Zenpunk's Bupe Detox Diary

[zenpunk]

You were right about the pot mikells43, bad idea. I was back in agony in no time with no real mental control over it No good. Had to do .25 of sub (literally a chip). I may do .5 in the end. But I learned a valuable lesson. And originally today I was going to do 1.0.

[zenpunk]

The .25 was a tiny bump insuffulated (I know, I know). How much of that .25 did I actually get. I'm actually in pretty wicked pain. Did I mention Pot was a bad idea?

[mikells43]

lol yep, cause once the pot wears off all that shit comes back that u numbed away or smoked away 10 times as tough. they had a true life on oxy addiction on mtv at 4 im watching it now. the dude snorting the oxy actually fucked with my head lol, not too bad tho.

[zenpunk]

you couldn't be more right mikells43. 10 times as bad. well hopefully the board is taking notes! Pot = good for the first 10 minutes.

[zenpunk]

DIARY SUNDAY:

Slept horribly and woke up for half the night, just laying there. Only insuffulated that .25 yesterday that did nothing. I added it into my chart until I know if this ROA (suboxone) has a different absorption percentage. It really didn't change the curve all that much. Today I drop to less than 1mg in my system (1.45 to .91mg). I'd like to think this is the nearing the end.

It seems like forever since I've been well now. I just want a day where I wake up and don't feel like shit. Today its just a low level pain, just as annoying, in my legs and I still can't walk around that well.

And mentally, man, I woke up with that horrible impending doom feeling its horrible. Then anger, then sadness. What is sad is that its all the old feelings I used to have all time. And that really sucks. I guess I was hoping the same 'ol me didn't emerge out the other side from the Heroin fog.

[zenpunk]

Afternoon, still hanging in, trying to drink lots of water. Nose started running and I ended up snorting back out the .25mg from yesterday afternoon. I'll make it though today. Its gonna be hell getting up and going to work tomorrow.

[Duckfeet]

Yep, maint thing I did learn from AA, that really helped, was I didn't have to do this shit for life, and experience alone tells me that I'll get to get loaded again, so I can always put it off another day...in other words, 1Day at a time, seems to help, when kicking...if not it's too discouraging...gets better, hang in there...

[mikells43]

also playing the tape thru, or the dvd, cd, blu-ray or whatever you have ur recordings on to watch the entire thing not just the part of the good feeling.

[zenpunk]

Yeah l knew I was at the end when I had company over and I had to constantly sneak out of the room to "get right". I was ashamed that I could barely make it through a half a day taking them sightseeing without having to fix. I knew the old me, that went to the gym every day would have been running around full of energy. I knew I was at the moment where I could get better now and get my health back or keep using massive amounts of H and Benzos and watch everything continue to spiral.

I have the shits and its basically all oil?!? Any ideas? Just started in the last hour.

[mikells43]

hmmmmm, hmmmmm, thats not my fav thing about this lol. immodium is the only hting that will work. if u take lamotil its a narcotic like demerol and atropine.

[GoddessofRATs]

That oil is probably your body cleaning itself out. You've had a lot of junk in you for a long time, just like all of us here. Your body is probably trying to get rid of whatever is lurking in your system. I seem to recal having oil like runs after a few days of w/d. I think it's jsut your system cleaning itself.

I could be wrong.

GOR

[zenpunk]

Yeah I'm gonna ride the shits out - get that stuff out of my system. My legs keep having like "tingling spells". More tingle, less pain.

[GoddessofRATs]

Yea that's the best thing to do. I know taking some immodium would help but you should probably try and let all that stuff come out. It's all part of the detox, not only does your mind need to detox but your body does as well. And your emotions as well.

Just let it all come out. Try drinking some Lemon water, that i hear is helpful during a detox to get all the funk out of your system

GOR

[mikells43]

Gleaciu vitamin water is good too, or however u spell it. gatoraide too

[zenpunk]

Good idea. I spent 10 minutes on the elliptical machine, try to push the toxins out. Funny, I got it for my birthday but I was already too much of a junkie to ever use it. Gatoraide is a great idea.

[RxQueen]

i finally got a chance to read this thread the whole way through. GREAT job, zenpunk! the diary is a fabulous idea. it's gonna be good to be able to refer people to this when they ask what a sub taper will be like. i know that it's different for everyone, but these detailed descriptions will be able to let folks get a good general idea of what they might expect.

and congratulations to you on getting this far! i'll be checking back to read about your progress... i hope it all goes as painlessly as possible. keep up the good work, you'll get there!

[zenpunk]

DIARY MONDAY:

Made it to work barely. I have like an hour commute if I go into the office. Could barely move every joint aches. But I haven't been sleeping and I knew I had to go do a day of something besides the couch. I'm cranking the heater on my legs.

Mentally I feel like hell. All the things I avoided, troubled relationships, etc. are all bearing down on my mind with brute force. My house feels like a prison, I just want to sell it and move far far away...

[OxyContinuously]

ur doin' a great job, tho ;-)

commendable actually, going to work also? hats off 2 u!!

[zenpunk]

ur doin' a great job, tho ;-)

commendable actually, going to work also? hats off 2 u!!

Well I'm managing to get through a 4 hour work day without throwing up all over the place.

[OxyContinuously]

Well I'm managing to get through a 4 hour work day without throwing up all over the place.

good 4 u, that's saying a LOT.....many people (me included) usually skieve work when sick and generally rot until either a) i get right or b) it passes due to time

great job

[zenpunk]

Is all this still WDs? According to my graph today I'm dropping from .9 mg of Suboxone in my system to .56 mg. I'm not taking any more Suboxone (haven't since Sat) I'm determined to ride this out. How much more intensive WDs (where I'm walking around really physically sick) do I have to take?

[Duckfeet]

First: you're doing really good: I can't make it thru a day w/out puking, so yer ahead of me by a long shot...and I'm detoxing w/out wanting to LOL

Second: No one *really* knows how long it will last, or how many days it will be bad: there are just too many factors, and the post withdral crap (PAWS) is all over the place, w/some people barely feeling it, and others months of gloom....

That's why I always say kicking is kind of lonely...people want to give u comfort, u know, show solidarity, act like we have some kind of graph, and that on day *4* or something, it will all end, but nah...it's gradual and individual, and happiness seems to come at first in short bursts, then more regular, until finally, *gloom* sticks out, and yer o.k....

But in between what yer going thru, and the "happy" times is just some lonely motherfucking shit, and all u can do is hang in, until it gets better.... Subs are too new, and people argue angrily about withdrawals...to me, day 3 was the worst...I've never seen day 4....

Best wishes, hang in...

Is all this still WDs? According to my graph today I'm dropping from .9 mg of Suboxone in my system to .56 mg. I'm not taking any more Suboxone (haven't since Sat) I'm determined to ride this out. How much more intensive WDs (where I'm walking around really physically sick) do I have to take?

[mikells43]

as the bupe comes out of ur system. u will begin to w/d , the w/d is not going to be as harsh as coming stragight off of dope(at least i dont wanna say it is goign to be , i can't be for sure tho). all i can say is take the proper precautions u would like gatoraide, vitimans, and stay away from anything addictive. right now ur brain is going to latch on to anything it can, and thats all u wanna do is pu't something else thats even remotely addictive in u. cause u might run the risk of a whole other addiciton all over again.

[chopstix]

I've been exactly where you're at so many times, I couldn't even begin to count. The fact that you have walked away from opportunit/y(ies) is golden, that means you're gonna make it. Most people in your shoes (including me) turn into chronic relapsers and that's a *really* hard cycle to break once it's habit. I won't go into the details simply because it's not you and you don't need to know, this *is* what you need to know:

There is no realistic time frame for when you'll feel better, it's based on: your history with opiates, your DOC and the quality, your metabolism, your health and what you do with yourself over the next few weeks. The key is to focus on the moment, don't look ahead, tell yourself you feel better *now* no matter what your brain is telling you - you've been lying to it and now it needs to catch up to reality because it's been on such a sweet vacation.

How to jumpstart the Hypothalmus and endorphin production: EXERCISE and nutrition - things that feel good; think about it, you've been sniffing fake endorphins for the past several months so your brain ceases/limits production, you suddenly stop this massive chemical imbalance and your brains says "fuck you - I'm on vacation" and it takes awhile to go back to work, you just need to kick it in the butt.

Good movies, good food, exercise is key - whether it's a walk to the park or 20 minutes on a stationary bike, it's probably the most important thing you can do - *get up* and walk somewhere, hot baths, great sex, go to the SPCA and hang out with the kittens, ANYTHING you can do to get the endorphins flowing will return you to normal cycles. PAWS can last for months but *it will* get better and the more pro-active you are, the better off you are, do ANYTHING that makes you feel good aside from opiates.

I am normally not a proponent of MJ, but in my experience, it can help pass time, which is what this comes down to. I think it's better to take a walk up a steep hill than to smoke a J and zone on the history channel, but it's better than sitting on the couch and feeling like shit, weed helps me pass time, I smoke a little when kicking but the more you move your body and the more you can feel good through natural means, the sooner you'll feel better. Trust me, just be grateful you're not kicking methadone..

This diary rocks. Thanks for taking the time and hang in there because it's just a temporary chemical imbalance and it will straighten itself out, if you cheat, you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of cheating. Also, I'd recommend staying away from SSRIs, evil stuff..

Good luck Zen.

[kyuss]

Definitely doing great.
It's the hardest thing
in the world to do
and like dying
or being born
we do it alone.
It'll get better,sugar-
just keep at it.

[chopstix]

And something else I want to add, I don't see this mentioned often and I think it's important. People tend to overlook the strength of bup - it's REALLY potent stuff. Rough equivalency is something like 100-150x stronger than morphine (IM/IV); methadone is roughly 3x stronger than morphine and has a half life much closer to bup, so 1mg of bup is about equal to 100mg morphine which is roughly 33mg methadone (approximately, stats dependent on source) - that's a lot of dope, considering.. If you walk at .5mg bup, it's about like walking off ~16mg methadone.

I'm a believer in .25mg and under doses and I think we'll see the pharm companies breaking this stuff into smaller doses for maintenance/taper purposes, if they don't, then it's probably intentional.

(Again), good luck, I personally would choose a couple more .25mg doses (2-3x/week) over missing too much more of a good job. You're tapering and as long as you continue a scheduled drop, you will adjust..

Equivalency calc: http://www.medcalc.com/narcotics.html

[Brony]

I'm making this thread stickied. This is a good insight into the Subutex/Suboxone experience.

[zenpunk]

DIARY TUESDAY: Finally called my therapist yesterday afternoon. Yesterday was a day of mental crisis, of guilt over wrongs, etc. Told her I'd basically been an addict for the last two years coming into therapy for my PTSD and blowing smoke up her ass about how I was getting better. She told me if I was still feeling bad I should at least see my Dr. So I did, and was basically shown the door and told I couldn't be helped. She also recommended an outpatient program at Phelps in Tarrytown, NY (if anyone knows this program please fill me in).

I called Phelps in the morning and they said a hospital had to check me out and declare me in good health and not needing a medical detox before they would see me. More bullshit. But I was feeling like hell and thought oh well, let me go to the ER up the road from work. Of course, they aren't equipped to deal with opiated detox only alcohol. But I showed them my Suboxone detox chart and told them everything I've done to detox and they said "ok, they'd take me in and check me out to make sure physically I was ok". Everything came back fine and I got IV fluids and I feel a little better. Then I called Phelps and they said they could interview me for their outpatient program on Monday afternoon which gives me some more time to be even healthier. They told me not to do a single thing, not a hit of MJ nothing, until I show up at their door.

I don't know if I'm taking the right route but I know if I don't do something drastic I will be in the same cycle over and over again as its been with alcohol, vicodin, benzos, moving up to the almighty H. There are things in my life I need to address and I have been covering them over with drugs sadly. I'm really scared as hell and I would love to hide and never make a decision, but if I do that, I'll be back on the wagon in no time.

I feel a little better after the IV fluids, not much but a little better.

[GoddessofRATs]

Good step sweetie! But, that doctor showing you the door and saying they can't help makes me so god damn mad. Did that doc even lead you in the right direction to where you could get help or did you get the ER idea somewhere else. The least a doctor could do is get you going in the right direction if he can't help you.

I must be getting my period (which i haven't had in like 3 months because of my opiate use) because everything is irritating me lol.

Anyway. I would think you probably need a couple days of IV fluids for it really to help. IV fluids are helpful for so many things and being in detox i am sure you are dehydrated. I'd go back and ask for more fluids, say you felt dizzy when you stand up, that usually means dehydration, at least that's what the docs told me when i was in the hospital for a week with a sever kidney infection about 8 years ago. Hey, really... the only reason i even stayed that whole week was because they gave me dilaudid shots every 6 hours and Percocet every 4 hours he he. Oh yea and IV ATB's and fluids. IF they hadn't given me the oppies, i would have checked out with the ATB's but when they told me the pain management regimen they'd have me on, i was like "huh, well... yea i guess i can stay 5-7 days, no problem ROTFL. Oh man did i enjoy those 6 days. Except when this idiot doctor did a pelvic exam on me, omg, it felt like an elephant was trampling inside my vagina and uterus. That doctor should never be allowed to touch a female again lol. But, after the exam i did get an extra dillie shot LOL.

Anyway... ahhhh memories lol. I digress. anyway, if you don't feel good go back to the ER and say you are dizzy upon standing and they'll give ya more IV fluids, also say you've been throwing up. I gurantee the fluids will make you feel a lot better.

I'm so proud of you Zen, very proud of you. Wish i had your strengh, courage and willpower!!! You amaze me for doing this!!!

GOR

[mikells43]

fucking doctors are ASSHOLES, how could they tell u that? what dooshes. id fucking call my lawyer if esp a phsyc doc told u that shit. woah. and if u havn't been feeling sihtty allready. have u been to rehab before? do u kno what they teach u there? in outpt of course. if the answer is yes. and u dont want to feel like shit. id go to a bupe doctor if i were u. thats just me tho. paws last a long time