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  1. #31
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    ive filled other people's narc scripts, and not been asked for ID
    i don't make a habit of it, but it's been done

  2. #32
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerets View Post
    The entire reason she is asking, calling a pharmacist, and researching this online... is to prevent the risk. If she wanted to roll the dice she would have filled it days ago. Which is why I am trying to ask people that actually know or have experience... anyone can have an opinion and anyone can guess. If she can find evidence either way; that this will not work, she isn't going to do it. If she finds evidence that it will work, she probably will do it... and if she does, smartly and only one a couple times per year.

    I have heard everything from "no one can drop off or pick up another persons script" to "you can't pay cash because they'll have her insurance on file"... this stuff isn't accurate. Even the national pharmacist manual supports the exact opposite.

    Any other information relating to experience or first/second-hand information is greatly appreciated.
    Here's what I have seen, you'll get away with it for a while until your information gets flagged. Then both of your doctors will be contacted and you will be dropped. On top of losing all of your pain meds FOREVER, you will face criminal prosecution. Not worth the risk.

    You should do one of two things. A. Have your pcp call your pain management doc and say, "xxxx is not functioning well on just the Fent patches. I know that you have rules, but I would be willing to write for a small amount of bt meds, as long as you're ok with it."

    Either that, or like how others have suggested, you should ask the pcp to write for both scripts. Believe me when I say that if your state has an rx monitoring program, or plans to have one in the near future, you will eventually get caught. Doesn't matter if you, your sister, or your fucking dog fills the script. If it was as easy as giving a nickname, everyone would be defrauding the rx monitoring systems.

    The other thing is what if your pain specialist decides to start drug testing?

    Ps this is not speculation. I have seen this happen. Please don't let it happen to you.
    Last edited by degausser; 11-06-2010 at 06:59 AM.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    You keep asking for more information like there is some concrete anbd tangible answer to this and there just isn't. All of the information you need is in this thread already, but since you seem to be having trouble getting the overall message (I don't mean this in a mean way, please do not take it that way!), I will summarize it for you.

    Legally:
    You will likely get away with it a few times. Maybe quite a few times, maybe not even once. But by actually going through with these steps that you are asking about, you will be attempting to decieve, which makes this a crime. Therefore, if you do get caught, you will be drawn into the court system. I had a friend with an expensive lawer in NJ who got caught (though it was a different situation) for something related to dr shopping once it escalates a bit (and it always escalates until you get your hand slapped one way or another. Anything from drs finding out about each other and pulling scripts, to comitting fraud and going to jail). This person did six months and has a felony now.

    In General:

    The consequences of dr shopping are never worth it if you have a good doctor that writes a good script. Unless you are really willing to make the effort every time to be ultra catious (like drive to a different state and pay cash), or are really lucky and have doctors who don't check the state monitor system often or thoroughly (this is possible. But unlikely to find TWO drs at the same time who are so relaxed), then sooner or later (usually sooner), the doctors will find out about each other and both scripts will be yanked with no taper or nothing. It has been many years since I have doctor shopped. I was good at it. But I learned the hard way that it will always come back to bite you.


    To Summarize:

    Do I think your friend will get arrested and go to jail for what she is thinking of doing? No. Not unless she does something really stupid like use insurance for both doctors, while getting meds from them both for the same condition, without them knowing of each other. I have seen this charged as insurance fraud before. Not sure if the charges stuck, but if they did... That would defenitely not be worth a stupid script for 90 oxies of small (or large) mg content.

    What I do believe will happen is that if your friend tries this, she will think she is all crafty and careful, but something she isn't aware of in the process will come back and bite her in the ass in the form of the doctors finding out about each other cuz of the script monitoring program. Then she will lose all scripts and have difficulty finding a doctor that will write for anything more than ambien and suboxone for the rest of the time she lives in that state.

    Seriously... Don't mess with a good thing. You will kick yourself hard and long if you lose it over a little pill greed (trust me, I know that from experience).

  4. #34
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Chemical_Boy,

    Your post did it for her. You seem to have both first and second hand experience that this will not work and is overall, just not work it. She is going to approach the doctor she is close with and see if he will be willing to take over her pain treatment. I'm sure he will, but if he decides not to, at least she has something that's not worth the risk of losing (in prescriptions, a career, and freedom).

    Thanks for the help! Will keep you posted on what results. I appreciate you sharing.

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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    I HAVE SAME QUESTION: BTW new to this site, got some friends on here but haven't heard back; I don't know where or HOW to post a new thread? So can ask this society and crew some new questions myself!! Thanks for any advice on that..

    my situation: trauma patient, serious PM patient and gone to my same doc for like 1 year+. Wrote everything from dilaud, roxi, oc's, now on oc 30's. I got referral to new doc that does nerve pain- prescribes 80mg, so can I get my 30mg and 80mg filled?? They are 2 different doctors too. i saw some posts saying HAVE let them know abt eachother, I haven't. what if I fill 1 cash and 1 w/ insur from new doctor? I don't know what to do...
    I p/u my script from PM clinic at hospital, I'm in CA-SF btw, today but haven't called around to see who has the og oc's or get it filled; I have this appt tomorrow and idk what to do....I heard diff things so seeing what ppl say.
    Can do both if drop 1 doc if drop usual PM doc; Also but I have my 30mg script from my usual doc..have new appt w/ new doc tomrrow and will get a diff script for OG 80s most likely, so do wait and run that one w/ insurance then other one somewhere else? Do I still see this new doc b/c he will write 80mg my usual doc likes program I'm on now with 60 30mg and dones...

    thanks for all advice, suggestions, information.

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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanat0s View Post
    only the patient can fill a CII...
    as long as both docs know about each other u have no problems.
    Where I currently live, in the great state of Idaho, I have had relatives/friends/acquaintances pick up CII prescriptions many times. They generally have to show ID (the script is in my name), but other than that, no problems. I have had people pick up methadone, dilaudid, fent patches, roxies, etc. To the OP, you said you had a friend that was a Dr. that wrote the script? Why not have them write under the name of one of your friends (that you trust, obviously)?

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  7. #37
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by pullmyhair View Post
    Where I currently live, in the great state of Idaho, I have had relatives/friends/acquaintances pick up CII prescriptions many times. They generally have to show ID (the script is in my name), but other than that, no problems. I have had people pick up methadone, dilaudid, fent patches, roxies, etc. To the OP, you said you had a friend that was a Dr. that wrote the script? Why not have them write under the name of one of your friends (that you trust, obviously)?
    yes, agreed.

    All I had to do was give the birthdate of the person with the script... person w/ script called in pharmacy before and told them I'd be picking it up.. no ID or anything.
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    First, stop being so paranoid about the script monitoring program.

    The program itself cannot start an investigation of a doc or patient. It's a resource for authorities to use AFTER an investigation has started. The state computer can't spit your name out and say "hey, this person is getting two of the same scripts.....". Doesn't work like that.

    PA has a script monitoring program, where I get my meds filled and the pharm never asked for my drivers license so whoever said that is full of it. NJ does NOT have a program but is in the process of getting one. Probably up and running in a year or two but as of now, nothing.

    Only way you'll get in trouble is if the authorities are already looking at you or one of your docs but the script monitoring program will never be the initial start of an investigation.....never.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBRONCFAN View Post
    First, stop being so paranoid about the script monitoring program.

    The program itself cannot start an investigation of a doc or patient. It's a resource for authorities to use AFTER an investigation has started. The state computer can't spit your name out and say "hey, this person is getting two of the same scripts.....". Doesn't work like that.

    PA has a script monitoring program, where I get my meds filled and the pharm never asked for my drivers license so whoever said that is full of it. NJ does NOT have a program but is in the process of getting one. Probably up and running in a year or two but as of now, nothing.

    Only way you'll get in trouble is if the authorities are already looking at you or one of your docs but the script monitoring program will never be the initial start of an investigation.....never.
    Sorry but this is completely incorrect. Prescription monitoring programs are specifically intended to catch people who obtain multiple prescriptions. It is to monitor patients only. Doctors' prescribing of controlled substances is monitored differently.

    Prescription monitoring programs will 'flag' a patient who is receiving multiple controlled substance prescriptions from different doctors. The exact criteria that triggers this will of course vary from system to system. Some may only flag a patient if they receive two concurrent prescriptions from two different doctors for the exact same controlled substance. Others may flag a patient if they receive multiple prescriptions from different doctors for any controlled substances.

    Once a patient is flagged, what happens next also varies. Some systems will automatically alert the pharmacist when they fill the second prescription, who is then charged with contacting both doctors to verify that they know about each other. Other systems may get law enforcement involved when a patient is flagged.

    To truly understand the monitoring system in your state, you need to find the local laws/statutes/directives concerning the system.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBRONCFAN View Post
    First, stop being so paranoid about the script monitoring program.

    The program itself cannot start an investigation of a doc or patient. It's a resource for authorities to use AFTER an investigation has started. The state computer can't spit your name out and say "hey, this person is getting two of the same scripts.....". Doesn't work like that.

    PA has a script monitoring program, where I get my meds filled and the pharm never asked for my drivers license so whoever said that is full of it. NJ does NOT have a program but is in the process of getting one. Probably up and running in a year or two but as of now, nothing.

    Only way you'll get in trouble is if the authorities are already looking at you or one of your docs but the script monitoring program will never be the initial start of an investigation.....never.


    why are you always talking out of your ass? you need to stop being wrong all the time. Seriously.
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  11. #41
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mainline View Post
    why are you always talking out of your ass? you need to stop being wrong all the time. Seriously.
    Actually, he is not off base in his post. The regulations vary from state to state, but in MA what jbronc said is true.

    The purpose of the Pmp is for trend analysis. The regulatory body overseeing the program is not a law enforcement agency. The data is not freely available to anyone who wants it, (ie dea, FBI, local le, etc.) the data from the Pmp must be requested and currently the regulations say this about Pmp data requests:

    Official law enforcement agencies may request data from the Pmp system only when.. "
    acting in accordance with official duties in conducting a bona fide investigation;” and, with respect to law enforcement agencies, “acting in accordance with official duties in conducting a bona fide criminal investigation or prosecution of criminal violations.”

    There were proposed amendments to change this language to broaden it and make it easier for law enforcement and investigatory agencies to request transmission of pmp data, but those amendments were denied.

    PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT NOT EVERY STATE HAS THE SAME REGULATIONS. Some states do not require proof of investigation and potentially send LE bodies data on potential violations of controlled substance law.
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by degausser View Post
    Actually, he is not off base in his post. The regulations vary from state to state, but in MA what jbronc said is true....PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT NOT EVERY STATE HAS THE SAME REGULATIONS. Some states do not require proof of investigation and potentially send LE bodies data on potential violations of controlled substance law.
    That's exactly the problem. Jbronc is saying that prescription monitoring systems can *never* be the basis for starting an investigation on or taking action against a patient. But not all of the systems used work like this. Most in fact do use the prescription monitoring system to initiate an investigation. The OP is from PA, not MA, so MA's usage of their prescription monitoring system has nothing to do with how Pennsylvania does it.

    Like you said, every state has different regulations concerning prescription monitoring. But the whole point of these systems is to catch patients who are illegally obtaining multiple controlled substance prescriptions through doctor shopping.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    There's no argument here, jersey_emt.

    The point of my post was to illustrate that the laws vary state-by-state, so to say that jbronc is completely wrong is untrue. Of course, to spread information that no state can flag pdmp data for the purpose of starting an investigation could prove damaging to members who may rely on that information.

    This brings up a good point. We need more information on pdmps. The laws (in the case of pa) are based on state statute that has not been modified since the inception of the state's pdmp. If you go to PAs AG's website, there is absolutely no information pertaining to the program. Maybe we should start a thread where we research (not speculate) and post laws pertaining to different states pdmps? The laws vary do much state-to-state that it would be beneficial to the community to have such a thread.

    I'm going to do a quick search. If there's nothing like this out there, I would be happy to start the thread.

    Follow up: it seems that roxi*stardust already made a thread about pdmps. When I get the time I will post what I have found there through my research on the subject. The laws vary GREATLY from state-to-state. Consult your state statute before assuming anything about these programs.
    Last edited by degausser; 12-21-2010 at 05:53 AM.
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  14. #44
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    Default Re: prescription monitoring? Two scripts?

    Here is another thread with some info about PDMPs.

    The poster who said the programs are a resource for authorities to use AFTER an investigation has been started is completely wrong. Get your facts straight before talking out of your ass dickpuppet--you're going to get people in trouble if they're dumb enough to listen to you.

    The whole point of the programs are to provide a resource for any and all health care providers--including docs, pharmacists, urgent care clinics, cvs minute clinics, ERs, etc. to see what scripts you have filled and when. They are logged by various identifying info, usually your name, birthdate, and in some states, driver's license #, they have nothing at all to do with insurance.

    Any pharmacy or doc you go to can pull up these records and see every script you have filled in the past however many years the program has been in effect. Policies vary from state to state and pharmacy to pharmacy. It is the policy of some pharmacies to pull up the prescription records of all new customers and some pull it up anytime someone fills a controlled substance. Many doctor's offices pull it up before they write a controlled substance script.

    So check your state regulations. I can post a link if you can't figure out how to use google. And try not to double dip because even if you aren't necessarily charged with a crime, pharmacy techs to medical providers can flag your record for suspicious activity or simply refuse to write or fill your script.
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