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View Full Version : heroin cut with fentanyl??



kidding
06-03-2007, 02:36 AM
"Hundreds die from overdoses of heroin cut with fentanyl, but the official response is almost nonexistent -- except for increased law enforcement pressure. With injection drug users falling over dead from Boston to Baltimore, Philadelphia to Detroit and Chicago, an estimated 700 people have been killed by the deadly cocktail. We reported on it in June (http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/440/fentanylods.shtml), but the wave of deaths continues to the present. Just last week (http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/466/experts_call_for_urgent_action_as_fentanyl_related _overdose_toll_rises), more than 120 medical experts, public health departments, and drug user advocates sent a letter to Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt urging him to take aggressive action. Ho-hum, who cares about dead junkies? Not the federal government, at least so far."


The quote is old, from 2006, but I was wondering-- why would anyone cut H with fent? Wouldn't that cost more? And killing your customers doesn't seem like a good business plan....

drugsaregood
06-03-2007, 02:41 AM
I think it might have to do with the cost of shitty dope + a bit of fent evens out. Atleast I would guess...


There's always plenty of customers. Plenty of kids go to school still.

JP. B.S. Propaganda. :X

Z-man
06-03-2007, 10:48 AM
They are not talking about pharmaceutical grade fentanyl, the stuff you see on the streets is usually made by underground chemists. Since that type of fentanyl is practically free, the cost is not an issue. I should add that certain fentanyl analogs are absolutely as good or better than heroin from a junky's standpoint - the fentanyl that was sold in NYC back in the 80s was da bomb! The real problem with fent is that some forms are so strong and potent that cutting to the correct dosage becomes a serious problem. Mistakes get made, and that's when people die.

Junkhead
06-03-2007, 01:43 PM
Dude wanted to blast in a 25 mcg fent patch and SWIM told him he aint doin it in SWIM's house. So He told him he could mix up the shot in his living room and take it with him. Dude was like "I can't do it in my car, I dont have a light in my car" So SWIM gave him a lantern to take out to the car with him. Also, dude wasnt even sure how he should do it, and he was already so fucked up it took him about 20 minutes to mix the fent with water. Well once he got it mixed up, the spoon tilted over and spilled on the floor. Loosing your dope on the floor is a shitty thing, but I have to admit, it might have been best that it got spilled. I don't know if shooting fent is as dangerous as people make it out to be, but I wouldn't chance it.

And why dealers cut it with Fent - They want their customers to get good shit from them, they arent trying to kill them. And as for the cost, if word gets around that a fent/H dealer has strong H, sales go up and cost of the fent is worth it. Thats my opinion.

I dont know what amount of fent is safe to shoot. SWIM did 3 100mcg patches in a day and he was falling asleep standing up towards the end of the day. Took a 15 minute nap standing in front of his kitchen sink. Then picked up the dish sponge and tried to take a bite off of it cause thought it was a piece of bread.

Woowoo
06-03-2007, 01:57 PM
I believe that I got my hands on a bag of fent or fent+heroin about 5 years ago. I fell out instantly after shooting a single bag. I swear there must have been enough opiates in that one bag for 5 good shots. The next thing I knew paramedics were storming my apartment (after breaking the window to get in), and were shoving that tongue-clamp thing in my mouth. It was a genuine miracle that I survived that.

Why does this happen, that one bag is the "lucky bag" that would put a horse down? Well imagine some moron mixing up bags by putting cut & dope in a big bowl and chopping it around with a fork. I've seen that exact scene, and this was the "mister big" who was responsible for the health and well-being of scores of junkies. A fucking FORK!! Not exactly scientific procedure--I use more care when making damn omelets. So in the end, some bags are almost 100% cut and a few bags have enough dope to kill an elephant. Due to their sloppy procedures, people die, plain and simple.

This whole scenario is more reason why legalization is the answer--the dangers of drug use really stem mostly from drug laws more than the drugs themselves.

trainwrecker
06-03-2007, 04:55 PM
Most of the dope I used to get back in Lansing/Detroit maybe 3-4 years ago was mostly fent. All rush. No legs.

phrozen
06-04-2007, 04:11 PM
Greed. That's the only reason they're cutting dope with fentanyl.

It's not as if the heroin in the affected areas was weak... To the contrary, the affected areas were all long term established markets with some of the best dope available. I'm talking about Chicago, Philly, NJ/NYC, etc.

The people that mentioned that it was illicit fentanyl are right. Apparently the source of the last outbreak was Mexico. Some chemist got the bright idea to manufacture a fent analogue and sell it as a fentanyl substitute/adulterant. It obviously had devastating effects throughout the heroin using community. At least the suspected lab/s were shut down and the outbreak died down. But, I'm sure there's a batch or two out there just waiting to get put out again, as is typically the case.

Also, I noticed that some people mentioned above that the fentdope is as good if not better than the regular dope out put out in those areas. That's far from it. Most experienced heroin users will choose heroin over fent. Sure it has a nice rush, but the high is shit. It won't hold you even half as long as good dope does. Not to mention that you risk oding each time you use illicit fentanyl. You'd have to be crazy to trust something that's so potent and mixed by novices who couldn't care less if someone ods on their product. As someone(most know who) famously said "fentanyl is heorin without a soul."

Z-man
06-04-2007, 05:33 PM
Also, I noticed that some people mentioned above that the fentdope is as good if not better than the regular dope out put out in those areas. That's far from it. Most experienced heroin users will choose heroin over fent. Sure it has a nice rush, but the high is shit. It won't hold you even half as long as good dope does. Not to mention that you risk oding each time you use illicit fentanyl. You'd have to be crazy to trust something that's so potent and mixed by novices who couldn't care less if someone ods on their product. As someone(most know who) famously said "fentanyl is heorin without a soul."

Let me clarify. There are thousands of chemical analogs of the drug fentanyl. *Some* of them are definitely as good or better than pure H, but only some. The stuff that was called "p-dope" back in the late 80s and was all over NYC was hands-down the most euphoric and desirable dope I've ever had. It lasted just as long if not longer than heroin - hell, some of it lasted MUCH longer than regular H, and most of it was just plain better all around. I used to specifically seek it out, I was always disappointed if I got bags with brown powder because I knew that was usually "just" heroin, without the synthetic - not good enough for me!

But that was long ago. I can't speak for the fentanyl that's going around now, but from the descriptions I've read I would guess it's closer to plain pharm-grade fentanyl than whatever it was we used to get. I've done pure pharmaceutical fentanyl and I agree that it is less desirable and much shorter acting than good heroin. It is NOT like the stuff we used to buy on the street, and comparing the two is like comparing oranges and apples. Obviously we are talking about completely different substances, even though they are probably all variations on the same fentanyl molecule.

nick
06-04-2007, 05:44 PM
"Hundreds die from overdoses of heroin cut with fentanyl, but the official response is almost nonexistent -- except for increased law enforcement pressure. With injection drug users falling over dead from Boston to Baltimore, Philadelphia to Detroit and Chicago, an estimated 700 people have been killed by the deadly cocktail. We reported on it in June (http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/440/fentanylods.shtml), but the wave of deaths continues to the present. Just last week (http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/466/experts_call_for_urgent_action_as_fentanyl_related _overdose_toll_rises), more than 120 medical experts, public health departments, and drug user advocates sent a letter to Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt urging him to take aggressive action. Ho-hum, who cares about dead junkies? Not the federal government, at least so far."


The quote is old, from 2006, but I was wondering-- why would anyone cut H with fent? Wouldn't that cost more? And killing your customers doesn't seem like a good business plan....

It's obviously good business.



Many addicts go looking for it.


If it kills.......it must be a good hit.

phrozen
06-04-2007, 06:18 PM
Out of curiosity, which exact analogue was "p-dope"?

Also, regardless if it was better than heroin or not, fentanyl and its analogues are all mesasured in mcg. Taking illicit fentanyl, which ever analogue, is like playing russian roulette. It doesn't belong on the street imo.

nick
06-04-2007, 06:20 PM
Out of curiosity, which exact analogue was "p-dope"?

Also, regardless if it was better than heroin or not, fentanyl and its analogues are all mesasured in mcg. Taking illicit fentanyl, which ever analogue, is like playing russian roulette. It doesn't belong on the street imo.

Oh bro,NOTHING belongs on the street....we should all be buying otc from pharmacies.


You know this.

phrozen
06-04-2007, 07:20 PM
Nick: True, but we live in a world that's far from ideal. I guess I was talking from a harm reduction pov.

z-man: Ok, after some research I'm assuming the "p-dope" you're referring to is amf. But, p-dope can refer to really pure dope or fent analogues. AMF, is arguably more euphoric than dope and lasts about as long. But, I'm gonna drop the whole what's better discussion. It's all a personal preference really...

nick
06-04-2007, 07:25 PM
Nick: True, but we live in a world that's far from ideal. I guess I was talking from a harm reduction pov.

z-man: Ok, after some research I'm assuming the "p-dope" you're referring to is amf. But, p-dope can refer to really pure dope or fent analogues. AMF, is arguably more euphoric than dope and lasts about as long. But, I'm gonna drop the whole what's better discussion. It's all a personal preference really...

Yeah bro,I noticed the world's pretty fucked uo and I'm thinking of moving to micronesia......you want me to save you a hammock?

phrozen
06-04-2007, 08:09 PM
Haha, only if they have high quality SEA #4 there...

Z-man
06-05-2007, 09:36 AM
Out of curiosity, which exact analogue was "p-dope"?


That's kind of an interesting story, actually. Although eventually it was mostly AMF (alpha methyl fentanyl), when the first synthetics started to hit the street it was as if somebody was trying out all the different analogs to see what would sell best. At the very beginning I remember there was some stuff that would just about knock you out like a sleeping pill - but it lasted several days! It was not very euphoric, more of a downer really, but hard-core junkies could do a single bag and not need anything else for a couple of days! Scared the hell out of the old timers on the street.

But very soon the product, whatever it was, began to more resemble heroin, and people on the street loved it. As I said before, it was more euphoric than H and just as long lasting. They loved it, that is, until they tried to quit! You began to hear another name for P-dope: they called it "Can't Quit", because even long term addicts with multiple cold turkey H detoxes under their belt simply couldn't take the WD from this new dope. It was a whole different ball game trying to get off this stuff.

I think it likely that towards the end most of the P-dope was indeed AMF. By that time the stuff was making headlines both for the fatalities it caused and because it was so hard to kick - not to mention the fact that many of the standard UA tests simply did not recognize it at all! I remember it took the local methadone clinic years before they could detect P-dope, it was like having a free pass to use. Eventually they ran some very detailed analysis and determined they were dealing mostly with AMF, and they adjusted their UA tests accordingly.

A big rash of fatalities from the infamous Tango and Cash bags in the Bronx spelled the beginning of the end of the P-dope era. And this was probably a good thing, although to this day I still miss it sometimes. The truth was that the stuff was extremely dangerous, and you never knew when you were going to get that one bag that hadn't been cut correctly.

phrozen
06-05-2007, 05:44 PM
Right, from your description of more euphoria and just as long, it was most likely amf. But, I thought that the Tango and Cash bags were 3mf. And, if I recall correctly, they were out for less than a day.

I find it quite interesting that the fent analogs don't pop up more often. They're quite easy to make and there's a shit load of money involved. But I'm sure that the traditional heroin market wouldn't tolerate a competitor, not to mention that most of the chemists involved haven't had the means to distribute it i.e.: Williamson, Hovey, and Marquardt to a degree.