Methadone sickness

[soggy]

Hi folks, apologies if this has been asked/answered before, but I searched the site and couldn't find anything.

I'm starting MMT next week and have been told that:

a) I'll be on the lowest dose for at least the first week (20mg) and;
b) I should expect to suffer serious withdrawal and they fully expect my to use my DOC to deal with this.

Now this seems bass-ackwards to me, but it's the rules of the game up here in Ontario, Canada (it's a government-run program, need I say more?).

So, my question is, what can I do to deal with the inevitable withdrawal sickness without resorting to my DOC, benzos, alcohol or anything else that might be dangerous to combine with methadone?

Thanks all

soggy

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

SKIP the benzos and alcohol
WHAT IS DOC AND AMOUNT PLEASE.
probably will have to resort to a bit of DOC
though 20 mgs of done may be more than you think

[SHELLEY]

just take more opis on top until you get stable
or, just deal
those are the best two options
when i went into mmt i was on about 1.5g of heroin/day
and they started me on 15mg, it was only rough for a week or so
also, weed helps quite a bit

[OpiateQueen]

most people still just keep using heroin or whatever DOC when they first start MMT but yeah i find it werid that they're actually telling u to do this...
If you dont want to use anyting except the done then it will just be like going thru normal withdrawls only not nearly as bad cos at least u will hv some done in ya bod... and u can raise the dose everyday - or u could at mine anyway. Will take at least a couple weeks to get stable id say.

[Mallinckrodt]

Try to stay clean as long as you can before you go in and take your first dose. That way you'll be a bit sick and the dose will be that much more of a relief for you. If you've got a few days before you go in, at least try to taper down as low as possible for a couple days and then maybe the day before you go in you can stay clean and get to the clinic early for your first dose.

I was pretty miserable when I went in for my first dose (which was 35mgs) and it actually wasn't that bad. I was able to sleep at night, and the relief from not having to worry about where my next fix was going to come from was really nice for a change.

15 mgs is pretty low but still, it may help more than you think it's going to. Try to stay as low as you can too, I wish I would have stayed at 35mgs myself. I kept trying to catch a buzz that just wasn't possible after a while. . .now I'm stuck way too damn high. Get 'stable,' as they call it, and stick with a lower dose if you can.

Good luck.

[lotus]

Hi folks, apologies if this has been asked/answered before, but I searched the site and couldn't find anything.

I'm starting MMT next week and have been told that:

a) I'll be on the lowest dose for at least the first week (20mg) and;
b) I should expect to suffer serious withdrawal and they fully expect my to use my DOC to deal with this.

Now this seems bass-ackwards to me, but it's the rules of the game up here in Ontario, Canada (it's a government-run program, need I say more?).

So, my question is, what can I do to deal with the inevitable withdrawal sickness without resorting to my DOC, benzos, alcohol or anything else that might be dangerous to combine with methadone?

Thanks all

soggy

i'll take this government run program anyday over OATC.

i'm in a government run program, a close family memeber works at oact....the only people who benefit from the *private* part are it's owners.

government run - you have one dr. and one nurse who do everything with/for you including sorting out legal/social/other medical problems - number of piss tests depend on how well you're doing, and most of them you go to a pharmacy of your choice to dose.

oact - you don't have a nurse, and the dr's are usually seen over some wee tv screen as they sit back in toronto doing fuck all. piss tests are twice a week regardless of how well you're doing, you dose in a clinic that's only open 8 hours a day - as for care, unless doing something makes them a heafty buck they don't do it.....and the things that make the most money are a waste of time and usually useless for the client.

oatc also like to script out all sorts of medications like benzo's, ritalin, and testosterone patches because it keeps the client in a situation where they can never get carries, or off methadone for that matter - the more often you step foot in that clinic, the more they get paid.

and the name oatc - ontario addiction treatment centers - is beyond misleading as it's a privately run place.

starting people on a low dose is standard everywhere, even in the states, because if addicts were left to decide it themselves the mortality rate would shoot thru the roof.

most clinics verbalize the fact drug use isn't going to stop over nite - it's meant to be understanding, and to pave lines of honest communication as most people don't stop using till they get on a dose that starts blocking any highs....it's the reality of the situation, at least they address it.

i do find the 20mg thing for at least the first week a little off...15mg is the lowest and 30 the highest that they start you with. my dose was raised by 10 every second or third day till i hit 80ish, then it was raised by the week.

be thankful of where you are. the private clinics are shitholes that don't care about anything other than how much money they can make off of you.

[soggy]

Thanks for the replies.

I especially like the idea of tapering before I start MMT.

DOC is morphine (300 mg per day IV).

And this is through OATC, which I mistakenly thought was government run.

Private clinics are impossible to find in my neck of the woods.

soggy

[Thebane]

Thanks for the replies.

I especially like the idea of tapering before I start MMT.

DOC is morphine (300 mg per day IV).

And this is through OATC, which I mistakenly thought was government run.

Private clinics are impossible to find in my neck of the woods.

soggy

Like people said if you wait until you're pretty sick (and especially if you taper too) then the done might be able to at least make you somewhat comfortable. It's amazing how much a day or two off will decrease the amount you need to stay well.

And the done will gradually build up in your system over the first few days before stabilizing, so even if they don't raise your dose you should start feeling better because of the increased level of done in your blood and your shrinking tolerance if you don't use on top of it.

Of course if you're terribly sick you'll need an increase or you'll need to use too in order to feel well.

[OrangeLude]

20mg/done on top of whatever is left of you DOC in you may just hold you....for 12-18 hours anyway...'done builds in your system over 3 days...so each day of 20 may help a little bit more as you start to take less of your DOC.
I went on 20mg/done/day on my own from a 200mg+/day oxy/hydro habit to get me through a vacation before I went on mmt...
you may find the early morning before you get tyhat next dose that you're starting to hit w/d's etc...but you may also be suprised about the carrying power of 20mg of 'done...
let us know & be safe with any comfort additives...such as benzos, be very careful.

[More Feen]

That seems pretty fucked up for a Gummiment agency to:

Request that you continue the illegal purchase, acquisition & use of illicit drugs.

Now you might be getting your Morphine from a Doctor's RX, but others tell the same story when they're using H.

What if you get busted buying?
"Uh, officer, I'm on MMT and I was told to keep using, that's why I'm here and you've arrested me."

"Sure, you are. If you were on MMT you wouldn't NEED to be buying & using #$^*&!! "

M F

[soggy]

Well, they didn't exactly request that I continue with my DOC, the exact words were, "we fully expect that you will continue taking your DOC until you reach the required methadone dose."

But I completely agree, they are condoning the continued use of street drugs, which, although probably realistic, is a tad hypocritical for an agency whose mandate is to get you off street drugs.

F*** up indeed.

soggy

[darkstar]

That seems pretty fucked up for a Gummiment agency to:

Request that you continue the illegal purchase, acquisition & use of illicit drugs.

It was also decided that he's not going to a government program. It's a pay program. It's a totally different deal there. I'm in a pay program right now. Way more lax, and as stated anything to get your money so watch out. They'll probably suggest upping your dose higher than needed so it takes you longer to ween. Usually more time is needed rather than more methadone. Of course the first few days you want to feel better right away, but I guess it all depends on what you want out of MMT. Are you using it as a tool to get clean. Do you plan on staying on MMT for a while? what your anwers are should help you decide your plan.

Remember that with pay programs you call the shots, not them. ALso make sure you know everything you have to pay for. Some places will charge for counseler sessions and such even though they tell you to take them. Shady things like that go on sometimes.

Good luck. I hope things go well for you.

[Oakleyskier]

That seems pretty fucked up for a Gummiment agency to:

Request that you continue the illegal purchase, acquisition & use of illicit drugs.

Now you might be getting your Morphine from a Doctor's RX, but others tell the same story when they're using H.

What if you get busted buying?
"Uh, officer, I'm on MMT and I was told to keep using, that's why I'm here and you've arrested me."

"Sure, you are. If you were on MMT you wouldn't NEED to be buying & using #$^*&!! "

M F

aren't we always yelling about harm reduction? i lioke the fact that they're being realistic about the induction dose. if anything i like what their doing and agree.

[lotus]

It was also decided that he's not going to a government program. It's a pay program. It's a totally different deal there. I'm in a pay program right now. Way more lax, and as stated anything to get your money so watch out. They'll probably suggest upping your dose higher than needed so it takes you longer to ween. Usually more time is needed rather than more methadone. Of course the first few days you want to feel better right away, but I guess it all depends on what you want out of MMT. Are you using it as a tool to get clean. Do you plan on staying on MMT for a while? what your anwers are should help you decide your plan.

Remember that with pay programs you call the shots, not them. ALso make sure you know everything you have to pay for. Some places will charge for counseler sessions and such even though they tell you to take them. Shady things like that go on sometimes.

Good luck. I hope things go well for you.

actually, it seems to be the opposite up here.

on average gov't clients have an easier time getting on the correct dose (which, for some, is quite high), and 100% say in what happens as far as their treatment goes - as far as anything goes....except other drugs.

they really want you to try every treatment in the book before they're going to hand out a script for kpins or xanax...that seems to be the only *advantage* (depending on how you look at it) with pay clinics - they'll drug you up more than you ever were before with next to no questions ask'd.

everyone assumed the pay clinics would be a push over when they rolled in and quite a few people jump'd ship to go "over there"......two months later they all started coming back.

it wasn't because of the money either - except for methadone, the government still foots the bill for everything anyways.

[doctor diesel]

Well, they didn't exactly request that I continue with my DOC, the exact words were, "we fully expect that you will continue taking your DOC until you reach the required methadone dose."
But I completely agree, they are condoning the continued use of street drugs, which, although probably realistic, is a tad hypocritical for an agency whose mandate is to get you off street drugs.
F*** up indeed.
soggy

Yes, but then, is that any worse than the fact that they know you are a criminal for buying and using the hardest street drugs, yet they're not reporting you to the authorities?
A bit of lateral thinking there - I don't necessarily agree with what I'm saying.


Doc

[soggy]

I like the harm reduction approach they are taking also.
At first blush, the whole thing about continuing to take your DOC while on methadone seems counter-intuitive, but the more I think about it, the more I think it makes sense. It's realistic and sensible, and how often can you say that about a drug treatment program?

My plan is to get off opiates permanently and use methadone to stabilize my life, with the ultimate goal of cleaning up entirely. Might not be possible, but I'm pretty motivated to make this happen.

Opiates have caused way too many problems for me and it's time to step back and re-assess what I'm doing with my life.

I'm going to miss 'em though!

soggy

[doctor diesel]

My plan is to get off opiates permanently and use methadone to stabilize my life, with the ultimate goal of cleaning up entirely. Might not be possible, but I'm pretty motivated to make this happen.
I'm going to miss 'em though!
soggy

Maybe once you're clean, or mostly so, you'll be able to revisit them once a month, once a fortnight, maybe once a week, and not lose control, just so's you don't miss them too much, and so that you're life doesn't end up flavourless, like it otherwise might.
Of course if you don't think you have the willpower to be able to do this, then don't even consider it. But it's certainly what I'm working towards, and it's working well for me so far.
To be honest, I don't even want to picture my life with never an opiate interlude in it.

Doc

[SHELLEY]

To be honest, I don't even want to picture my life with never an opiate interlude in it.

i like to think "someday" i'll get high again
because the cool thing about "someday" is that it's always in the future

that's what works for me at least

[Shadowsblaze]

i like to think "someday" i'll get high again
because the cool thing about "someday" is that it's always in the future

that's what works for me at least

Your not counting weed are you Shell.

[acey]

Here in SK, Canada, its not uncommon for a doc to write for 100 to 150 kadian (time release morphine) that you drink with your methadone for the first week or two while slowly lowering the morphine as your methadone rises so that you dont have to go back to buying off the street untill your methadone has stabalized you. I thought this was quite common, but I guess not. We only have provincial run clinics here. No MMT franchises here lol

[SHELLEY]

i think over the past year and 2 weeks this might have gotten settled...

[Benz]

Here in SK, Canada, its not uncommon for a doc to write for 100 to 150 kadian (time release morphine) that you drink with your methadone for the first week or two while slowly lowering the morphine as your methadone rises so that you dont have to go back to buying off the street untill your methadone has stabalized you. I thought this was quite common, but I guess not. We only have provincial run clinics here. No MMT franchises here lol

That's how it SHOULD be. Where I am MMT is run pretty much the same as the OP's. They prescribe 30mg & go up 10mg per day until your on an optimal dose. They don't expect any clean UAs until then. I wouldn't recommend using benzos or alcohol to mitigate withdrawal. Alcohol especially, not only does it cause 'done to be metabolised faster, you feel worse more often than not. It's just not safe.



Benz