Unscheduled Pentazocine Analogues?

[Paregoric Kid]

Anyone have any info or source info for Cyclazocine and Ketazocine? they are mixed agonist-antagonists, but still interesting and maybe useful for some purposes. I hear ketazocine is a derivative of cyclazocine and that they use it in opioid receptor research, so I have a feeling this might be available.

[jacky]

what I have read about cyclazocine is that it might have "hallucinogenic" effect as well as moderate opioid.
and also that some toxicity can develope with use, similiar I think to merepidine.

interesting stuff for sure.
I would want a sample of the following.

cyclazocine
pentazocine
gnoscapine (opium alkaloid, non scheduled, possible dxm like effects, 5grams for 100$ at a few chemical supply companies)

and wasnt there another dxm like product used in other countries as an anti-tussive that has dxm like effects? I think we were talking about that one just recently.

all the info that I have seen about cyclazocine is from canadian sources...where this compound is not controlled, due to its low risk of abuse.

keep cracking kid!

[Hammilton]

i'd like to give noscapine a shot too but I haven't found any. I think that when DXM gets scheduled (if that ever happens, maybe it'll stay legal forever and salvia and kratom will too!)

As far as Pentazocine analogues- I dunno if I'd wanna fuck with them much. Pentazocine was good (2nd hand, I guess) because it was primarily a mu-agonist, but I'm pretty sure that Cyclazocine is barely a mu-agonist at all, and primarily a kappa-antagonist

[Paregoric Kid]

don't count on dxm becoming scheduled anytime soon. it's been OTC since 1958 and abused just as long, dxm abuse is not a new phenomenon. Patti Smith mentions an old dxm brand called romilar in her song Piss Factory, and that was in the 70s.
I would really like to try these, sounds like a possible alternative to buprenorphine depending how strong the NMDA antagonism is. of course pentazocine is an NMDA antagonist too. I've always wanted to try pentazocine. NMDA antagonism and opioids go hand in hand. look at racemethorphan, methadone, ketobemidone, etc., etc., etc. even ketamine has activity at the mu receptor.

[jacky]

both cyclazocine and noscapine/narcotine are reported to have some possible halluc/psychedelic effects.

it looks like both might be sigma "opioid" receptor agonists, sigma agonists are purported to possible NOT be actual opioid receptors, I think sigma receptor agonist activity is associated with PCP and possibly ketamine as well.

if noscapine has sigma agonist effect, and can cause some psychoactive effect, it may be interesting to investigate how small amounts of that alkaloid, like say, amounts that might be consumed naturally in the act of using opium or raw pod material would effect a person alone.

well, I did some looking around at the general noscapine levels in opium/raw pod material....apparently noscapine is one of the most prominant alkaloids in this plant, in the top 5, and in one report pdf file, apparently can range in ratio from 1-10%.
that is a wide range of potency, considering noscapine.
now I know that some people may be researching this privately, but I have not seen a comprehensive review of noscapines psychoactive effect if any, and what that might contribute to the opium/raw pod product experience.

basically this is going to eat at me, till I can get my hands on some noscapine that is not already tied up with all the other illicit/prescription/precursor alkaloids in opium, and then do some careful observations on dosage effect.
consider that noscapine could be one of the reasons that pure morphine doesnt seem to hold a hat to me compared to even low potency pod/straw/opium materials. the noscapine involvement, possibly with the sigma receptor could be beneficial to the addict perhaps.

[Paregoric Kid]

noscapine looks very interesting. I've read that noscapine has been found in a lot of samples of heroin. http://www.noscapine.org/

the kappa, delta, sigma, and NMDA receptors are very interesting. look at salvia, kratom, and all of the synthetic drugs that intereact at these places. I read this on wikipedia, "the exact role of sigma receptors is difficult to establish as many sigma agonists also bind to other targets such as the kappa opioid receptor and the NMDA receptor."

[Zoops]

yeah, noscapine is a natural opium alkaloid. From reading the on-line publication "DEA Microgram" I'm sure you guys know about they usually will tell what drugs were found in samples of suspected opium when they test them to confirm narcotics possession cases. They usually say, of course, morphine is in the sample, but also they look for small amounts of codeine, noscapine, papaverine and narcotine in the stuff too and the presence of all of those compounds together confirms that it is opium and not just some resin with morphine in it.

There is a resource maintained by NIH called "ChemID Plus." It is a really good tool for a starting point researching new drug chemicals you learn of. Mol. structure, scheduling (controlled substance) info and a brief description of the effect of the drug are provided. You will usually find a literature citation too.

This is a link for the record on cyclazocine (it's a damn long internet address, just click on it I think it should work here):

http://chem.sis.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/ProxyServlet?objectHandle=DBMaint&actionHandle=default&nextPage=jsp/chemidheavy/ResultScreen.jsp&ROW_NUM=0&TXTSUPERLISTID=003572803

The psychedelic effect of some of the synthetic opioids is fascinating indeed. Ketamine and phencyclidine have sigma opioid agonist activity, I heard. Am I correct in remembering this?

And salvinorin, the psychoactive (the main one, at least) compound in salvia is a really strong delta or kappa agonist (can't remember which one it is, it's one or the other).

Butorphanol, a related compound dextromethorphan (i.e., DXM), is a mixed agonist/antagonist sold under the brand "Stadol" and generic versions in the U.S. This shit is a partial mu agonist, but a full-on kappa agonist and delta agonist (I think it's both). It is a potent analgesic in doses around 1-2mg IV. There is a ceiling for analgesic effect, like there is with buprenorphine and really any agonist antagonist opioid. Above the analgesic ceiling, though, the hallucinogenic effects take over, like DXM, except it's a antitussive at lower doses and hallucinogenic at higher doses. Now, I think DXM-sized doses of butorphanol would kill you (not by opioid OD effects, i.e., respiratory depression and bradycardia) by causing cardiac arrythmia (makes the heart go faster and increases BP in overdoses, also increases intracranial pressure).

One time I injected intravenously 10mg of butorphanol from a stadol nasal spray bottle. This tiny bottle has only 3ml of 10mg/ml solution in it. One spray in one nostril is the standard dose. This would deliver a lot less than 1ml (10mg in this case), probably only like 0.1 or 0.2mg of butorphanol. Well, I experienced the most unpleasant drug effects ever, worse than the time when I took a little piece of a Revia (naltrexone) tablet - probably only 5mg of the stuff - with the intention of partially reversing the effects of a large (too much) dose of hydrocodone I had taken. I was sick vomiting from the hydrocodone so I thought a tiny bit of Revia would only partially block it. I totally blocked it within like 20 minutes and I was very unhappy. Almost had a seizer, or I guess I did have a mild seizure.

O.K., so 10mg IV of butorphanol was worse. And I was at work. Felt like Frankenstein's monster. Could only go "unnnnnggg" or "hmmmmm." couldn't talk. Couldn't think straight and barely could stand because my knees were shaking. Wore off in about 2 hours enough so I could think and talk. rough.

[mrklean]

^^^that sounds really terrible

[Hammilton]

Noscapine is really fucking interesting.

you've got two 3,4-position methylenedioxy groups in the same molecule. Now, obviously they'd have to be seperated to hope to have the effects that group makes us expect, and that might be easy enough.

[WarmCyanide]

NEYOOOOOOWWW (sound of chemistry talk flying over my head)

carry on.

[Hammilton]

If only there was a single recepter responsible for dissociation. It's such a huge combination of effects- Sigma, NMDA and (shit, I forget the last one...)

[Hammilton]

update: don't fuck with cyclazocine. It makes salvia feel like childs play.