Methadone and Methadone Anonymous Support!

[Carol]

Ok....I realize my title ain't as good as "Free Opiates", but that one was already taken, lol!

What a GREAT place you have here! I will post more later, but wanted to leave the link to our org's website in case anyone needed some Methadone or Methadone Anonymous support! The link is in my signature below....ummmmm......if I did it correctly.

I realize there are many wonderful support forums here and everywhere. Methadone Anonymous has gained much popularity in the last couple of years and unfortunately there is little to no information or support online. We have a growing list of meetings by state and are also carrying those hard to find MA coins/chips for MA meetings. We continue to have the most MA info online and would love for you all to stop by and help get the word out!

We have a community of support forums for both patient AND provider......and a physician to answer all questions.....counselors etc. Soooooo.....come on over and see us!

Thanks for you time! smoooooooch.......Carol

[Frosty]

=) tHANKS

[Peripat]

Hi Carol, welcome in.

I won't be one of your converts, I'm afraid. With the best of respect to you, I don't find 12-stepping to be my way out of an addiction/illness/whatever... and those who try to press it on me, only try my patience (and I'm not alone here in holding that view.)

Nothing wrong with posting a link, though... ^_^

[bi11i]

no, and i'll leave it, however anti-12-step that i am. (using methadone and 12-step? how do you accomplish that one?)

[Carol]

Guys....the website has a ton more than just methadone anonymous. It's for the support of methadone ....Buprenorphine etc. There's lots of good info on Methadone...Hepatitis C etc. Our forums are also great.


BUT.....the newest thing is that we have a page called "The REAL DEAL...with Dr. Marc" and this is very cool. "Dr. Marc" is a clinical psychologist that has treated methadone patients for over 30 years. You can go there and ask him any question.....or start a discussion. So many freaking methadone "myths" flying around out there, yanno? I just now opened up this page yesterday......come on over and check it out. Ain't much there now.....but feel free to ask away!

12 step groups aren't for everyone. Mattafact....I used to have a really hard time with them and it wasn't until very recently that I attended my first MA meeting. Being on methadone myself.....I enjoyed it for obvious reasons. Was kind of cool talking to a bunch of folks like myself and not being judged because I'm not "drug free".

Hope everyone's doing well! smooooooooch.........Carol

[Sykotherapudik Lee]

Methadone Anonymous? Is that like Heroin Anonymous, or Oxycodone Anonymous? How about Buprenorphine Anonymous? How does that 12-step model adjust itself to eating dope, anyway?

Hell, if they've finally got that program working where I can use the drugs, I might go ahead and make the plunge (no pun, intended)! Bill W., here I come!

[darkangel]

i personally dont use the 12 step program[im also on methadone] but i know of a lot of methadone patients who have and are doing well. dont you think we get enough discrimination by those lucky enough not to have addiction problems without trying to tell each other what works and what does not! i just want to live some kind of tolerable existance and take care of myself and those i love, so whatever works for someone whether they take methadone and 12 step or 12 step alone or suboxone or whatever gives them their life back then i congragulate them on trying and succeding were all in this together you know!!!!!!

[Sykotherapudik Lee]

I can't go with that. I'm the anti-12. It's ignorance that allows the 12-step method to work and it's ignorance that discriminates. I'm for education. I'm all for intelligence. I'm the anti-12.

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto,
Mata ah-oo hima de
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto,
Himitsu wo shiri tai

Down with Bill W. Up with W. Burroughs. (two Bills for your W.)

[darkangel]

i dont get nothing out of 12 step but i know some highly EDUCATED people that do, so it works for them i personally dont see how but it does. im not anti anything that helps people get their life back regardless how much it doesnt work for me or how much i dont understand. as far as education, i think people should be educated on their options whatever they may be, even the ones i dont agree with. most of us knew when we started getting high that there was consequences, we just chose to ignore it. but people do need educated on what this drug thing is really all about before they start. as for junkies like me we pretty much know we need options since we all come from different walks of life some poor some rich some are dumb and some are highly educated[like myself] and we need about as many different wys out of this as there are in. diversity, it would be great if we all could do the same thing to get better, but i havent seen any one thing that works for everyone. i used to be closed minded and only seen things my way, but life and loss and experience has opened my eyes my heart and my mind!

[shaunclo]

I personally hate 12 step anything, especially 12 steps to get into my apartment, but anyone who slanders someone else just because they dont believe in it is as ignorant as you can get. If 12 step program doesnt work for you, great. Then dont read the fuckin posts you moron. Why waste your time on something that doesnt work, let alone something you despise! It makes no sense to me. Try to understand that there are different strokes for different folks. I have been forced to go to many AA's or NA's etc, and they did nothiing for me. That doesnt mean that I need to make someone else feel weak beacause they do need it. My God, cant we all just get along? ........maybe not

[Sykotherapudik Lee]

Ok, ok. I get the point. Look, I was just following what I thought where the forum rules. My position with 12-step programs is that they are ultimately a cult. The first thing to look for when classifying a cult is the inability to question its leadership. The 12-step program is completely modeled in this way; if you're questioning 'your program' then you're 'not ready yet' or 'you're going to use soon'. Even a little bit of stray form the 12-Step path and your 'program' is down the tubes, there is no hope for you, and you're doomed (at least until you come back.)

I despise 12-step; with the reason being is that the 12-step model disallows any other discovery of method. As soon as you let go of reason and start praying to the invisible man in the sky, you've lost the battle. Sure, you're clean, but what is that worth? Is the price of sobriety ignorance?

The minute you step into the 12-step model, you've closed every and any other door available to you. It's right up there with some of the other known cults, Mormonism being one of them. The 12-step model defeats the entire purpose of the drug addict's journey. Would it be good for science to drop the theory of evolution, just because intelligent design appears to be adequate for some?

I was, more or less, joking around. I read the forum rules, which state something rather specific about 'not being 12-stepped' and so I thought I'd poke at the fire a bit, that's all. My apologies..... Sincerely.

[darkangel]

just a little friendly disagreement, right, after all thats what this is for! at least were trying, so nobody is a MORON for their opinion even if they dont agree with me. so im not trying to offend anyone of you guys im glad somebody cares enough to have an opinion! but i think we can do without the name calling after all that IS judging. and the only way to get along sometimes is to disagree. God bless all of you and i hope we all find the one thing that works for us all.

[shaunclo]

I think that is the best damn description of why the 12-step program doesnt work. That was brilliantly written Lee. I have to say that I was a little dissapointed when I read the 1st post too. It felt just like I got a knock on my door at 60 am on Saturday morning from some bicycle-riding, helmet wearing mormon. (or did I mean moron) o.k., I apologize for that remark, I just couldnt help myself. Anyways, I think I owe Lee an apology also for being an asshole. Everybody has every right to speak freely, even if it is hurtful to those who are in need of something like the 12-step program. No one should ever have to feel weak because of their needs. I thought I had every answer in the book when I started using, it was all fun. Now I realize that I am just like evrybody else, or atleast like most. I have 1 friend who can use when he wants, and stop before it gets serious. I mean his control is amazing! I envy that soooooo much......so Lee, you had the right idea for sure, I guess I was just pissed-off on how you made it seem that anyone who needs any help is so completely fucked. Which I now know is how you definitley dont see it. ......I am so glad we can all get along!!!

[jacky]

I have witnessed some pretty shitty mind-fuck scenarios in the rooms of 12 step programs. I have also met some cool people, but on a mroe individual level. the group mentality sometimes strays way beyond recovery and centers on some sort of control or religious solicitations. Some people prey on newcomers niavety or loss of decision making. the program in these instances can be a load of shit. Brainwash. It is supposed to be a UN human rights violation to force anyone to join an organization, court ordered AA meetings are a good way to meet the crowd of folks you might be better off not running with. I think that a state or two in the nation stopped ordering Na and AA attendance due to this rights violation. The creator of the program, Bill W later in the 60's is rumored to have eaten LSD and thought that this would be a useful tool for alcoholism, but the already large AA organization ignored him. what I want to know is why caffeine and nicotine find their way into the meetings in such a ritualistic way, and how a person is supposed to abstain from a drug that their body produces as a waste product, or as a neurotransmitter. knowing that coffee can contain opioid antagonist lactones should be a "trigger" consideration in the rooms of NA. I think these programs are a good thing for people to see and take part in if they are indeed "recovering", at least for a few meetings, but forcing the issue is useless, and people that are forced to be there have little to offer anyone. These meetings sometimes leave people jumping to conclusions that everyone is a junky or alky in their using nature at all times...forever. what they dont see are the humble sorts who use for a reason, mindfully, or as a true break from routine, for pain relief etc. Some of these people turn into crusading zealots that we are all better off ignoring.

[jacky]

I was living in a 12 step halfway house for a few months, around the time this "rational revcovery" book came out. the house parents were totally adamandt that this book was dangerous and not for the consideration of the house as a group, they didnt even read the book. Junkies and alkys get clean, and then produce these pyramid type rehab organizations using newcomers money and time to buy propertys and work with the court systems for early release for convicts. then they take state money. the house I was in was totally corrupt, with me and other heroin addicts getting away with all sorts of shit, the crack heads and alkys would get caught using and dealing, probably cause those drugs are WHACK. while the smack heads among us hung tight for the weekend and somehow avoided detection. being that we were in charge of piss testing we didnt have to worry. this shit happens ALL THE TIME. At a place my freind was at, he was dealing a month after getting released from this halway house, the acting house parent bought dope from him and then went back to lecture newcomers on how to stay clean. IT IS A BIG FUCKING SHAM 50% of the time.

[bi11i]

My thoughts exactly, Lee. Although I won't condemn AA as a whole, because they do appear to work for some people, Lee is right, the whole AA/NA thing is a Cult, there's just no other way about it. It may work for some, but then again you have to define 'work' in this context. Mormonism is a good example of what 'works' for some, so is Christianity, or even those who decided to hop on the tail of that comet a few years back (it 'worked' for them, didn't it?)

Glad this one worked itself out....

[Sykotherapudik Lee]

After reading through the posts, I thought I'd check out some other recovery methods. Man, there's quite a few. LifeRing Secular Recovery? Anyone heard of that one? Thumb In Your Butt, Feet In The Air Recovery (TIYBFITAR)? Heard of that one? (it's my personal favorite, hell - I'm in practice right now....!)

How about Recovery Recovery? Where you're so brainwashed with recovery that you need to recover from the recovery itself? (its no wonder a 20% success rate is something to brag about....)

[JunkYardSaint]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my recollection that those that espouse any sort of "Methadone Anonymous" philosophy or try to create a group of people who supposedly follow the "12-steps" while taking methadone stand in direct opposition to the rest of the 12-step subculture most especially that of "Narcotics Anonymous" which states that under no uncertain terms methadone is a drug and not just 'a drug' but those who attempt to find recovery by using it are merely "substituting one drug addiction for another" -
I personally already have a religion, and no matter what the "12-Steppers" say, they do in fact have a religion that proclaims faith in 'a higher power' - personally my religion does not leave me wanting, and though I may agree that forms of addiction may very well be considered sin, I do not believe that using or drinking is the sin of sins, as the 12-steps seem to believe. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather suffer the failure of using every now and again than be a jerk - and believe me, I've met many "12-steppers" with years of clean time- though they may have a 'ten year chip' they're complete and total assholes that by all of their other actions will surely go to hell.
I say do the right thing and get your priorities in order, if you have a strong belief system, spirituality and/or religion you won't need twelve steps. THose that do and have found success - more power to ya!!!
Peace/Out
~jYs~

[opiobsessed]

No kidding, as far as those aa and 12 step etc meetings go, after the lousy experience I had going on a regular basis when I got out of rehab about a year ago, I have no desire to go back or be a part of it. Back last year I was encouraged to meet with the guys from this one meeting for supper and coffee etc type of get together before their meeting. I went, was like 12 or 20 guys there at the restaurant. They all started talking as usual and making jokes etc and all. Then some started talking to me, the guy who encouraged me to come started asking why I"m not working, living with family still etc and kept bothering me about why I"m not married or have a girlfriend. Well I dont care anymore if people hint that I"m gay and dont like it or whatnot, well I guess they must have been able to tell or something, because before they started buggin me they were making a few gay jokes and women jokes etc the usual. Well after realizing they were not going to "out" me in front of a bunch of strangers I didn't know, they got the hint finally and quit bugging me. I left and said the hell with that, back to my buddy vicodin I went shortly after that when I scored again. I still lie and tell everyone I"m going to a meeting, but I see what everyone means about how some of them are, all the meetings I went to, I never once met someone I liked being with or to be friends with anyway. I did always however have it in the back of my mind always, how cool it would be to meet someone at a meeting who is just there because of court order and had some goodies to share with me, but I never yet met someone cool like that or who could hook me up with their dealer etc.

[Tar_Baby]

No kidding, as far as those aa and 12 step etc meetings go, after the lousy experience I had going on a regular basis when I got out of rehab about a year ago, I have no desire to go back or be a part of it. Back last year I was encouraged to meet with the guys from this one meeting for supper and coffee etc type of get together before their meeting. I went, was like 12 or 20 guys there at the restaurant. They all started talking as usual and making jokes etc and all. Then some started talking to me, the guy who encouraged me to come started asking why I"m not working, living with family still etc and kept bothering me about why I"m not married or have a girlfriend. Well I dont care anymore if people hint that I"m gay and dont like it or whatnot, well I guess they must have been able to tell or something, because before they started buggin me they were making a few gay jokes and women jokes etc the usual. Well after realizing they were not going to "out" me in front of a bunch of strangers I didn't know, they got the hint finally and quit bugging me. I left and said the hell with that, back to my buddy vicodin I went shortly after that when I scored again. I still lie and tell everyone I"m going to a meeting, but I see what everyone means about how some of them are, all the meetings I went to, I never once met someone I liked being with or to be friends with anyway. I did always however have it in the back of my mind always, how cool it would be to meet someone at a meeting who is just there because of court order and had some goodies to share with me, but I never yet met someone cool like that or who could hook me up with their dealer etc.

AA/NA are a cult...whos statistics are bullshit..unproveable stats at that...In fact they say that going to "meetings" and not going to "meetings" give you the exact same failure rate.
Go here to read 12 step cults exposed....for the real scoop.
http://www.orange-papers.org/

[exitwound]

AA/NA are a cult...whos statistics are bullshit..unproveable stats at that...In fact they say that going to "meetings" and not going to "meetings" give you the exact same failure rate.
Go here to read 12 step cults exposed....for the real scoop.
http://www.orange-papers.org/

That deserves an 0WN3D

[satori]

AA/NA are a cult...whos statistics are bullshit..unproveable stats at that...In fact they say that going to "meetings" and not going to "meetings" give you the exact same failure rate.
Go here to read 12 step cults exposed....for the real scoop.
http://www.orange-papers.org/

These types of places try to make u subserviant to a "higher being" when you are at your weakest point. They use this tactic in torture as well. They torture you, then have some one come in and say OH im here to help you, were on the same side, help me help you. When you are going through withdrawls, scared and feel lonely you are more likely to become victomized by places like NA and that place. They may even have good intentions im not saying there bad people, but there trying to convert people when there at there weakest moments and that, if anything is a sin.


These types of places try to... well brain wash you when you are at your wekest point. you notice the little slipping in of god in there? I have been to NA meetings and things similar (when i was having a hard time going off oxy). Its complete nonsense, they take all responsibility off each person and place it in some one elses hands, they say you are weak and cant do it. THIS HELPS ADDICTION. saying that it has nothing to do with you and that only god can save you is exactly what they preach in terms of salvation. I beleive in god but i think this is much more then a cult, its a massive brain washing clinic meant to further its survival.... ok maybe its just a cult. Take responsibility yourself, if you want to quit then do it you dont need 12 steps, hell why not make it 13 or 30? I have a few steps, Taper, taper taper. Thats my program. If you dont want to stop, if you keep saying BUT I LIKE IT SOOOO MUCH then dont stop taking it~! If you really want to keep doing it then dont let others talk you out of it (I know this sounds strange but really think about it). If the only reason your quiting is because others are telling you how bad it is then re-think whats going on. You can always get Poppy pods to keep away withdrawl symptoms, make tea and evaporate it, and swallow as pill. Then lower and lower. Hell use kratom if you want.

[shaunclo]

If you dont want to stop, if you keep saying BUT I LIKE IT SOOOO MUCH then dont stop taking it~! If you really want to keep doing it then dont let others talk you out of it (I know this sounds strange but really think about it). If the only reason your quiting is because others are telling you how bad it is then re-think whats going on. You can always get Poppy pods to keep away withdrawl symptoms, make tea and evaporate it, and swallow as pill. Then lower and lower. Hell use kratom if you want.

Very true, if you stop for someone else and not for yourself, well then your in for some trouble. Sooner or later, their reasons for making you stop will start to vanish and you will start thinkin to yourself, what the hell was I thinking.

Getting clean and sober works for no one but themselves. The only way you are going to accomplish it is if it is for YOUR best intentions, not someone elses. You will start to resent whoever it is later on anyways. You just have to do it for yourself, not for the state, or your parents or your girlfiend.

[kramorph]

Methadone anonymous eh?, fuck what next, cannabis anonymous,mscontin anonymous,valium anonymous,etc.I know this joke was done before but I couldnt resist it.I like to be anonymous, so for me to become more open etc, I should go to anonymous anonymous.Gettng silly now,never mind me, Im just high on this brown stuff I made.Need more morph though, soon! Ill check the site out though.

[mmnyc9]

Wow I am no 12 step-er, but for people who really would like to see the Draconian Drug laws changed so many come out against this. If H was legal I would love to go to a HA meeting, that would be the best place to compare Afgan brown to China white.

[Canis aureus]

I'm on MMT, as all knows, and I'm not NA or AA type of sort

[HeidiW]

Gotta agree with the cult synopsis.

[opiobsessed]

That's why I walked out of aa for the last time a year ago, they all asked me why I have to be on suboxone. All I'm doing is substituting one drug for another? I felt like saying hell yea, when I can't have or afford my drug of choice, I have to have some opiate of some kind in me. even if its just a lame agonist/antagonist like sub.

Boy if I told my sub doctor my junk equation "live to get opiated, opiate to live" I bet he would kick me off the program, if I told him I am switching to methadone because suboxone doesn't give me a nice little buzz anymore.

I have a sad feeling he kind of knows anyway since he knows I've relapsed time and time again while on sub anyway. I think that's why I was treated like such a worthless junky when I wound up in the same hospital near me that my sub doc works out of. I'm labled as a junky so bad around here, I wish I could move far away and start a new great life. I wish I could just move, god I need a change, I feel like wsb when he had to rush out of NYC when he got so much heat going on him.

Well I'm in that sad boat here too, sad thing is for many reasons I'm screwed stuck here and can't move.

[DaOxyMan]

[quote=Sykotherapudik Lee;1069]Ok, ok. I get the point. Look, I was just following what I thought where the forum rules. My position with 12-step programs is that they are ultimately a cult. The first thing to look for when classifying a cult is the inability to question its leadership. The 12-step program is completely modeled in this way; if you're questioning 'your program' then you're 'not ready yet' or 'you're going to use soon'. Even a little bit of stray form the 12-Step path and your 'program' is down the tubes, there is no hope for you, and you're doomed (at least until you come back.)

^although i hate 12 step as well, the 12 stepp shit i did was not like this as far i recall...although i was high on dope n Noddin out ...i really don't like em haha

[HistoryofMadness]

Ok, ok. I get the point. Look, I was just following what I thought where the forum rules. My position with 12-step programs is that they are ultimately a cult. The first thing to look for when classifying a cult is the inability to question its leadership. The 12-step program is completely modeled in this way; if you're questioning 'your program' then you're 'not ready yet' or 'you're going to use soon'. Even a little bit of stray form the 12-Step path and your 'program' is down the tubes, there is no hope for you, and you're doomed (at least until you come back.)

^although i hate 12 step as well, the 12 stepp shit i did was not like this as far i recall...although i was high on dope n Noddin out ...i really don't like em haha

damn, that's cool... you must've gotten a decent group, doxym. my treatment / 12 step experience is similar to lee's - that is, i've always been told that i was just to do as i'm told, because my reasoning is obviously flawed, or i wouldn't be a fucked up junky.

now, i have a couple of problems with that... first, the person telling me what to do isn't me, probably doesn't know me, and most likely was also a fucked up junky at one time. the other problem i have is that although maybe i'm a fucked up junky, if i was really making so many bad decisions, then i probably wouldn't have been in treatment / 12 step meeting anyway.

finally, i had a rude awakening one night when my friend reminded me that 'self-help' groups are called that because it is up to us to help ourselves... reading a book or doing exactly as someone else says isn't 'self-help' at all...

the best thing i ever helped myself by doing was getting the fuck away from 12stepping. i have all respect for anyone that uses it when it works, but i usually suspect that those people were ready anyway.