Watson MS Contins...the story continues...

[moviebuff927]

Hey everyone...

I'm sure some of you can remember the thread I posted several months ago about MY way of cooking MS Contins (the Ethex brand) which involved heating the water first then adding the crushed pill. But, I've gotten reports from several people who have said that that doesn't work for all brands of MS Contin. At first I didn't believe it, I just thought they weren't doing it right. But, the pharmacy has now changed generic brands again and instead of the easy to break down Ethex, I have gel-the-fuck-up Watsons. I've wasted quite a few pills by now trying my way and it not working. So I began to experiment a little more, researched the different components of each pill and came to the following conclusion:

The only inactive ingredients that are in the Watson pills and not the Ethex are hydroxyethyl cellulose and polyethylene glycol. I guess those are what makes the pills almost impossible to break down.

But then I tried the crisping method. The first time, I heated up a Pyrex dish and heat it up on the stove, got it red hot and threw the pills on it...they smoked and were damn near vaporized almost instantly. I stupidly tried to cool off the glass by running water over it...and of course the glass shattered in my hands.

Then I tried this: I got my candle, spoon/cooker, and took the coating off of the pill. Put it on the spoon, and it began to melt like crack does. It then began to carmelize and the pill was extremely fragile and fell apart when I turned it over with some tweezers. But, it broke down and when I added water, it didn't gel up AS MUCH and was MUCH EASIER to draw up in a U-100.

So, I guess it's all about the brand of generic you get. The Contins can be defeated, you just have to know your enemy. But, I don't think either of these techniques will work on the new Opanas. Apparently they REALLY don't want people to put that in their veins because they use a material that, as far as I know, cannot be defeated at this point in time...

But give me some time... :D

- m o v i e b u f f

[oxydose]

good to know, crisping has always been to much hassle seeing that whenever I get those specific pills that I never have over 2.

I'll give this a try next time I get some.

Could you lookup the generic Impax/Ivax/Dana (all the same pill lol) OxyContin's and see if thats the same extra two ingrediants in them also... Adding water to these makes the exact same kind of gel-snot like substance that the Watson ABG MSContin's do, and I suspect that they both contain the same gelling binder.

[moviebuff927]

good to know, crisping has always been to much hassle seeing that whenever I get those specific pills that I never have over 2.

I'll give this a try next time I get some.

Could you lookup the generic Impax/Ivax/Dana (all the same pill lol) OxyContin's and see if thats the same extra two ingrediants in them also... Adding water to these makes the exact same kind of gel-snot like substance that the Watson ABG MSContin's do, and I suspect that they both contain the same gelling binder.

Ivax is a division of Teva...I couldn't find the prescribing information for their generic OxyContin...

It's really wierd, though, how if you try to crisp the Ethex MS Contins, they stay solid and take a while to burn...but the Watsons almost instantly change consistency and melt down fast...it's almost like 2 totally different objects. I'm not sure why those inactive gels cause so much variation in the way they work, but they do.

[Azrael]

If the ones you get are blue 100s and say something like E658 on them, then they are the same ones I have been shooting up with ease (and practice) for a very long time. crisping is the way to go, though I use a zippo and a big spoon, and not a pyrex and a microwave or anything like that. Shock the powder with saline a little stir and a real dense cotton. I try to pool the mix up after adding the water and also when I puncture the cotton I try to lift it up (does this make sense) with the needle so that I can move it around the spoon and suck up all the liquid without it getting gunked up. it's hard to explain but just doing this prevents an extra 10-20% loss so I get around 60-70% instead of 50%. I'm guessing when I use one and a half pills I can get at most 90mg out of 150mg, which is quite a big shot, I make sure to inject slow so I don't blow up (swell up). Let me know if you need help or clarification on any part of this. most people say crisping is more of a hassle than it is worth but to tell you the truth for me it takes less time than it does to do up two ABG oxy 80s, since these mscontin are really easy to crush.

[Azrael]

Ivax is a division of Teva...I couldn't find the prescribing information for their generic OxyContin...

It's really wierd, though, how if you try to crisp the Ethex MS Contins, they stay solid and take a while to burn...but the Watsons almost instantly change consistency and melt down fast...it's almost like 2 totally different objects. I'm not sure why those inactive gels cause so much variation in the way they work, but they do.


Again if you have the same MS Contins, these ones do not have microcrystalline cellulose (waxy stuff I think), which I believe is in nearly all forms of MS Contin. The only thing I could find that might be close in these is hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, whatever the hell that it is.

[moviebuff927]

If the ones you get are blue 100s and say something like E658 on them, then they are the same ones I have been shooting up with ease (and practice) for a very long time. crisping is the way to go, though I use a zippo and a big spoon, and not a pyrex and a microwave or anything like that. Shock the powder with saline a little stir and a real dense cotton. I try to pool the mix up after adding the water and also when I puncture the cotton I try to lift it up (does this make sense) with the needle so that I can move it around the spoon and suck up all the liquid without it getting gunked up. it's hard to explain but just doing this prevents an extra 10-20% loss so I get around 60-70% instead of 50%. I'm guessing when I use one and a half pills I can get at most 90mg out of 150mg, which is quite a big shot, I make sure to inject slow so I don't blow up (swell up). Let me know if you need help or clarification on any part of this. most people say crisping is more of a hassle than it is worth but to tell you the truth for me it takes less time than it does to do up two ABG oxy 80s, since these mscontin are really easy to crush.

Yes, those are the Ethex, and those are my favorite in terms of ease of shooting. I got so good at it that it didn't take me long at all to get 'em, prep 'em, and then shoot 'em. I have never crisped those, though. I just heated my water up in the spoon, poured in the crushed up powder, added a little more water, and then reheated just a little bit. When I threw the cotton in, it would puff up really quick so that's a good sign. Then I pulled back the plunger and the liquid was like water, no gel consistency or anything. But, all good things must come to an end and I am again in the engineer's chair trying to find the easiest and fastest way to shoot these Watsons. I just got through trying to crisp another two and it takes a little minute to get them to where they start to "melt" and then they fall apart and start to carmelize. I don't want to burn them, so I get it to where most of them are tan-brown and stop heating. I tried crushing that crisped pill up further, but I don't think it really did a lot of good. Then I heated my water, threw in the crisped, crushed pill and it STILL is hard to draw up, but easier than it was before. Not near as easy as the Ethex, but it gets the job done after a BUNCH of work. Also, with the Ethex the only residue that is left is a powder-like consistency and there's very little of it. With these Watsons, you can't help but leave a little residue because you can't draw it all up.

I hope like hell that the pharmacy will go back to Ethex SOON!

[nick]

Necessity is the mother of invention,right bro?

Just think if you put this kinda effort in to making movies......you'd be the new Orson Wells.

[moviebuff927]

Necessity is the mother of invention,right bro?

Just think if you put this kinda effort in to making movies......you'd be the new Orson Wells.

Thanks for the compliment, nick. But for some reason, I choose not to get too excited about making movies because it'll probably never happen. I don't have the motivation. But you're right; if I were to put half as much effort into fulfilling my dreams, I'd be really successful...

[nick]

Thanks for the compliment, nick. But for some reason, I choose not to get too excited about making movies because it'll probably never happen. I don't have the motivation. But you're right; if I were to put half as much effort into fulfilling my dreams, I'd be really successful...

We ALL would bro.

Oh and NEVER give up on the movies.

[flipside]

Leave it to MB to experiment and find a way to defeat the ER on the diff brands of generic.
you are right it is diff for diff brands.
I remember you were the one who first taught me how to defeat my ER with the first method you mentioned.
I tried this with the Opana and it did not work

The IR's break down as easily as D's.

I have no doubt if there is a way to defeat the Opna ER you will find it.

Hope the movie dream is just on hold..

[Azrael]

Yes, those are the Ethex, and those are my favorite in terms of ease of shooting. I got so good at it that it didn't take me long at all to get 'em, prep 'em, and then shoot 'em. I have never crisped those, though. I just heated my water up in the spoon, poured in the crushed up powder, added a little more water, and then reheated just a little bit. When I threw the cotton in, it would puff up really quick so that's a good sign. Then I pulled back the plunger and the liquid was like water, no gel consistency or anything. But, all good things must come to an end and I am again in the engineer's chair trying to find the easiest and fastest way to shoot these Watsons. I just got through trying to crisp another two and it takes a little minute to get them to where they start to "melt" and then they fall apart and start to carmelize. I don't want to burn them, so I get it to where most of them are tan-brown and stop heating. I tried crushing that crisped pill up further, but I don't think it really did a lot of good. Then I heated my water, threw in the crisped, crushed pill and it STILL is hard to draw up, but easier than it was before. Not near as easy as the Ethex, but it gets the job done after a BUNCH of work. Also, with the Ethex the only residue that is left is a powder-like consistency and there's very little of it. With these Watsons, you can't help but leave a little residue because you can't draw it all up.

I hope like hell that the pharmacy will go back to Ethex SOON!

See What you call ethex I have always called Endo, and another person I know has always called them Watsons. It's all just referring to blue 100mg pills without a coating (can be found on the endo website) and say E658 on them.

Noow that I think about it though I don't think I have ever heated the water then threw the powder in with these. You just get the water boiling take the heat it off and then throw the powder in or do you keep the water on the heat the whole time?

[Azrael]

Yes, those are the Ethex, and those are my favorite in terms of ease of shooting. I got so good at it that it didn't take me long at all to get 'em, prep 'em, and then shoot 'em. I have never crisped those, though. I just heated my water up in the spoon, poured in the crushed up powder, added a little more water, and then reheated just a little bit. When I threw the cotton in, it would puff up really quick so that's a good sign. Then I pulled back the plunger and the liquid was like water, no gel consistency or anything. But, all good things must come to an end and I am again in the engineer's chair trying to find the easiest and fastest way to shoot these Watsons. I just got through trying to crisp another two and it takes a little minute to get them to where they start to "melt" and then they fall apart and start to carmelize. I don't want to burn them, so I get it to where most of them are tan-brown and stop heating. I tried crushing that crisped pill up further, but I don't think it really did a lot of good. Then I heated my water, threw in the crisped, crushed pill and it STILL is hard to draw up, but easier than it was before. Not near as easy as the Ethex, but it gets the job done after a BUNCH of work. Also, with the Ethex the only residue that is left is a powder-like consistency and there's very little of it. With these Watsons, you can't help but leave a little residue because you can't draw it all up.

I hope like hell that the pharmacy will go back to Ethex SOON!

See What you call ethex I have always called Endo, and another person I know has always called them Watsons. It's all just referring to blue 100mg pills without a coating (can be found on the endo website) and say E658 on them.

Also I just tried your method and it worked great, much loss loss of water due to the fact none of it evaporates, I put in the normal amount of water about got 1.5ccs back so I know there is a better yield with your method. thank you!

[moviebuff927]

See What you call ethex I have always called Endo, and another person I know has always called them Watsons. It's all just referring to blue 100mg pills without a coating (can be found on the endo website) and say E658 on them.

Also I just tried your method and it worked great, much loss loss of water due to the fact none of it evaporates, I put in the normal amount of water about got 1.5ccs back so I know there is a better yield with your method. thank you!

You're very welcome...I love to hear that my method is making people happy. If you want the original thread, here it is:

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=4389

[Azrael]

Oh also the pills I have are the same as the pill in my avatar. There is a picture of them on the Endo pharmaceuticals generic website. The only thing that makes me think you have different pills is the fact that the ones I have do not have any coating at all, so obviously there is not coating to remove for IV prep. The ones I have also contain hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, which you said may not work with this method. I will check the ethex website though to see if they are identical to the Endo which may be a possibility. Even if they are different your method seems to work even better than crisping (how I have been doing it for a long time) because it doesn't require special distribution of the saline to dissolve the daker blue cooked parts, also there seems to be a lot less blue dye/coloration of the solution in the syringe using your method. When I crisp these and have a potent shot I always have a very blue solution, where as this is not the case with your method. thanks again.

[moviebuff927]

Oh also the pills I have are the same as the pill in my avatar. There is a picture of them on the Endo pharmaceuticals generic website. The only thing that makes me think you have different pills is the fact that the ones I have do not have any coating at all, so obviously there is not coating to remove for IV prep. The ones I have also contain hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, which you said may not work with this method. I will check the ethex website though to see if they are identical to the Endo which may be a possibility. Even if they are different your method seems to work even better than crisping (how I have been doing it for a long time) because it doesn't require special distribution of the saline to dissolve the daker blue cooked parts, also there seems to be a lot less blue dye/coloration of the solution in the syringe using your method. When I crisp these and have a potent shot I always have a very blue solution, where as this is not the case with your method. thanks again.

When you said you had an "E" on yours, I thought you had the Ethex cursive E. It's not like a normal capital E. It has cursive on the ends so yours is Endo and mine is Ethex. I've had the Endos before and you're right, they don't have a coating. I had the light blue 15mg when I did have Endos but I never tried to shoot those, I just ate 'em. So you're saying they're like the Watsons because they won't break down when you try my way of heating up the water and then adding the powder? That's good to know...

[Azrael]

No I m saying they are like the watsons because they contain hydroxypropyl methylcellulose and do not contain the microcrystaline cellulose which I believe is in most formulations of mscontin. They are unlike the watsons in that they seems to work fine using your way of heating up the water and then adding the water (this is how I always did up generic D's as well)