physical pain i was going through. tramadol can be very good for WD, i have successfully used trams before to hold off WD and it took just about every symptom away. the symptoms it didn't take away, like it being hard to sleep, the restless legs, etc... the xanax helps.

    glad things are going good but still work on that piss test and all!

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Ok So I took my drug test today; Off the military base.. They said they'd get the results back that same day and fax to my Dr.. So I'm hoping that my Dr. calls me tomorrow;

    I failed for xanax.. which is a drug he won't give me.. I have general anxiety disorder.. I don't even like leaving the house unless I was on drugs.. Subutex/Suboxone actually helped that somewhat.. but I still have anxiety.. I doubt this will help me getting xanax or any anxiety medication.. I don't even drive because of my anxiety.. and I still can't get help.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by lister40 View Post
    Ok So I took my drug test today; Off the military base.. They said they'd get the results back that same day and fax to my Dr.. So I'm hoping that my Dr. calls me tomorrow;

    I failed for xanax.. which is a drug he won't give me.. I have general anxiety disorder.. I don't even like leaving the house unless I was on drugs.. Subutex/Suboxone actually helped that somewhat.. but I still have anxiety.. I doubt this will help me getting xanax or any anxiety medication.. I don't even drive because of my anxiety.. and I still can't get help.
    i know how you feel. i went through all these test to check my heart, bunch of blood tests, even tried a closed mri(but had a panic attack and couldn't finish it). anyway they found nothing wrong with me and guess they thought since i was 16 at the time, i just wanted attention. i lived with it for a few months then got a job delivering pizza. with out benzo's i too can't even take a car ride. if i am driving, randomly its like a switch gets flipped and i get dizzy, disoriented, tunnel vision, real hot, stuff like that, i have to pull over. this was before i got on opiates or anything, but i was going on vacation and the doctor gave me xanax for the plane ride. he gave me 6, .5mg ones, but was told to take 1-2 before i got on the plane and the same the way home, so if i took the max, i would be left with 2 extra? the day before i decided to take one to see what it did because if it got me high like weed the air cop would be arresting me because of the panic attacks weed gives me. after i took that pill, it was like everything was normal, i didn't feel "high" i just wasn't overwhelmed with random things. it was like i had a normal life back, like when i was a younger.

    of course the doctor wouldn't give me a monthly script of them or anymore at all, he sent me to a shrink who gave me antidepressants, i tried them but knew i wasn't depressed. then i turned 18 and my step dads insurance dropped me and i had to get welfare insurance and they gave me a new doctor(best thing that ever happened). this is the doctor most my family went to and after trying buspar for a week, he started me on the 2mg kpins. now thats its been some years i get a nice script of both kpins and xanax.

    i know your struggle, the attacks are horrible. nobody understands how bad it really is unless they have it. try standing outside of an ER room all night feeling like your having a heart attack, but deep down you know its just a panic attack. you still stand there because the symptoms are so real, but you don't want to bother them then again you don't want to die. or you feel like if you slow down your heart will slow down and you will die.

    good luck let us know what the doctor says. i would call the doctor at some point tomorrow/today...whatever the 15th! it may get his/her ass in gear and if they have any compassion in their body at all, they will call it in asap for you.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    the sub doc my girl goes to and i went to had a cup filled with Popsicle sticks, if you pull one out that says TEST, you take a drug test. and they only do that if you have certain insurances, plus half the time they forget. the only time you are for sure taking a test is induction.
    I went to this same Dr from about 04-08 until they got so greedy adding all these dr's and pt's, sometimes you'd have to wait an hour or more just to get your script. But that's not including drive time to the city, then back to the pharmacy to wait another 30 mins, then another 30 for the sub to kick in, which can all be a bitch if you're sick. But I failed that fucking drug test at least 10 times during that period but they didn't give a shit. Now I drive 10 mins from my house to a new dr, only had to piss once in the last 8 mos, granted I don't have insurance, but still, he's the only dr and I'm in and out within 15 mins tops.

    Sorry but the popsicle stick thing brought back some funny memories for me. You'd get called up to the counter and the lady would shake the bottle and most times you could peek and make sure you didn't pick the "test" stick, lol.
    faaaaaling into a deep well

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdog View Post
    I went to this same Dr from about 04-08 until they got so greedy adding all these dr's and pt's, sometimes you'd have to wait an hour or more just to get your script. But that's not including drive time to the city, then back to the pharmacy to wait another 30 mins, then another 30 for the sub to kick in, which can all be a bitch if you're sick. But I failed that fucking drug test at least 10 times during that period but they didn't give a shit. Now I drive 10 mins from my house to a new dr, only had to piss once in the last 8 mos, granted I don't have insurance, but still, he's the only dr and I'm in and out within 15 mins tops.

    Sorry but the popsicle stick thing brought back some funny memories for me. You'd get called up to the counter and the lady would shake the bottle and most times you could peek and make sure you didn't pick the "test" stick, lol.
    the bold is funny for me because the first time i went, i guess i wasn't paying attention(being in WD will do that) and she told me to grab a stick. so i looked in and honestly didn't look to find one that didn't give me a drug test, really i had no clue what i was doing. i guess just looking for the best stick in the bottle lol. i pulled the stick out and she laughed and said you're not supposed to look, i asked her why? she laughed even harder and then told me. i felt like an idiot, especially because this was a childhood friends mother. even going there in the first place was embarrassing for that reason.

    anyway, if you went to the same exact office as i am talking about the wait time has gotten worse. the office is right outside city limits? the borough name starts with a "B" and although you probably won't have him as your sub doctor, the guy that runs the office last name starts with a "D"? you usually only see him during your induction appt. not sure if its against the rules to name a sub doctors office, so i will error on the side of caution.

    but yea, the wait times are at least an hour, really you could wait 3 hours now. and the rite aid a few shops up the street takes 30 minutes at least, even though they have signs that you get a free $5 gift card if it takes longer then 15 minutes. luckily i don'y go anymore and my girl does. with her medical conditions i got my friends mom to get her in at a certain time so she doesn't have to wait. and we are also lucky that if i moved a house or two i could see the building lol. its less then a block away from me. my girl went this week and the doctor wasn't even there! when that happens he usually has the scripts filled out and the nurse or PA will hand them out to you, or sometimes the PA will fill them out(is that legal?). well this time the doctor wasn't there and they didn't have the scripts, so they called them in, not faxed but called. i didn't think you could do that with subs? anyway the place is pretty shady, but we only had one big problem and that was taken care of. its also the cheapest one around and you can't beat how close it is to us.

    this is also the same sub doctor that was all over the local news because some guy came in and pistol whipped a doctors wife and stole like 1000 subs or something. they caught him because he was a patient there before. lol if your that desperate and you know your getting caught, why not try a pharmacy for some good stuff? lol or put a damn mask on.

    any news from the doctor lister?

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    Opiophorum Member kdog is fresh on the scene. kdog is fresh on the scene. kdog is fresh on the scene. kdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    anyway, if you went to the same exact office as i am talking about the wait time has gotten worse. the office is right outside city limits? the borough name starts with a "B" and although you probably won't have him as your sub doctor, the guy that runs the office last name starts with a "D"? you usually only see him during your induction appt. not sure if its against the rules to name a sub doctors office, so i will error on the side of caution.
    Yep that's the one. And yeah, you only see Dr. D for your induction, although when I first started going, in 04, he was relatively new and I saw him for a few mos and then he got another dr and I started seeing him. After that it just went downhill. I can't count how many different dr's I've seen at that place, and that isn't even legal, but somehow he managed to get around the system somehow.

    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    when that happens he usually has the scripts filled out and the nurse or PA will hand them out to you, or sometimes the PA will fill them out(is that legal?). well this time the doctor wasn't there and they didn't have the scripts, so they called them in, not faxed but called. i didn't think you could do that with subs?
    Yeah PA's can write scripts, that's legal. And I've had to have a few subs called in from my new dr, so apparantly that's legal as well. And that PA you're talking about at Dr D's office, she is smoking hot. I went back there one time late last year because I got mad at my current dr because he stopped writing my kpin script, which I now get from a psych so that's all good, but they didn't charge me for induction because I was a long time pt, and I saw Dr D and that PA. When I was in the room alone with her I couldn't help but stare at her when she was writing stuff down. I'm talking like staring at her like I wanted to bend her over and fuck the shit out of her staring, kinda creepy but in a good way, lolz. But I only went that one time, but because I went in and there were literally like 30-40 ppl in there and it took over an hr to get seen, my current doc took me back because I apologized and he's also nice as hell.
    faaaaaling into a deep well

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    Opiophorum Member lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    They got my results and said I failed for benzos. She then said that they cancelled all my prescriptions. So I guess it's a zero tolerance policy.. despite the fact that drug addicts relapse.. I'm not going to do drugs, but I guess that's what they want me to do.. Their offices closed at 40pm, and I called 3 minutes before 40pm.. it's now 4:36pm so I can't call today.. I'd have to leave a message.


    I've called a couple of doctors.. one has an appointment available in May.. 2 months from now.. Another office I called, the secretary said that Tricare doesn't accept outpatient drug treatment.. she said "We don't know how they are doing their coding over their but as soon as Tricare sees that its coded for opiate dependence, its kicked out so they don't pay." then also said "Whatever they do over there, we don't do." as if it were illegal.. I wish it were illegal..

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    Quote Originally Posted by lister40 View Post
    They got my results and said I failed for benzos. She then said that they cancelled all my prescriptions. So I guess it's a zero tolerance policy.. despite the fact that drug addicts relapse.. I'm not going to do drugs, but I guess that's what they want me to do.. Their offices closed at 40pm, and I called 3 minutes before 40pm.. it's now 4:36pm so I can't call today.. I'd have to leave a message.




    I've called a couple of doctors.. one has an appointment available in May.. 2 months from now.. Another office I called, the secretary said that Tricare doesn't accept outpatient drug treatment.. she said "We don't know how they are doing their coding over their but as soon as Tricare sees that its coded for opiate dependence, its kicked out so they don't pay." then also said "Whatever they do over there, we don't do." as if it were illegal.. I wish it were illegal..
    that sucks, i feel bad. what do they expect? your an addict relapse is part of the process, and not even that, you proved not to go back to your drug of choice but to try and deal without it! in my are we have tons and tons of sub doctors, i hope you have the same. get up a bit early and call around to try and find one. it should be criminal what your doctor did to you, its basically saying, you screwed up because they screwed up or had a mix up, whatever, but go back to doing drugs. so screwed up. i hope you find a doctor soon and sadly some sub doctors are really booked and have months of wait time. let me ask you this...is it out of the question to get on methadone for around 2 months if you can't find another doctor? keep your dosages as low as you can and taper to around 30mgs the last two weeks(i think thats the mg's they want you to be on when switching to bupe).

    i would really hate to see anybody go back to using, that wants to quit, just because a stupid doctor doesn't understand addiction, even though they are supposed to be specialist giving out subs. methadone aint a bad thing, you won't be on it long and the only problem i have had with methadone is coming off a long period of use. but that wouldn't be a problem because you would be switching.

    well good luck finding a new doctor and remember if you can't find one, methadone is a good option. just make sure you make that appt for the doctor that can get you in may soon, you put it off you may end up waiting a few more months. plus if people drop out of the program, you may get a call sooner saying they got a spot open(it happened with me).

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    Opiophorum Member lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough lister40 will become famous soon enough
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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    The list says there are 6.. 1st: the doctors died.. (he was 82); The 2nd phone number doesn't work; The third one is my current doctor; The 4th one is the one that said outpatient treatment isn't covered by Tricare; 5th one hasn't set up their policies yet, and doesn't know when they will..; 6th one has an opening in TWO months.;

    It looks like I may have to stay with my current one.. but try to get into the one in two months.. I don't think my current Dr. knows the current situation.. The nurse is a bitch. I acted professional the entire time.. She acted unreasonable and had no compassion.. It was THEIR mistake.

    I'm looking for a methadone clinic.. I googled it and couldn't find any.. I have back pain, and my mother was prescribed it for pain.. I think I could talk to a pain management office and see if I could get methadone; doubt it would work, but I can try.

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    where do you live roughly?

    seems to me in the US, anything can be found really withing say a ten hour drive. wouldnt you agree? maybe you need to save up some money, like a couple gs hopefully, and take a train or car ride to your nearest mecca of whatever you are looking for. seems like that would be a reasonable long term plan.

    If you live in the North east, you could easily make it to FL in a days time roundtrip or make 2 days out of it and get a $50 dollar a night room. West coast same thing, but you are prob already in the middle of everything. If you lived in Bumfuck NorCal, you got all the herb you would ever need, but if you need anything else, SF is just a 5-6hr drive away each way. Easily a day trip and you could prob pull something off without a phone connect either. Think about San Deigo, that isnt too far from a lot of places, crossing state lines is a crazy offense, but a personal supply may not me that much anyhow so it could be easy to conseal.

    Think about what is the biggest city in your state. Go there. You would be bound to find something eventually. I do understand that there are not open air markets every where, so some of this stuff may require a little "research" but idk, that is the best idea i could think of at this moment for someone really trying to survive with no subs for a month when they are dependant on about 8mg. Seems like crewl and unusual punishment if you ask me.... Fucked up shit... Maybe go to an ER. Did you ask your doc about that? If he recommends that you be seen by a doctor at an ER?

    I know for a while you had to have a special liscence to RX subs and only 30 patinets per dr and they had to take monthly classes and yadda yadda yadda, but it seems way more lax now. I know of docs causually Rxing way more than 30 patients, and I know they are on the up and up so the law must have changed. See if an ER doctor can wite you for Suboxone or Subutex. Explain the situation and he can even call your DR to varify what the fuck is exactly going on. If they are waiting for a piss test, you are still having a medical emergency regardless. You would need to be treated. Hospital bills are crazy unless you have good insurance, but they would legally have to do something for you.

    If all that fails, you may have a shitty week or month or whatever, but you would have at least 2 BIG court cases where you were the plaintiff looking to get a big time compensation for you pain and suffering and general lack of any care for your health. You could have died, and lets hope you dont have too bad of time and get the help you need before you health does become in danger....


    good luck man, i know how if can feel when it seems like you have no where to turn..
    better the devil you know than the devil you don't

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    Default Re: Suboxone doc drug testing law?

    lister tried the ER and they gave a script of ultracets and anti-inflammatory's and then told him just to quit the subs. the doctors can now have more patients but to be able to script them you gotta get the license still.

    for somebody that is in listers situation, i would hate to see them have to go back to using. its a slippery slope that could result in going back to drugs full time. it is good advice to find the biggest city in your state or a big city that is close to you. people at my girls sub doctor come from many states and drive many hours to get here, and they have to come twice a week.

    i still think methadone is your best bet, until a spot opens up at the other office. of course pending you find another sub doctor. if for some odd reason you can't find any other sub doctors, there is no methadone clinic around(gotta be a few), and you can't get to a bigger city, i would try finding something like hydro's or eve percocet to try and hold you over till you get in the new office. in the middle of treatment it would be real hard to pick up your DOC and try to only use it just to stay well. you may say fuck it, i have it, i can get high one day, and that one day ends up being a long time, also many other situations could present themselves in your brain to use. its just not worth the risk in my mind.

    where did you find the suboxone doctors? the suboxone website? i know that isn't really updated that well. try googleing addiction specialists in *your area*, sub doctors *your area*, etc..

    another worst case idea, do you have a PCP? maybe they would prescribe methadone till you could get in at the new office? i know its a long shot, but if you tell them the story and how you don't want to risk going back on drugs to try and stay well till your appt, in fear of a total relapse. that with something showing you are starting a new program as well as an old sub bottle, its worth a shot. if you have insurance the worst that could happen is they say no.

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