Kratom Detox With Pods

[Zoop]

I am currently a user of kratom and have been for around 10 months, every day, except a few times when I inadvertently ran out and experienced some pretty uncomfortable WD's.

Recently, last Wednesay, I took the plunge and bought some crafting supplies and have been flower arranging for the last five days, and have not taken any kratom. Of course, I didn't experience any WD from kratom while doing the flower arrangements. The thing I am wondering is this: Since tha alkaloid mixture in kratom overall acts primarily as a delta agonist, and since it's been four days totally without kratom, I guess if you wanted to split hairs, you could say I'm detoxed off of kratom. Thing is I'm on flowers now.

But check this out - I haven't taken any real opiates for over five years and definitely haven't been flowercrafting long enough to have a physical habit from just five days. So, I wonder if I quit, will I get WD's?, because all the kratom is pretty much out of my system now. The longest time I went without kratom was four days back in April of this year, and the WD's was pretty much gone after four days. Since opium alkaloids and kratom alkaloids are slightly different in the breakdown of which opiate receptors they activate, I wonder if one could use a few day's worth of pods to get off of kratom.

I will see tomorrow morning. I would be very excited to get this primate off my back.

[Wildman]

While I've never been in your exact position, I think that you
would still need to taper to avoid a nasty WD. I know you've only
been crafting for a few days, but considering the length of the
kratom consumption, I'd wager that you would still want to taper
over a period of two weeks...

Consider making up a huge batch of tea that you can use over
the taper period (so you have a consistent, known strength of
tea). I don't know how many times a day you craft, but dilute
each day's consumption by a few %.

Keep doing that over the two weeks and I think you could
do this without losing your mind and moving closer to your goal.

Find yourself some kind buds, some benzos, but stay away from
alcohol. You don't need that in the mix. Also, stay physically
active - it will take your mind off of what you are trying to do
as well as make you feel just a bit better than you would if you
just stayed stationary (I'm a big fan of long walks for this).

I've tapered off of hydro several times using this method, and
have never really experienced bad WD. I can usually taper
off of a two week hydro binge in four days with minimal discomfort.

Since I also take an SSRI, I usually up my dosage of that by 25-50%
during the taper, which gives me a bit of a lift. I then stay at that
level for a couple of weeks and then drop back to my normal
amount.

Also, stay hydrated, eat well, take a multi-vitamin and really make
sure you are getting enough rest - rest is always key for me to
keep my head on straight.

Hope you can meet your goal..................

[Zoop]

Hey, thanks for your suggestions and comments. I agree that I don't need alcohol in the mix. I definitely won't be drinking any. The thing is, I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous! I haven't had a drink since July of 1998, and haven't taken any "real" drugs, until last week, when I started flowercrafting, since September of 2000. I guess what screwed me up was starting kratom. I figured since it was "herbal" it wouldn't fuck up my recovery. Boy was I wrong there. Overall, it hasn't been bad this year so far, just a few unpleasant times like I described in my post above...

The kratom is getting expensive, and it is becoming hard to hide it from my wife. I guess I'm lucky that I control the finances in the house (makes sense because I make pretty much all the money too). Anyway, the bills are all getting paid, but I am starting to feel a little guilty about spending all that money on something I definitely don't need. I mean I proved it by going without drugs for so long. I don't need to be on something 24/7, but that's just my natural inclination, I guess.

So, my solution to the expensive kratom habit? Buy some pods! How fucked up is that? They are cheaper, buzz for buzz, than kratom, though.

I will taper down by decreasing the number of times I do a flower arrangement per day. I had two today, three the day before that, and will go down to one tomorrow. It stays in your system for quite a long time, I have found. No WD's so far, but we'll see.

Oh, and I agree about the physical exercise thing too. I have been working out like 4 times a week (sometimes only 3 times) for the last five years, and it's been indespensible for my sanity and ability to stay of booze and pot and all that other shit.

Also, I take 100mg zoloft every day. Maybe I'll up that for a week or so. I DO notice a bit of a lift from it if I add an extra quarter tablet in the morning.

Take it easy.:cool:

[shaunclo]

Wildman has the idea, that was great advice. Since you have been on Kratom fro around 10 months, I doubt that 4 days is going to get you clean off of it. Tapering is the way to do it, and if you are really serious about it it works well. Good luck Zoop, we are all here for ya bud!!

[Zoop]

Yup, you all are right. I had a big cup of tea around 5 am this morning (I get up really early), and went to work. Around 11:00am I was comin' down, and actually could feel the first ever so slight twinges of WD. So, I got back on the kratom I had.

Ordered some more supplies, and will attempt a taper down when they come in. My experience with the tea has been that it lasts much much longer than kratom, so I think for me it would be ideal for a detox. I know the odds are not in my favor being able to self-taper, but I will try.

I will taper the frequency from four times a day, to three, over 10 to 14 days, and at the same time slightly decrease the dose, so that by the end of the time, I am taking two small doses per day.

Except the dude hasn't e-mailed me back yet and I ordered the stuff last Saturday, the 22nd.

I am going to message him tomorrow if I don't hear...

Thanks y'all.

[jacky]

working out is one of the best way to release natural endorphins........I read a study in which people who were "addicted" to working out were tested for their cross tolerance to morphine from the endorphin release they were rewarded with from intense daily work out sessions. they were cross tolerant to about 50 milligrams of morphine a day from the "runners high" that they achieved from whatever exercise they were involved with. missing a day of exercise was not a comfortable experience for some.

A similiar action happens with people who fast, or people who are addicted to purging...in the 24th hour or so of a fast the body should start releasing endorphins and opioid peptides so that the body has enough energy to keep searching for food, some researchers hypothesize that a reinforcing part of bulemia/anorexia may be this release of endogenous opiates into the system. I believe it is Jonathan Ott, in his book pharmacophilia that related these studies/hypothesis.

Some researchers suggest that opioid replacement therapy might be a good idea with some of the people who are either endangering their livelihood with excessive exercise, or as a part of therapy for treating bulemia/anorexia patients (european researchers !!).

I dont think Jonathan Ott is suggesting that endorphins are as addictive as morphine, just that they may have similiar reinforcing/motivational drive and reward effects similiar to morphine.

Zoop, even though you have switched your addiction I think part of getting over withdrawls is about when your body starts producing enough of these natural opioids to cover the discomfort, so even though you may have the kratom alkaloids out of your system, your body still needs to start catching up with its own hormonal regulations...weening off of opiates slowly may or may not allow for this to happen as well as cold turkey, I dont really know, what I do know is that weening can be a long haul, but far better than cold turkey. I remember how long it seemed to ween off of methadone, a month or two of dropping my dose very slowly, I didnt miss a day of work though!

good luck zoop!

[Zoop]

Well, apparently, hurricane Wilma has knocked out my vendor down in Florida. That's why I haven't heard from him yet.

Thanks all.

[duke_nemmerle]

working out is one of the best way to release natural endorphins........I read a study in which people who were "addicted" to working out were tested for their cross tolerance to morphine from the endorphin release they were rewarded with from intense daily work out sessions. they were cross tolerant to about 50 milligrams of morphine a day from the "runners high" that they achieved from whatever exercise they were involved with. missing a day of exercise was not a comfortable experience for some.

A similiar action happens with people who fast, or people who are addicted to purging...in the 24th hour or so of a fast the body should start releasing endorphins and opioid peptides so that the body has enough energy to keep searching for food, some researchers hypothesize that a reinforcing part of bulemia/anorexia may be this release of endogenous opiates into the system. I believe it is Jonathan Ott, in his book pharmacophilia that related these studies/hypothesis.

Some researchers suggest that opioid replacement therapy might be a good idea with some of the people who are either endangering their livelihood with excessive exercise, or as a part of therapy for treating bulemia/anorexia patients (european researchers !!).

I dont think Jonathan Ott is suggesting that endorphins are as addictive as morphine, just that they may have similiar reinforcing/motivational drive and reward effects similiar to morphine.

Zoop, even though you have switched your addiction I think part of getting over withdrawls is about when your body starts producing enough of these natural opioids to cover the discomfort, so even though you may have the kratom alkaloids out of your system, your body still needs to start catching up with its own hormonal regulations...weening off of opiates slowly may or may not allow for this to happen as well as cold turkey, I dont really know, what I do know is that weening can be a long haul, but far better than cold turkey. I remember how long it seemed to ween off of methadone, a month or two of dropping my dose very slowly, I didnt miss a day of work though!

good luck zoop!

That is so interesting, I believe I had read that somewhere, but that's just amazing.

As for zoop, I would -imagine- that tapering off of kratom might be the best thing for you to do. I've heard that tea can cause some unfun, protracted WD's. Of course, I can't advise expertly as I'm not an expert and dont know what works for you, but I'd have to imagine that a delta agonist would be the best thing to taper/maintain on as far as ease of WD

[Paregoric Kid]

wish I knew the half-life of kratoms alkaloids. you will get withdrawal because you substituted one opioid for another. like being addicted to morphine and then taking some vicodin when they start to wd, they will go back into withdrawal when the vicodin wears off. can the withdrawal really be that bad from kratom as to not just withstand it or sleep through it? or is really that uncomfortable? kratom has real opioid alkaloids in it and they act like real opioids because that's what they are. addiction to kratom is not rare in that it's rare that taking kratom several times daily for months will make you addicted, it's rare that someone would do kratom that much. 7-ohm is an mu agonist and I know that with the alkaloids that work on the delta receptor there is mu crossover. anyone that takes kratom several times daily for an extended perioid should know they run the risk of withdrawal.

[duke_nemmerle]

wish I knew the half-life of kratoms alkaloids. you will get withdrawal because you substituted one opioid for another. like being addicted to morphine and then taking some vicodin when they start to wd, they will go back into withdrawal when the vicodin wears off. can the withdrawal really be that bad from kratom as to not just withstand it or sleep through it? or is really that uncomfortable? kratom has real opioid alkaloids in it and they act like real opioids because that's what they are. addiction to kratom is not rare in that it's rare that taking kratom several times daily for months will make you addicted, it's rare that someone would do kratom that much. 7-ohm is an mu agonist and I know that with the alkaloids that work on the delta receptor there is mu crossover. anyone that takes kratom several times daily for an extended perioid should know they run the risk of withdrawal.

I wonder what the extent of the mu crossover is? I've taken about 150 grams of kratom in the past 2 weeks at first trying to get a buzz and I noticed some effects that felt consistent with mu agonism, but I've pretty well given up on kratom as a 'high producing' agent and will attempt only to enjoy its use as a maintenance supplement when I run out of other things

[Zoop]

Believe me, it's totally for real. WD from kratom is no joke. I knew at the outset that there would be some degree of habituation, but didn't expect it to be that bad. It is every bit as bad as WD's I had years ago from a combined (mostly hydro) opiate habit and sedative/hypnotic (mostly ambien) habit.

the reason I think pods might be useful is that they last much much longer than kratom. kratom is like 3 hours tops for a buzz; I start getting WD after about 10 hours. the pod tea I experimented with last week had me totally good, itching and generally mellow-feeling all day, 24 hours that is, on just two doses.

So, I will attempt to just take a morning and evening dose of PT, and over about 2 weeks, decrease the amount. I will no doubt experience some uncomfortable feelings as it goes down, but not near as bad as full-on WD from the 'krat.

This is getting ridiculous, and too expensive to maintain.

pray for me.

[hovadagod]

Detoxing with pods is a bad idea...I said it.

Pods are the source of the addiction. Poppy contains all of the "real opiates (opioids?)". Kratom aside. If you are addicted to Kratom, it will be easier to taper off the Kratom than to try and control a Poppy T habbit. That tea is so strong it can really get you in its grip.

Obviously this does not pertain to you if you're not trying to get clean but Kratom has to be easier to get off of than Opium (poppy t more or less). The T is so strong and lasts for so long. Anyone who has taken T in a high dose knows that it is as strong as anything else (other than Fentanyl and other crazy sythetics). It can realluy make you look like you're on H but the thing is that it doesn't ware off for 5 hours or more. BE VERY CAREFUL WITH T. It's not a weak opiate...its all of them in a glass!
1

[hovadagod]

sorry for this duplicate post. Learing how to delete it.

[jacky]

so many variables............it may be easier to taper off of pods as the alkaloids definitely effect a person for longer than the 4-6 hours I notice the kratom alkaloids holding me.

the withdrawl I experienced from a 30 gram kratom a day habit was shitty, not even 8 hours after my last dose of kratom I was in partial withdrawl, couldnt sleep, couldnt sit still. I was going to wait till 11 am to take my buprenorphine, for fear that I may take it too soon, but at 6 am I knew that I wasnt going to make it. I dosed 100 micrograms of buprenorphine every 15 mintures till I felt better.

its hard to say which material is more addictive, I know that one alkaloid in kratom is supposedly stronger than even morphine.

I have been back on kratom for less than a week, and already I notice that I need to wake up and dose in the middle of my sleep to get a full rest. I dont have to do this with poppy seeds or pods when habituated. I get some uncomfortable skin type complaints when maintaning on pods/tea though.

generally I consider that the opioids that last longest are easier to taper off of. I would rather taper off of morphine than hydro, rather taper off of methadone than morphine etc. Is this true of others? I dont know, what I do know is, is that preparing for withdrawl is the only way to go, and if you cant do that you should stay far far away from ANY opiate/opioid.

[jacky]

I am looking to create my own catuama extracts, this extract I took in conjunction with kratom one month. I was on seed tea and kratom, and decided to get off of the tea. I had read that this catuama extract is a good stimulant, and also tested cross tolerant to morphine. catuama may also effect serotonin and dopamine release/inhibition of excretion. sooooo.....

I cut my seed tea dose over a few weeks, and then started cutting my kratom dose as well, I found this very easy to do when using the catuama extract. I think I got my daily kratom dose down to something like 10 grams. but then I needed to start a new job, and work my old one at the same time for a few weeks, so to push through that time I started taking tramadol, kratom, and seed tea all together.

does catuama help? I think it does, now to find or create an acceptable extract of my own that doestn cost 19$ for 30 small pills. Catuama is a trademarked name, this extract is created in south america and is very popular, indigenous indians created this recipe and the name catuama is also their creation, so a person might want to call their own recipe something different if selling it.

[Zoop]

Thanks, Jacky. That's what my point was. Pods last a whole lot longer than the 'krat, so I think it's almost like going on methadone for H. That kratom, I fear, is not going to be around much longer.

There are also now some supply problems as it has gotten sooooo popular over the last year, and the prices are shooting up. Only the regular, commercial strength has not gone up, but it will, I think.

As for going into WD's when stwitching opiates, hasn't happened, I can switch back and forth with no prob. They are totally cross-tolerant - the only diff. is that kratom WD's kick start in about 8-10 hours, and pods take over 18 hours. I have gone 18 hours between doses of PT and have not noticed even the slightest beginning of WD feelings.

Well, the date of November 17th is quick approaching. That's when I go see the bupe doc. I think I'll switch back to kratom about a week before that so I can go on the bupe after waiting for only around 12-14 hours. Damn! that kratom is getting almost as bad as an H habit, moneywise!

[hovadagod]

12 hours worked for me. WD's began in 9.

[alowishus]

OK, everyone ready for english class, compare and contrast PT and Kratom please. :p

I've never had kratom and was wondering what the difference is.
Seems you need more of it as it doesn't last as long. Higer price.
What are the pro and cons in your words.
Any buzz?
Better buzz?

Why would someone want to switch?

Thanks, I may want to try it before I can't.:rolleyes:

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

I know this is an old thread but just was so confused why someone would use pods(a more addictive/stronger opiate) to come off kratom??

[SeVeN]

I know this is an old thread but just was so confused why someone would use pods(a more addictive/stronger opiate) to come off kratom??

This is an incredibly old thread. And yes what the fuck?!?! I stopped withdrawing from Kratom because I got real fucked up on pods. Really? You dont say.

[clinton]

a side note, i ran out of pods earlier this week and in its place went to my local herb shop and purchased fourteen grams of powdered kratom, i had never tried it and only knew of this drug from what ive read on here
it didnt do much,i was expecting something decent but only got slightly buzzed for about 10 minutes
maybe i prepared them wrong
?????????????????????????????

[Thebane]

They carry kratom at your local herb shop? I'd buy it on-line if you want to give it a shot, they know what people are using it for. It should be powdered for best results too, if it wasn't. I don't get much from kratom with a large habit, with a small one though I can catch a little buzz. Never the nodding kind but some energy and mood lift.

And as far as preparation, just swallow the powder anyway you can. I think parachuting is easiest, but toss and wash or suspending it in a liquid works if you can handle the taste and texture. Kratom is the only thing I would prefer to eat pods over.

[Ludakris]

a side note, i ran out of pods earlier this week and in its place went to my local herb shop and purchased fourteen grams of powdered kratom, i had never tried it and only knew of this drug from what ive read on here
it didnt do much,i was expecting something decent but only got slightly buzzed for about 10 minutes
maybe i prepared them wrong
?????????????????????????????


There is a huge consensus among Kratom users to NOT buy at your local shop. The product is by far sub-par and generally marketed in a way that draws a little more attention than is desirable...that aside, I have a friend that goes back and forth sometimes with pods and Kratom. What she says it that no amount of kratom, and not even the extremely high alkaloid containing extracts, will give her any kind of buzz until she's been clean off Pods for about a week. I used to get a real nice buzz off of it until I wrecked my back and was put on oxy...now I just use the Kratom to keep WD's away when I run out early.