I got the methadone Blues

[notDrPhang]

hey guys and gals. I have not made a post in a while and I am feeling the need to rant. I have been in a Methadone program since September 2006 and have been doing quite well. I am holding down a job and have lots of nice "things" again. Not to mention I have gained lots of trust back from my family. People like who I am on done...hell I almost kind of like it.

My main complaint lately is how tired it makes me. I was on 150mg of syrup and dropped 20mg over the last two weeks. I actually felt kinda bad today. I threw up this morning and had the shits a little until my dose kicked it. But damn I can barely feel the shit work anymore. As I write this my bowls churn with pain and I feel more shits coming on and it is about 14 hours since I dosed.

I will have to admit my reason for wanting to drop down is because I need to get high again (there are a few other reasons). I am going to loose my fucking mind if i cant catch a nice warm rush sometime in the near future. I think I am going to have to stay at 130mg for a while if I continue to feel like shit in the mornings. I think I will stay here for a while before moving down again. I may also switch back to subs...that will let me party for a few days and then go back to being straight when I need to.

I guess my question is this...If I get down to a low dose of methadone, say 30mg's and I have close to a week of take home's.

seems all I have to do is stock up on some clean urine's (my clinic hardly tests me anymore and they did away with the supervised pissing) so all I have to do is take a vial of clean with me...the urine bottles dont even have the temp strips on them nor does anyone else just touch the bottles they just get dropped in a baggie and then into a fed ex envelope. So it is VERY easy to fake a urine screen. This way I can use and not loose my take homes.

Will I be able to shoot up again and actually get high? I hear you can feel dope on low doses of done..also I guess not taking any for two days will help.

Also I wonder how fucked my tolerance is and if it will drop as I taper down on my methadone.

I am wondering if anyone has done anything like this before. I am getting to be a really depressed person now that I dont get that warm Opie buzz anymore.

Sobriety is a real drag and I dont think I am made to be sober %100 percent of the time. Between methadone and suboxone there has got to be a way to beat the system.


Input peeps?

[Sinderella]

Hiya NDR,
I wish I could give you some advice on this but I really cant..I am currently on MMT myself at 120mg a day.Which unfortunately is top out for the doctor at my clinic and not nearly enough to hold me all day long.I cant imagine going through that on purpose when a higher dose is available to you..Though in turn I can understand that desire to get high..There are times I would LOVE to get high just one more time...Personally I would go back up on my dose if I were you and maybe find something else to do to get rid of the cravings.They will only get worse the more you go down..The thing is going down isnt always a sure bet that you will be able to get high again soon after going down or off either methadone or bupe..I know of several people that were forced to taper off the clinic at lower doses than you for non payment that said it was atleast 4months after getting off the methadone completely before they began to feel a "buzz" from any opiate.Or a buzz that was worth talking about anyways..You may be different but as I said these were people on between 95 and 110mgs a day..Hell if they dont watch you give your UA;s there are other ways to catch a warm fuzzy buzz while still being comfy on your methadone dose..But then this is just my opinion and its from someone who hasnt ever been on a stable dose so wouldnt give up the chance at one for anything..The ONLY thing that keeps me from using other things right now is the fact that our UA's are ALWAYS observed and I cant afford to lose my takehomes because my job would go out the door with them..I wish you lots of luck and hope this works out for you if thats what you want..I am one of these people that are all for a person doing whats right for them despite what is "right" for everyone else or even just someone else....
Have a good one....

[jonny-5]

damn i would kill for even 15 mg of methadone right now...

[insaneike]

I'm sorry but whats the point of being on subs and crap if your goal isn't to get clean?

Now if you're one the people who use 'done as a maintanace drug and as a guaranteed if so no WDs and have no intention of getting clean I dunno. Either go back to your drug of choice or live with your programs. I would never ever get on either if my goal wasn't to actually get clean... I would just stay with my drug of choice man..


and if you're on 80+mg of 'done that will block other opis. On doses below 80mg you can use it as a very good potentator for other opis. I take 45mg a day(for chronic pain) used as a potentator for my other opis(fent and roxi 30s. pod tea some mornings as a booster too). So i can guarantee(but then again everyone reacts differently) if you're on just 40-60mg you can use it as a potentator for other opioids. It deff does NOT block them at aLL at that dose.
The only thing that may be blocked is if your toler is at the point where thats a full dose of 'done for you, in which case you'll just get the sedating effects of 'done and that will have so much of an opioid in you that you wont be able to do enough of your drug of choice without doing too much. know what I mean?

so i dunno man. either get off the subs/done(or get down to 60mg or less of 'done) or get back on your drug of choice(what i would do since your obviously not really wanting clean and wanna get high again. You can always go back to t n subs, right?


Good luck man!!! Hope things work out for ya!

[Leavittobeav]

I agree with ike on the idea of what is the point of doing mmt or suboxone if you arent really trying to get clean? But I do think it is a bad idea to get back on your DOC. The deceitful behavior you have to go through to be an addict isnt worth switching back to your DOC, not to mention not being able to afford anything else. You said it yourself, you are starting to gain peoples trust back, why ruin this? Unless you are being perscribed your DOC you have 3 options that I can see. 1 being the cold turkey approach which would be the hardest and your likely to relapse. 2 stick with the done and just hang in there for a while. 3 make the tough switch over to subs, this choice might suck for a while but in the long run it might be better than the first two choices. Or go back to the DOC and continue on a self destructive path that will continue to make your life worse and worse. I feel your pain, but just try to hang in there, Im going through something similar. Good luck.

[notDrPhang]

I will post a bit more into it later...it is just the way the methadone is making me feel lately...it is really fucking with me. I am going to give 130mg a try for another few days and see if I adjust ok. I dont feel so bad...it is about 6:30am and I am about to head to the clinic. I need to get my take homes back and maybe I wont be so pissed about all the drive time/gas money going to the clinic eats up.

Maybe once my insurance kicks in and I can go back on my Ritalin maybe I can go back up on my done and not be so out of it......

but I actually don't feel so bad today...we will see how things pan out.

[poppy]

I hope you are feeling better still, and that you were just having a particularly bad day yesterday. I too am on a methadone script (65ml) as is my boyfriend (95ml). My boyfriend uses heroin pretty much constantly on top of his script and definitely gets the 'warm rush' you speak of and gauches (very annoying for me who is desperately trying to get clean!!!!) I use h probably one day once a fortnight (my aim is to get clean though, heroin has claimed ten years of my life and I've got to the stagewhere I really have had enough) Therefore I usually regret it using and feel guilty for letting my family down again (they think I'm just on my script now) Like my boyfriend I definitely get a buzz but I am only on 65ml methadone a day, to be honest I've had a script so long I can't really remember what it felt like to just take heroin on its own. I had a really bad craving day last thursday which I think was triggered by bumping into a bunch of local junkies who I know who were waiting to score on the park where I was walking my dogs. Luckily as I had my son with me I had no option but to resist scoring when the dealer turned up. I got home to find my boyfriend home early and unexpectedly from work totally wasted which just made my cravings even worse. Somehow or other I got through it and was pleased the next day that I had resisted. You might find that you'd regret it too if you used and you certainly seem to have a lot to lose if you go back to your DOC - try and remember the bad old days before you had a script. Ultimately like others have said there are other options available, the choice is yours.

[greasy_bear]

Will I be able to shoot up again and actually get high? I hear you can feel dope on low doses of done..also I guess not taking any for two days will help.
Also I wonder how fucked my tolerance is and if it will drop as I taper down on my methadone.

I was thrown off of MMT due to using H while on the program.
At 80 mgs, I was able to feel a rush from a shot 2 X what it would take normally (pre-methadone).
I have no idea how close I came to ODing while doing that stupid shit and at that point in my life I didn't care.
On meth for less than a year, I never really liked the clinic system.
You'd probably be better off asking for help at your clinic in learning how to cope with the cravings.
It sounds like you're otherwise happy with what it's done for you.
Good luck in choosing the right thing.

[prettypoppy]

I'm sorry but whats the point of being on subs and crap if your goal isn't to get clean?




I know many here will disagree with me on this, which is cool, but I read this post on another site and thought it described how I feel about maintenance treatment to a "t" so I am posting it here--he says it better than I ever could. Here it is:

"This excellent post was made on www.naabt.org (http://www.naabt.org/) by TIM. I believe that it applies to anyone that is in MAT:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Philosophy of treatment; What is the real goal?


"Much more research on buprenorphine and addiction in general is needed, but as important is the philosophy of addiction treatment. By that I mean what is the real goal of the treatment? How is success measured? Years ago there were no treatment medications, so measuring success was easy, if the patient didn’t take any drugs/medications for an extended period of time they had succeeded.

A study published in 2003 compared a 6 day buprenorphine detox to 1 year of buprenorphine maintenance. 70% of the maintenance group remained addiction free for the entire year, 0% of the detox group lasted 60 days, and 20% of them died during the 1 year study. Both groups were offered identical psychosocial care throughout the entire year. The detox group was “drug free” after day 7, or “clean” as the 12step groups term it. Is “drug free” or “clean” a reasonable goal of treatment? Is the drug really the problem, after all millions of people take opioid painkillers and don’t become addicted. No, “Addiction” is the problem, and is what the treatment is aimed at. Addiction is the uncontrollable compulsive behavior that ruins lives.

At one time “drug free” and “addiction free” were synonymous, but not anymore. Now someone can be on a medication such as buprenorphine and still be addiction free. So how do we measure success? We measure success by the amount of positive change in one’s life, by ending the addictive behavior first and not being sidetracked with goals of “drug free”. Obviously, if “addiction free” can be achieved without medication, that is the more logical route, but people should not put their lives at risk to obtain “drug free” when “addiction” is what is actually hurting them. Taking a pill each morning is not addiction, even if withdrawal occurs in its absence. That is “physical dependence” and is normal and manageable. It is secondary to the real goal of ending the addiction, that’s what’s important.

Relapse is a life threatening event. It is sometimes minimized because only survivors of previous relapses remain here to evaluate their risk. The more episodes of surviving relapse, the lower the perceived risk. Every step should be taken to minimize the chance of relapse. The first 90 days are the most critical and when most relapses and overdose deaths occur. The rush to reach the less important goal of “drug free” puts people at risk of relapse. In the study mentioned above 20% of the detox group died attempting to reach the goal of “drug free”. This skewed priority of treatment, lead them to seek “drug/medication free” instead of the important goal of “addiction free” and cost them their lives.

Some cannot get out of the “drug free” mentality and don’t see years of “addiction free” life while in treatment as success. They only see success as what happens after treatment. Science has shown us this is an unreasonable point of view. Addiction is a chronic brain disease. It can persist for many months, years and in some cases indefinitely. For the latter, stopping treatment would mean certain relapse or a life of misery. Does this mean they will never succeed? No. “drug free” must not be considered the goal of treatment no more than “insulin free” be the goal of diabetes treatment. Sure it would be preferable if neither condition required medication but that is not realistic. Ending addictive behavior is successful treatment whether it requires a medication or not.

Everyone should ask themselves: What is my goal of my addiction treatment? What is important in my life? What are my priorities? When the focus is on your quality of life instead of someone else’s definition of “clean” the answers become clear.

Congratulations to everyone who had the wisdom to seek an evidence-based treatment for what is known to be a chronic disease of the brain. I wish you all continued success and thank you for taking the time to participate in this forum and helping others. For each person who posts 20 people just read so your words of encouragement help more than you may know. "