Opioids and immune system.

[mamasou]

I have read several studies regarding the claimed immunomodulating effects of opiates and the trend is that they affect the immune system in a negative way.

But from swim's experience (chronic opium use) there seems to be no such effect.

In fact I have, according to swim's experience, seasonal flu and/or other infections have hardly ever occured during chronic use.

On the contrary, prior to using opium, swim suffered from the occasional flu or cold.

So that leads to the notion that there must be some anti-viral/microbial systemic properties associated with natural opiates (at least in the case of opium).

There is no data to refer supporting the above claims, but i might look into it further and come back.

[duck]

I never get sick when strung on opiates, but before I got sick occasionally. Strange.

[Restharrow]

My long time (retired) family dr. had a theory that people addicted to opiates continually run a low grade fever as the drug leaves their system (early phase WD) and the regular low grade fever kills bacteria and viruses.

Before I started taking pain meds, I went thru a 3 year period of CONSTANT sinus infections. These stopped after I started taking vicodin daily.

Will

[mamasou]

Before I started taking pain meds, I went thru a 3 year period of CONSTANT sinus infections. These stopped after I started taking vicodin daily.

Maybe it is a shared property of almost all opiates then.

PS: Vicodin also contains paracetamol right?

[Uncle Wiggly]

I've seldom been sick, dope-sick excluded, since becoming a CP patient. I used to get quite a few sinus infections, colds and upper respiratory problems but haven't been troubled with those in years. Perhaps the low-grade-fever theory is why.

The only time I've been ill since beginning PM is when I came down with H1N1 last year. I was so sick I couldn't keep anything, including my meds, down and had to resort to unconventional ROA.

[Poppylvr]

I've seldom been sick, dope-sick excluded, since becoming a CP patient. I used to get quite a few sinus infections, colds and upper respiratory problems but haven't been troubled with those in years. Perhaps the low-grade-fever theory is why.

The only time I've been ill since beginning PM is when I came down with H1N1 last year. I was so sick I couldn't keep anything, including my meds, down and had to resort to unconventional ROA.

Well huh.
I too have had way less than my usual sneezles and coughs in the 2 years 4 months I've been on subs. I just never realized it until now.
At the risk of derailing, do other people get that "Oh you can't possibly be THAT old" comment all the time? I'm 56 and I get told I look 16 years younger quite a lot. I have fully gray hair and a grandmotherly body ie fat - no wrinkles . I DO look considerably younger than my age. I've told people "hey all the IV morphine preserved me".
Wondering if anyone else gets that comment too.

[Tautou]

I cant comment on the age, but I too, NEVER get sick when on constant opiate regimen. I recall only one time when I was sick, and I woke up feeling ill ( you know how you can tell the diff between dope sickness and actual sickness) but as soon as I dosed (1130 AM, it was a habit for 5 years) I couldnt feel 95% of the effects of the sickness. So maybe we just dont feel it because its masked by the drug? Maybe we are getting sick, just not feeling it? Hmmm.

I love not getting sick though, when I get the REAL flu, I come closer to ACTUALLY killing myself than I ever have before. Life is not worth living at that point. Weird huh?

Take care and good luck

[mamasou]

So it looks like opiates can fend off infections.

Im am pretty sure there is an actual mechanism underlying that but i have no medical reference at the moment to back it up.

[Thanat0s]

i imagine in part it is due due both
the fact you dont NOTICE minor cold/sick ailments
AND
that opies seem to rev up the immune sys, poss due the simple fact its a non local substance in the bloodstream,
even not IV it seems to heighten effective immune response...

why that is i dunno,
correlation is NOT causation,
but many many correlations cannot be totally ignored re: causality...

[jdub]

Yeah, when I am strung out I don't get colds, flus etc. But prior to active addiction, I got them a couple times a year.

I also look very young for my age. I'm 28 and still get carded buying cigarettes.

[maycausedrowsiness]

I think the theory that "opiates lower the immune system" draws its conclusion from the fact that when you abstain from opiates for good, your immune system is permanently tarnished.. in other words once you get off the junk, you're probly going to get more colds/sinus infections that you did before you began opiates..

when you are doped up, it is absolutely true that you get sick less. I too haven't gotten sick from anything like a cold or anything like that since I've been on opiates. The question is, does prolonged opiate use screw up our systems once you get clean? it definitely does have an impact for a while once you get clean, but I tend to think that it would go back to normal eventually.

[The_Chef]

i imagine in part it is due due both
the fact you dont NOTICE minor cold/sick ailments
AND
that opies seem to rev up the immune sys, poss due the simple fact its a non local substance in the bloodstream,
even not IV it seems to heighten effective immune response...

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner. Both of these are quite true. First off, the fact of the matter is that opiates do a tip top job of masking or even combating the symptoms (aches, cough, sniffles, etc) of most common sicknesses. Secondly, there is the often overlooked autoimmune response to opiates in your bloodstream. When we talk about the itch or a strong histamine reaction (rash and whatnot) this is what is really happening. These are not so much products of the drug itself but rather the body's reaction to the drug and it's safe to assume that there are other, less noticed autoimmune reactions going on at the same time.

[mamasou]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner. Both of these are quite true. First off, the fact of the matter is that opiates do a tip top job of masking or even combating the symptoms (aches, cough, sniffles, etc) of most common sicknesses. Secondly, there is the often overlooked autoimmune response to opiates in your bloodstream. When we talk about the itch or a strong histamine reaction (rash and whatnot) this is what is really happening. These are not so much products of the drug itself but rather the body's reaction to the drug and it's safe to assume that there are other, less noticed autoimmune reactions going on at the same time.

Right!

Histamine release.

That is definately a plausible mechanism.

[nick]

In terms of the immune system it's important to differentiate between opiates and the lifestyle that often comes with them.

Mama,I've also been reading up on this subject and when and if I come across anything concrete or of interest I'll drop you a message.

[bigNasty]

At the risk of derailing, do other people get that "Oh you can't possibly be THAT old" comment all the time? I'm 56 and I get told I look 16 years younger quite a lot. I have fully gray hair and a grandmotherly body ie fat - no wrinkles . I DO look considerably younger than my age. I've told people "hey all the IV morphine preserved me".
Wondering if anyone else gets that comment too.

Yes, those are two of the benefits of using opi's for me. Never get sick and look younger than people my age that don't use opi's. I always tell non users that the opi's are preservatives and that's why I look better and younger than them

[Paregoric Kid]

yeah its pretty amazing that opioid and cannabinoid receptors are part of the immune system and very important. I believe when those receptors are occupied it is harder for certain diseases to sicken you and weaken your immune system. there is a whole bunch of info on the role of opioids and the immune system, later I might post some of the studies. but be skeptical of ones that try to suggest that opioids have a very detrimental effect on the immune system, many are flawed and only use addicts who have poor hygienic and harm reduction practices. if you live relatively healthy, opioids will boost your immune system. I rarely get sick now, whereas before taking opioids I was frequently sick. I remember Burroughs saying how lots of addicts seemed immune to the Spanish flu when the epidemic was going on. if true that could be explained by the immunomodulating effects of opioids.

[Count Zero]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner. Both of these are quite true. First off, the fact of the matter is that opiates do a tip top job of masking or even combating the symptoms (aches, cough, sniffles, etc) of most common sicknesses. Secondly, there is the often overlooked autoimmune response to opiates in your bloodstream. When we talk about the itch or a strong histamine reaction (rash and whatnot) this is what is really happening. These are not so much products of the drug itself but rather the body's reaction to the drug and it's safe to assume that there are other, less noticed autoimmune reactions going on at the same time.

This is a theory, put forth by a MD friend who I respect, that I have absolutely no scientific basis for whatsoever, but she thinks that the same respiratory suppression that causes ODs works in (non ODing) users to cause "shallower breathing" and this prevents a lot of respiratory/flu/sinus problems. The masking of the symptoms thing is unarguable, it's masked a lot worse symptoms than that.

[Chipper]

I read on here that one possible reason is that we insulate ourselves with the drug and then the all-to-common fever (one w/d symptom) kicks in, it's often possibly enough to stop the common cold in it's tracks.

Plus, feeling like a million bucks can't hurt the old psycho-immune system.

[digby]

I'm on opioids 24/7, yet I still get sick from flu at least twice a year and add to that a cold or two every year. Non to quash your theory, but I am sick rather often.

Of course, the nature of my disability certainly affects the immune system, so my case is not the same as someone that does opiates purely recreationally. I can say though that a lower respiratory rate seems to encourage lung and bronchial problems rather than discourage them - at least in my case.

[hairandwine]

Although I have only used opiates for a year and a half-ish, I have NEVER had a common cold while on them. The only time I became sick was during my longest break of three weeks, in a third world country, where I was in contact with someone who was clearly sick, non-stop, for four days straight.

In-country, I have lived with people who have all gotten severe colds and flues, and been chipping away in the house, off the kitchen table we all ate off of, and never got sick. I have been underdressed for winter while high, for hours, and never gotten a cold.

I honestly think that someone should do a study on what exactly causes these effects in some people (not all), as maybe it could work towards the decriminalization of recreational opiate use.

[sweetpoppygrrl]

propaganda?

since i've been on a better maintenance, i haven't been ill, when, while i was working, i'd be sick about 2-4 times a year...

maybe it's the lack of socialization ... being a relative shut in it's not like i'm around tons of folks...

or, maybe, since opies have a relative calming effect in and of themselves, the stress levels are down and the immune system izzin't under constant attack 'from within', so to speak...

i notice my coping skills are very much mo better when i'm dosed--- little things that would have set me right over the moon before are no big shakes now--- or maybe i've "matured"

interesting fact about the spanish flu...

[underide]

I never get sick when strung on opiates, but before I got sick occasionally. Strange.

i noticed that too, especially using gear, but could it be that being high and especially no stopping for rest at it, that you (we??) just don't notice the worst of the sickness ? :confused:
well -non opiate-withdrawal kind of sickness ofcourse..
^^that type of sickness is kinda hard to ignore

[mamasou]

There is little doubt that the complex and intriguing pharmacolocy of opiates have an immunomodulating effect.

After all, they do act on an endogenous system that is proven to be involved in immune activities.

Now, whether they act positively or negatively on the immune system has yet to be adequately examined scientifically.

But from our limited accounts, there seems to be an agreement that the effect is overall positive.

Although it does not prove anything, it is definately worth notice.

[The_Chef]

This is a theory, put forth by a MD friend who I respect, that I have absolutely no scientific basis for whatsoever, but she thinks that the same respiratory suppression that causes ODs works in (non ODing) users to cause "shallower breathing" and this prevents a lot of respiratory/flu/sinus problems.

This has actually been proven in medical studies. I can't be bothered to find them right now but they are out there if you want them. It has become pretty much standard to give people in severe respiratory distress morphine for this very reason.

[underide]

It has become pretty much standard to give people in severe respiratory distress morphine for this very reason.

I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WAS MORPHINES VERY EFFECTIVE COUGH-SUPPRESSANT QUlities that warrant5ed that explanation

[doctor diesel]

Yep, I'm another one who has noticed a curious absence of general malaise and bug-illnesses while doping up on the good stuff. And I've been around this forum for long enough to know that the majority of dopers report this very same thing. Yet another damned fine reason for the individual to stay nicely smacked up, I say!
And GrannyPoppy, I too look considerably younger than my years (I'm right behind you girl, at 50 years of age, though people say I look 42-ish) though I couldn't claim that this is due to the opie lifestyle, as I only really started playing with opes in earnest in 2006.

Luv y'all!


Doc

[Tautou]

One other thing occured to me today. When I was 12, I had a really bad case of pneumonia. Every year after that I got a really REALLY bad cough. I mean, it was scare the neighbors away, I had no friends bad kind of cough. Very deep, very painful.

This cough would begin due to (i figured anway) the smoggy inversion that occurs in my city December through February. I would start coughing in January or february, and cough until april or may.

Here's the point: I havent had that cough, AFTER 11 years straight of having it, since I began using opiates regularly in 2003... its April right NOW and Im not coughing... bizzare (to me anyway)

[kolesmiv]

Before I was strung on opiates I used to get chronic migraines. Like, I would get a migraine and be in bed for 3 days because it fucked me up. This would happen about every 3 weeks. Since then I've been on opiates every day and have yet to be debilitated by another migraine. The last headache that I got I went to the doc and got a prescription called Maxalt. I haven't even opened the bottle (Non-abusable of course ). This is definitely an interesting topic because I've been wondering the same thing for a while.

EDIT: And along with the migraines I would get a high fever and bad body aches...sort of like the flu, so you can tell that I'm glad that I haven't been experiencing them.

[doctor diesel]

Before I was strung on opiates I used to get chronic migraines. Like, I would get a migraine and be in bed for 3 days because it fucked me up. This would happen about every 3 weeks. Since then I've been on opiates every day and have yet to be debilitated by another migraine. The last headache that I got I went to the doc and got a prescription called Maxalt. I haven't even opened the bottle (Non-abusable of course ). This is definitely an interesting topic because I've been wondering the same thing for a while.

EDIT: And along with the migraines I would get a high fever and bad body aches...sort of like the flu, so you can tell that I'm glad that I haven't been experiencing them.

What kind of a migraine is it that gives you a high fever? Surely, this has never been heard of before?
I take Maxalt for migraines - tastes like you're reaming out a horse's rectum.... and doesn't tend to do too much for your migraine either.
Best thing for my migraines was always HEROIN - worked without fail. Trouble is, society and the S.O. don't want me using that any more.
So what's a serious headache-sufferer to do??!


Doc

[Locke]

I have a bit of an alternative explanation. Like most of you, I noticed the same thing relating to lack of illness. But the period of my life when I got sick the most often was in my early teens -- I was stressed out all the time, and every time I felt like I might come down with something, I would get really, really sick. I come from a long line of hypochondriacs and can say with all certainty that stress can really be devastating for your immune system. Using opiates is physically, mentally, and emotionally calming. When you're using consistently and you get into a routine, it negates a lot of the shitty realities of being a human. I don't know if that has a positive effect on our immune systems, but it certainly cancels out the negative effects of being super stressed out. When we are calm and focused, our bodies work best.

I'm not saying that's all there is to the relationship between opiophiles and their marvelous resistance to viral and bacterial threats. But it's part of the equation and a helpful detail to remember.