How long does precipitated withdrawal last?

[Indy]

So i happened to get some subs, and am curious to take them, but i was curious as to how long it actually lasts. I did some searching and it appears as though it varies from person to person, so the question is:

how long did precipitated withdrawals last for YOU? try to include the dosage and your tolerance/what you were on at the time.

[StackBundles]

A couple of years ago (2005) my little brother came back from Detox with a script of Subbies. We didn't know too much about them at the time. He tossed me one when he got home and, of course, the first thing I asked was if I could bang them and, of course, without even researching the project, I jumped in, rig first.

My tolerance at the time was, I'd say, 200mgs of Morphine a shot to catch one, 2 or 3 of Chicago's diggitiest a shot, or 160 mgs. of OC. That was a couple of times a day.

I hadn't done at all for the day, but I did early in the A.M. before catching some sleep for a couple of hours, so I was 6 hours, give or take, off of my last dose.

That was the worst shot of my life, including the times I flopped. I banged probably 5/8ths of the total pill, which was an 8mg. Total dysphoria, anxiety, crushing depression, chills, sweats...all of that good stuff. It lasted about a half an hour maybe a little longer. An hour later I fired off a couple Dillies and felt better. I was definately on the tail end of the hellishness when I fixed the Dills, so I'd say they lasted about 45 mins. before the regular shittiness you'd normally feel when detoxing.

[PrisonHer]

at the time i had a gram a day habbit..took 4 mg of subs too early..P w/d lasted several hours..cold chills lasted till the next morning.

[Narkotikon]

The best course of action is to wait until you're in moderate w/d. That can be difficult with longer-acting opiates like seeds or pods.

I'm assuming you have precipitated w/d. I'm really sorry about that. I've never had them, so I couldn't say how long it lasted for me. From what I've read though, it depends on how you did the Subs and is subjective for each person.

Did you take them sublingually, snorted, etc.? How many milligrams did you take?

My guess would be that it will probably last for at least a few hours, but perhaps more (more like a half a day, etc.) because of the pods / seeds. You should be fine by morning. But, that's just a guess.

[oxyjon]

The one time I did subs, I took 2mgs the next morning after waking up and doing roxi's the night before. I was such a mess after that. I waited an hour and took 2mgs. I had to go to work at this point and was going through full withdrawals. I took 2 more miligrams and finally felt ok. I wasnt sick or high, I was just ok. I will never take those again.

[Seedy]

So do you have the dreaded pptdwd's or are you worried about getting on to the subs? When I got on them I was using around 1kg of top quality seeds a day. I took a normal morning dose, no more for the rest of the day (was feeling a bit shitty by about mid evening) I had some clonazepam stashed so I took .5mg on top of a few glasses of wine to get me through the evening then 1mg to knock me out and get some sleep (yeah I'm a lightweight on benzos). By the next morning I was well into withdrawals but definately could have been worse. I took 2mg at around 9am, felt better by about 11, had another 2mg at 12 and haven't experienced any significant withdrawals since then. I think the threat of precipitated withdrawals is over stated. If you're sensible about it you'll be fine. I hope that helps.

[oxy kid]

WAIT! I don't get PW anymore because of how many times i've went back and forth, but when I did, I felt like total crap. Take care of yourself.

[U4Euhhhhh...]

aww man. Just thinking about that P w/d makes me wanna puke. Seriously. I have gone through that hell more than once. Twice too soon after roxi and once too soon (two full days) after a last dose of 'done. TWO whole fuckin days. Godd that made me HATE meth. I mean think about it... I know 'done has a LONG half-life but its been two days and I am not in moderate, im in full w/d and i got these here subs...why suffer, right? wrong motherfucker, just when you thought you were in full w/d.. Hows about a extra dose of hell on earth for ya? My P w/d lasted a whole day and i didnt have any opi or benzo to try to get comfy..just one soma which did nothing. Most people here know that meth has a long half-life, but OMG that truely was the worst day of my life. Learn from my mistake so you never have to deal with this man-made hell.

[jacky]

ha ha ha...

"man made hell" indeed!

that is a good one...

I have experienced the forced withdrawl on bup when switching.
utter hell.
at first I didnt know what they hell was happening...
it felt more like possesion than a drug.

I didnt know I could sweat that much liquid in under a minute.
a literal towel full...
I didnt even have time to get my pants off before they were fucking soaked.

thing is....I experienced that yet another time.
felt like I was giving birth through the temporal lobes.

I also watched my girlfreind go through the same ordeal.....but I was on mushrooms.
just started the trip when she said...
"oh fuck"
for hours she was begging me to kill her basically, as she said she couldnt handle the pain anymore.
finally to pass out from the pain.

the next time I have to take bup, if ever, I am waiting till I feel like I did the first time I experienced relief from withdrawl with pure buprenorphine ampules.
two tinny shots and I was feeling right good.

a few years ago when I was using buprenorphine to lower tolerance for a few months at a time, I would put it into a liquid suspension, and use sublingually, taking it in hundred microgram doses rather than taking a milligrams at a time.

I cant imagine all the horrors that people are going to experience with these pills, when they are passed around by the ignorant and niave.
people with no habit take a pill and spend 48 hours puking up their stomachs....
people with habits take some and realize that cotton fever has nothing on forced withdrawl via buprenorphine.
its a dangerous substance possibly.

ha ha, I remember using a mask and gloves just handling the stuff after my bad experiences....and not just any mask...but a mask for solvents/gasses.

[oxy kid]

aww man. Just thinking about that P w/d makes me wanna puke. Seriously. I have gone through that hell more than once. Twice too soon after roxi and once too soon (two full days) after a last dose of 'done. TWO whole fuckin days. Godd that made me HATE meth. I mean think about it... I know 'done has a LONG half-life but its been two days and I am not in moderate, im in full w/d and i got these here subs...why suffer, right? wrong motherfucker, just when you thought you were in full w/d.. Hows about a extra dose of hell on earth for ya? My P w/d lasted a whole day and i didnt have any opi or benzo to try to get comfy..just one soma which did nothing. Most people here know that meth has a long half-life, but OMG that truely was the worst day of my life. Learn from my mistake so you never have to deal with this man-made hell.

I experienced the EXACT same thing. And I absolutely loved Done. NOT ANYMORE! I don't want to touch it becuase I know I'll eventually have to get back to my subs and go through absolute HELL. And I did it TWICE. The second time I had about 4.5 mgs of Xanax to help, but that didn't do much at all. It was absolutely ridiculous. I was sick for 3 days the first time I think and like 5 the second. I waited 96 HOURS!!!!

[Indy]

ha ha, I remember using a mask and gloves just handling the stuff after my bad experiences....and not just any mask...but a mask for solvents/gasses.

I'd say that makes sense, i mean it's active at really low doses, even 200 micrograms might be enough to de-potentiate a morphine dose. Reminds me of hearing the stories about dope weighers and packagers who cop habits just from handling it all day.

[Hoss]

The one definite time I know for a fact that I had PW's was back in October or so when I started a thread on here named "Has Anyone Had Buprenorphine Not Work For Them?"; in that case, I was at a steady rate of at least a gram a day of high grade West Coast powder (unbelievably there is such a thing, heh) and after waiting what I thought was an appropriate amount of time, when I awoke I took 8mg's of Subutex sublingually.

Ahh yes, then it began : chills, sweats, restlesness, confusion, emotional breakdown, dilated pupils to the *nth degree, blah blah bling bling blah - but, worst of all with me was the overall dysphoria; I HATE that portion of WD altogether like we all do, but in this particular PW case it was much worse and seemingly caused me to have a panic attack altogether. Strangely, though it must be noted, that during this stretch of wretch there was no gastrointestinal funk phenomena to speak of, which still puzzles me, as there were all of the other classic WD symptoms.

To answer your question, in the case above my PW's lasted in "hardcore status" for a couple of hours honestly, but even after the worst subsided I still felt like a raw donkey ass ringlet and went out to obtain what would cure the day of woe, which actually worked.

I eventually made it back over to Bup back then but it took quite some time for me to feel 'normal' again as I had built up quite the amount of opiate receptors in my brain during my half year 'binge'; YAY.

It is most definitely worth the wait when switching over onto Buprenorphine no matter what the case, even though that goes against what is ingrained within our addictive minds; however, this is the exception, and even though it may seem like an eternity, waiting until you actually are going into WD is key - trust.

Best of luck to you Indy - feel free to message me with any questions or whatever as I have made the switch more times that I can count, and as such maybe I could help with anything you might have a question with homeslice.

[Seedy]

^^ So what's up Indy? I take it you've been to the doctor and have your prescription ready to go but you're a bit wary about taking your first dose? Just make sure you make it to the "loose bowels stage", you should have the yawns, runny nose, RLS. You'll be fine. To be sure start with like 0.5mg and if you're doing OK an hour after that take another 0.5... By the time you get up to 2mg you should be feeling pretty much fine (judging from my experience - fellow daily PST user). Good luck.

[Indy]

^^ So what's up Indy? I take it you've been to the doctor and have your prescription ready to go but you're a bit wary about taking your first dose? Just make sure you make it to the "loose bowels stage", you should have the yawns, runny nose, RLS. You'll be fine. To be sure start with like 0.5mg and if you're doing OK an hour after that take another 0.5... By the time you get up to 2mg you should be feeling pretty much fine (judging from my experience - fellow daily PST user). Good luck.

yea that's pretty much it basically, for the most part....anyways i was really hoping you'd respond or someone else who used seed tea habitually, i was using a lot of seeds for a while up until now, but i've cut down my tolerance so yea....

one of the reasons i was asking was just cause i'm curious and i was never able to find a solid answer on how long it actually lasts from when you take a sub and get the "oh shit" feeling.

[alowishus]

Same here, switching back and forth; I was in a hurry, started to feel a little sick so I dropped a 4mg chunk and...

...it felt more like possesion...

That says it all perfectly, it doesn't feel like w/d's, it's from within deep in you and you know it aint just w/d's.
I had about 3 hours of that loveliness.
Now I make sure I'm good and fucking sick before I dose and then I wait an extra 3 hours because I know it will never be as bad those other 3.

[alowishus]

...how long it actually lasts from when you take a sub and get the "oh shit" feeling.

You mean precipitated withdrawal?
Not really long, within a hours, 30 min, 45, you'll feel it.
After an hour you KNOW it.

I was a heavy pod guy before I switched to subs. If I waited 24 hours before a sub dose it was cool, 36 even better.

Just hold out as long as you can; best advice.

[Seedy]

yea that's pretty much it basically, for the most part....anyways i was really hoping you'd respond or someone else who used seed tea habitually, i was using a lot of seeds for a while up until now, but i've cut down my tolerance so yea....

one of the reasons i was asking was just cause i'm curious and i was never able to find a solid answer on how long it actually lasts from when you take a sub and get the "oh shit" feeling.

The only times I've ever experienced pptdwd's was while taking minimal subs, like 1 mg/day for a while then missing a day and snorting 2mgs. It lasted about an hour, profuse sweating and a feeling of general unease. Dosinglike this is pretty much a weekly routine for me and even if I have a day off subs entirely if I do it right, ie start with a minimal dose sub lingually then build up from there I'm fine.

Edit: what an irrelevant bunch of crap i typed. Indy, it took me about 10 minutes after snorting the sub that the fear started to come on.

[Indy]

Sorry i worded that really shittily...i mean, from when you start feeling the precipitated withdrawal, how long until you get BETTER? And once you start feeling better, would taking MORE subs make you feel better, or worse? Maybe I'm paranoid but i want to make sure i know all of this if i'm gonna be taking subs.

[alowishus]

My ordeal was about 3 hours, from what I've read it different for everyone, why? I have no idear.

I never thought of trying to take more to try and push out of it, I didn't want to prolong it one fucking min. but I guess it seems some have, did it work of were they already coming out of it...? Your guess is as good as mine. Once you start feeling better more subs won't put you back in it. They have already raided your receptors and have taken over so more ONCE you feel well won't hurt.

If you wait 24-36 hours once your last opi, you will be fine.
I was taking massive amounts of pod powder everyday for yrs, waited in that time frame and was fine, of course it took a shit load of subs to get stable, but I was able to ween down fast, it was just that last 1mg that fucked my every time.

When I fucked up, I had only waited like 10-12 hours, I got so used to taking subs I forgot that I was using the day/night before and when I got that first cold chill down my back as I ran out the door for work, I popped my dose, yeah I never made it to work, thank god I have to long travel time, if they would have seen me....fuck!!

I know you want to be careful, I can't blame you that shit suck BIG rhino balls, but don't psyche yourself out over it, remember you are in charge, you have the control (even so, at least tell yourself that ).

How long has it been since you used and what was it/amount/how often? If you don't mean me askin'.

P.S. what was your old avatar?

[Indy]

Thanks alow that answers most of my questions. Everyone else don't hesitate to post though, we can always use more sharing of experience!

As for my old avatar, my LAST avatar if i remember correctly was a close-up pic of my guitar, then before that i had a character from a video game that was drawn in rotoscope-style. Before that, my memory is fuzzy, i think i had a black and white high-contrast pic of Mark Sandman from the band Morphine. My first ever avatar (i think) was a crappy picture of a morphine syrette (think a toothpaste tube with a hypodermic needle on the end) that i got off google images.

EDIT: Thursday morning, at around 10-11-ish i had some seed tea made with frozen, pre-washed, seeds. It didn't get me high but it brought me out of withdrawal, since it had been about a day before my last dose at that time.

[alowishus]

Cool.

Yeah I was trying to remember what it was but couldn't, it's hard to remember who people are when they change the avi's. I've got no fucking memory anyhoo.

On sorta topic, I just got a new refill today (had been off the subs for about a month or more) it's like jerking off without cumming.
There's no payday; you get better, nose dries out, pit in your tummy gone, the sweat pools under your arms are gone, and you warm up some but your head is still a fucking whole.
No warm fuzzies in the dome.
Not even a tiny slight envelope of one....sucks.

Fuck where did I put those pods again.....

[Seedy]

Are you saying your last dose of pst was thursday? Shit man if so, you worry too much way too much! Just start off low see how you feel then take it from there. It was amazingly easy for me the couple of times i made the transition, and amazing how good I felt the first few days on suboxone!

[roxi*stardust]

I have experienced PW more times than I would like to admit, it sees like once I experienced it one time it happened evertime I would switch no matter how long I waited between my DOC and Bupe. Typically PWs lasted 1-3 hours for me with one exception and that was when swicthing from Methadone to Bupe. That lasted around 4-6 hours. What makes it so bad is all the withdrawal symptoms hit you at once rather than coming on slowly. It is like hell on earth for a couple hours.

I know this chica that was told by someone she could take Bupe and Methadone together. She goes to the clinic and should have known better. She is one like 120+mg of 'done a day and snorted a whole 8mg tablet of Suboxone. She didn't know what the hell happened. She calls me and tells me and I just laughed, I know kinda mean. But seriously, it was on her clinic card, did she think they were joking? She was sicker than fuck, 120+mg for the past 2 years, yeah you can only imagine. I told her it would eventuallu susbside but she couldn't take it and went to the ER. They gave her Clonidine and set her home.

[Lil_T]

Subs are definitely weird. I truly believe that the way you will react to subs depends on tolerance. My first sub does I had waited ~ 24 hrs to dose my 8 mgs sublingually. No buzz whatsoever and just barely started to feel better after 2 hours. Now I have also taken 2 mg of sub one morning and a few(3-4) roxies (30's) in the evening and got a horrible headache but nothing else. I have also done it the other way around, where I'll take my sub 6-8 hours after my last roxie dose. I will also get a splitting headache but no withdrawl symptoms.

My theory on this: If you have a high high tolerance and take subs ( or roxies) too soon, you will start feeling withdrawls beyond just the splitting headache...chills, sweating, basically "shitty (how I describe WD's)" On the other hand if you have a low tolerance you may not feel any ill affects at all by taking sub too soon, or roxies (or whatever) too soon. You won't get high off roxies (or whatever) right away after dosing sub and you may even feel a buzz from the sub, which I have never been so lucky to evperience.

Some people do get headaches from Suboxone and not Subutex, like me, but my doc won't do the tex at all. I;m not sure if the headaches have anything to do with PWD's but every time I experience these headaches, its the headache (which is bad enough on its own) and nothing else.

.............I have wasted many a roxy trying to get myself high........ I know I'm an idiot........

[jacky]

the feeling of being sick, and taking the pure buprenorphine was great....
little waiting with the IV injectable ampules....
but those werent dispensed for opiate treatment...
they were ampules from a chronic pain patient.

taking subs seems completely different.
first off, the first few hours are not the great.
and even the first few days I notice withdrawl symptoms.....but nothing to hard. mostly I notice depression.

after 3-4 days on bup though....I get a totally manic stage where I am feeling euphoria. and obviously stimulated.
during that stage, I find it hard not to take the dose up to 4-8 milligrams before lowering down to 2-4.

if I take it in the higher doses for a few days I am fine....but soon I start noticing hangover/side effects.
dropping down to 2-4 milligrams a day actually seems to benefit me more...even euphoria seems more enjoyable with out nauseating side effects.

I know an old junky, originally born in east LA, a gay hairdresser....great great guy.
pretty long term junky, that didnt really ever have to clean up for years and years of having both scripts and all the money in the world for heroin, bills, and pain meds and money to go out all the time.
he was using boatloads of opiates/opioids.
when I told him about buprenorphine he checked it out, and I saw him a few months later.

he looked a bit better....but seemed pretty fucked looking still.
it was his eyes, and he slurred a bit.
he seemed like a high dose methadone patient, regarding his reactivity.
ended up his Dr was allowing him to take 64 milligrams of subs a day...
and he said he still didnt feel anything anymore.

he might not have felt much...but it was apparent the opioid was saturated enough to hold him.
I wonder how much naloxone he ended up having in his system most of the time.
the guy sucked on those pills pretty much all day and night.

in the end...I dont know how much happier he was....but at least he wasnt shooting IV anymore.

[Indy]

Well I guess I'm officially "on bupe". I took some very late last night/early this morning. I'm somewhat disappointed, but i just took an extra mg and its starting to feel better. For the longest time i felt like i was still in withdrawal. I think it might just be because I CANNOT take this stuff sublingually, I've wasted almost a whole pill probably trying to, but i KEEP swallowing, i can't help it, it's a reflex. So i've been snorting it, but i'm not much of a snorter so i can only snort maybe 1 mg at a time, but it's still working since i tried doing that.

So far, it's not bad, not great.

EDIT: also it doesn't seem to be controlling my bipolar as much as real opiates do. I feel somewhat manic.

[alowishus]

Well I guess I'm officially "on bupe". I took some very late last night/early this morning. I'm somewhat disappointed, but i just took an extra mg and its starting to feel better. For the longest time i felt like i was still in withdrawal. I think it might just be because I CANNOT take this stuff sublingually, I've wasted almost a whole pill probably trying to, but i KEEP swallowing, i can't help it, it's a reflex. So i've been snorting it, but i'm not much of a snorter so i can only snort maybe 1 mg at a time, but it's still working since i tried doing that.

So far, it's not bad, not great.

EDIT: also it doesn't seem to be controlling my bipolar as much as real opiates do. I feel somewhat manic.

Have you tried putting it between your cheek and gum, kind of where you would put a dip, if you chaw'd tobaccy. It works for me, but I also let the spit build up and keep it in my mouth for at least 20 min after the pill is gone.

[oxy kid]

I swallow the entire time its in my mouth. I just don't move my tounge.

[Indy]

Hm...interesting. I heard that it had to be under the tongue, cause of blood vessels or something, but i might give it a shot.

oxy kid, does it work for you when you do that?

[Donny Iris]

Scenario question: If Swim took 20mgs of methadone this morning, feeling good but not at all high and having not taken any 'Done for a looong time before today, will he be in danger of precipitated WD if he were to take a small amnt (1 or 2 mg) of Suboxone at some point tomorrow? I've heard these horror stories from some of you or being on methadone and because it is so long-acting that you experienced precipitated WD even several days later....But is that more something to worry about when you've been using methadone consistently and have it built up in your system? Is swim in the clear for the Suboxone if he waits to take it til he starts feeling shitty after the done leaves?

Thanks.