intra-muscular (IM) Buprenorphine from Suboxone/Subutex Guide

[Thanat0s]

actually not sure if it was a dope or sub cotton that did the trick...

abscesses are the result of unclean prep,
which is what happened there...

when done cleanly and properly ive never had a single issue with said ROA,
but ya cant cut a single corner,
EVER.

old rigs, old cottons, old water, lack of hand washing and alcohol wipes...
desparation does that sometimes.

if yer gonna IM anything,
follow the above guide to the fucking letter.

any omission is a chance for bacteria to be introduced.
to be fair ive had more abscesses/illness/infection from filthy IVing that i have since ive been IM,
but ive gotten a lot cleaner, living indoors, bathing and all that...

still there are risks,
IM done PROPERLY is as safe, if not safer, in some respects.
particularly for more casual users, regarding margin of error in dosing,
'normal' physical damage from ROA.

im glad to have had an easily treatable abscess on my arm
as opposed to endocarditis or other blood infection from IV,
which would doubtless have resulted from the same shot.

[Tdigit]

Can you get cotton fever from an IM shot? I ask this because yesterday I ran out of 1/2 in. needles and had to IV my sub. I ended up with the fever for only the second time in my IV career. I obviously don't want to go through that again and was wondering if the fever was only a threat to IV users.

I'm fairly certain it is only IV users that run this risk as I've read online that its caused by bacteria making its way into the blood stream. I'm guessing if that same bacteria were to be introduced into muscle the most it would cause is an abscess. Am I correct in this assumption?

I decided to just ask this question in here instead of making a whole new thread. I looked on the search engine here and also google and found nothing.

[More Feen]

I'm no expert in the field of "Cotton Fever" but I do think you are right Tdigit.

The effects of Cotton Fever are basically due to the IMMEDIATE introduction of bacteria, bacterial toxins & bacterial antigens into the blood stream.

I think the bad effects one feels from Cotton Fever is your immune system's response (not directly the effect of any bacteria or their products).

So, a less than clean shot given IM, could lead to an abscess, or other localized problems, in a few hours--to days afterwards.

Such a shot given IV is going to cause your immune system (IS) to panic a little bit and dump an assortment of chemicals to fight this intrusion of bacterial gunk. Its these chemicals that trigger fever, chills, etc... (probably). I think they are called "cytokines" but I'm not sure.

If one is shooting a fetid soup of bacterial toxins--their reaction could be directly related to those toxins (this happens from time to time in hospitals with contaminated batches of medicines. One reason why hospital meds have lot numbers).

M F

[Tdigit]

I appreciate the response M F. I just figured I'd get some input from others. There really isn't a lot of information online about cotton fever.

One things for sure though, I'm going to be a lot cleaner from now on whether I IM or IV.

[subox0wned]

Just wanted to put out there, that thanks to this thread, I have changed the ROA of my daily dose of bupe from IV to IM. not that it's a huge jump or anything, perhaps reletively safer, yet still quite risky, however my circulatory system will be given a much needed rest as I continue to taper down. It's not as though I was ignorant to intramuscular injection prior to this thread, but reading this in combination with confidence in my ability to properly filter a shot, plus a desire to take it easy on my veins, has caused me to take the leap. Yay me! Although I have only yet prefected how to hit myself in the thigh, I'm sure with time, I will become just as proficient with IMing as I did IVing.

[limitless_euphoria]

The best filtration is using a 1 cc draw rig and pulling it up through the right-sized cotton. It comes up nice and clear as long as you're not doing a lot (1 mg max). Then by squirting it back into your cooker then drawing it up with another tiny cotton to catch any extra little pieces the first filtration might have missed.

Go easy on the veins man, IM is just as good if not better and I know I'm not alone in thinking so. That's how it's administered for pain in a hospital setting (doses in the microgram range given IM).

One more thing: I always swab with alcohol beforehand and make sure I got clean rigs if/when I do that. Good luck.

[subox0wned]

Thanks for the advice man, My typical IM dose has been .25-.5mg, ~3-4 times a day. I'm quite experienced IVing my bupe, so I'm aware of the appropriate doses, & I have to say I have worked out the science of filtration as well as one could, sans-micron, & always make sure my shots are clear. I do use a 1cc draw rig, with the tip removed, & packed with (typically 2) wet q-tip heads, & when it comes to IMing, I always run the solution through twice. I then draw the final shot right into the rig I will be using by poking the rig-to-be-used into the cottons, & drawing it out of the filtration syringe like one would draw out of a vial. I also heat for sterility, & then freeze for a few minutes to re-solidify any insolubles before the first filtration. This is more or less the same prep I used when IVing, except I usually only ran it through one filter, if it makes any sense, it seems I'm a bit more careful when prepping for IM, just because I'm weary of abscesses, & what's in the soloution that I'm going to leave to sit & marinate in my thigh muscles. I suppose I should have shown my veins the same respect, but I always was quite careful while IVing aswell, & never had any complications, short term anyway, but they're getting a much needed rest now.

A few questions I'd like to pose: Is it normal to have some muscle soreness at the injection site, into the next day? For instance, of the 3 shots I took yesterday, the last one I administered is still sore. The first two were sore for a period after injection, but that has already dissipated. no redness, hardness, palpable lumps, signs of infection or anything of the sort, just a slight feeling of having a bruised thigh, or like I have been kicked in the leg. Will this always happen, or is it something the body can acclimate to? I kind of have a feeling the reason I've been left with a bit of soreness is because I couldn't help but clench up my muscle during injection, I just wanted to make sure I could see the definition, because it was one of my first IM shots, & I wanted to be able to see where I was hitting. I'm sure with a little more experience, this could be avoided. I should also probably pick up some longer sharps next time, because I'm currently using the short tips that I was IVing with. I'm very, very lean so this isn't a huge problem, but I'm sure longer tips would make things easier on me. Finally, I assumed that the thigh muscles would be the easiest for an IM novice like me to hit, just wondering if anyone had some advice/tips on other spots I could hit with relative ease, so that I can rotate injection sites. All I can really think of is my ass, or my shoulder, but I don't really know where I'm supposed to be sticking the deltoid so I haven't dared yet.

[ryan5892]

A few questions I'd like to pose: Is it normal to have some muscle soreness at the injection site, into the next day? For instance, of the 3 shots I took yesterday, the last one I administered is still sore. The first two were sore for a period after injection, but that has already dissipated. no redness, hardness, palpable lumps, signs of infection or anything of the sort, just a slight feeling of having a bruised thigh, or like I have been kicked in the leg. Will this always happen, or is it something the body can acclimate to? I kind of have a feeling the reason I've been left with a bit of soreness is because I couldn't help but clench up my muscle during injection, I just wanted to make sure I could see the definition, because it was one of my first IM shots, & I wanted to be able to see where I was hitting. I'm sure with a little more experience, this could be avoided. I should also probably pick up some longer sharps next time, because I'm currently using the short tips that I was IVing with. I'm very, very lean so this isn't a huge problem, but I'm sure longer tips would make things easier on me. Finally, I assumed that the thigh muscles would be the easiest for an IM novice like me to hit, just wondering if anyone had some advice/tips on other spots I could hit with relative ease, so that I can rotate injection sites. All I can really think of is my ass, or my shoulder, but I don't really know where I'm supposed to be sticking the deltoid so I haven't dared yet.

yes this is normal for the first attempts of IM injection, i especially remember feeling soreness in my thigh when doing it in my thigh.

what sized needles are you using. i use 1.25" 27g 3ml syringes for my IM injections, if u have access to anything bigger than the typical 1/2" insulin syringe, i would suggest using your ass muscle, it hurts a bit during administration, but i feel no pain after the initial stinging that administration gives. only use your ass muscle if you have rigs that are at least 1 inch long its a fairly deep muscle.

also the deltoid is a good one, and if skinnny deltoid injections CAN (bigger needles should be used, but you can deal without) be given with a standard 1/2" insulin syringe, http://www.drugs.com/cg/how-to-give-...injection.html, that will show you the area to give yourself a proper deltoid injection.

[subox0wned]

Thanks so much for the info ryan, the deltoid link is especially appreciated. As of now I am using your standard 1/2" insulin sharp, but I do have access to larger sizes, it's just that I still have some of these left as I was using them for IV, but once I run out, I expect I will move up to a larger gauge/tip if I plan to continue IM administration.

EDIT: I'm also curious if there's any issue using a saline soloution for IM injection, or if I should just stick to regular h2o.

[Thanat0s]

ONE THING:

dude,
ROTATE your IM sites!!!

do not pump 3 IM shots into one muscle in one day.
theres a TON of options for IM, even with only a 1/2in rig(as long as you are lean enough)
if a shot makes ya sore, do NOT hit there again until all is back to normal, k?

even if no soreness develops, PLEASE, for the sake of your body, rotate sites left to right, up and down...

do NOT pump shot into the same muscle over and over,
you CAN burn it out, trust me, ok?

[subox0wned]

Hey, I gotcha man, I appreciate you're warning, & I will surely heed you're advice. I just successfully hit my deltoid, and there seems to be a lot less post-shot soreness involved in this hit (none at the time being), not that I'll be overusing this spot either, but I think I'll be going easy on my thighs for the time being. Also, leanness is not an issue, I am the definition of lean, not even trying to sound boastful, I wish it was easier for me to put on some weight.

& just for the record, I did not take 3 shots to the same muscle yesterday, I took one to my right thigh, & 2, in different locations, on my right thigh. Just wanted to clear that up, but I won't be doing that anymore.

[Contemporarium]

So I guess IVing 8mg in a 1/2 cc rig by just mixing the powder and water then dropping a cott0n in isn't the best idea? Reading "Missing is almost a definite abscess" definitely just scared the shit out of me. I'll do better next time. Heh.

[plies]

important question:
can you IM or snort the strips? i can't find info about doing that as opposed to the pills. i dont know where to get sub pills, so im hoping i can break down the strips i have and IM (or even snort?) those. any info? i dont know if i took the subs (sublingual) too early after dosing full agonists to start me on precipitated WDs, but ive always felt terrible and had to dose on a full agonist to stop the lower back (or possibly kidney or liver) pain i got when sublingualing the strips in the past. and i waited like 8-12 hours. if it matters, currently im IMing some ECP and (stupid but i take great precaution) IMing kadian 60s, usually 2-3 at a time, twice a day, sometimes 3x a day. any info? really would love to try IMing the subs but havent seen if you can do it with the orange strips (w/ naloxone) instead of the pills. would be SO appreciative if anyone has any insight.

[More Feen]

So I guess IVing 8mg in a 1/2 cc rig by just mixing the powder and water then dropping a cott0n in isn't the best idea? Reading "Missing is almost a definite abscess" definitely just scared the shit out of me. I'll do better next time. Heh.

If injected, IM or IV, Bupe doses are A LOT LOWER than the sublingual.

Keep this in mind: IM/ IV dose is 0.3 mg, 0.6,mg or 0.9 mg (typically). Shooting 8mg is like 8--25 TIMES more than you prolly need.

Will this kill you? IDK,but it will waste a lot of your bupe.

M F

[plies]

damn, nobody can tell me if you can IM or snort the strips? all i find is stuff about pills, seems like most ppl associated with this stuff would know, and i've UTMFSE a ton, but cant find anything mentioning snorting or (preferably) IMing the orange strips. i assume that if someone in another thread was talking about IVing them, it could be fine. but putting something that isn't a pill or powder into my muscle seems like it might not be the best idea. id be super grateful for just a yes or no. the question that was just answered in the above post was from earlier in the year. im sure he figured out that by now. this would have direct positive effects on my life if someone could please just gimme a yes or no at least.
sorry im so rambly, anxiety is killing me

oh, and in the above post i said i waited 8-12 hours in the past before sublingual dose of subs, but it was more like 16 hours, give or take a couple.
i will love you if you can help out

[blackman]

^^^ You can snort the films no problem. I don't even use water. Just cut it up into little pieces and go.

I have no personal experience, but I would see no problem in IMing the films. They dissolve just fine. If I had a rig I'd give you a definite yes or no in 5 min, but I'm trying to be a good boy.

I'm sure someone here has IM the films and could chime in. Sorry I can't be of more help.

[plies]

somehow my post got deleted. just wanted to thank you, blackman. if nobody else feels like they wanna take a couple secs to give a definite answer i guess i'll just try the shit and hope for the best (stupid, i know, but the strips are all i can get and if i dont get an answer then ill just cross my fingers and hope to avoid a deep tissue infection or abcess,etc). so yeah, please, someone must've done this before. id love to go on done but my unique work schedule prevents me from doing the clinic thing, and im clueless as to how to find a compassionate PM doc that would consider scripting me done. ugh. i feel like NYC would have some PM docs that are somewhat understanding, but getting off work to see what, 1, maybe 2 docs in a day is expensive in its own right. im just afraid of spending tons of time and thus money to come up empty-handed. but there doesnt seem to be any way to determine what docs might be more compassionate. and the dope scene here has really been lacking lately, the only decent thing ive gotten is empire, everything else has sucked, and the guy who i get empire from is a complete asshole who will tell you he's got it and to make the trip to him, and then when you get there he will sometimes just ignore your calls until you finally give up, wasting 4 hours of my time at least, which kills me, makes me loathe going to him and giving him my hard earned cash. i have more bupe Qs, like it would seem id have to wait less time after IMing ECP to dose subs than after IMing the kadian, since i eat the pill sediment thats left after i "cold cook," i feel at least a tiny bit of it would still be time-released.

tl;dr PLEASE, does anyone know if IMing the strips is safe? if so i think it might help to simply sub "pill" in the instructions to "pill/strip" so its clear that the strips work in the same manner.
again, thanks blackman, your kindness doesn't go unnoticed.

[FeelThisWayForever]

I take 12mg/day of Suboxone. How much would you guess I would have to IM per day to maintain? Would a 1 mg shot hold me for a whole day? I can't see that holding me. I have never IV or even snorted subs (I imagine the drip would be too nauseating). I could taper my dose down to 8mg within the next week just to be able to do this and Glow a little instead of almost puking every morning from the nasty taste.

[onewayonly]

somehow my post got deleted. just wanted to thank you, blackman. if nobody else feels like they wanna take a couple secs to give a definite answer i guess i'll just try the shit and hope for the best (stupid, i know, but the strips are all i can get and if i dont get an answer then ill just cross my fingers and hope to avoid a deep tissue infection or abcess,etc). so yeah, please, someone must've done this before. id love to go on done but my unique work schedule prevents me from doing the clinic thing, and im clueless as to how to find a compassionate PM doc that would consider scripting me done. ugh. i feel like NYC would have some PM docs that are somewhat understanding, but getting off work to see what, 1, maybe 2 docs in a day is expensive in its own right. im just afraid of spending tons of time and thus money to come up empty-handed. but there doesnt seem to be any way to determine what docs might be more compassionate. and the dope scene here has really been lacking lately, the only decent thing ive gotten is empire, everything else has sucked, and the guy who i get empire from is a complete asshole who will tell you he's got it and to make the trip to him, and then when you get there he will sometimes just ignore your calls until you finally give up, wasting 4 hours of my time at least, which kills me, makes me loathe going to him and giving him my hard earned cash. i have more bupe Qs, like it would seem id have to wait less time after IMing ECP to dose subs than after IMing the kadian, since i eat the pill sediment thats left after i "cold cook," i feel at least a tiny bit of it would still be time-released.

tl;dr PLEASE, does anyone know if IMing the strips is safe? if so i think it might help to simply sub "pill" in the instructions to "pill/strip" so its clear that the strips work in the same manner.
again, thanks blackman, your kindness doesn't go unnoticed.

Yes you can do anything with the strips. Cut off 1mg place in 1ml water. Let it sit 5 minutes. Stir with toothpick. Draw up and do the rest how u like. I have IV'd them for months straight, now doing IM. Eventually I want to just shoot the liquid in my nose.

[ryan5892]

Don't IM films/strips.

[onewayonly]

Don't IM films/strips.

Whats up with doing it that way. I IV 'd them for months hell i thought i thought I
was saving myself some vein problems doing it this way (IM).