on the verge of switching to methadone

[opiobsessed]

I'm currently on suboxone 8mg 3 times a day and been on it since late Feb of this year, and thinking of going to methadone. I used to get almost the same good feeling as the vicodin I used before I rehabbed, now I am getting pretty much almost no effects from it. My sub doc told me I should take all 3 subs at once under my tongue instead of spreading them out through the day like I said I do to keep the receptors refreshed. I'm wondering if he is hinting that maybe I should take all 3 at once for a better feeling but I tried it once and didn't notice much. I dont like that it has an antagonist in it, my body never agreed much with naloxone and I am strongly thinking of switching to methadone and would greatly appreciate anyones suggestions. Couple of questions, if I switch to done, will I have to go into wd to clear out the suboxone before I go to methadone? will I get a better buzz from methadone than suboxone ever gave me? I want to really go over this decision before I go about this, I know once I'm on the methadone, I will not ever be getting off it, I also know I will probably have to go into a clinic everyday, luckily I'm only 20 mins or less from the clinic but on the other hand dont want to just jump into this until I get facts first. As a last resort I'm going to try the less is more route on the subs, skip my dose until I start wd's and before I get too uncomfortable resume my dose and see if that helps much. The clinic near me is closed on weekends and has strange weekday hours so I'm going to get a hold of them next week and see what they say about getting in. However in the meantime let me know what you all think of my plan etc. By the way I'd like to get peoples opinion on the clinic I'm looking into, caps in chicago burbs, they have one in the city but I"m in the burbs so the city is out of the question.
thanks

[ontario_opiophile]

Yes Methadone will most likely give you a stronger nicer buzz. You could be one of the people who doesnt like it but many people do like it. I like it, but lately it hasnt been getting me buzzed at all for some reason but i've been on it forever and I can't up my dose at all like you can in a clinic. If my dose was upped 10mg I would be okay again so yah it's a pleasurable buzz. It lasts long, and keeps you quite content. You'll probably still think about doing vicodin or whatever you used to like but I dunno it's good. I haven't tried subs yet so I can't compare the two. Subuxone is a strong painkiller but it's not very recreational because it's a mixed agonist/antagonist. Buprenorphine is actually more potent than morphine and hydromorphone I believe so it's probably more potent than heroin as well. I'm half asleep so I could be wrong but i'm pretty sure i'm right. It's good for pain, but not good for buzzes because of the mixed agonist/antagonist qualities. Methadone is a full agonist. For me it was always stronger than morphine. And the buzz was longer and a better quality buzz than morphine. Back when I was young I could take like half a ml or 1ml of 10mg/ml solution and I would be high as a kite for a day. It is really strong despite what the government and doctors will lead you to believe. They always say it doesnt get people high and it does. I got high taking the same dose for like years without even raising it once. It' been years and now is the only time i'm needing to go up in my dose so yah it's pretty good and tolerance buils up slowly for me anyways. You should really find a way to try it before u know if you like it. For some people it really sucks. The first week or two of treatment may kinda suck cuz you'll probably be really drowsy from it. I always found it kept me stimulated but drowsy......i know that makes no sense but I can't sleep on the shit but i'm always drowsy lately. I think all my shitty problems with it now could be fixed by lowering for a week or two and then bringing the dose back up, or by just bringing it up but chasing the high never works. It's ultra long lasting and will keep you buzzed for quite a long time if your on a good sized dose. It's a nice high i've liked it more than all of the pharmaceuticals.

[lukilu]

Opi, Yea, I think you got the right idea . I belong to another site and 90% of the folks there say they have better luck with Sub acting like a agonist at the " Less is more " dealio . If I were you I would start at 4-6mg and move up from there . I currently take less than 1mg per day and it gives me a nice mood lift and some nice agonist qualities ! I would also try asking the Doc for Subutex it seems to be the cleaner of the 2 in my opinion . Let us know how it goes ? Lukilu

[opiobsessed]

Looks like its not as bad as I thought getting in, $75 intake charge plus $60 weekly and I have to come in everyday(no big deal)and they start letting me take home in 6 weeks. Only thing I'm waiting to hear from my doc now about how long I have to be in withdrawal from suboxone before switching to methadone.

[shaunclo]

Hey Opio, I have been on suboxone since May of last year. I personally have never felt "high" on suboxone. But thats just me. If you wanna get some high out of your maintenance drug than methadone would be it. I would strongly recomend though that you stay on suboxone, only for the reason that I have heard horrish stories regarding methadone and its long term "liquid handcuffs" shit. Just like Lukilu, I am also on 1 mg a day, but only to keep w/d's at bay. Since you are taking 24mg a day of suboxone, I would wait until you start feeling uncomfortable before you make the switch from subs to meth. I really dont think you will encounter any w/d from the switch though. That only happens when the switch is vice-versa. Going from any opiate to suboxone is tricky. Some have to wait 1-2 days, others need to wait only 12-24 hours. Good luck though!!

[oldschool?]

keep in mind that although methadone will give you a buzz at first eventually you'll be in the exact same boat you are now - taking somthing everyday that you cannot feel - currently i take 130 mgs a day and get no buzz whatsoever even though when i started i got a mild buzz from like 30!! I would suggest decreasing your sub dose low enough that you can use different opiates on occasion to get high...even if you deny feeling any drowsiness (like i did) so they keep increasing your dose you'll still eventually end up not feeling your dose no matter how high it is...Methadone maintenance is what it says "maintenance" its no way to catch a buzz! In fact when bupe becomes available in canada i may switch to it from methadone just so I can keep the dose low and just maybe get high on morphine once and a while again....sheesh i wish

[duke_nemmerle]

keep in mind that although methadone will give you a buzz at first eventually you'll be in the exact same boat you are now - taking somthing everyday that you cannot feel - currently i take 130 mgs a day and get no buzz whatsoever even though when i started i got a mild buzz from like 30!! I would suggest decreasing your sub dose low enough that you can use different opiates on occasion to get high...even if you deny feeling any drowsiness (like i did) so they keep increasing your dose you'll still eventually end up not feeling your dose no matter how high it is...Methadone maintenance is what it says "maintenance" its no way to catch a buzz! In fact when bupe becomes available in canada i may switch to it from methadone just so I can keep the dose low and just maybe get high on morphine once and a while again....sheesh i wish

So right, and exactly what I was going to say. The point of most maintenance programs is to keep you sober yet out of opiate withdrawals. I'd imagine it's a long road trying to get high maintaining

[HeidiW]

I wouldn't advise anyone getting on Methadone. It is prescibed to me for chronic pain. I'm afraid it's a monkey on my back I'll have a hell of a time getting rid of.

[red26]

Methadone is the bitch of all opiates to get off of. Be thinking of the future and wether or not your going to want to get high a year from now when your getting no effect from the done but you've increased your dose to a level you cant catch a buzz off anything else. It works great for pain relief, and your get good and fukerd up from it initially, but it goes away after a few months and then your stuck with the mother of all detoxs' and W.D.'s when you want to get high and have to stop taking it. At first it was a real blessing for me as a pain reliever, but after almost three years on it I wanted to get high too and could'nt. I suggest reviewing the clinics policies about how many times you can go back after falling off the wagon and go for a little while, detox for a few days and take a pill so you test hot on the U.A. when you go back, and repeat. Personally, I hate the stuff now and am really pissed the U.S. isnt doing the heroin thing like canada. If only...

[opiobsessed]

Yea I know what you mean about the U.S. and the heroin thing, I really hate the way the U.S. treats addicts and how their attitude towards opiates or any drug in general is. I really wish I lived in a country where I could get any opiate I wanted all day long because I have found the ideal antidepressant that has turned my life completely around for the better ever since I started my love affair with opium almost two years ago. I've been on every antidepressant you can think of, even my psychiatrist agrees that opiates seem to be the only thing that works best for me, if only the U.S. would have an open mind and allow opium to once again be prescribed as an antidepressant for people like me who have the unique body chemistry that accepts opium wonderfully. I worry alot that one day the U.S. is going to crush my and other people's only hope by banning opium totally. Maybe I'm just paranoid I guess, But I hope things change in the near future for the better.

[ontario_opiophile]

I really hope the heroin trials they are doing here prove that people will generally do better on heroin maintenance than methadone maintenance. If methadone and heroin maintenance are equally effective than I doubt the government will legalize Diamorphine for maintenance. I don't even understand why they are wasting the money on this stupid trial. They are only putting maybe 100-500 people in it, and they are only doing it in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. What about Ottawa, or Edmonton? Everything always skips Ottawa and we have 1,500,000 people in the general area of Ottawa/Gatineau. I think thats enough people to warrant some trials here. We have about 2000 known addicts in Ottawa and thousands more who havent come forward. Edmonton has about 1,000,000 people and probably alot of opiate addicts. They should do trials there too. I hate how everything is focused on Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. And why are they wasting million of dollars on this trial if the Dutch and Swiss governments have done trials of their own. There were positive results in the Swiss and Dutch heroin trials, and I think we should just learn from them. Why not read the reports on their trials and use it. It's obvious that opiate users in Canada aren't different from Swiss or Dutch opiate users. They all use the same drugs, withdraw the same way, get high the same way. Opiate use is a universal language. You couldnt find a place in the world where it wasnt the same. I think they should just start prescribing the Diamorphine to users. Just give them what they want. Nothing is better than pure pharmaceutical grade Diamorphine, and once junkies get some of that, most won't be looking for anything else to get high on. Most users fiend for Diamorphine while they are on Methadone and Suboxone, so once they get the heroin they wont be searching for anything better because right now, there is nothing better. Sure, some people have their individual tastes and some will prefer Morphine or Methadone to heroin, but for the most part, theres nothing that gives you the buzz heroin will. Sure some opiates are more potent, but that doesnt really mean they are better. Better yet, fuck this heroin maintenance. Why don't they just give people their drug of choice so they dont have to constantly search for it. Even if you give people heroin, some will want morphine or fentanyl because it's their drug of choice. So just give them their drugs and they'll be on their marry way. Mostly all opiates are safe for constant use, and sure there is some damage from them in the long term but it's better than overdose or death from shitty supply so it's more humane to just give people the drug they choose. Giving someone Methadone is no different from giving someone Morphine. Why isn't there Morphine maintenance, or Codeine maintenance, or Fentanyl maintenance? It's all just as legitimate as Methadone maintenance. Why does the government insist on giving people something they dont want or like. If you're going to prescribe Methadone, you sure as hell can prescribe Oxycodone, or Hydrocodone to people. There is absolutely no fucking difference. anyways, thats my rant. I really hope heroin is available to everyone in Canada soon. But, I wont bet on it, cuz our government will probably just waste the money on the trial and stick to Methadone.

[opiobsessed]

Great post ontario!, this makes great sense especially when it comes to people out there who have to resort to getting vicodin online and dealing with all that tylenol going through their liver. Especially when they dont know how to do a cwe. If they would only let us have our stuff, then we wouldn't have to risk our lives needlessly just trying to get a fix in a bad area or have to risk getting in big trouble just because we are trying to live a normal life and get through the day and be happy for once in our life. Sorry I have to rant myself, I would just love to go right up to the bigshots and say, legalize it, I need opium because my body does not make it naturally and I just want to feel good and be happy. I think that would be so cool if I was driving along someday and a huge box of oxys fell out of the back of a truck. Me stopping to grab it, then getting home and finding 50 bottles of 40mg oxys 100 in each bottle. That would be awesome.

[ontario_opiophile]

Haha i've daydreamed about robbing pharmacies quite a few times lol. Everytime I go into one I play out robbing it in my head and think about all the great pills and stuff, of course i'd never do it lol I just wish I had some good opiates to ease my pain. I wish some hydromorphone or oxymorphone would fall off a truck somewhere lol that would be nice. I think that Canada should just legalize heroin for clinic use and issue take homes like they do with methadone. They know it's safe, they know it works, and they know that people like it and if they are given the needles and syringes and little packaged cotton swabs with alcohol in them and maybe a little personal biohazard kid they would be able to shoot their heroin safely and they could just put the needles and syringes in the little biohazard container that fits in theirs pocket or napsack or whatever they could just put it in there and returntheir needles to the clinic the next day to dispose of them properly or something it woul all make perfect sense. They should give morphine maintenance and oxymorphone maintenance, buprenorphine maintenance and all other opiates for people who need them to live. They should have at the very least, 4 opiates to choose from so people can have something that works well with them. Maybe they could have oxycodone, hydromorphone, heroin and methadone maintenance to start off with and then add more like buprenorphine and levorphanol and some other synthetics or something. If i was in charge of it, there would be a huge selection for people who needed it. Prohibition does nothing to help people, it just drives people underground and makes it worse. Prohibition of alcohol didnt work and neither does the prohibition of drugs. Opiates were used for centuries for DEPRESSION! and almost every other ailment you can think of. Why all of the sudden did people start thinking of them as such horrible things. Opiates have good anti-depressant effects, and they work WAY better than prozac, paxil, zoloft or any other anti-depressant out there. These MAOI's and SSRI's and Tricyclic antidepressants are extremely ineffective and they haven't been around longenough to be proven safe for us to use. They take weeks even MONTHS! to start working. Opiates work instantly, and besides nausea they have little side effects, and the nausea usually goes away within a week or two anyways. Itching, euphoria, and constipation are the side effects people deal with while on them. And people deal with nausea sometimes too. But this is nothing compared to the side effects prozac has. DEATH and SUICIDAL BEHAVIOUR is listed as a side effect for some of these SSRI'.s If there is any hope for opiates being used to make people feel happy and alive again, I believe buprenorphine is the one that could open the gateway for opiates to be thought of as good drugs, not bad, junkie drugs. I think these partial agonist/antagonists would be good for depression and people would accept the use of them more than they would for something like heroin. Just the name of Heroin makes out of touch conversvatives shiver. But if you go and market Buprenorphine as something like, "Contenta" or "Bupressant" or something people would accept it. Oh well thats just another long pointless drug induced rant. I tend to rant alot, sorry guys haha.

Why would you take an SSRI or MAOI or Tricyclic anti-depressant if they have side effects like DYSPHORIA, BLEEDING, SEIZURES, MANIA, PARANOIA, and AGITATION and AGRESSIVE BEHAVIOUR!!! Why would doctors prescribe these to make you feel better!!! Wouldnt it make more sense to prescribe something with side effects such as: EUPHORIA (EXTREME FEELING OF WELL BEING)!!!! I think i'd like to have a feeling of well being, and I do! And thats because of opiates. No other anti-D will make you feel well when your clearly depressed as hell or in pain.