avinza time release

[jacky]

I recently went on buprenorphine so I could take a break from kratom and tramadol, which I was building a tolerance to. I spent three weeks on around 4-7 milligrams of buprenorphine day. On the last three days of bup use I cut my dose down to 3 milligrams, taking only 2.5 milligrams on the last day. On the last night I was barely tired, though I had been up for around 20 hours, anxious perhaps about the next mornings dose of morphine sulfate.
I awoke at 8.30 am, slightly sweaty, and proceeded to crush all the contents of an avinza 120 milligram pill. I then cooked this up in 4 milliliters of water and sucked it up into an oral dosage syringe. The day before I had been shopping for various implements for pushing this drug into my rectum. I had been told that morphine sulfate and even morphine are not that bioavailable when taken orally. The best candidate for the job was a package of fleet glycerin disposable suppository bulbs that hold around 4 millitres of liquid per bulb, there is a depth shield around the bulb and about a 2/12 inch lubricated applicator tip, that to my dismay is not tapered. the applicator comes with a sheath/cap in place. I emptied out the glycerin and washed it once, replacing the contents with about 30 milligrams worth of M solution. without going into too much detail the bulb works ok, delivering a very small payload, but not all the solution can be pushed into the body cavity, and I found myself refilling the bulb via an infant ear cleaning bulb and reapplying this diluted solution two more times. the remaining morphine in the bulb couldnt have been more than 5 milligrams, which I diposed of.
15 minutes later i felt an alert, my mouth awash with saliva, and a heavy feeling in my arms and legs. I was half expecting to not feel anything, as my last dose of buprenorphine had only been some 14 hours ago. but there it was, slowly creeping up.
I then tried around 10 milligrams of this solution dripped into my nostril. BURNS worse than H, and instantly my sinus is inflamed and swollen on the left side that I dripped the solution in. It is still burning, but within 10 minutes it is obviously working. after a little while my sinus became saturated, and I finally had to blow my nose, which still didnt stop the burn. I really dont think I could tolerate snorting this solution day in and day out, I have snorted H on a daily basis, and the morphine sulfate hurts more and for longer.
Reading up on the avinza website, one reason for NOT IVing this formulation, beyond the obvious that a time release drug isnt meant to be iv'd is that the avinza pill contains talc. I remember hearing a few years ago why some medications with talc are bad to shoot. Apperantly on the west coast a large number of ritalin pills were diverted from approved use in the early 80's,some of the people who were chronically injecting this drug ended up in emergency rooms, and some died, from the effects of talc depositing in the lungs.
with approx 40 milligram of morphine sulfate running through my body I feel pretty damn good, despite the buprenorphine that most obviously is still in my system.

[duke_nemmerle]

That's an interesting study, I wish there were a topical analgesic as effective as cocaine for numbing the nose down before a snort of something harsh

[SomniGod]

I am playing around with a few avinza 120's as well. I tried 'browning' 1/3 of a pill last night without impressive results!!!! I am SO bummed The last time I 'browned' M, it hit me hard and fast.... this time, I wound up 'browning' another 1/3 - capsule....starting to feel good...but NOTHING compared to what I was expecting. I snorted the last 1/3 and could ALMOST start to feel a nod coming on! I then took 50mg's of diphenhydramine hcl, making me a lil sleepy.... what a drag!!! I had hoped that I would be able to get away with using 1/2 a pill/day....now I'm using this shit up TOO FAST! I just can't win! Next I will order pods again. Pills are runnin a bit expensive and not doin the job. So I guess it's good to have a method of getting opiated to go back to. Let me know what you think the best method of administration is with these 120's!


~S~

[ontario_opiophile]

I am playing around with a few avinza 120's as well. I tried 'browning' 1/3 of a pill last night without impressive results!!!! I am SO bummed The last time I 'browned' M, it hit me hard and fast.... this time, I wound up 'browning' another 1/3 - capsule....starting to feel good...but NOTHING compared to what I was expecting. I snorted the last 1/3 and could ALMOST start to feel a nod coming on! I then took 50mg's of diphenhydramine hcl, making me a lil sleepy.... what a drag!!! I had hoped that I would be able to get away with using 1/2 a pill/day....now I'm using this shit up TOO FAST! I just can't win! Next I will order pods again. Pills are runnin a bit expensive and not doin the job. So I guess it's good to have a method of getting opiated to go back to. Let me know what you think the best method of administration is with these 120's!


~S~
Maybe you were just too full of shit...... to experience any good effect. hahah I always wanted to say that.( i'm not trying to piss you off it was a joke) Anyways, haha what I mean is, I dunno I think that when your full of "shit" the pills dont really absorb well. I think it would be best to administor it rectally when your butt is empty of most of the crap. But thats just what I think. I have something wrong with my bowels that makes it shitty to use stuff rectally. I have celiac disease or crohns or something I need to go to the doctor. basically mucus stops the pill from sinking into the lining of the ass. Oh well this is disgusting. Anyways, yah. lol. I feel dirty.

[katomic]

Thanks for your honesty :vomit: :moon:

peace

[SomniGod]

good point....wound up doin em up nasally. Now I miss them..

nuff said.

~S~

[gnat]

When you guys talk a bout ingesting through the nasal cavity are you removing the time release somehow or just standard crushing? I've crushed mine but I just put it back in the capsule and take it because I refuse to put that long lasting shit anywhere else except my stomach.

[duke_nemmerle]

When you guys talk a bout ingesting through the nasal cavity are you removing the time release somehow or just standard crushing? I've crushed mine but I just put it back in the capsule and take it because I refuse to put that long lasting shit anywhere else except my stomach.

If I know my boy somni I'd say straight up the old tooter, snorting...no?

[SomniGod]

crush...snuff...rush....repeat.....


~S~

[gnat]

So you don't worry about the time release material in your nose? I was hoping there was some sort of wash to remove it. Does it not stay up there?

[SomniGod]

doesn't stay up there any more than snorting H....or xanax.... or any other pills.... most all have binders in them.... the time release ain't to worry bout if snorting....although....it would be nice to get it all in one load....AHHHHH!!!!


~S~

[gnat]

Cool... well I haven't mustered up the balls to do it yet. I crushed one up tonight and tossed it in my mouth until it basically went away but I couldn't bring myself to do it up the nose. I have bad sinuses already and it would effect me for days easily. I haven't had anything in my nose for an easy 8-10 years so obviously I'm a little apprehensive without my 18yr old steel balls.

[paesan]

Most time released formulations gel up when the pill is crushed and snoted/added to water to discourage misuse (it doesn't). Now I don't exactly know what they mix these pills with that causes them to turn into jelly (anyone please feel free to answer this...PK, Zoop, Nuke, I know one of yous knows) but I'm certain it was either designed by the devil, Televangelists, or the Scary Ass Burger King Mascot Guy (ya know that freak from the commercials...the one that gives me nightmares), or all three in some anti-fun conspiracy designed to destroy breakfast & early morning drug use (aka "Wake and Bake"). You can just wipe or chip off the time release on these types (tablets) and then crush those bitches the fuck up.

Now Avinzas are capsules filled with tiny white balls that you can easily crush. Luckily the Avinzas do not gel up in your nose either. However, snorting them feels much like how I would imagine snorting liquid hot shards of glass with teeth that are trying to chew their way into your brain thru your sinuses would feel. But at least they don't gel...

The Avinzas are (I believe) the latest time released formulation of Morphine Sulfate, therefore the technology used in manufacturing them is the latest and greatest pain in the ass. These capsules are part IR (instant release) and part SR/XR/ER or whatever the fuck you want to call time released. The reason for formulating the capsule this way is so the morphine repidly enters the bloodstream and reaches peak morphine plasma concentrations while the extended release portion maintains morphine concentrations for 24 hours. Botom line is eating them doesn't do nearly as much as any other method. But if you ate enough these may not be that bad. Just take the number of mgs that you'd take in an hour, say 120...then multiply that by 24 and there you go. So theoretically all you'd need to take is 2880mg of Avinza capsules and that should do the trick...simple..

On a side note I just railed about 8 30mg Morph IR's about 30 minutes ago...and as you may already know I'm completely out of my mind... I should never under any circumstances be taken seriously...and I should be considered dangerous and avoided at all times.

[gnat]

haha, well I only have 60's and i get off pretty well from them when I take them crushed. I guess I may try a rail but at a lower mg to just see how much of a difference it is. Would you say night and day?

[paesan]

The difference between swallowing a crushed pill and snorting??? Well the Avinza PDR information states that morphine has less than 40% oral bioavailability (I think it's more like 25%) so a 100mg dose would be less than 40mg taken IV or IM. When morphine is insufflated it bypasses the first pass liver metabolism allowing for increased absorbstion. I could be wrong but I believe it goes up to around 80% absorbstion when you snort it...so that 40mg when taken orally becomes 80mg when taken nasally, so basically it doubles in strength. With the IR (Instant Release) it feels to me like even more than that. 30mg Morphine IR's snorted feel stronger and last longer for me than 40mg OCs. It takes me about 200mg of OC (5 40mg pills either insufflated or crushed & eaten...for me there's not a big difference either way with OC) to feel a decent buzz...with the M IR it takes about 180mg (6 30mg pills) for an equal buzz, however the M lasts much much longer.

The onset of action is much faster as well when insufflated(i.e. it hits you faster and consequently harder)as opposed to orally which is allways nice.

Have you ever taken a tagament (cimetidine) or grapefruit juice before taking your Avinzas??? If not you definetely should as it will make a huge difference with morphines strength and duration. Both cimetidine and white grapefruit juice are Cytochrome P450 enzyme inhibitors. The P450 enzyme is the primary enzyme that metabolizes Morphine in your liver. By inhibiting that enzyme you're allowing for greater initial absorbstion and slowing if morphines overall metabolism thereby increasing the strength and duration of it's effects. Try taking 200-400mg of cimetidine with a tall glass of grapefruit juice about 30-60 minutes before taking your morphine orally...I guaranty you will be suprised by how well it works (I know I was). Now I'm not sure what the absorbsotion increase percentage is (i.e. I've never read anything which states an exact number), but I'd have to say for me personally it increases the strength from at least 40% absorbtion to around 70%. It feels pretty close to the strenth of morphine insufflated.

Now I've never IVed morphine (or anything else) but I have IMed and this method is by far the most efficient (i.e. more bang for the buck) that I've ever done. The next best in my opinion is the "brown" method aka stickin some m up the ol' poop shoot. This is the closest to IMing I have got without a needle. But with the Avinza for some reason snorting seems better so go ahead and stick with that. But if you ever get a different time released morphine formulation (MS Contin) try browning it, it'll hit ya hard and fast...

[shaunclo]

8 of em at once!! damn you crazy....

[Zoop]

Most time released formulations gel up when the pill is crushed and snoted/added to water to discourage misuse (it doesn't). Now I don't exactly know what they mix these pills with that causes them to turn into jelly (anyone please feel free to answer this...PK, Zoop, Nuke, I know one of yous knows) but I'm certain it was either designed by the devil, Televangelists, or the Scary Ass Burger King Mascot Guy (ya know that freak from the commercials...the one that gives me nightmares), or all three in some anti-fun conspiracy designed to destroy breakfast & early morning drug use (aka "Wake and Bake"). You can just wipe or chip off the time release on these types (tablets) and then crush those bitches the fuck up.

Now Avinzas are capsules filled with tiny white balls that you can easily crush. Luckily the Avinzas do not gel up in your nose either. However, snorting them feels much like how I would imagine snorting liquid hot shards of glass with teeth that are trying to chew their way into your brain thru your sinuses would feel. But at least they don't gel...

The Avinzas are (I believe) the latest time released formulation of Morphine Sulfate, therefore the technology used in manufacturing them is the latest and greatest pain in the ass. These capsules are part IR (instant release) and part SR/XR/ER or whatever the fuck you want to call time released. The reason for formulating the capsule this way is so the morphine repidly enters the bloodstream and reaches peak morphine plasma concentrations while the extended release portion maintains morphine concentrations for 24 hours. Botom line is eating them doesn't do nearly as much as any other method. But if you ate enough these may not be that bad. Just take the number of mgs that you'd take in an hour, say 120...then multiply that by 24 and there you go. So theoretically all you'd need to take is 2880mg of Avinza capsules and that should do the trick...simple..

On a side note I just railed about 8 30mg Morph IR's about 30 minutes ago...and as you may already know I'm completely out of my mind... I should never under any circumstances be taken seriously...and I should be considered dangerous and avoided at all times.

That Burger King guy is SCARY AS FUCK. As far as what they put in those ER formulations to discourage IV abuse, I don't know, but I do know that it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. The most common is just plain ol' microcrystalline wax. MS contin uses that. Also, somtimes they'll put a lot of tartrazine (yellow/orange/red coloring) in IR formulations to discourage IV abuse. Ever seen those MSIR capsules with the red little balls in them? I shot one of those one time and that red coloring, ugh! is all I can say.

Thanks, Paesan, you got me jonesing when I read that you railed up 8 30mg MS tabs. I have been off of all opies for 4 solid days now, and no WD to speak of. Still taking clonidine 0.1mg tabs every 8 hours or so just to keep that sweaty upper lip and hot flashes from coming on.

My wife's soma has been getting me through the joneses for the past few days. Ho hum.

[SomniGod]

"...dangerous...?" You are definitely DANGEROUS P! Nah, but i'm thinkin the 30's are the way to go... the 120's do the job... but IR I would think would make ya GLOW!

TRUE/FALSE?

~S~

[GMorris]

True, with a capital T! I've snorted all different brands of MS with the exception of Avinza, and the Roxane 30mg IR's are one of the best. There's another brand that I got once by a company called Ethex. Little bitty purplish-brown fuckers, the size of them makes the MS concentration higher and they REALLY pack a serious wallop! I had the real MSIR once as well, but I can't for the life of me remember if I snorted them or not. The MS Contins aren't too bad, you just need to crush them very well, and there's another I've tried that is a big white pill, also timed-release, that work quite well. It just takes longer for the MS to absorb when it's mixed with all that filler and crap.

Something I've been wanting to try is extracting the MS from the IR tablets and snorting the almost-pure stuff. I imagine it can be (and most likely has been) done, but I'm afraid of ruining it and ending up wasting them. Judging from the size of the Roxanes, it would probably reduce the amount you have to snort by at least 1/5, maybe more. Those things make MIGHTY rails, and I have to do it slowly or it'll get into my lungs and I'll just cough like hell.

[gnat]

sry double post

[gnat]

Yeah gm, that's what I'd like to do, get the avinza cleaned up.

Ohh well.. I think I'm going to ask the doc for something different the next time I go because avinza REALLY constipates me. I will NOT shit the day I take it. If I take it everyday I will NOT shit. I hate it... takes 3-5 days to finally shit and it's hell when I do. So I may be asking for something like MSContin since I think it's a 12hr pill instead of a 24hr like Avinza. I've found that if I take avinza every other day its the only way I can deal with the constipation. It's a shame really because I've read that it works best after 3 days of use. Each time I get over 2 days in me taken normally my pain really does start to diminish which is great but I just can't keep takin em :( :( :(

I would ask for oxy's or something else really good but my doc is a little apprehensive about them and other highly watched pills. He did try to put me on methadone to start with but I told him I was scared of it and it's really negative stigma. So Avinza is what we settled on.

[devilsdrug]

i can relate on the constipation many years ago i went 2wks w/o a dump. way too much good dope i use to sets my works ready to go in front of me while i sat on the throne take a dump or no dope. these days oatmeal or raisun bran at night does the job. self induced enema is what cured the problem way back then what a mess

[GMorris]

I'm thankful that MS doesn't constipate me. I've always been a morning shitter, and after 12 or more hours with no MS, I have NO problem pinching a loaf or two! But I have a similar rule, no dump, no MS in the morning. If it looks like it's just not gonna happen, I'll occasionally break the rule, but only if 2-3 hours go by with no production.

After that, I'll usually snort up about 55-60mg, which does the trick for me. Any more than that I'll just start itching and sweating and really not be able to properly enjoy the buzz OR the pain relief. A few hours later, I'll do 10mg more, then around 2-2:30pm another 60 or so. About 6:30-7, another 10 and I'm done for the night. Usually by then I've had enough beer that I don't have to worry about a buzz or much pain for that matter. I think if I was on a sustained release it might cause some constipation issues, so I'd much rather have the IR, it's easier to control dosage.

[gnat]

Yeah thats the bad thing about avinza...its a 24hr dose. It pisses me off, cuz after 2-3 days I get a real amazing pain relief but I get really stopped up too :(

[gnat]

Well I just insufilated a tiny bit to check it out. Doesn't hurt bad at all.... hmmm, well I only have 60mg pills to start with. If I crush one and split it (orally) I can feel it rather well.. If I take it all (orally) it gets me good. Two norco's get me good. I have a low tolerence. I guess I just took about a 10th of the 60mg and I'm waiting on the results.

edit - inhaled some more... i guess a total of about 20 mg, put the rest back in the capsule to take.

[Arok11]

is there any danger in taking too much tagament, or drinking too much grape fruit juice, and then consuming a drug that is digested using p-450. If you have a reduced liver function can this be harmful. I have an MS contin 100, cut in half (50-60mg), and want to use it and get high. The only problem is I usually have to eat about 130 mg to get high.

[kre1222]

Hey Paesan or anyone actually,
When using the "brown" method, do I need to crush the Avinzas or should I just stick the whole capsual in?

[kre1222]

I wonder how it would work, if you crushed the Avinza and mixed it in the grapefruit juice?

[kre1222]

Hey Paesan or anyone actually,
When using the "brown" method, do I need to crush the Avinzas or should I just stick the whole capsual in?

Never mind - I know the answer!

[kre1222]

The difference between swallowing a crushed pill and snorting??? Well the Avinza PDR information states that morphine has less than 40% oral bioavailability (I think it's more like 25%) so a 100mg dose would be less than 40mg taken IV or IM. When morphine is insufflated it bypasses the first pass liver metabolism allowing for increased absorbstion. I could be wrong but I believe it goes up to around 80% absorbstion when you snort it...so that 40mg when taken orally becomes 80mg when taken nasally, so basically it doubles in strength. With the IR (Instant Release) it feels to me like even more than that. 30mg Morphine IR's snorted feel stronger and last longer for me than 40mg OCs. It takes me about 200mg of OC (5 40mg pills either insufflated or crushed & eaten...for me there's not a big difference either way with OC) to feel a decent buzz...with the M IR it takes about 180mg (6 30mg pills) for an equal buzz, however the M lasts much much longer.

The onset of action is much faster as well when insufflated(i.e. it hits you faster and consequently harder)as opposed to orally which is allways nice.

Have you ever taken a tagament (cimetidine) or grapefruit juice before taking your Avinzas??? If not you definetely should as it will make a huge difference with morphines strength and duration. Both cimetidine and white grapefruit juice are Cytochrome P450 enzyme inhibitors. The P450 enzyme is the primary enzyme that metabolizes Morphine in your liver. By inhibiting that enzyme you're allowing for greater initial absorbstion and slowing if morphines overall metabolism thereby increasing the strength and duration of it's effects. Try taking 200-400mg of cimetidine with a tall glass of grapefruit juice about 30-60 minutes before taking your morphine orally...I guaranty you will be suprised by how well it works (I know I was). Now I'm not sure what the absorbsotion increase percentage is (i.e. I've never read anything which states an exact number), but I'd have to say for me personally it increases the strength from at least 40% absorbtion to around 70%. It feels pretty close to the strenth of morphine insufflated.

Now I've never IVed morphine (or anything else) but I have IMed and this method is by far the most efficient (i.e. more bang for the buck) that I've ever done. The next best in my opinion is the "brown" method aka stickin some m up the ol' poop shoot. This is the closest to IMing I have got without a needle. But with the Avinza for some reason snorting seems better so go ahead and stick with that. But if you ever get a different time released morphine formulation (MS Contin) try browning it, it'll hit ya hard and fast...


Damn! You were right paesan. The grapefruit and tagemet made a HUGE difference.

Thanks for the info.

[kre1222]

Where is everyone?

[Special-K]

Good Morning Everyone:

I'm up early on my morning cocktail (Avinza,Tagamet,Grapefruit Juice), and as you can see, I've had the urge to change my user name.......

Hope everyone has a great day!

[exitwound]

Hey Paesan or anyone actually,
When using the "brown" method, do I need to crush the Avinzas or should I just stick the whole capsual in?

Crush em.

[Special-K]

Thanks exitwound.
I'm wondering where is everyone? This is a good thread for me because I'm on the 120mg Avinza. I've been on em for about a year now, and I'm having trouble getting anything out of em. I started out this morning eating a tagemet and drinking grapefruit juice. I waited about an hour and then chewed one up real good in my mouth before swallowing it. I wasn't satisfieed so I broke another one open and crushed real good in a plate. I've snorted about 20mg and put the rest in a toilet paper package and stuffed it up my butt. I'm now waiting to see what I get . At this rate, I.m not gonna make t until my next appointment. But that's really nothing new, because I only get thirty a month and I always run out.

[devilsdrug]

have u hit on doc for breadthrough meds it does seem to be the goin thang

[Special-K]

I'm afraid to mention anything to the Pain Clinic. They are strict as hell. I mentioned Oxycontin one time and they went crazy. They immediately gave me a piss test. I had run out of the Avinza three or four days before my appointment and had been taking Lortab to keep me from going into the withdrawals. When they got the test results back they called me and canceled all future appointments. The test results showed Lortab with no Avinza. They accused me off trading my Avinza for Tabs. I wrote them a long letter explaining everything, and they finally agreed to keep seeing me. I've had no problems since then, but I never can seem to make them last 30 days.