sub and naloxone

[opiobsessed]

I dont quite understand how sub works when it has an antagonist in it also. I know when you take suboxone as prescribed, that the naloxone in it doesn't get absorbed its just there to prevent abuse. However, certainly after you hold the sub under your tongue 5 mins after its dissolved, then swallow it some naloxone must get into the receptors eventually as well. What I wonder, is if naloxone were not in suboxone at all would just the bupe get me more buzzed? I just wonder because one time I was on naloxone alone and it put me in a horrible wd and made me just not want to eat for a week so I quit taking it. Then I went onto the sub program. If I'm sensitive to naloxone like that, would I be better off switching to methadone? I really basically want a better buzz but want to make sure I know what I'm doing before getting involved with done.

[Zoop]

I guess the naloxone wont do much to you because it just doesn't get absorbed that well, even sublingually. NALTREXONE is a different story. Those are those "Revia" pills.

I am this close to calling a bupe doc in my area - there are several - and was wondering how much of a pain in the ass it's gonna be to get an RX for suboxone or preferably, sebutex, the one without naloxone.

[shaunclo]

As far as I know, Suboxone is the only thing they will prescribe for you. Trying to get subutex or temgesic (buprenorphine w/ out naloxone) is something I have never heard of. Subutex is the first thing the doctor gives you when you first go in, then he gives you suboxone as a take home. I have heard on this site that all you have to do is say that you are sensistive to naloxone and they will give you subutex. I guaranty it depends on waht doc you go to though, I know for a fact that my doc would NOT give out subutex for recovering addicts, for the plain and simple point that he knows that you will try to shoot it eventually. Hell, I know after a couple of weeks on suboxone I even tried to shoot the Sub. So it makes sense to me. But we should have the Goddamn choice.

[jacky]

I thought the same thing, but another opiophile corrected me on this issue. apperantly this person and several of her freinds told the DR after taking the suboxone for a little while that they were getting very bad headaches, the DR prescribed buprenorphine without naloxone for them. rather than try to get the naloxone dropped initially try waiting several weeks, and then get ahold of your DR. Maybe there is another step to the protocol concerning bup, that if a person starts experiencing wihtdrawl symptoms that the naloxone can be legally dropped.

[lukilu]

It was me {He}:cool: that talked about getting Subutex from the Doctor ! I told him I heard Subutex wont give me a headache like Suboxone sometimes does . He did give me Subutex:p - Still does:D ! I have heard of others getting Subutex also but most Doctors wont do it . If you are in S Calif let me know and I will PM you the Doctor . Lukilu

[Zoop]

I am still not 100% clear on how much a pain in the butt it is to get on these meds.

Maybe specific questions would help:

1. How much oversight do the docs give you when they prescribe? How much supply can you get at once - 90 days? Do they try and make you go to 12-step meetings?

2. WHERE can you get the prescription filled. Is it some kind of special thing where you go or send off for, or can a regular retail pharmacy fill the RX?

I have several docs in my area, but I don't wanna go through a whole big rigamarole with montoring meeting attendence and getting slips signed and all that dumb shit.

[shaunclo]

Maybe specific questions would help:

1. How much oversight do the docs give you when they prescribe? How much supply can you get at once - 90 days? Do they try and make you go to 12-step meetings?


When you first see a bup doc, he gives you 1 days worth of suboxone. You then need to come back the next day. Then when you see him the next day, you will need to come back in 2 days. Then he does a week, then a monthly basis. And yes, they try to make you go to a 12-step meeting, but I told him to fuck off on that one.

2. WHERE can you get the prescription filled. Is it some kind of special thing where you go or send off for, or can a regular retail pharmacy fill the RX?

I have several docs in my area, but I don't wanna go through a whole big rigamarole with montoring meeting attendence and getting slips signed and all that dumb shit.
[/quote]

You can get the prescription filled at any pharmacy. The first couple of weeks though you get it straight from your doc, then you go to any pharmacy.

[shaunclo]

Zoop, I had 1 more thing to add, I am pretty sure that you are on Kratom, Yes? Is this what you want suboxone for? I have been trying to ween myself off of suboxone for the last 4 months. Its a bitch, I was even thinking about trading addictions and getting on Kratom, then just kick Kratom. Are the w/d's from Kratom that bad? I wanted to ask you this for a while now......thanks

[Zoop]

Yeah, the only reason I'm interested in bupe is that I think it'll be a bit cheaper than kratom. I am spending about $300 a month on this shit, but truth be told I most of the time am not feelin any pain if you know what I mean.

As far as I know, kratom WD's are not as bad as heroin and "real" opiates, but they are no joke either. I have gone through WD's three times since January of this year and the longest I went was three days. I still felt uncomfortable and fatigued on the third day, but then my shipment came in to FEDEX and it was back off to the races.

The first day without is not too bad, the end of the second day on in to the first part of the third is the worst. Pretty much what you'd expect from opiate WD. Runny nose, watery eyes, feeling of jitteryness, can't sit still, lots of yawning, muscle cramps, fatigue. I did not experience any nausea or diarrhea though.

Is that worse than bupe WD?

[opiobsessed]

Trouble is, my sub doc knows I have the unique body chemistry that accepts opiates great as antidepressant and I get the warm,cozy,energetic,happy etc feeling from all opiates. He knows I have no desire to ever be off any opiate completely, thats the only reason he keeps me on 3 8mgs a day. He knows I have relapsed once since I"ve been on sub and is very careful about making sure my wife keeps them and gives subs to me daily so I dont abuse them too. I talked to him last time I saw him and asked if I could go on subutex instead because I was still getting discomfort on the subs. He said I know what you are getting at and I"m sorry there is no way I will let you get the other one. He's a nice cool doc but seems worried mostly about the stupid dea stuff and thinks I am a great relapse waiting to happen. I worry that he might start taking me off the subs. He tried lowering my dose slowly two months ago and I started craving and slightly wd again and he put me right back on my usual dose. What I wonder is, do bupe docs only let us stay on it for 6 months? or can we be on it the rest of our lives? anyone know of a way I can get my sub doc to get me on subutex? he told me if I get any reaction at all to the naloxone in sub that I would have a reaction to subutex as well. Is that true or is he just not wanting me to get fully buzzed again?

[shaunclo]

First off, Zoop: To me the sub w/d is pretty bad. I cannot function at work at all. I could handle it if I was at home with a million movies and a lb of bud. But this would take 2-3 weeks to get completely off the sub w/d's. So your saying that on the 3rd day the w/d were subsiding?

Second opiobsessed: I am pretty sure you can maintain on sub for as long as you want. It is just costing me too much money. There was someone saying that if you complained about headaches from the naloxone you could get prescribed subutex, or temgesic instead of suboxone. But Im pretty sure it is all up to your doc. About the buzz thing, I dont really get a buzz from sub's, never really did. Everyone is different though.

[shaunclo]

Hey Opiobssesed, The person who claims that you can get subutex is actually in the beginning of this post. Scroll up, the name is "Lukilu" Im sure he/she can help you out about which doc to go to.

[jcdpoop]

I guess the naloxone wont do much to you because it just doesn't get absorbed that well, even sublingually. NALTREXONE is a different story. Those are those "Revia" pills.

I am this close to calling a bupe doc in my area - there are several - and was wondering how much of a pain in the ass it's gonna be to get an RX for suboxone or preferably, sebutex, the one without naloxone.


the first doctor i called had a 2 yr waiting list. 2nd was 9 months. 3rd was 3 1/2 months. 4th... no waiting list. was taking the day after i got out of rehab. and i get prescribed subutex and suboxone. i have cancer and get a lot of spinal taps, and they shoot me up with fentanyl when they do em so i take subutex 3 days before i am getting fentanyl and maybe even after i get my spinal tap for a day or or so (not sure, just started them today) and then the rest of the days i take suboxone.

p.s. - a lot of doctors only prescribe subutex for detoxing because it doesnt have the blocker. i think you will find almost every doctor you see will give you suboxone over subutex or methadone. (i have been on all three though)

[opiobsessed]

I just talked to someone I met the other day, he and his buddy told me since I'm not getting hardly any buzz effects from my suboxone like I used to that I should crush up one or two 8mg pills and snort them and I would get much higher like being on morphine or oxy. I'm afraid this is just an "urban legend" not true. I was told by my sub doc that if I snort the pills or iv them I will go into horrible wd. Now someone tells me I will get a real good buzz if I snort them properly so none of the powder goes down my throat, and will go right to the head. However wont the naloxone go right to my head as well and put me in horrible wd? I'm itching for some input from real experiences here, can anyone here tell me from experience if I will get a real good buzz if I start snorting my subs? I am on the verge of trying it, but horrified of wd's, I'm very sensitive to wd and have a family history of heart disease and I avoid wd's like death. If anyone here has any advice on how I can take these subs in some way to get a better buzz let me know.

[tar veins jj]

The reason why suboxone is still effective even because it has naloxone in it is because naloxone doesnt absorb through the stomach. It is only effective through the blood stream...it is an "shoot-proof" sublingual tablet basicaly. I have been on the medicine for over 2 years now and in no way do the doctors only keep you on for 6 months...my doctor actually told me the longer the better (because the longer abstinent from heroin, the better). I get prescribed 60 8mg tablets each month...and you can get them at any pharmacy now. If you have insurance they are like 30 dollars a refil...if not....youre getting hit up for about 300 a bottle.


Also, opiobsessed...i dont know about the snorting method...it definatly wont put you into withdrawal...but it might just not do anything. If you want to "get a buzz" then why are you even taking them in the first place...why dont you just stop taking them and relapse...or just take another tablet?

[opiobsessed]

Quoting the post above me, good question about why I dont just stop taking them and relapse? to be honest with you the main reason is because I can't relapse right now because I dont know anyone who has any cool stuff like H or oxy etc. I actually did relapse two weeks ago only because I was able to order 120 more vicodin 10/500 on the net since I am already a legit customer there, but the relapse was not that fun because I had to wd for 24 hours to get the sub out and then after I ran out of vicodin I had to wd even worse for 24 hours once again and strange thing is when I resumed my sub again, I had to take 3 in one hour every 4 hours that day just to keep the wd at bay. It took me almost a week to feel totally normal again and one strange thing that happened is halfway through the week while back on suboxone. One day I took my normal dose back to normal again and then by almost suppertime I suddenly started feeling just like a migraine headache, I had a horrible headache all afternoon actually but took 4 asprin, it went kind of away and then at suppertime I felt such a headache and sick to my stomach and took a tagamet and two more asprin. I amazingly was able to eat supper and take my 6pm sub dose and then suddenly an hour later I was fine. I've been getting these strange headaches and kind of sick stomach feelings off and on now for a month or so, even before I relapsed. Is that from the suboxone or something else? anyone else get the headaches and sick stomach feelings on subs?

[D Phoria]

I dont quite understand how sub works when it has an antagonist in it also. I know when you take suboxone as prescribed, that the naloxone in it doesn't get absorbed its just there to prevent abuse. However, certainly after you hold the sub under your tongue 5 mins after its dissolved, then swallow it some naloxone must get into the receptors eventually as well. What I wonder, is if naloxone were not in suboxone at all would just the bupe get me more buzzed? I just wonder because one time I was on naloxone alone and it put me in a horrible wd and made me just not want to eat for a week so I quit taking it. Then I went onto the sub program. If I'm sensitive to naloxone like that, would I be better off switching to methadone? I really basically want a better buzz but want to make sure I know what I'm doing before getting involved with done.

I just went to a sub doc. Called on Monday, he saw me monday afternoon. Wrote me a scrip for 120 2mg suboxone and told me to take 2 in the am after I had waited until I was in wd and either 1 or 2 more later that afternoon, I filled the scrip at a national pharmacy, but I had to call around. The scrip was 395.00. It's supposed to be a months worth. Doc charged 200. I'm afraid to take it..Stupid pods everywhere. Once I run out, I'll bite the bullet and take it.