Conversion of Buprenorphine to other opiate?

[RFE]

Has it been done? Don't get me wrong, bupe is a great advancement in the opiate scene. However the thought has crossed my mind many times since reading hundreds of pages of morphine/oxymorphone/fentanyl conversion guides.

Any input is appreciated; I will post anything relevant as well.

RFE

[Paregoric Kid]

I believe there are some reactions that would turn it into oxymorphone or something similar. it is a synthetic thebaine derivative so there are probably many other possibilities.

[Duckfeet]

Is this why some countries, Thailand or somewhere, they often would use another drug at the same time as bupe, even combining them to inject? I often wondered if it was kind of like the old 'T's and Blues' or "codeine and doridan" or other combos, where certain drugs "kicked in" the opiates...I know u chemists know much more about how this works...me, I'm just curious...

[DCBA]

DF, what drug is that they mix?

[Narkotikon]

The chemical name of buprenorphine is

(2S)-2-[(-)-(5R,6R,7R,14S)-
9α-cyclopropylmethyl-4,5-epoxy-
6,14-ethano-3-hydroxy-
6-methoxymorphinan-7-yl]-
3,3-dimethylbutan-2-ol

Like Paregoric Kid said, it's a thebaine derivative and related to oxymorphone. So is Narcan (the other ingredient in Suboxone).

It's name is 17-allyl-4,5α-epoxy-3,14-dihydroxymorphinan-6-one

I don't know what you would have to do to convert it to plain oxymorphone, but it would be interesting if you could.

[Duckfeet]

I'm not sure: I'll try to google and see what I come up with...it's just in the back of my head, that when I first heard about bupe, that there were all kinds of stories coming out of orient, that people were fixing them with something else...and that it had become a real problem, and that also, it was causing problems like tar does, u know, bad for surrounding tissue, all that...

DF, what drug is that they mix?

[Poppylvr]

Is this why some countries, Thailand or somewhere, they often would use another drug at the same time as bupe, even combining them to inject? I often wondered if it was kind of like the old 'T's and Blues' or "codeine and doridan" or other combos, where certain drugs "kicked in" the opiates...I know u chemists know much more about how this works...me, I'm just curious...

hey DF - in my early IV days I did a mix of benedryl & stadol. Nice b/c I wasn't stealing narcotics, and the rush was EXCELLENT! Hmmm, wish I could get my hands on some Stadol these days, although my 6-8mg bupe/day habit would render it useless, I'm guessing.

[Opiyum]

I read a few ariticles that are similar to what duck is talking about. What I remember was people using subutex mixed with dormicum and some other benzo's in singapore I think...or thailand. Somewhere like that.
I don't think the cocktails included any opiates mixed with the subutex because that doesn't really work. Bupe, in small amounts, can sometimes help increase the longevity of other opiates when taken together but I don't think an increased rush is something you will get from such a cocktail.

[RFE]

I have continued research on this topic and had several discussions with my good chemist friend. He assured me that buprenorphine can AND IS being converted to oxycodone and oxymorphone. I asked him to be more specific on where he found this information, and he mentioned that there is a world wide opium/alkaloid distributer & research facility in Tasmania that is actively doing this. See the quote below:

Codeine sells for around $500 per kilogram, but buprenorphine is much more valuable and is worth
around $50,000 per kg. Buprenorphine is a very powerful pain killer and other Johnson & Johnson
sister companies convert buprenorphine into oxycodone, which is used in a patch form to treat very
strong pain.

The well known Johnson & Johnson company is running this overseas, and the company is called Tasmanian Alkaloids. You can find their website here: http://www.tasalk.com.au/
I am in the process of acquiring a synthesis guide for this type of conversion; it should be possible to do all this at room temperature with nothing but good Pyrex equipment.

Two distinct varieties of poppies are grown by farmers for Tasmanian Alkaloids. The first of these
is the standard morphine poppy which contains morphine and this morphine can be converted
chemically into codeine. The other poppy is known as the “Norman”poppy which contains thebaine.
The thebaine alkaloid can be converted chemically into buprenorphine. Interestingly, the morphine
poppies produce thebaine as an earlier part of the process of creating morphine, but this thebaine
is converted by the biochemical reactions in the poppy into morphine and hence the thebaine is no
longer present in any large amount in the morphine poppy.

As far as I know, this is the first forum to openly discuss the topic. I will not be making this information completely public, but of course available for any opiophile member via PM.

Your dedicated junkie,
RFE
:drinkit:

[Opiyum]

There are no private messages now. Everything is public just so you know. You don't appear to be close to any violation or anything like that and don't think of this as a warning in any way because it isn't I Just wanted to let you know we got rid of the PM's.

[Poppylvr]

RFE, please keep updating us.
This is most intriguing...

[krinkov]

This could get really good!

[Tea Time]

I read a few ariticles that are similar to what duck is talking about. What I remember was people using subutex mixed with dormicum and some other benzo's in singapore I think...or thailand. Somewhere like that.

I remember that the same type of thing was going on with bupe and benzos in france as well. Bupe is apparently a drug of prevalent abuse and it has a pretty bad track record of causing OD's and OD deaths especially when used IV with benzos. I'll see if I can find some documentation...

I think someone here posted an article about this though that included like a medical paper as well. The medical paper had pictures of abcesses and other issues from shooting bupe...

[DCBA]

According to the Johnson & Johnson company their morphine variety of poppy pods have a mean 2% of morphine after removing seeds... not bad at all.. About almost twice the standard! From a kilo of PP you get 20grs of morph! not bad..

[robojunkie]

I doubt anyone is going to convert bupe to oxy anything anytime soon. First ya gotta magically get rid of that cyclopropylmethyl group on the Nitrogen, maybe with cyanogen bromide but this would probably shred the rest of ring or do nothing, then one would have the beneficial (ie why get rid of it???) dihydroetheno bridge (just look at the two structures and see the obvious differences) and the Grignard adduct (the part that gives the "bupe" part of the name, very similar to etorphine). If cyanogen bromide could work to remove the cyclopropylmethyl group (and subsequent reactions) one could have a close derivative of etorphine, but I can't fathom how one could ever get an oxy anything from bupe. From thebaine yes, bupe no.

Sorry but I'd rather have dihydro"etorphine" derivative anyway.

[RFE]

UPDATE:
We have managed to remove some of the chemical groups with cyanogen bromide as robojunkie suggested last year. The key is to add extra anhydrous calcium chloride after the sodium cyanide is introducted when brewing the bromide. The solution must be given extra time to react and it must be done at around 25 degrees C.
The initial results were not too impressive, but after some adjustments we were able to bring 8mg of subutex into a consumable form that offered an interesting euphoria improvement. I will keep everyone posted, thanks for reading.

[Woody Bear]

Codeine sells for around $500 per kilogram, but buprenorphine is much more valuable and is worth
around $50,000 per kg. Buprenorphine is a very powerful pain killer and other Johnson & Johnson
sister companies convert buprenorphine into oxycodone, which is used in a patch form to treat very
strong pain.

Look at that quote (from this very old thread), it says that oxycodone is used in patch form to treat very strong pain. Oxycodone doesn't come in batch form, but buprenorphine does. Also it says how the price of codeine is much, much lower than the price of buprenorphine, so the drug companies have financial incentive to convert codeine in to buprenorphine. So that's what the article was really about. The journalist misunderstood, and/or misquoted.

Codeine can be converted into thebaine, which is used to make either oxycodone or buprenorphine. But for all the reasons Robojunkie gave, buprenorphine can't be converted into oxycodone.

There's an established drug production pathway for poppy products:
Morphine -> codeine
Thebaine -> Oxycodone -> Oxymorphone
Thebaine -> a few steps -> buprenorphine

That's how they mostly do it.
Codeine can get converted into thebaine, which was quite common before the thebaine rich strain of P. somniferum was developed. But there's higher demand for codeine then there is for morphine, so that's why most of the extracted morphine gets converted into codeine.

The drug companies already have thebaine, so they can either make oxycodone or buprenorphine from it. But there's no point in making buprenorphine from the thebaine, then trying to convert that into oxycodone. It wouldn't work, and it would be a waste of time and precurser chemicals. It would be like making a cake, then extracting the sugar from the cake in order to make bread.

[Paregoric Kid]

like woody said, the amount of codeine they extract from the opium isn't enough to meet the demand for it so they take the morphine and methylate it. where did you hear about them using codeine before the thebaine-enhanced poppies were around? I've never heard that before.
obviously a drug company wouldn't bother to produce something by starting with buprenorphine but I'm pretty sure turning it into an mu agonist is doable but that it would be like trying to make methcathinone from bupropion, why bother starting with something like that when there is an easier precursor in that case pseudoephedrine; in this case there is thebaine and oripavine which can be extracted from Papaver orientale and bracteatum.

[RFE]

Here is an update that I posted in another thread:

Hey guys, I randomly stumbled upon this thread while searching. I owe it to everyone to post an update, even though there has not been too much progress since I last posted. During this whole process my life went out of control a bit and I had to join a methadone program to stay sane/alive/stable.

Anyways... just to refresh your memory... I am not the one doing these tests and chemical work. My close friend who is not a member here or anywhere else is running this project & I am simply relaying information back to the forums, documenting everything via pictures+text, and beta testing his approved substances. I have no significant knowledge of chemistry and my friend (mad max we call him) is completely clean and only in it for the money. The last milestone he reached around middle of November 2009 resulted in a mostly converted brew that was unfortunately rather toxic to the liver. Mad max said that he is unable to remove certain toxic elements from the last 2 passes because of the lack of legally available chemicals. He says "there is no shortcut for using the right stuff" which makes sense. Not having chloroform for example is a problem because purity-washes can not be performed correctly without it. The goal of the project is to meet the objective without any adverse effects. Two requirements are to avoid utilizing federally restricted substances and to only use reactions that don't require extreme +/- temperatures. After a few more rounds of research, I should have another update for everyone. If you have any suggestions or want to discuss chemistry, please contact me and I will put you in touch with Mad Max.

Thanks for reading, and have a great day!
-RFE!!!

The next update should be early to mid March with some cool images
-RFE

[Thanat0s]

hey DF - in my early IV days I did a mix of benedryl & stadol. Nice b/c I wasn't stealing narcotics, and the rush was EXCELLENT! Hmmm, wish I could get my hands on some Stadol these days, although my 6-8mg bupe/day habit would render it useless, I'm guessing.

i used to shoot diphenhydramine for its rush actually.
8ct 25mg in 3cc i did it habitually.
never told anyone before
really,

[More Feen]

If we're talking about kitchen chemistry here (nothing too complicated) the only reaction that would be in the realm of "safe" is probably morph--> harry.

I guess you have some decent skills, and equipment--that's good. But if you're reactions are involving cyanide-compounds (cyanogens??) etc..., that's would be enough to scare me away.

I don't have the skills for purifying/isolating etc..., so I hope you will be careful, and maybe before using on any living creature, you can run GC/MS (would infrared spectroscopy work--salt discs & all??) and check for any scary signatures.

Good luck!

M F

[China white]

getting a bup ratio is really tough....doubling the dose wont necesarily double the effect

[sexualhealing]

def not kill...

i feel with bupe, as some say less is more.... TO A POINT.


like it all depends on tolerance and dosage, but i will tell u if i do more than say.....20 mg in a day.... split into say one 8mg sublingual dose in the morning and then (3) 4mg iv doses later in the day, it def seems to be my cap on pleasure.

anymore ingested makes me have splitting headaches and doesnt make me get that quasi-opiated feeling.


right now i am on 8mg sublingual (8am this morning) and (2) 4mg shots, one done at 4pm or so and the other just min ago around 10:15 pm and i def am feeeling GREAT.


nodding off on this post AT LEAST ONCE already and an email to one my my girls like 4 times.


granted the klonopin and wine dont hurt this, BUT i get noticable effects without the wine at least. always on the kpins so i dont know.


popped 4mgs around 8 with my..... hmmmm at a bottle and a half of wine right now, plan to finish the bottle before bed as a i play DANTES INFERNO on 360, which is a killer game btw.....


anywho, i strongly AGREE with your opinion about the dosage curve of this shit as it seems if i would have say, done everyting AT ONCE today, i wouldnt feel near as good. even if all iv'ed.


nor would i have felt as good if i did 8mg sublingual and shot 8mg.

spliting it up into smaller doses for whatever reason DOES increase the effects for me personaly. def not placebo as i have done so many lines/shots of this shit that i KNOW its not in my head but rather a very un-reliable dosage curve.


i feel, less is more for getting some sort of buzz out of it, and also, with that being said, spreading out doses also increases effects...... which is like NO OPIOD I HAVE EVER DONE IN MY LIFE!!!!



itss like.....an oxy 80 or 3...i will do ALL of them at once and KNOW it will feel best....


suboxone, i am like.... ok i have an extra 8mg..... lets split this into 2 or 3 doses and do it at 5pm/9pm/12am and i def get a much better feeling and the restraint to do just that....



all in all, as my drunk self is rambeling, WHAT A WEIRD, YET INTERESTING COMPOUND!!!!


much love to everyone,
peace!