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Thread: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

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    Default Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Hey there guys. I don't want to get into too many personal details, but I was wondering if it is OK to give a large 140lbs Dog a bit of Oral methadone?

    I have done a preliminary search and can't find anything conclusive. Some reseach have said its actually a good narcotic for dogs, other research papers are too vague to really go into effectivness or saftey at all.

    Main reason for wanting to do this is my damn vet didn't RX enough post surgury pain control IMO, and I know he won't RX more if my gut feeling is right. And I just can't let my poor guy suffer like this. He was given 1 shot of dilaudid when I picked him up and thats it. I would like him to get at least one good nights rest. Of coarse I will stay up and monitor him.

    So like I said I don't want to get into much detail, but I sure would appreciate thoughts on saftey, dosage, effectivness for seveer post op pain. Vets, nurses, chemists etc???

    Also what would you say a 140lbs human would require of methadone if they were fairly naive? From what I understand dogs actually have a higher tolerancve to opiates then us.

    Thanks all.

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Without some damn solid proof that it's not toxic and without feeling extremely confortable about dosage, I wouldn't consider MD for my dog, maybe a non-synthetic opi, but not methadone, that's my $.02..
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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by norseman View Post
    Hey there guys. I don't want to get into too many personal details, but I was wondering if it is OK to give a large 140lbs Dog a bit of Oral methadone?

    I have done a preliminary search and can't find anything conclusive. Some reseach have said its actually a good narcotic for dogs, other research papers are too vague to really go into effectivness or saftey at all.

    Main reason for wanting to do this is my damn vet didn't RX enough post surgury pain control IMO, and I know he won't RX more if my gut feeling is right. And I just can't let my poor guy suffer like this. He was given 1 shot of dilaudid when I picked him up and thats it. I would like him to get at least one good nights rest. Of coarse I will stay up and monitor him.

    So like I said I don't want to get into much detail, but I sure would appreciate thoughts on saftey, dosage, effectivness for seveer post op pain. Vets, nurses, chemists etc???

    Also what would you say a 140lbs human would require of methadone if they were fairly naive? From what I understand dogs actually have a higher tolerancve to opiates then us.

    Thanks all.

    No clue on your question brother, just wanted to say I hope he feels better.
    Being a huge dog fan myself - I'd be really pissed if my vet did that shit to me. He's a part of the family.
    (it's mostly peeps taking their dogs stash - not someone sharing their stash with their dog, only a true friend would do that. )





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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Thanks Chops. I do have so papers showing research done on dogs and they actually found it to be useful to goalong with anathesia I guess the half life. But ya need more then just that before I am doing anthing.

    Keep the post comming folks. Anymore exoeriances

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by alowishus View Post
    No clue on your question brother, just wanted to say I hope he feels better.
    Being a huge dog fan myself - I'd be really pissed if my vet did that shit to me. He's a part of the family.
    (it's mostly peeps taking their dogs stash - not someone sharing their stash with their dog, only a true friend would do that. )
    ya bro, if the Dr actually RXd my boy a decent amount of dilly then maybe I would think about a little trade, but that one dilly is long gone and my best bud is not feeling too well right now.

    edit
    Oh ya, forgot to say I can get my hands on some oxy 5mg, no APAP just oxy. Is Oxy cool for a dog. I just dont got it on me now but for sure swim should be able to have some by morn.
    Last edited by norseman; 04-30-2010 at 10:11 PM. Reason: more shit

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    i know tramadol is if you have any of that

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Ya I was giving him tramadol pre-op. Did not seem to do much and i got none left. If the meth does work, it would be great just to give him a couple mls tonight so he can get a bit of rest. Things look up on the oxy. But that will be tommerow.

    I am sure he is gonna been in some major for the next few days at least.

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    I did I little more reading and it seems Methadone is used quite comonly with dogs, especially larger dogs IV and is now being prefered in many cases, escpecially for the surgury my dog just had. In fact I listed an article which states that oral methadone is the prefered after care for the exact surgury my dog had

    I will provide some links to journal articals and such that do describe oral and IV use and dosages of Methadone for dogs and other pets further reading.

    ************************************************** **********************
    http://www.ejbjs.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/140
    Conclusions:
    The present report represents the first known study of the use of intra-articular methadone and establishes that this analgesic is safe at a single dose of 5 mg. At this dose, however, methadone does not provide improved postoperative analgesia following arthroscopic anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction. In contrast, intra-articular morphine does appear to be effective for decreasing postoperative pain


    http://www.2ndchance.info/pain.htm
    This article states that methadone is one of the best pain control medicines for dogs mainly due to not just opioid effect but also, NMDA activity.


    http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB...00/PR00009.htm
    Perioperative Use of Opioids in Dogs and Cats
    Sandra Forsyth New Zealand
    INTRODUCTION
    Opioids are commonly administered to dogs and cats in the perioperative period for a number of reasons. They provide analgesia and sedation, and they reduce the subsequent quantity of injectable and inhalational agent required to induce and maintain anesthesia. They can also be administered to induce anesthesia and to supplement analgesia during inhalational anesthesia.
    ANALGESIA
    Some of the opioids are potent analgesic agents, others are much less effective. The route of administration can also affect the efficacy of analgesia provided by the opioids. Oxymorphone, morphine, methadone, and fentanyl provide dose-dependent, moderate to excellent analgesia, whereas butorphanol and meperidine are rather ineffective analgesic agents at most doses. Buprenorphine can provide effective analgesia if the dosage is sufficient.
    Oxymorphone, morphine, and methadone can provide analgesia of moderate duration when given by the parenteral route, whereas fentanyl has too short an action to be a useful analgesic when given this way. Fentanyl patches have been developed which allow for transdermal penetration over a long period to provide long-term (several days) relief for painful patients. Buprenorphine provides analgesia for about 8–12 hours when given parenterally; meperidine or butorphanol are effective for less than two hours.


    http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB...00/PR00009.htm

    http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets...in-pearson.pdf

    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0
    ************************************************** ********************************


    So if anyone is in a similar bind then maybe take a look back here for a little starting place.
    Also, if anyone has anyother suggestions please add, aswell.

    Also I am not nor is swim saying is going to do this, we just feel a little bit more comfortable if the need does arise.

    Thanks guys.

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    I don't know if this is any help but they gave my cat bupe via oral syringe post op she was still in a lot of pain after

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Dogs have a completely different opioid tolerance than humans (much higher).

    It's likely you won't do shit by giving him "a bit of oral methadone" and too much... well you know what happens...

    A good sized completely opioid naive dog can handle a 100 mcg fent patch.
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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by Spork View Post
    Dogs have a completely different opioid tolerance than humans (much higher).

    It's likely you won't do shit by giving him "a bit of oral methadone" and too much... well you know what happens...

    A good sized completely opioid naive dog can handle a 100 mcg fent patch.

    but be careful you dont want to kill him.

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    I really think you should call the vet and explain the situation before even considering this. You said your "gut feeling" was that the vet wouldnt give the dog anymore. Screw your gut feeling just CALL THEM. My experience is that vets are much more comfortable giving out narcotics than people docs.

    They might not give you dillies but Im almost sure that if you're dog is in pain they will give him something. A lot of vets like to use bupe, tramadol, or their fav is torbutrol (butorphanol similar to levorphanol but a partial ag /antag). Good luck and I would advise NOT giving any methadone to a dog until you exhaust all of your options. Even then it would be risky.

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the kid View Post

    A lot of vets like to use bupe, tramadol, or their fav is torbutrol (butorphanol similar to levorphanol but a partial ag /antag). Good luck and I would advise NOT giving any methadone to a dog until you exhaust all of your options. Even then it would be risky.
    True this. Maybe it's my local vet but anytime I took a dog in for the last ten years he was given Butorphanol. Oh, and valium to ease that nervousness.
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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Sorry for just getting back to you all now, (lost my internet connect). So thanks for all the advice.

    Truth is; I did call the Dr in question and let him know the extent of my boys pain before I gave him anything myself, and, he had me come in and pick up a rx bottle of codeine for him.

    Its funny... I just had the same dog in for a very similar surgery with a different vet and he was very well treated with regards to pain control. He got sent home with 100ug fent patches and 2mg dilaudid for breathrough. Albeit, the first vet was much more expensive, but this second vet was not so liberal with the pain meds, and cheaper too; but, I must say I can tell the surgury went far better this time and my dog is all ready bouncing back, so all is good.

    Just felt real bad the other night hearing him wimper in pain the first few nights. Oh and the codeine he got did fuck all. In fact I can't even get him to eat them anymore in cheese, damn smart dog. But, he loved the dilaudid and fent the first time, go figure, junky dog knows the goods when he's got it, hehe!

    (Word to the wise)
    Dogs are expensive folks!! Got this boy for free from a rescue and he is already making up for it... a few thousand later. I hope he is cool with that figure, if not he has just got a big head and thinks he is something special How can you say no tho. shit my poor credit card!! errr

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Glad he's doing ok. They might cost $ but pets are so worth it. I REALLY miss having a dog, but current living situation just doesn't permit it. I love my cat, but nothing compares to a great dog. I like them better than most people.
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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by norseman View Post
    Sorry for just getting back to you all now, (lost my internet connect). So thanks for all the advice.

    Tese, damn smart dog. But, he loved the dilaudid and fent the first time, go figure, junky dog knows the goods when he's got it, hehe!

    (Word to the wise)
    Dogs are expensive folks!! Got this boy for free from a rescue and he is already making up for it... a few thousand later. I hope he is cool with that figure, if not he has just got a big head and thinks he is something special How can you say no tho. shit my poor credit card!! errr
    glad to hear he is ok, i am a HUGE animal lover, have been in your shoes too - my last 2 dogs were from shelter, one was a young pit-mix, my friend scooped him up, now happy in virginia...
    my current dog was a bit older, nobody ever wanted to adopt her (because she was 'too old' ) but she is the absolute best dog ever- i used her to work with adults, then kids with autism, as well as developmentally/retarded teens/kids/adults - incredibly docile, gentle old girl (despite her doberman size), she was our 'therapy' dog, everyone loves her, even kids who didn't speak to humans would lay next to her and chat away.....
    Now getting to that point, she is really getting old, it is so painful....each vet visit is a minimum $400 hit on my mastercard, and i am not into heroic measures- this is standard bloodwork/vetting....
    Pets are expensive, and there is NO shortcut to treatments -
    make sure you are able to pay when you adopt/buy (never should, unless you know breeder personally)...it is a lot of $ but worth every last cent - hell i gave up heroin to pay off vet bills.
    worth a million in prizes.

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    You and me both Jdub, I gotta have a dog around somewhere. And ya, I would put it at around 90%... I would def rather spend time with my dog then 90% of the people I meet these days.

    The above statement don't apply to the good folks of the phile but shit I have been meeting some real creeps lately, specially some real dirtbags in my clinic! Can't figure these blokes out that for sure.

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    It sucks when our pets are sick and are in pain.

    They can't tell us how much it hurts, where and why, but they do give us clues.

    I had to put one of my two cats down last year, right after Thanksgiving.

    She was 14 and had some strange feline illness that was causing her insides to become red, raw and irritated.

    She was unable to eat or drink and she was in a lot of pain.

    It would have cost thousand's of dollars to even to try to diagnose the problem, so sadly, I made the choice to have her put down.

    If I had the money, I would have spared no expense to save her, even at her advanced age.

    She was in a lot of pain, so I had the Kitty Dr. give her some strong pain meds as it would be an hour before she could put her down, so I wanted my Cat to be nice and high and comfortable before she died.

    I cried like a little girl when she went, and I miss her every day.
    I mean, I'm 50 years old and cried nearly uncontrollably as I thought it was just some infection that could be treated with antibiotics when I brought her to the vet.

    Her adopted sister misses her as well and cried out loudly exactly 24 hours to the minute after she was put down.

    She knew.

    Funny how these little furry creatures have such a profound impact on us.

    They're smart little characters too.

    I can't imagine my life without a cat or two.


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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    ^ you just made me cry.^
    at that age though, it almost isn't fair to them to keep taking outrageous measures...i do agree, they know, and life is NOT worth living without some kind of canine/feline companion! (although i love my reptiles/rodents too)
    worth a million in prizes.

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by nycjrt View Post
    glad to hear he is ok, i am a HUGE animal lover, have been in your shoes too - my last 2 dogs were from shelter, one was a young pit-mix, my friend scooped him up, now happy in virginia...
    my current dog was a bit older, nobody ever wanted to adopt her (because she was 'too old' ) but she is the absolute best dog ever- i used her to work with adults, then kids with autism, as well as developmentally/retarded teens/kids/adults - incredibly docile, gentle old girl (despite her doberman size), she was our 'therapy' dog, everyone loves her, even kids who didn't speak to humans would lay next to her and chat away.....
    Now getting to that point, she is really getting old, it is so painful....each vet visit is a minimum $400 hit on my mastercard, and i am not into heroic measures- this is standard bloodwork/vetting....
    Pets are expensive, and there is NO shortcut to treatments -
    make sure you are able to pay when you adopt/buy (never should, unless you know breeder personally)...it is a lot of $ but worth every last cent - hell i gave up heroin to pay off vet bills.
    Thats great to hear bro, sounds like she really made a difference in their lives.

    I got 3 dogs, two would be perfect for the type of work you did with your girl. But I got this one dog, just full of life and energy galore, I would love to start training him to track, like a cadaver dog or missing children or something cool like a DRUG DOG!!! Ya man this dog has the nose, drive and brain to be good at it, so I am actually looking for a little group that I might be able to join in the area that can help get us into it. Like a SAR group Search and Rescue. I think he would dig it and it would be cool for me to get my head off the dope and onto something else for a bit.

    edit: Just had to add that I think you did the right think Vico-Dan. at that age its not fair to try and keep them going, sometimes its would be worse keep them around for a fe more mths especially if they would be in pain a it sound like your cat would have been. Really odd diagnoses those. like rampant inflammation, sounds awful. Well just wanted to say that I think I would have done the same as you too.
    Last edited by norseman; 05-04-2010 at 12:42 AM. Reason: edit for Vico-Dan

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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    ^ yeah cops would actually come by, asking shelters for dogs they thought might be good prospects, you may want to reach out, as you are in a very different environment^ i had a crazy beagle who would sniff down every crack vial and baggie and needle as you were walking her- i wondered whether she was from a drug home, or maybe just a bastard of two drug sniffin' dogs from JFK
    sounds like you have a house full of love, though!
    worth a million in prizes.

  22. #22
    Jr. Opiophile Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan is just really nice Vico-Dan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by nycjrt View Post
    ^ you just made me cry.^
    at that age though, it almost isn't fair to them to keep taking outrageous measures...i do agree, they know, and life is NOT worth living without some kind of canine/feline companion! (although i love my reptiles/rodents too)
    I made you cry?

    You made me respect you when you said you gave up H for your vet bills.

    Keep rockin' Bro.

    My Cat(s) have saved my life.

    There were some pretty grim times years ago when I thought about checking out, but I knew my Cats would be heartbroken and would miss me, and would spend the rest of their lives waiting for me to come back home.

    Standing at the top of the driveway like they did, waiting for me to come home from work.

    Not to mention, who would take care of them?

    I have saved their lives by adopting them moments before they were to be euthanized by the shelter.

    And they have save my life as well.

    Strange little critters, aren't they.

    Can't live without them though.


    My posts are fictional and are made for entertainment purposes only and they are not a reflection of my actions or of my intentions.


  23. #23
    Dopiophile Moderator jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub is cooler than ice jdub's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by Vico-Dan View Post

    My Cat(s) have saved my life.

    There were some pretty grim times years ago when I thought about checking out, but I knew my Cats would be heartbroken and would miss me, and would spend the rest of their lives waiting for me to come back home.

    Standing at the top of the driveway like they did, waiting for me to come home from work.

    Not to mention, who would take care of them?

    I have saved their lives by adopting them moments before they were to be euthanized by the shelter.

    And they have save my life as well.

    Strange little critters, aren't they.

    Can't live without them though.

    It is interesting how humans have adapted and become emotionally attached to our pets, they become like members of the family, at least in American culture. I have never been truely suicidal, but I do suffer from depression and even when you are at your lowest, knowing that some little furball loves you can have a profound effect. I used to have a couple goldens and when they would come wagging their tails and smiling at you, it was impossible not to smile back. Putting them down were two of the worst days of my life (both got cancer).
    “Sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind but falling in love and not getting arrested.”― Hunter S. Thompson



    I've always lived by the creed that you're never a failure in life if you fall as long as you try and get back up.

    -Evel Knievel

  24. #24
    Jr. Opiophile nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt is just really nice nycjrt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Quote Originally Posted by Vico-Dan View Post
    I made you cry?
    You made me respect you when you said you gave up H for your vet bills.
    Keep rockin' Bro.
    My Cat(s) have saved my life.
    There were some pretty grim times years ago when I thought about checking out, but I knew my Cats would be heartbroken and would miss me, and would spend the rest of their lives waiting for me to come back home.
    Standing at the top of the driveway like they did, waiting for me to come home from work.
    Not to mention, who would take care of them?
    I have saved their lives by adopting them moments before they were to be euthanized by the shelter.
    And they have save my life as well.
    Strange little critters, aren't they.
    Can't live without them though.
    nah- your love came through, any pet owner can relate!
    as for the other things, god know i've been there myself - i think keeping pets around honestly kept me from more serious trouble...even going out to cop i would worry if i got caught, and couldn't make phone call, who would take care of dogs/cats/lizard/etc....not that i didn't/don't fuck up all the time, but when it is a $ issue, dope vs. vet bills = lucky vet!
    worth a million in prizes.

  25. #25
    Departed Opiophile losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer has conned a lot of people to get this much rep losangeleslifer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dogs & Methadone. OK or NO K

    Hope it works out with your pooch.

    A goal of no pain for anyone.
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