Brain Damage?

[Paregoric Kid]

I was wondering if brain damage occurs to opioid users who overdose or take doses that are near overdose and they stop breathing. have there been any cases of people getting permenant brain damage from lack of oxygen? just curious, was thinking about that a lot of people overdose but I've never personally heard or read of someone getting brain damage.

[candy]

Brain damage can occurr from lack of oxygen to the brain. Cerebral hypoxia, which is lack of oxygen to the brain is common in cardiac/respiratory arrest as with overdose.
The amount of brain damage is going to depend on how long the brain was deprived of oxygen.
The more time the brain is without oxygen, the more damage. Brain cells will start to die after about 5 minutes without oxygen.
If someone is only without oxygen for a short period of time, they may not suffer any permanent damage and any temporary damage may be unnoticed.

Best thing to do if someone overdoses is to start CPR right away. This will help to keep oxygen going to the brain.

[Peripat]

I've read of people being so brain damaged from overdose that they can no longer move. Okay, that was someone who wasn't found for quite some time - I guess that's one more reason not to use alone - personally, I'd rather die than end up braindamaged from overdose.

[candy]

Most often, overdose is from combination of drugs. Say, heroin and benzo's. Both cause respiratory depression.
This is seen more often in chronic users. A new batch of dope, say from someone new or with first time use.
I agree, if your new to heroin and it's your first time or your inexperienced, being alone is not a good idea.
I think what is most important to know is that an overdose does not always happen immediately. Someone may be breathing and have a heart beat and still be overdosing. Respiratory depression may be gradual, especially when mixing drugs.
If someone is non-responsive, but breathing and has a pulse, get them some help.
Please avoid the home remedies, ie; saline push or cocaine, methamphetamines. You can cause more problems this way.

The longer someone is without oxygen, the more damage there will be.
Good to know CPR!

[duke_nemmerle]

I also agree that experimenting alone isn't always the greatest idea.

That said, Candy's dead on about od being brought on typically by a combination of drugs. It seems like every single report I've read about someone OD'ing on an opiate involved a benzo as well.

When I was -first- starting on opiates, we were snorting Oxy's, getting shitfaced drunk, and doing Xanax at the same time. Probably dodged a bullet, but who knows.

I WISH the war on drugs could be prosecuted in a manner that critical information like this could be emphasized without the establishment feeling like they're conceding some part of the 'blanket prohibitionist' information campaign. This little tweak in the information policy could save many lives IMHO

[candy]

Duke, you brought up a good point! But, unfortunately we live in a society that focuses on complete abstinence as the treatment to a major problem. While that may be their ultimate goal, there needs to be more focus on Harm Reduction, than just abstinence.
We just don't live in realistic times. Do I want my kid out there getting high? Well, more than likely no! But the reality is he may try drugs and if he does, I would rather that he uses some judgement. Doesn't me I advocate for my kid to use, but rather use some common sense if he makes that choice.
It is an area that our Government and the powers that be just won't touch.

[Mokelly]

have there been any cases of people getting permenant brain damage from lack of oxygen?

LOL

[Paregoric Kid]

I meant from opiate overdose, that was a typo.

[poppy]

Duke, you brought up a good point! But, unfortunately we live in a society that focuses on complete abstinence as the treatment to a major problem. While that may be their ultimate goal, there needs to be more focus on Harm Reduction, than just abstinence.
We just don't live in realistic times. Do I want my kid out there getting high? Well, more than likely no! But the reality is he may try drugs and if he does, I would rather that he uses some judgement. Doesn't me I advocate for my kid to use, but rather use some common sense if he makes that choice.
It is an area that our Government and the powers that be just won't touch.
It would seem things are different in uk (i seem to say this a lot) but iin my local drug centre is a mine of leafleted information from what to do if someone od's to how to crank in your groin. On the same vein of thought as the braindamage from od. Last year a friend of ours had some sort of epilectic fit (probably the wrong technical term) at our house about an hour after a dig, why would that have happened? he is a long term user, with hep c (don't know if thats relevant) he's very underweight and drinks way too much superstrength lager. Anyway he came out if it after about five mins, so we cancelled the ambulance as he said he was ok. We stayed with him and he seemed very disorientated for quite a while, as in he knew who we were, but thought we were in someone elses flat. He also said he felt like he'd done ten rounds with mike tyson. He wasn't aware that it had happened before but said it could have done when he'd been alone as he had woken feeling disorientated before. Any ideas.

[devilsdrug]

years ago when a lot of illicit fentanyl was being sold as h on the streets some people had seizures as like in parkinsons they definitly were dis oriented and didnt know what happened and come to think of it both people i saw it happen to were heavy heavy drinkers. i think fentanyl was used at one time in some parkinsons research.

[JimmyJoe]

It is possible to get brain damage from lack of oxygen in case of extreme overdose but opiates have been shown to be one of the safest drugs with regard to brain damage. In fact, scientists that have studied the issue have found that pure opiates cause no brain damage at all which is not the case with drugs like alcohol and methamphetamines. Both alcohol and methamphetamine have been shown to cause brain damage and, in the case of alcohol it can be quite extensive. Even in moderate amounts alcohol causes ruptures in the capillaries of the brain leading to oxygen starvation, cell death and eventual brain damage. There is a New Zealand study which shows as little as three drinks a day over an extended period leads to mild brain damage.

Opiates, in themselves do not cause brain damage, though brain damage has occurred through impurities in the cuts, largely the result of the drug war which makes drug use as risky as possible. There have been cases of Parkinsons symptoms in people that have taken Demerol, a synthetic opiate and fentanyl another synthetic opiate. This is likely due to the impurities in the drug being manufactured in clandestine labs. There have been cases of brain damage resulting from chasing the dragon, mainly the powder form found in the northeastern part of the U.S. and Canada which is thought to result from impurities though the verdict is still out. Opiates tend to be safer than other drugs because unlike many drugs like alcohol, they only affect a very small portion of the brain. The opioid receptors are mainly located in a small portion of the brain called the hypothalamus that controls sensations of pain and pleasure. This is the primary area that is affected by opiates. In terms of brain damage, opiates and marijuana are probably the safest drugs in existence. The list of controlled substances in the United States in no way reflects the scientific properties of the substances that are prohibited and many of the ones that are legal such as alcohol and tobacco are actually much more harmful than the so-called hard drugs. Opiates probably have a bad rap in the U.S. because they are addictive and it is seen as a sign of weakness in our society to be addicted to something. Also, it has to do with culture. After all, alcohol is mentioned and used by people in the Bible so it must be okay. There is no scientific basis whatsoever for the drug laws as they exist in the United States. If the laws were based on which drugs cause irreparable brain damage then alcohol would be at the top of the list of controlled substances since it cause more brain damage than all of the others and directly affects more of the brain.

[pointed]

That said, Candy's dead on about od being brought on typically by a combination of drugs. It seems like every single report I've read about someone OD'ing on an opiate involved a benzo as well.

When I was -first- starting on opiates, we were snorting Oxy's, getting shitfaced drunk, and doing Xanax at the same time. Probably dodged a bullet, but who knows.

I WISH the war on drugs could be prosecuted in a manner that critical information like this could be emphasized without the establishment feeling like they're conceding some part of the 'blanket prohibitionist' information campaign. This little tweak in the information policy could save many lives IMHO

I wholeheartedly agree. I ran into trouble of a related sort with methadone and benzo (Klonipin) withdrawal. I coldkicked both a once (one of the more foolish things that I've ever done), and it nearly killed me. Somehow, I just gave no thought to the dangers of benzo withdrawal (though I was aware of them), being preoccupied with the 'done sickness. To make a long and rather unpleasant story short; I woke up flat on my back in ICU 2 days later. I had suffered 2 grand mal seizures - and I have no recollection of this, whatsoever. It was pretty nasty; I'm still dealing with the consequences. My memory is lousy these days; I have the retention of a gnat. Since I used to have the next best thing to eidetic memory, I find this frustrating in the extreme. My neurologist cleared me and said that I would suffer no long term effects, but it's improving so slowly! Education is incredibly important. Too many people have made stupid decisions through being uninformed. If they want to do it after they are aware of the risks, on their heads be it. Why can't our oh-so-competent government get it through what I laughingly refer to as their brains that harm reduction is THE most important thing??? Australia has the right idea. Think Aussie! LOL

Best,

Kate

[candy]

True, Opiates by themselves are relatively safe. They are metabolized by liver easily and don't cause changes in the brain that are not reversible. It has been shown that those who abuse opiates lack the ability to produce endorphins, especially after long term use. While this is something that returns after being "clean" most often their are complaints of depression and lack of motivation, which comes from the lack of endorphins.

The original post asked if brain damage occurred with an overdose where there was a lack of oxygen to the brain.
While this depends of the amount of time someone is without oxygen, it can occurr. This is why it is important to get help as quickly as possible if someone stops breathing or you suspect an OD.
It is important to remember that an overdose doesn't always happen right away after ingestion. Someone may still be breathing, but they are unresponsive. In this case, it is important to get help right away. Don't let them just sleep it off. An overdose can occurr even an hour later after ingestion and in the case of aspiration, they can vomit and choke.
If someone is non-responsive, but still breathing, put them in the "recovery position." Lie them on their right side, to prevent them from aspirating. This also takes a load off the heart.

While many of us use alone, there are still some safeguards we can take to get help if we need it. Don't lock yourself in a room alone. Yeah, you may want your privacy, with no one walking in, but you will get help much faster if the door is unlocked. If your tolerance is low or your new to using, try a small shot first, especially if your using someone new to buy from.

And, if you are using with others and someone stops breathing or is unresponsive, don't let them sleep it off and don't leave. No one wants to get in trouble, but leaving your friend alone(or even someone you don't know well) can be a bad thing.
If you just cannot stay around, call 911 before you leave and let them know exactly where the person is. If your outside, leave them in a well lit area, where they can be easily seen. Give as much information as you can. While you may have good intentions, it really sucks for those EMT's when they have to go looking around for that unconscious victim.
And, if your going to drop your friend off at the ER, don't roll them from the car. They may roll away from the entrance and be found later. This has happened more often than you would believe. Nothing worse than finding a dead body in the bushes near the ER entrance.
It's true folks!
If you can, learn CPR. If a class in CPR is out of the question...Go online or get a book from the library and learn the basics. Getting oxygen to the brain through compressions and rescue breathing is a life-saver and that is what CPR does, gets oxygen to the brain, which helps to prevent brain damage.

The best thing would be to offer Narcan to those who use opiates. It would save so many lives. Maybe one day we will see this, but until then, be safe.