My experiment is coming full circle.

[Loki]

This post will be mainly for the Pain patients out there, but I guess it could apply to others as well. Tomorrow I'm going to drop a urine test for my doctor. This should give us a good indication as to whether Loperamide AKA Imodium will show up on a standard 5 panel test and also too see what happens when my sample is sent to the lab for GC/MS.


I personally have wondered this, and I know I have read others asking this question elsewhere on the internets. Information about this subject has been obscure at best and nobody that I know has given first hand results. Listed below is my initial thread to give you specifics of my original experiment.

Im not that great at articulating what is going on in my head so if you dont understand or have questions, ask before flaming me.

Here's the specifics.

1) I am an exclusive Opiophile. I do not use any other drugs.
2) I have intentionally stopped all other drugs as of last friday, and have been exclusively on Lope. I did this to make sure the other opiates had time to clear my system. I am also not on any long acting opiates like methadone. Everything is short acting.
3) I am not going to try and evade this test in any way by drinking tons of water or taking adulterants.

Here is the link to my original thread if your interested. http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=31780

[LayinLow]

Looking forward to the results Loki.

[Billy the kid]

Obviously loperamide (being the reverse ester of demerol) will not show up on a standard test. However, I am very interested what you are going to tell them when they ask you why the concentrations of loperamide were 100x the recommended dose if they GC/MS.

[Loki]

Obviously loperamide (being the reverse ester of demerol) will not show up on a standard test. However, I am very interested what you are going to tell them when they ask you why the concentrations of loperamide were 100x the recommended dose if they GC/MS.

Good point. My last dose of Lope was lastnight around 9:30. I have not dosed since. So if Lope's halflife is on average 10.8 hrs by 21.6 hrs there should be approixamtely 25% of the last dose taken in my system.

Peak levels of the drug are approximately 4hr's after initial ingestion from what I have read. So I guess my target time would be around 4hrs before dropping my urine.

amidoinitrite?

[LayinLow]

So you want really high levels for the test, or you're trying to get them down, but still have it there as to see what pops up? Sorry I'm a little confused.

[Loki]

So you want really high levels for the test, or you're trying to get them down, but still have it there as to see what pops up? Sorry I'm a little confused.

No, I will dose 4hr's before I go in to drop urine. My last reply was more or less giving the information on Lope.

[Ludakris]

I'm rather uneducated on your situation...but...aren't you going to be withdrawing pretty bad by the time you take the test? Is that going to cause any problems?

[Loki]

I'm rather uneducated on your situation...but...aren't you going to be withdrawing pretty bad by the time you take the test? Is that going to cause any problems?

Read my initial thread, I mean this with all due respect. Short answer is no.

[port rhombus]

Does your clinic outsource urine testing through one of the major national labs?

I have a feeling that most "pain care" GC/MS protocols don't include loperamide.

I'm curious to see how this turns out...

[normus420]

Wait im confused I am assuming that your doctor doesnt prescribe you any pain meds or anything that needs to show up in your ua? I dont know why you would be getting a ua unless you were on meds. If you are then you need to be on them when you take this test because I know people that have been dropped by the doctor for not having oxy in there system. They will assume you are selling them.

[Loki]

Wait im confused I am assuming that your doctor doesnt prescribe you any pain meds or anything that needs to show up in your ua? I dont know why you would be getting a ua unless you were on meds. If you are then you need to be on them when you take this test because I know people that have been dropped by the doctor for not having oxy in there system. They will assume you are selling them.

See here is a perfect example how I not only fail at life, but also fail at explaining shit. LOL. Ok, no, im am on ongoing opioid based therapy. I get pills every month. This month I was due and when I called the pharmacy to get a refill, they or my docs office F'd up and some how things did not go through. I called yesterday and was told she could not write until I was seen for a physical as it had been some time.

Yes, im in withdrawls, but because of the lope they are manageable. Im not claiming to be some hardass, I just keep my whining to a minimum.

I will be dipstick tested on the spot, and then will have my urine sent out for lab testing per my docs policy. Did that help??

[Morphine]

according to a post of his in the other thread he linked, he's on the 50mcg fent patches, as well as hydrocodone as needed for BT. (could be that I'm super fucked up on morphine, but that might've been someone else, no wait, that was the russian on fent powder I'm thinking of, I have the right info up there).

and he's right about having them in your system when being tested for them. the fent they might not test for, but they might test for the hydrocodone. I dunono about thateither tho, both of toe require a seperate test. the ones I've seen at walgreens that do all the drugs and a wide variety of opiates costed $60 I think. I'm sure everything will be ok though.

speaking of crazy drug tests, my mom had to take one for wal-mart pharmacy job, and they sent her to the local hospital to give a urine sample it was like a 13 panel test or something, I was like "I didn't even know there was 13 different kinds of drugs!", I said jokingly. I think I remember it saying it evnen ested for anti-depressants, which I don't know what would fall under that, because she ws taking paxil at the time, and they said se showed negative for everything. even crazier is that she's a stoner, and smoked like 2-3 weeks before that.


*edit*
you added a post while I was typing this. ok, so I see your doc is expecting you to drop clean of everything. thats pretty shitty that because of their fuck up, you have to go into withdrawals. yeah, for CII meds, they gotta see ya at least once a month. I get seen about every other day by my oncologist, so if I run out of my morphine on a day when I'm not scheduled to be there, they have no problems writing my script out and having it at the front counter for (usually) my mother to pick up on her way home from school. as a matter of fact, I did that day before yesterday, except I got the script myself, and I had to fuckin' wait until like 3:30 for my fther to get off work for a ride to the docs office. my moms car broke down that day. so I woke up thinking I'm gettin my meds at noon, then about 3 hours later I find out that Im gonna have to take on another 4 hours... nothing worse than being sick and having to wait HOURS.

[Billy the kid]

They don't necessarily need to "see" you every month. I've had docs that would see me for my OC once every 3 months and post date the scripts.

This came in very handy until I tried to fill the last one and the pharmacy wouldn't fill it because my doc had his license revoked. That was a shitty day.

[Morphine]

They don't necessarily need to "see" you every month. I've had docs that would see me for my OC once every 3 months and post date the scripts.

This came in very handy until I tried to fill the last one and the pharmacy wouldn't fill it because my doc had his license revoked. That was a shitty day.

could the fact that he was writing post dated CII scripts have anything to do with him having his license revoked? because I'm thinking so.

legally, you do have to be seen every month for a CII script. but like you said, it is possible to get the meds your way, but I'm pretty sure thats illegal, and most likely that and the doc was probably script happy is why he no longer is a doc.

[Ludakris]

could the fact that he was writing post dated CII scripts have anything to do with him having his license revoked? because I'm thinking so.

legally, you do have to be seen every month for a CII script. but like you said, it is possible to get the meds your way, but I'm pretty sure thats illegal, and most likely that and the doc was probably script happy is why he no longer is a doc.

the legality on this is a bit strangely written. My doctor I generally see 4 times a year and he writes 3 scripts for a month each. In the section that says "date" they must put the fill date, what they are NOT allowed to do, is write 3 scripts with the same date and at the bottom put "do not fill until xx/xx/xxxx" by law the dr can write up to 3 months at a time.

that's the way I understand it, anyways.

Read my initial thread, I mean this with all due respect. Short answer is no.

And forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to figure out what exactly is going on...the way I am grasping this is at one point you went in for a study in which they replace your opi's with lope? Is that true?

You get monthly opi scripts from your dr, correct? If so, why do you want nothing to show up on the drug test they are going to do? Wouldn't you want your RX to show up?

All in all, this sounds rather fascinating, but equally confusing.

[AndiPandi]

My doctor will write for 3 months at a time. This wasn't legally always the case. I want to say about a year ago this changed and was told by the doc that the law changed and they can do that now. I think it's up to the doc if they want to or not. My scripts are usually dated the day they write them and the day to be filled.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

the

And forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to figure out what exactly is going on...the way I am grasping this is at one point you went in for a study in which they replace your opi's with lope? Is that true?

You get monthly opi scripts from your dr, correct? If so, why do you want nothing to show up on the drug test they are going to do? Wouldn't you want your RX to show up?

All in all, this sounds rather fascinating, but equally confusing.

Ah -I don't mean to speak for Loki
and please correct me if I'm wrong
but
his initial thread was a SELF STUDY- meaning he took and did this experiment upon his self.
to try and give US a better grasp on using Lope
and
in regard to the want for no RX to show up on screening, from what I gather here-
Short answer, something fuckered up between Dr.-> pharmacy and may needs to see Dr. first
for a quick exam and urine test- then gets refill script.
Basically he should not have meds or script ATM

also
He ask this thread to stay to the point---of Lope and urine screening
so
let's NOT wander to far into how varies Dr. may or may not writes Sch. II scripts
that not purpose of this thread

YES -fascinating indeed-
salute to you Loki

[More Feen]

could the fact that he was writing post dated CII scripts have anything to do with him having his license revoked? because I'm thinking so.

legally, you do have to be seen every month for a CII script. but like you said, it is possible to get the meds your way, but I'm pretty sure thats illegal, and most likely that and the doc was probably script happy is why he no longer is a doc.

For my C-II Rx, I am seen every 3 months, and get one Rx at that appointment. Then I call them the next month, and have to pick up the new Rx, and do it again the NEXT month. Then it is appointment time again.

Since it is a C-II, they cannot call it into the pharmacy.

A couple of years ago, my doctor would post-date 2 scripts, for the next two months, but the pharmacy didn't like it, and even threatened to refuse the Rx.

Now with my new doctors, they are doing it the right way.

I'm sure its mostly a federal mandate, but some states may have an even-stricter process.

M F

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

For my C-II Rx, I am seen every 3 months, and get one Rx at that appointment. Then I call them the next month, and have to pick up the new Rx, and do it again the NEXT month.
Since it is a C-II, they cannot call it into the pharmacy.
I'm sure its mostly a federal mandate, but some states may have an even-stricter process.

M F

On spot per the norm M F

Seen once by my GP/Internist & scripted
following months simply call ahead for hard copies then-
hard copies are picked up and sign for at front desk.
Repeat every month- (legally the minimum applied)

-of course Dr/patient role figures into Dr.own policy
(Pain clinic contracts are in their own an entirely different situation)

[OxyRush Limbaugh]

see doc every 3 months get a script good for all 3, refilled every 31 days, no sooner.

well loki, it's now 3:30PM. YOU get an answer today or do we have to wait?

[Morphine]

by law the dr can write up to 3 months at a time.

I swear for a CII they can only write for a month at a time. maybe a law has changed, but I thought you had to be seen by the doc at least once a month to get the schedule II script. like, he physically has to touch you or something.

the closest mine has gotten to post-date is that I was gonna run out of meds on the weekend(really I was already out at this meeting)and it was like a wednesday or something, so he just wrote the fill date for that saturday.

More Feen, the way you're doing it def doesn't sound legit, but hey, if he does it, let him do it. saves you money on an appt every month.

but again, maybe something has changed, because I thought for benzo's you could only write for 3 months, but the last script for my 2mg diazepam (why such a low dose, doc?) I got that month, plus 3 refills, so it was wrote for 4 months. of which, next month is the last refill of those. I'm gonna try to switch to like clonazapam, or at least raise my valium up.
but then again, I always swore up and down that benzos were CIII, and really they're onl CIV, but they're still hard as fuck to get scripted, unless you have cancer I guess, heh.

[smackNcheez]

Morphine, it may be that the laws regarding how often one must physically visit the doc for CII's are more stringent in your state (AZ). I am originally from OR, and there they follow the federal, but here in SC, they have more stringent laws, more like what you've described experiencing. The federal laws allow for a maximum of 90 day supplies, but if a state has more stringent requirements, then those would supersede what the federal laws are.

Loki...I've been wondering where you were. Haven't seen much of you. Glad to see you around. And I'm looking forward to seeing what the lab results on this are. Thanks for the info.

[Loki]

The dipstick test came back negative on everything. I dosed about 4 hr's before going in on a higher dose than I would normally take for good measure. I actually felt rather comfortable... I was chatty feeling.. ya know?


Something to take a note on, my blood pressure was really up this time around. 160/110 to be exact. My Pulse was also up. I did not consume any caffeine nor was I nervous as in reality I was not really doing anything illegal. I have high BP to begin with, but It has been controlled for years easily with a little oral clonidine. ...Strange...

My doc apologized and assured me everyone was having to take urine tests and I just said "no problem, you gotta protect your license and I respect that". The rest of my sample was sent to an independent lab and results will be in on Monday. I will inquire about them on Monday as this is where my curiosity is really peaked at.

Since this thread got side tracked a little bit, I will further comment. I forget to mention I am on the patch, my bad. I did not mean to hide that as I have no reason too. This is why I included the link to my original thread because I knew something would slip my mind. My doc does not write refills for my CIII's but for my CII's I get them post dated. My CIII's get phoned in each month and every 90 days i have to make an appearance. My doc does not give her other patients the luxury that I have in regards to the scripting. She makes them come in every month for a visit. The reason I know this is because she told me.

Over the years I have developed a relationship of trust with my doc. I am hardcore about following her rules and I honestly think this is what has afforded me the not having to come in every month. In the last 2 years I have only asked for 1 early refill and it was because I was going on vacation. I actually read her contract and I follow it like written scripture. Examples, using the same pharmacy and only using a different one if I call in first with a legit reason. The one time I had too use a different pharmacy was because my pharmacy was out of my patches. I never get angry about anything nor do I constantly ask for higher doses of my drugs.

In return for playing by her rules, she takes care of my pain issues and allows me a little more freedom in regards to not having to come in every month. In my area, the DEA has gone nazi with doctors and they all are nervous about writing these days.


EDIT: TL;DR Dipstick test came back negative, independent lab tests will be in Monday.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Thanks Loki

just to clarify -did you wear the patch before test or tested on with Lope alone?
-what is independent lab going to screen for?
-what is your controlled B/P average in past?
-and you said pulse was up- how far up?

any vision problems remaining?


Hoping you feel well- brave & bravo

[Loki]

Thanks Loki

just to clarify -did you wear the patch before test or tested on with Lope alone?
-what is independent lab going to screen for?
-what is your controlled B/P average in past?
-and you said pulse was up- how far up?

any vision problems remaining?


Hoping you feel well- brave & bravo

1) On paper I was out of medications so I went in that way. So it was Lope alone that was in my system.
2) The independent lab from what I was told is "checking for everything" analysis.
3) With BP meds, im at the 120/80 mark with minor variances.
4) The pulse ox meter said my heart rate was 110. I have been sitting for 20 minutes or more so it was my resting heart rate.

As of today because I took 200'mg of lope my vision is a little screwed up. It will be back to normal in the next day or two.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

1) On paper I was out of medications so I went in that way. So it was Lope alone that was in my system.
2) The independent lab from what I was told is "checking for everything" analysis.
3) With BP meds, im at the 120/80 mark with minor variances.
4) The pulse ox meter said my heart rate was 110. I have been sitting for 20 minutes or more so it was my resting heart rate.

As of today because I took 200'mg of lope my vision is a little screwed up. It will be back to normal in the next day or two.

Thanks for info,man
110 is pretty(very ) high rest PR

It kind of sound almost like your body was reacting like it was in WDs but you where not. Though having history of high BP may skew that.
But you did feel ok.

Looking forward and Interested to see Monday results,

EDIT- wondering if you ever had vision problems on other high opiates dose.?

[Morphine]

pulse-ox meter on me always says I have a real fast pulse. it gets up to 160 sometimes. my blood pressure is normally fine. my blood/oxygen or whatever is usually 97+, when I first went to the hospital and found out I had leukemia and they kept me for a month. well, the first few days I was in the ICU and they had me hooked up to all kinds of things, shit all across my chest and stuff. well, and I also had on the oxygen tube, that goes behnd your ears and blows air into our nose, or whatever it does exactly....is annoying. but when I first got there my blood/oxygen would get down to like 60% I think, it was super low, the machine would start beeping and I'd have to take a few deep breaths and stuff. it almost became a game, because I'd take that hose out of my nose, and within' like 5 mins, that machine would be beeping again.

that was just the worst hospital stay, almost like jail, except I could have outside food, and I got pain medicine. I wasn't allowed to leave my room (had no immune system), so in order to leave my room I'd have to don one of those blue masks. for the first week, I was getting chemo 24/7. litterally 7 days of chemo all day long, as soon as one bag was done, they'd bring in another one. I also got about a zillion blood and platelet transfusions.

they did have flatscreen t.v.'s in my room, I also got a private room (it was meant for 2 people, so it was a big room) because I didn't have an immune system. (so I actually had 2 flatscreens, sometimes my dad would watch one while I watched the other). all the nurses were EXTREMELY nice to me. except for one, and after the night she told me she was pissed off at me, I never saw her again. (she had asked if I needed my pain meds, I said no, then about 30-45 mins later I got a pain out of nowhere in my hip that was real bad, so I pushed my button, of course its always a helper who comes, never a nurse. tell her I need some pain meds. well, she comes into my room another half hour later, telling me she's pissed off at me because she had just asked if I needed it and I said no. actually made me cry, because I was already tore up enough about the cancer, now I got some pretty, young girl telling me I'm pissing her off and stuff.

anywayz, I forgot why I'm posting this, or where I was taking it, so I'm gonna end it here. this morphine is startin' to make my mind cloudy all the time.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

pulse-ox meter on me always says I have a real fast pulse. it gets up to 160 sometimes.
<snipe>

anywayz, I forgot why I'm posting this, or where I was taking it, so I'm gonna end it here. this morphine is startin' to make my mind cloudy all the time.

anywayz- thinks me grown rather use to that in a few short day- heh

srsly going OT -
@ Morphine please careful because 160 BPM, is very fucking high.
you sound smart, be smart ----just saying, stay safe OK buddy.
---

sorry to derail Loki

[normus420]

See here is a perfect example how I not only fail at life, but also fail at explaining shit. LOL. Ok, no, im am on ongoing opioid based therapy. I get pills every month. This month I was due and when I called the pharmacy to get a refill, they or my docs office F'd up and some how things did not go through. I called yesterday and was told she could not write until I was seen for a physical as it had been some time.

Yes, im in withdrawls, but because of the lope they are manageable. Im not claiming to be some hardass, I just keep my whining to a minimum.

I will be dipstick tested on the spot, and then will have my urine sent out for lab testing per my docs policy. Did that help??

Yep I understand now yea I read your other thread about the fent and hydrocodone so I knew u must be getting somthing. That sucks they fucked up and you had to go with out but such is life. Im also interested in seeing if the lab will detect any lope in your system. What if they do and your doctor asks why you have such high levels of lope in your system. I dont think it will show up but who knows. Do you have an answer for your doc if she asks about it?

[doctor diesel]

1) On paper I was out of medications so I went in that way. So it was Lope alone that was in my system.
2) The independent lab from what I was told is "checking for everything" analysis.
3) With BP meds, im at the 120/80 mark with minor variances.
4) The pulse ox meter said my heart rate was 110. I have been sitting for 20 minutes or more so it was my resting heart rate.

As of today because I took 200'mg of lope my vision is a little screwed up. It will be back to normal in the next day or two.

I've got say Loki, you're looking pretty pale as well, so I'm worried.
This should interest you. A few months back I went to see my subutex support worker and she got me to piss in a cup, which she doesn't often do. She got an instant reading off the side of the thing, and it suggested I had morphine in my system, which I didn't.
She was only mildly miffed, but said she'd send it off to the lab for a full workout anyway.
Next time I see her - about a month later - she informs me that the lab test came back negative for morph, so it was just a glitsch of this instant readout shit, but interestingly, she also said the lab had observed that I had oxymetazoline and naratriptan in my piss.
I was gobsmacked! Why the fuck were they testing my piss for Sinex decongestant and migraine reliever?
The moral of this tale is that I don't believe they were testing for those things, it's just that a modern lab workout on your piss seems to reveal anything and EVERYTHING that's in there.
So Loki, you might get fingered for loperamide abuse in due course. Not that it should matter!



Doc