6 day detox?

[chopstix]

I saw a sub doc for the first time yesterday and he wants to do a 6 day detox with subutex. 6 days seems pretty fucking short, I told him I work two jobs, need to be on the ball and that I was concerned that 6 days seemed kinda quick for a 2 gram a day black habit but he doesn't care. Anyone been through such a short detox? I wonder what the taper rate will be? I have to go in Monday morning sick and he said I'll probably be there for four hours, I'm guessing he's gonna feed me 2mg at a time until I start smiling/quit puking and then write the script.

Should I try and work it somehow so I can get a few more pills? I've never taken subs so I don't know how long they take to kick in or how much I'll really need to be well enough to function. Once I have the script, I'm gonna try and get by on as little as possible and stretch them out because I really do want to jump off this bullshit dope habit (I was clean for 7 years and have been strung out again for a year, I'm seriously kicking myself for getting so strung out again..) but I'm not sure 6 days is gonna cut it.

Has anyone done or heard of a taper this quick and what would say a 100mg of methadone a day translate into a sub dosage? Not sure if that question makes sense but its hard to quantify street dope strength 'cause it all varies.. I swear the dope has gotten shittier (and a lot cheaper) since I quit in 98..

[chemboy7]

Are you detoxing to nothing over 6 days or are you getting an ongoing script? If you are going to nothing in 6 days, yeah, that's pretty fast. Bupenorphine has a long ass half-life just like Methadone and should be tapered slowly if possible. If I could only get subs for 6 days for a 2 gram/day habit I would either check elsewhere or try to taper my own on the dope... why start taking something with such a long half-life and nasty, drawn out WDs when you know your gonna be cut so soon? Seems like putting yourself through more pain to me. Maybe check around and try to find another sub doc who is willing to not be such an asshole or find a Methadone clinic. I know alot of people on here will say alot of things about getting on MMT because of the withdrawls that Methadone produce but I don't think alot of people realize that Suboxone/Subutex is just as hellish. I would actually prefer Methadone over my subs because atleast with them I would have a tiny glow; I don't even really get that when I IV my subs... they actually make me into something of an emotional zombie, I'd feel normal on Methadone (I'm pretty sure). Anyways, yeah man, 6 days is rediculously fast... I would turn it down myself.

[MissyAggravation]

yeah from a decent habit to a six day detox to nothing would be awful and probably won't work if you're really trying to get clean. i mean of course if could work if you were honestly determined but it won't be easy and you'll still have some withdrawals. i myself wouldn't be willing to do it without a script to take home.
i would perhaps shop around for another sub doc if he plans to cut you off of it after the six days and not script you any subs at all. that is if you have time to doc shop.
as far as how long the subs take to kick in - under 30 minutes generally.
and as far as dosage - i am sure it varies from doc to doc and what they each think is right.
i went from a near three year 240mgs oxy a day/100mcg fent patch every 2 days habit to 24 mgs of suboxone a day and that was more than i needed to feel well(i actually get by on about 8mgs) .
i would expect your dosage to be around 24mgs a day most likely. but like i said that depends on the doc.

[tptptp]

I saw a sub doc for the first time yesterday and he wants to do a 6 day detox with subutex. 6 days seems pretty fucking short, I told him I work two jobs, need to be on the ball and that I was concerned that 6 days seemed kinda quick for a 2 gram a day black habit but he doesn't care. Anyone been through such a short detox? I wonder what the taper rate will be? I have to go in Monday morning sick and he said I'll probably be there for four hours, I'm guessing he's gonna feed me 2mg at a time until I start smiling/quit puking and then write the script.

Should I try and work it somehow so I can get a few more pills? I've never taken subs so I don't know how long they take to kick in or how much I'll really need to be well enough to function. Once I have the script, I'm gonna try and get by on as little as possible and stretch them out because I really do want to jump off this bullshit dope habit (I was clean for 7 years and have been strung out again for a year, I'm seriously kicking myself for getting so strung out again..) but I'm not sure 6 days is gonna cut it.

Has anyone done or heard of a taper this quick and what would say a 100mg of methadone a day translate into a sub dosage? Not sure if that question makes sense but its hard to quantify street dope strength 'cause it all varies.. I swear the dope has gotten shittier (and a lot cheaper) since I quit in 98..

I dunno, ive seen one person on here claim her husband does an inpatient detox on SMALL amounts of subs for 3 1/2 days or so asfter heavy h habits and then the majority of H WD is over. I know you wanna get off the subs as soon as possible. The first couple days suck mentally but if they dont hurt physically just tough it out and get through cuz taking a bunhch extra wibt do much for you. Unfortunately as it is just about every sub doc overprescribed my guess is hes gonna put you on some ridiculously large dose or somethjing......I dunno i'd say 9 times out of 10 his "taper" is BS plan. I can say this much - dont stay on high doses of subs for long because then your wd will last forever.

When would the hardest part of your H detox be over cold turkey? thats about how long you ideally wanna take the subs.... you dont wanna be on them long....id imagine 6 days from the start of WD you'd be over the major hump?

I actually dont think 6 days is too short for an H habit DEPENDING onh ow he doses you and if he does it right (most docs dont have a fucking clue) I'll tell you one thing though regardless of what klind of taperr/yadda yadda etc. I would plan for some diahrrea severe depression, some downtime from jobs etc. dont go in like your gonna go right back to those two jobs, sadly to say I feart you';re gonna need a backup plan to keep working. who knows maybe this is a good taper.

Very few people dont get "any" or very mild WD's from sub erven after being on long times! most people hurt for a long time coming off subs unless they are on it for a couple weeks or less (and sometimes even tehn!) depends on alot of stuff. dont let them feed you up on 24mg doses or you're gonna be hurting in the end. GEt to where the subs kills your PHYSICAL WD no more and stay there.

Also believe it or not if 32mg or 24mg makes you feel like shit you probably will feel better on less.....its just hard to get used to 8mg might make you feel kinda good so your brain says more more more and you do more and feel worse....

do you wanna quit REALLY bad? if not there are MANY other options out there. Ranging from long term maintenance to 3 day to 21 day detox.

[HeidiW]

Good luck man.

[tui]

I'm about to start the same thing.

From what I can figure out, it takes 10 days to get addicted to suboxene. So, they just give it to you long enough to cover up the methadone or heroin withdrawals, but not long enough to create a new addiction.
Because you'll be on it for such a short time they won't have to wean you off, because you won't be addicted.

100mgs of methadone might be a bit much to jump off from though. I only say that because my doc made me reduce from 95mgs to 45mgs before doing the suboxene detox. Ask him to prescribe you clonidine and diazapam to help with the detox. That is what my doc is doing for me.

Apart from that, I think how hellishly the detox unfolds really depends on you as an individual...
Just tell yourself it will be okay.

That's what I'm doing.
t

[HeidiW]

Yep, a little bit of mind over matter. Easier said than done, for me that is.:rolleyes:

[chopstix]

Thanks for the advice. I think that this is a bullshit clinic but it's a lot cheaper for the Dr visits there than anything else around here and all the other clinics have crazy waiting lists or charge $400 for the initial visit (or both). I don't have time to fuck around anymore and wait another 45 days and continue spending all my money on this dirty fucking chiva and methadone wafers. I'm sick of it - I want my bank account back and I want my sex life back.

I'm gonna try the 6 day detox thing and if it's not working then I'll see if he'll write for more. I figure after 6 days on subs, my habit will be low enough that I'll be able to get by on a few mgs and then maybe he'll write for another week or so at a small dose. I have to do something, the dope habit is costing too much and I know my GF is getting suspicious and she's an ex-junky.. This is all getting out of control and it's time to make a change..

I'm about to start the same thing.

From what I can figure out, it takes 10 days to get addicted to suboxene. So, they just give it to you long enough to cover up the methadone or heroin withdrawals, but not long enough to create a new addiction.
Because you'll be on it for such a short time they won't have to wean you off, because you won't be addicted.


Hi Tui, I just want to point out something in your post that is a really common mis-conception, don't take it the wrong way, I'm just trying to pass on some truth. :)

Opiate addiction is all the same as far as your receptors are concerned. Heroin, Morphine, Methadone, Hydrocodone, Darvon, Opium, etc. are all cross addictive and there is no such thing as "create[ing] a new [opiate] addiction" in someone who already has an opiate habit. That's why Heroin addicts can jump right on to Methadone or subs with no ill affects. It is true that withdrawal intensity, half-life and duration of action differ between the drugs but you're not really "covering up Heroin withdrawals" while taking the subs, you're weaning your opiate habit down slowly with a long acting drug (usually methadone or buprenorphine) while letting your body slowly compensate and start producing it's own endorphins again. It generally takes a bit longer than 6 days for your body to rebound from something like a 2 gram a day tar habit which is why I'm concerned about the speed of this detox and the rate of taper this Dr. thinks is going to work for me..

I hope that didn't come across as rude or condescending. I've been at this for awhile and I used to hear people say all the time "just go drink methadone for 5 days and you won't have a heroin habit anymore" and it's total bullshit, people that say that don't understand opiate addiction at all. What happens is after 5 days they have a bunch of 'done in their system and so they go a day or two without a dose or a shot, think they're "cured" and go fix to celebrate. ;)

[tptptp]

How much is he charging? If you call around to afew sub places you'll be able to find something reasonable unless you live in the middle of nowhere. If you have insurance which im assuming since you got two jobs subs really arent that expensive. If you call around you shouldnt be paying more than $150/mo after the first couple months and not more than $250 the first couple months.

The trick is most docs overprescribe like hell (plus if you snort them they go twice as far) even coming off a crazy habit you should be able to get by on 8mg max oral (4mg snorted) once you get adjusted - about a week in. But it shouldnt be hard for a doc to prescibe you 3 or 4 times the oral and 6 or 8 tyimes the snorted ( and actulaly most get by on 2-4 oral 1-2 snorted.....Basically the script is $25-$40(brand name only) and the doc visit. If you play it out right you can land like a year worth of subs for around $200.

Thats some cheap maintenance...not only that you should be able to sell a few on the street because of the price without insurance ($5, usually 6+ each) doc visits, hassle, people pay some ridiculoius prices, some people here pay $20 a pop...... you should be able to get 120 for about $2 each.

but hey if you wanna quit quit go for it, just dont avoid subs because of the cost (its not as bad as most think...avoid it for the wd after being on it too long(its alot worse than most think)

as long as you can handle the mental side of it you vcan lower your tolerance on them too - switching back and forth isnt that fun though, they arte better than being sober mentally & they will keep the physical WD away.

[chopstix]

How much is he charging? If you call around to afew sub places you'll be able to find something reasonable unless you live in the middle of nowhere. If you have insurance which im assuming since you got two jobs subs really arent that expensive. If you call around you shouldnt be paying more than $150/mo after the first couple months and not more than $250 the first couple months.

I have called around, the clinic visits where I'm at now are are $57.50 a pop. I had one last week and I'm supposed to show up sick tomorrow and pay for another clinic visit which will also cover the first bup dose(s). The relatively cheap visits and the relatively short waiting list is why I wound up at this place (it's the local ghetto clinic.) I live in a small coastal Cali town and there are a lot of junkies and sub doctors here, but like everything else, it's damned expensive here. I called a local pharmacy (Longs Drugs) and got a quote for 18ct 8mg Subutex - $140. Does that seem out of line? I'm on the payroll for one company, 1099 for a few others and also do a bunch of work for private clients but I'm basically a consultant and I don't get benefits at this point (I also don't have to show up at 9am every morning which is nice considering the current circumstances), so at this point all of my medical is out of pocket which is kinda fucked and limits where I can go a lot of time depending on my finances. Wouldn't be so bad if all my fucking money wasn't going to Jorge at the moment..


The trick is most docs overprescribe like hell (plus if you snort them they go twice as far) even coming off a crazy habit you should be able to get by on 8mg max oral (4mg snorted) once you get adjusted - about a week in. But it shouldnt be hard for a doc to prescibe you 3 or 4 times the oral and 6 or 8 tyimes the snorted ( and actulaly most get by on 2-4 oral 1-2 snorted.....Basically the script is $25-$40(brand name only) and the doc visit. If you play it out right you can land like a year worth of subs for around $200.
Yeah, I'm hoping that he'll over prescribe and that if I blow them, I'll be able to stretch them out to a point that the taper won't be too brutal. I'm ready to step off this hamster wheel for awhile and get some fucking work done.. This is bullshit. It all started with a couple hydro scripts and some cheap pod tea. Next thing I know it's back to 1/2g blasts of tar in my jugular again 2-3 times a day and as much as I love a good nod, I just can't do this everyday. Too expensive in more ways than one..

Thanks for the feedback..

[tptptp]

$140 is too much.....look around and set a goal of about $6 per, some rare ones sell for $5, my doc said he doesnt know how since the manufacturer sells them for $5.25 or something like that a piece. Maybe they get a huge bulk discount.

$140 isnt wayyyy too much though, I mean youd probably save $30 elsewhere so in a pinch id just get them, but definitely look around for a better price in the future.

Cali is expensive in general I guess......if you can really quit go for it. There are programs where like 1-3 people per doc can get their suboxone free from the manufacturer (if they can prove they dont make much guess it rules you out) there are some rx discount cards that drop pills to like $4 something each etc(dont know the details myself)........paying out of pocket for health insurance for a bit or something I dunno, may be worth it....I mean even if you gotta pay $200/mo for insurance $200 for the doc (the script will then only be 25-40) so maybe $450/mo and you wont be "high" I imagine thats still alot cheaper then your H habit, and you wont be sick. If you can tough this out great, I'd just hate to see you go through it and end up coming out sick as a dog and losing you job(s) and then really be sick and fucked. Hopefully it works out for you. Having a backup plan may not be a good thing if you really gotta quit but at the same time if it gets real real bad it could be a bad thing if you lose your income.

good luck

[chopstix]

Welp that didn't work. I wasn't sick enough last Monday (because I took 20mg of Methadone Sunday am which is my fault but I didn't think it would hold me that long) so he told me to come back in. I decided to wait a couple days until I knew I would have the funds to pay for the subs and so I called the clinic to see if I could re-schedule and if I could get the Doc's email address so I could confer with him a little on my situation. He's hardly there this week, at a conference all next week and refused to give me his email address. Fuckhead. His manner was that of a Doctor who really wasn't very friendly and probably wasn't going to be willing to work with me if the detox was too quick or uncomfortable which I was really concerned about - not that I expect this to be completely pain free but I do expect a little communication but he apparently doesn't care and treats his patients like shit, guess that's what I get for not having insurance and going to a ghetto clinic. I had someone in the waiting room tell me that he's an asshole anyway, so I guess I'm back to square one..

I don't know what to do. This fucking sucks. Every sub doc seems to have a mile long waiting list and a $400 consult fee. I'm about ready to try a 21 day meth detox but methadone scares the shit out of me, the last time I was on it was a 6 month detox and it about killed me. I can get 10mg wafers for $2/each, maybe I could just do my own detox.. I'm totally blabbing here, I'll shut up now :(

[tptptp]

Welp that didn't work. I wasn't sick enough last Monday (because I took 20mg of Methadone Sunday am which is my fault but I didn't think it would hold me that long) so he told me to come back in. I decided to wait a couple days until I knew I would have the funds to pay for the subs and so I called the clinic to see if I could re-schedule and if I could get the Doc's email address so I could confer with him a little on my situation. He's hardly there this week, at a conference all next week and refused to give me his email address. Fuckhead. His manner was that of a Doctor who really wasn't very friendly and probably wasn't going to be willing to work with me if the detox was too quick or uncomfortable which I was really concerned about - not that I expect this to be completely pain free but I do expect a little communication but he apparently doesn't care and treats his patients like shit, guess that's what I get for not having insurance and going to a ghetto clinic. I had someone in the waiting room tell me that he's an asshole anyway, so I guess I'm back to square one..

I don't know what to do. This fucking sucks. Every sub doc seems to have a mile long waiting list and a $400 consult fee. I'm about ready to try a 21 day meth detox but methadone scares the shit out of me, the last time I was on it was a 6 month detox and it about killed me. I can get 10mg wafers for $2/each, maybe I could just do my own detox.. I'm totally blabbing here, I'll shut up now :(

Like I said before this isnt a sub doc I'd work with.....tell him you wont be using him and tell him why. I got my docs email.....phone # and any time a bupe patient calls he guaranatees to see them the same day, and he charges onthly not per visit so its at no benefit to him.

Theres enough bupe docs now where we have choices and as long as we continue to use docs that treat us like this the longer it will go on. Theres actually a thread on here that just popped up within the last couple days or so about some guy doing an inpatient detox in another country and would only give him like 4mg/day and he said it was the worst thing ever........thing is this sounds like the kinda doc who isnt gonna give a shit how u feel as long as he gets u detoxed not realizing that even if he does get you detoxd if you still feel like shit ur gonna run right back out to score.

oh and another thing if uve been taking more than 30mg methadone a day you cant go right to subs like you can from other drugs because its half life is so long it will send you into a horrible WD, my advice is chill on the done if you really wanna do this

[tasteuvheaven]

I dunno, ive seen one person on here claim her husband does an inpatient detox on SMALL amounts of subs for 3 1/2 days or so asfter heavy h habits and then the majority of H WD is over. I know you wanna get off the subs as soon as possible. The first couple days suck mentally but if they dont hurt physically just tough it out and get through cuz taking a bunhch extra wibt do much for you. Unfortunately as it is just about every sub doc overprescribed my guess is hes gonna put you on some ridiculously large dose or somethjing......I dunno i'd say 9 times out of 10 his "taper" is BS plan. I can say this much - dont stay on high doses of subs for long because then your wd will last forever.

When would the hardest part of your H detox be over cold turkey? thats about how long you ideally wanna take the subs.... you dont wanna be on them long....id imagine 6 days from the start of WD you'd be over the major hump?

I actually dont think 6 days is too short for an H habit DEPENDING onh ow he doses you and if he does it right (most docs dont have a fucking clue) I'll tell you one thing though regardless of what klind of taperr/yadda yadda etc. I would plan for some diahrrea severe depression, some downtime from jobs etc. dont go in like your gonna go right back to those two jobs, sadly to say I feart you';re gonna need a backup plan to keep working. who knows maybe this is a good taper.

Very few people dont get "any" or very mild WD's from sub erven after being on long times! most people hurt for a long time coming off subs unless they are on it for a couple weeks or less (and sometimes even tehn!) depends on alot of stuff. dont let them feed you up on 24mg doses or you're gonna be hurting in the end. GEt to where the subs kills your PHYSICAL WD no more and stay there.

Also believe it or not if 32mg or 24mg makes you feel like shit you probably will feel better on less.....its just hard to get used to 8mg might make you feel kinda good so your brain says more more more and you do more and feel worse....

do you wanna quit REALLY bad? if not there are MANY other options out there. Ranging from long term maintenance to 3 day to 21 day detox.

yes, it is me your talking about...my hubby has used the three day detox program in bmore and it has worked each time...i think flip has went thru it too when she used to live here...i dont think a 6 day detox is too short, because i have seen my hubby go thru a 3 day detox and he was really really bad off..i thought he would end up killing himself and the 3 day detox is the reason he is still alive, and has been off of h for a long time now..for the most part i think mentally u have to be ready and the doc has to prescribe the subs the correct way...i have another post on here that states exactly how they do the detox..sub mgs how often and everything else..im going to look for it, and ill post back when i find it..and good luck to you and getting off of h..i know its a hellish road, been down it too many times..if you need someone to talk to you can pm my hubby...he can definatly be means of support...his name on here is therigatti...good luck...and best of wishes :)

[tui]

Just finished my 5 day sub detox, and it went fine.

First 2 days yucky, but then the sun starts shining again...
Make sure you're somewhere comfortable and safe- and out of dealer-range. That helps.

You can do it.

t

[antigonemuse]

it kinda makes sense. Around here they only do a three day sub detox. I suppose 6 days is understandable cause you will have gotten thru the worst of the sickness, and you wont get so hooked on bup that youd need a long taper. I feel blessed to be in your shoes right now. I cant even get a doc to scribe bup for me (and i got a nasty habbit, in case you have not read my previous posts), and the thought of being able to come off with minimal pain... be positive friend... Im sure this will work out fine, mind over matter.

[mikells43]

im on matenence dose of 16mg. i can take 24 if i want it. im slowly going down. i dont know how they can do a short detox, the only thing i can think of is to make more money by seeing tons of people, but thats sick too. good luck guys. go to meetings too, they help me lots, and doing the other shit like sponser , homegroup and so on. but thats just me

[Narkotikon]

Yeah, I think that would seem really quick too. I've not gotten subs legally from a sub doc, but back in the middle of January I got enough to last until the end of Feb. So I was on them for about five weeks, first at 16-24mg a day, then eventually to 8mg a day. I should have tried to ween myself down further to 2mg a day, but the 8mg pills are hard to break apart equally. The w/d from them weren't that bad actually, looking back at it, not as bad as methadone that's for sure. It was more psychological with a bit of physical for me, whereas pure agonists are always more physical and a lot of anxiety, and methadone was about the same, just longer. The only complaint was the anxiety with sub withdrawal. So, I just drank a lot of bourbon to calm down.

But yeah, they dont' take long to kick in sublingualy. It takes about 5-7 minutes to start to feel the effects.

Good luck.

[tasteuvheaven]

im on matenence dose of 16mg. i can take 24 if i want it. im slowly going down. i dont know how they can do a short detox, the only thing i can think of is to make more money by seeing tons of people, but thats sick too. good luck guys. go to meetings too, they help me lots, and doing the other shit like sponser , homegroup and so on. but thats just me


This 3 day detox is definatly not out for your money...they are a state funded program...hubby has never had to pay a dime, and thank god for the program because he would not be alive without it.