Opiate Withdrawal and variety

[halo in reverse]

Hopefully this question can draw from everyone's collective experience and we can come to a consensus or rank. This in turn may help somebody crossover from a difficult drug withdrawal to a slightly (albeit still misery) better DT.

Question 1 : What is the absolute worst Opiate to withdraw (physically) from? This would include both duration of Acute withdrawal and severity.

Question 2 : What was the easiest, quickest, most painfree( realtive terms) Opiate to Physically withdraw from? Which Opiate had the shortest Acute Withdrawal duration?

Now I know it is gonna vary depending on how long you've been dependant and how high the dose was. I just want everyone to look at this ain generalities if possible.



Answer 1: For SWIM the hardest withdrawal came from MS Contin, although I've heard Methadone to be much worse.


Answer 2: for SWIM the easiest withdrawal was off of Vicoden ( and no it was not in the begining of SWIM's addiction)... I have heard that Ultram(Tramadol) is easy, but I think thats not entirely true and for me Vicoden was very mild with mild symptoms.


If we get enough answers hopefully this can help someone trying to get off the opiates. Someone kicking could wean down and switch to the easiest to withdraw from opiate.

I know all withdrawals suck and there is no easy way. I also know that it depends on the particular drugs halflife, but everyone is different. For example I have heard people say that withdrawing from Bupe sucks, others have said it's easy compared to most opiates.


Thanks, Halo

[nick]

1.Methadone.
2.There are no easy wds.


Tramadol wd....please.

[bronyraur]

Tramadol wd....please.

yeah what's the deal with that?

that's like saying you had a bad kick when you stopped eating potato chips...

[jonny-5]

nick and i have formed a consensus.

[nick]

yeah what's the deal with that?

that's like saying you had a bad kick when you stopped eating potato chips...

I wouldn't know about that bro.I've never stopped eating potato chips(we call them crisps-honestly).

and I'll never stop eating them.You'll have to pull a potato chip from my cold,dead hand.(chips are tastier than guns)

[tasteuvheaven]

Hopefully this question can draw from everyone's collective experience and we can come to a consensus or rank. This in turn may help somebody crossover from a difficult drug withdrawal to a slightly (albeit still misery) better DT.

Question 1 : What is the absolute worst Opiate to withdraw (physically) from? This would include both duration of Acute withdrawal and severity.

Question 2 : What was the easiest, quickest, most painfree( realtive terms) Opiate to Physically withdraw from? Which Opiate had the shortest Acute Withdrawal duration?

Now I know it is gonna vary depending on how long you've been dependant and how high the dose was. I just want everyone to look at this ain generalities if possible.



Answer 1: For SWIM the hardest withdrawal came from MS Contin, although I've heard Methadone to be much worse.


Answer 2: for SWIM the easiest withdrawal was off of Vicoden ( and no it was not in the begining of SWIM's addiction)... I have heard that Ultram(Tramadol) is easy, but I think thats not entirely true and for me Vicoden was very mild with mild symptoms.


If we get enough answers hopefully this can help someone trying to get off the opiates. Someone kicking could wean down and switch to the easiest to withdraw from opiate.

I know all withdrawals suck and there is no easy way. I also know that it depends on the particular drugs halflife, but everyone is different. For example I have heard people say that withdrawing from Bupe sucks, others have said it's easy compared to most opiates.


Thanks, Halo


Hey..iim going to try to help as much as i can here...i too think the easiest thing to w/d from is vicodin. I had a 2 yr addiction to em too. I think the hardest thing to w/d from is ultram. believe it or not. Me and hubby have w/d many times from percs which wasnt too easy, i think its in the middle...but we had a script of over 200 ultram and took em for a few days in a row and it was the worst w/d we ever went thru, for the both of us...except one step higher for him was when he had a h habit. Ultram was horrible. I was crying all day all night my 3rd day telling hubby i cannot do this at all. i was callin everyone around for pills and couldnt find anything. anxiety was awful, couldnt sit still and didnt have the energy to walk around..and no sleep at all for days. i had ambiens and sleep aid and nothing would make me sleep. glad when i was calling around i found nothing because when i woke up the next morning the w/d's were gone, and i woke up feeling sooo great. perc w/d's i have always been able to sleep it off most of the time and only had a few hours one night of the restless legs and arms ultram it was neverending thruout the days.


#1 worst w/d's is definatly ultram for me by far

#2 easiest w/d's (not meaning its easy in itself) is vicodin. also makes it easier if you can kinda, can't find the word im looking for but say day 1, take 10, day 2 take 9, day 3 take 8, day 4 take 7 and so on. if you have the will power to do it. and sleepaids work wonders at night with very hot baths.

I have to say good luck to anyone though that has the willpower to stop and completely go thru with it. It is very hard to be sick and know it only takes a pill to make it all go away. Benzo's work wonders for you when you wanna stop too. Good luck~:o

[RxQueen]

yeah what's the deal with that?

that's like saying you had a bad kick when you stopped eating potato chips...

:D :D :D

i thought the pringle's kick was bad.... THEN i had to quit the cheesy poofs. the damn orange colored stains on my fingers served as a constant reminder.... it was horrible.

sorry for the temp-hijack, halo.... couldn't resist the joke! now back to your regularly scheduled thread.... :rolleyes:

[nick]

We're ALL different,but......please tramadol wds...........oh man please.


Jesus are you serious?

[tasteuvheaven]

We're ALL different,but......please tramadol wds...........oh man please.


Jesus are you serious?


VERY VERY serious. I have been taking pills for years because i am prescribed them for my back. NEVER EVER have i been worst w/d's then i had with ultram. Hubby was the same way. HE has went thru h withdrawels which was a lil worst, but ultram withdrawels are something serious. weird thing is, we were only takin em for a few days, but very very large quantities. we went thru over 200 of em in 3 days. you don't have to believe it because it seems like you don't but i am not lying. Have no reason to. also warning other people because it can happen to other people too. just because its non-narcotic like percs doesn't mean anything.

[RxQueen]

weird thing is, we were only takin em for a few days, but very very large quantities. we went thru over 200 of em in 3 days.

dayyum! at that dose, i'd be way more worried about the high risk of tramadol-induced seizures! please don't take that shit in those quantities!

[TappyTibbons]

or possibly death by stomach explosion. My god.... thats a lot of trannies.....er... i mean trammies

[greasy_bear]

Methadone withdrawl seemed to last forever. My bones ached for weeks and it was months before I was able to sleep more than an hour or two at a time. My dose was only 80mgs and I was on it for less than a year.
I don't know about an easy kick. It seems to me that the physical part of withdrawing from dope, while intense, is over after the third day. No matter though, the mental/emotional withdrawl lasts a lifetime. After nine years, some days just put me right back there all over again... "Today's a perfect day to get high."

[Sitar]

Tramadol withdrawal not serious? Come on people, stop spreading bullshit.

Check out some of the online forums dedicated to people having a really hard time coming off meds like Tramadol. Effexor is structurally really similar, and now there's talk of all kinds of lawsuits because of people's horror with coming off that med (and that's an anti-depressant).

And remember, Buprenorphine was supposed to be easy to come off of, and that hasn't been the case for most people, now has it?

[Chemical_Boy]

VERY VERY serious. I have been taking pills for years because i am prescribed them for my back. NEVER EVER have i been worst w/d's then i had with ultram. Hubby was the same way. HE has went thru h withdrawels which was a lil worst, but ultram withdrawels are something serious. weird thing is, we were only takin em for a few days, but very very large quantities. we went thru over 200 of em in 3 days. you don't have to believe it because it seems like you don't but i am not lying. Have no reason to. also warning other people because it can happen to other people too. just because its non-narcotic like percs doesn't mean anything.


After three days, maybe it wasn't so much withdrawal, but that you had damn near poisoned yourselves and were feeling the effects of neuro/hepa/ands whatever else toxicity.

I could be wrong though, but unless you eat those all the time that is a fucking poisonous dose I would imagine. Even if you did eat them all the time. . .

Anyone hear froom GoddessOfRats since she fell off the board last fall?

Doses she was taking, I hope she didn't kick the bucket, you know?

[tasteuvheaven]

Tramadol withdrawal not serious? Come on people, stop spreading bullshit.

Check out some of the online forums dedicated to people having a really hard time coming off meds like Tramadol. Effexor is structurally really similar, and now there's talk of all kinds of lawsuits because of people's horror with coming off that med (and that's an anti-depressant).

And remember, Buprenorphine was supposed to be easy to come off of, and that hasn't been the case for most people, now has it?


thnx sooo much, needed a co-signer for this one..noone believed me...LOL

[alowishus]

Everything is different every time - even w/ the same drug.

Hydro could go easy one time, fucking put you under the next.
I had a week of lortabs fuck me up, then a couple yrs of OC's went like cake.

There is no a+b=c here, Steven Hawking couldn't figure it out. ;)

[nick]

Tramadol withdrawal not serious? Come on people, stop spreading bullshit.

Check out some of the online forums dedicated to people having a really hard time coming off meds like Tramadol. Effexor is structurally really similar, and now there's talk of all kinds of lawsuits because of people's horror with coming off that med (and that's an anti-depressant).

And remember, Buprenorphine was supposed to be easy to come off of, and that hasn't been the case for most people, now has it?


Man,do you think I live in a cave?


I'f you think ultram wds is worse than 'done wd or H wd than you're a ...........

I didn't say people didn't wd from ultram,but wd from it IS NOT universal and usually not severe

Oh I have no personal knowledge of tram wd,but my S.O. has kicked 'done,H and trams and when we discussed this she laughted and called it "really stupid".I've just kicked 'done and H,so I guess my opinion is meaningless.


and what the fuck has bup got to do with anything,bup is not tramadol.

[Opiyum]

Methadone or kicking junk completely sober.
I dont think any are easy but when things got me high it was easier to get off of those weaker things. Vics, percs, demerol, darvocet, tramadol.

Buprenorphine sucks the big one too. Just too damn long. Funny the two that are the easiest to maintain on are the hardest to get off of in most cases.

[tasteuvheaven]

Man,do you think I live in a cave?


I'f you think ultram wds is worse than 'done wd or H wd than you're a ...........

I didn't say people didn't wd from ultram,but wd from it IS NOT universal and usually not severe

Oh I have no personal knowledge of tram wd,but my S.O. has kicked 'done,H and trams and when we discussed this she laughted and called it "really stupid".I've just kicked 'done and H,so I guess my opinion is meaningless.


and what the fuck has bup got to do with anything,bup is not tramadol.


Question was in your opinion and in my opinion and from what i went thru w/d's from, ultram was by far the worst. I have never done h and i stated that in my post. It was worst then percs..when i came off of volumes..hydrocodone...and pill form of done i was taking. Now maybe in your opinion because you have done h it was worst. We just had a really bad experience with ultrams and i figure i would warn people because sooo many people do not take ultram serious enough sometimes. Not being rude but felt like i had to explain more. And to me and hubby when we werw sick from trammies it was serious to us, not a laughing matter.

[nick]

Question was in your opinion and in my opinion and from what i went thru w/d's from, ultram was by far the worst. I have never done h and i stated that in my post. It was worst then percs..when i came off of volumes..hydrocodone...and pill form of done i was taking. Now maybe in your opinion because you have done h it was worst. We just had a really bad experience with ultrams and i figure i would warn people because sooo many people do not take ultram serious enough sometimes. Not being rude but felt like i had to explain more. And to me and hubby when we werw sick from trammies it was serious to us, not a laughing matter.

as i said in my first post on this thread no wd is easy and i believe you,but not everyone gets this sick kicking ultram-you were just unlucky.

and if you think that hurt never get a 'done habit.

[RainMan]

80 mgs of methadone and less than a year on the program, shit that scares me... My dose is at 80 and I've had like 3 weeks on the program. I got on 'cuz I figured it'd be better than just kicking junk but now I am getting the impression that I signed myself up for a lifetime of methadone maintenance or a two week psycho-spasm of a withdrawl... I'll take the maintenance. ;)

[Sitar]

Man,do you think I live in a cave?


I'f you think ultram wds is worse than 'done wd or H wd than you're a ...........

I didn't say people didn't wd from ultram,but wd from it IS NOT universal and usually not severe

Oh I have no personal knowledge of tram wd,but my S.O. has kicked 'done,H and trams and when we discussed this she laughted and called it "really stupid".I've just kicked 'done and H,so I guess my opinion is meaningless.


and what the fuck has bup got to do with anything,bup is not tramadol.

You're seriously tripping. When did I say Tramadol WD was worse than anything? I only tried to point out that it can cause serious withdrawal for some people.

And what does bupe have to do with it; well, it's supposed to be so easy to come off of, but most people find it very difficult. If people can be mistaken about bupe, then why can't people, like yourself, be mistaken about Tramadol?

[nick]

You're seriously tripping. When did I say Tramadol WD was worse than anything? I only tried to point out that it can cause serious withdrawal for some people.

And what does bupe have to do with it; well, it's supposed to be so easy to come off of, but most people find it very difficult. If people can be mistaken about bupe, then why can't people, like yourself, be mistaken about Tramadol?

Sitar,you're one of the few folks I know who can be pedantic and wrong at the same time-a neat trick.

I put it all own to your kick,which I hope is going well.

[tasteuvheaven]

as i said in my first post on this thread no wd is easy and i believe you,but not everyone gets this sick kicking ultram-you were just unlucky.

and if you think that hurt never get a 'done habit.


whats crazy is when we lived in florida and i seen more then a few pm docs they all tried to push done pills instead of percs or oxys..i had to do it to start b4 i cold try to get anything else..and after months she still would not switch me so i tried finding a diff doc and they were all the same way. I couldnt understand why they were like that when i have heard so many bad stories about done. I dunno if the pills have the same effect as the liquid, im sure the liquid is stronger, but im also sure w/d's from done is pretty bad. I went thru w/d but wasnt on them for yrs or anything..and i had other things that helped me in the process. I do not get docs at all sometimes.

[Chemical_Boy]

whats crazy is when we lived in florida and i seen more then a few pm docs they all tried to push done pills instead of percs or oxys..i had to do it to start b4 i cold try to get anything else..and after months she still would not switch me so i tried finding a diff doc and they were all the same way. I couldnt understand why they were like that when i have heard so many bad stories about done. I dunno if the pills have the same effect as the liquid, im sure the liquid is stronger, but im also sure w/d's from done is pretty bad. I went thru w/d but wasnt on them for yrs or anything..and i had other things that helped me in the process. I do not get docs at all sometimes.


Pills or liquid, it's the dose that gets you.

[nick]

Pills or liquid, it's the dose that gets you.

Very true bro.

and never try and work out docs-it's a waste of time.Just smile and say...."yes boss."

[Sitar]

Sitar,you're one of the few folks I know who can be pedantic and wrong at the same time-a neat trick.

I put it all own to your kick,which I hope is going well.

And where was I wrong in this thread? People DON'T have withdrawal from Tramadol?

[nick]

And where was I wrong in this thread? People DON'T have withdrawal from Tramadol?

In this thread,not all folks wd from ultram and it is nothing compared with 'done wd.Oh and bringing subs up....well,that just confused matters further.

In other threads,where do you want me start?

[I-Nod]

just because its non-narcotic like percs doesn't mean anything.

Is that true? Percs are non-narcotic? Wow, learn something new everyday, I 'spose.

Back to the topic at hand... I have very limited experience w/ with-drawals from different ope's, although I've taken many, many different kind, I've only taken a few with enough repetitiveness to induce WD's.
I would say my worse was definitely Pods! Although the symptoms didn't seem as "strong", the length was horrible. I've never really rode out a WD to what I would consider, completely finished. I'd always start back up to get rid of the lethargy.
Easiest would have to of been Vic's. Although, I don't think they're all that easy, considering how many people start w/ them and move on up the ladder. I guess it was hard enough to make me go out and get my head right again.
Perc's really are non-narcotic? Not trying to be an ass... I'm really wondering if this is common knowledge and I'm too dumb to know it. heh. Guess I should read more, and take less..... NAH!! :D

[Sitar]

In other threads,where do you want me start?

I make a concerted effort on these boards to prevent the spread of bullshit, and try to only provide as much factual info as I can. I don't even respond to a post or thread unless I actually have something valid to offer.

Several people in this thread attempted to spread the bullshit that Tramadol doesn't provide a WD worth mentioning. That is total bullshit. My effort was to counter this bullshit with facts that Tramadol does indeed cause significant withdrawal. Is it more than Heroin or Methadone, probably not, but that was never the point anyway.

You stated that Tramadol withdrawal is usually not severe. Where are you getting that? Because you don't THINK it gives a strong buzz, you don't THINK the withdrawal would be very much. But I KNOW that there are many people that struggle to get off of Tramadol, just like there are many people now finding out how difficult it is to come off of Effexor, a similar drug.

And since Tramadol and Effexor have far longer half-lives than Heroin, I would actually venture a guess that some people actually WOULD find the withdrawal from those drugs worse than H. Different people have different criteria for what makes a withdrawal bad.

I try to provide accurate information here. Would you want someone to tell your mother that she'd be fine to get on Tramadol or Effexor or whatever and tell her nothing of its addictive potential and withdrawal syndrome? Probably not. So why tell someone else there's nothing to it either?

And why did I bring up bupe? Because it was mentioned in the very first post and it helped underline my original point.

[nick]

I make a concerted effort on these boards to prevent the spread of bullshit, and try to only provide as much factual info as I can. I don't even respond to a post or thread unless I actually have something valid to offer.

Several people in this thread attempted to spread the bullshit that Tramadol doesn't provide a WD worth mentioning. That is total bullshit. My effort was to counter this bullshit with facts that Tramadol does indeed cause significant withdrawal. Is it more than Heroin or Methadone, probably not, but that was never the point anyway.

You stated that Tramadol withdrawal is usually not severe. Where are you getting that? Because you don't THINK it gives a strong buzz, you don't THINK the withdrawal would be very much. But I KNOW that there are many people that struggle to get off of Tramadol, just like there are many people now finding out how difficult it is to come off of Effexor, a similar drug.

And since Tramadol and Effexor have far longer half-lives than Heroin, I would actually venture a guess that some people actually WOULD find the withdrawal from those drugs worse than H. Different people have different criteria for what makes a withdrawal bad.

I try to provide accurate information here. Would you want someone to tell your mother that she'd be fine to get on Tramadol or Effexor or whatever and tell her nothing of its addictive potential and withdrawal syndrome? Probably not. So why tell someone else there's nothing to it either?

Man,I've no problems with my mother taking tramadol-probably a better deal than the codeine she takes.

Severe or actually any meaningful wd from tramadol is rare-a freak of natutre.

and I've read A LOT of your posts and for someone trying to stop the spread of bullshit............

As I say,I put a lot of it down to your kick.

[Sitar]

Is that true? Percs are non-narcotic?

No, what they meant was that Tramadol wasn't a narcotic, like Percs are. I think they should have used a comma in that. Percocet IS a narcotic.

But they're actually wrong. Tramadol is considered a narcotic analgesic, albeit one of the weaker ones (it's not scheduled as of yet).

[nick]

No, what they meant was that Tramadol wasn't a narcotic, like Percs are. I think they should have used a comma in that. Percocet IS a narcotic.

But they're actually wrong. Tramadol is considered a narcotic analgesic, albeit one of the weaker ones (it's not scheduled as of yet).

That's because most people get zero out of it for kicks(Pain relief only) like most people don't seriously wd off it.

[Sitar]

and I've read A LOT of your posts and for someone trying to stop the spread of bullshit............

As I say,I put a lot of it down to your kick.

Well don't puss out now... SAY it!

And yes, my bupe kick is making me irritable as FUCK, but that doesn't change the fact that you are pulling the whole "WD from Tramadol is rare" thing from out of your bum. Seriously, check out some recovery forums. There are a lot of people having trouble coming off that (most have been on it for years, however), and would be offended for someone to call them a freak of nature.

It produces a withdrawal syndrome not only like other opioid analgesics, but ALSO from its SSRI activity. So it's a double whammy there. Antidepressants have their own horrid set of withdrawal for most people, so a drug that has both opioid AND antidepressant withdrawal is likely to really suck to stop using.

And with that, I say, SNAP!

[nick]

Well don't puss out now... SAY it!

And yes, my bupe kick is making me irritable as FUCK, but that doesn't change the fact that you are pulling the whole "WD from Tramadol is rare" thing from out of your bum. Seriously, check out some recovery forums. There are a lot of people having trouble coming off that (most have been on it for years, however), and would be offended for someone to call them a freak of nature.

It produces a withdrawal syndrome not only like other opioid analgesics, but ALSO from its SSRI activity. So it's a double whammy there. Antidepressants have their own horrid set of withdrawal for most people, so a drug that has both opioid AND antidepressant withdrawal is likely to really suck to stop using.

And with that, I say, SNAP!

Sure,but how many folks are rxed tramadol and how many crop up on opiate recovery sites?

See a "small" difference?

and yeah your kick is fucking with your moods.Still if you make it,it will have been worthwhile.

[Maniacal Scribble]

"At higher-than-therapeutic doses, tramadol can cause seizures (typically grand mal) and severe nausea, which could deter abuse to some extent. Tramadol has been known to produce severe withdrawl symtoms with abrupt cessation of prolonged use"

Adams, Edgar; Breiner, Scott; Cicero, Theodore; Geller, Anne; Inciardi, James; Schnoll, Sidney; Senay, Edward; Woody, George (May 2006).
A Comparison of the Abuse Liability of Tramadol, NSAIDs, and Hydrocodone in Patients with Chronic Pain (http://paincenter.wustl.edu/c/BasicResearch/documents/CiceroJPain2006.pdf)” Journal of Pain and Symptom Management 31 (5): 465-476.

What?

So I have a lot of free time to look shit like this up right now. . .

Another fun fact: Russell Jones a.k.a. Ol' Dirty Bastard died from an overdose of a combination of cocaine and tramadol

[tasteuvheaven]

Is that true? Percs are non-narcotic? Wow, learn something new everyday, I 'spose.

Back to the topic at hand... I have very limited experience w/ with-drawals from different ope's, although I've taken many, many different kind, I've only taken a few with enough repetitiveness to induce WD's.
I would say my worse was definitely Pods! Although the symptoms didn't seem as "strong", the length was horrible. I've never really rode out a WD to what I would consider, completely finished. I'd always start back up to get rid of the lethargy.
Easiest would have to of been Vic's. Although, I don't think they're all that easy, considering how many people start w/ them and move on up the ladder. I guess it was hard enough to make me go out and get my head right again.
Perc's really are non-narcotic? Not trying to be an ass... I'm really wondering if this is common knowledge and I'm too dumb to know it. heh. Guess I should read more, and take less..... NAH!! :D

mistype obviously...can't see whole post so cant tell ya what it is sposed to be..also dont feel like sifting thru all of them to find it...but graduated validictorian of medical classes..and been on a script of them for too long not to know better. thnx for bringin it to my attention ;)

[greasy_bear]

80 mgs of methadone and less than a year on the program, shit that scares me... My dose is at 80 and I've had like 3 weeks on the program. I got on 'cuz I figured it'd be better than just kicking junk but now I am getting the impression that I signed myself up for a lifetime of methadone maintenance or a two week psycho-spasm of a withdrawl... I'll take the maintenance. ;)
I'll tell you what not to do:
Don't get thrown off for turning in dirty urines.
From 80 mgs to the door in twenty-eight days is an unpleasant way to get off of MMT.

[vanilla_mlkshake2007]

Ok because I slam 'em I'd day Morphine,Ms contins, Kadiens Just Morphine and shooting up is the hardest for me

[jacky]

compare effexor and tramadols structure and reported activity....both are addictive by the way....
but compared to what?
with effexor withdrawl you get the opiate withdrawl and the anti-deppressant withdrawl, which primarily seemed to be increased anxiety, and severe postural hypotension, and severe spatial disorientation (the "SHOCK" like effect is from a dysfunction in spatial orientation)...

tramadol withdrawl does not seem to cause this spatial disorientation, at least with me...and the withdrawl is mild enough that using tramadol as a final "ween" material, or buffer, has worked for me before. getting the dose down to 5-10 milligrams a day and then cutting it was not hard to kick at all. but kicking a 500 milligram a day habit after three months of use might be another thing to think about.

better have some kratom........

I did just that and use kratom alone for months as well.

I know a few people that have not experienced much withdrawl from all sorts of opiate/opioid, some people that can just walk away from the sickness.
one guy I knew, a chronic junky....found god, not jesus, but Judaic, he converted to Judaism after the experience....he was cured...no kick. from heroin, at least a three year solid habit except for a few sick days here and there. withdrawl parlayed. I dont know much else about how that happened, but he took it as a cue to get off the stuff. said it was obviously divine intervention.

I doubt many people have actually maintained on tramadol long enough to experience the withdrawl that might precipitate from stopping. probably mostly people with prescriptions...or boorish junkys that are experimenting...would subject themselves to such.
or maybe not.....when I wasnt using junk or morphine all the time, I took tramadol on a trip with me, and me and my freind enjoyed it alot for energetic walks around town....a light opioid....
or a special anti-deppressant.

some people hate the stuff and would probably have a few siezures trying the use the stuff as their main opioid.

some people couldnt stand to take the stuff for long periods of time, monotony for the junky, tramadol seems to be a better occasional substance than long term.

[Indy]

Tramadol is less potent of an opioid than heroin or methadone. So the withdrawals won't be as bad, for the most part. But take enough tramadol and you WILL get an opioid high, it's an opioid. It affects everyone differently, and most people actually don't have problems with seizures even at huge doses, but you never know if you're one of those people. The thing is, if you're getting opiated, you're going dependent. There's no free lunch, no magic opioid that isn't addictive. It binds to the opioid receptors, so it's addictive. And the withdrawals ARE bad, serious enough for some people to get seriously hooked. It was worse for me than vicodin withdrawal. My point is this: tramadol withdrawal is NOT rare: ANYONE who takes a large enough dose for long enough will have serious withdrawals. Most people taking it for pain management have the same deal as everyone else: when they first go off it, they haven't been on it for long so it isn't -that- bad, and they don't know it's withdrawals. SO they don't know that taking more will make it go away, so they don't continue the cycle. But last i checked nobody's immune to opioid withdrawal. Take an opioid enough for long enough, and you'll have withdrawal, simple as that.

[tptptp]

We're ALL different,but......please tramadol wds...........oh man please.


Jesus are you serious?

Tramadol has a long half life & 100mg tramadol is roughly equivalent to 10mg morphine WD in pain level but it lasts longer.

[roxi*stardust]

Tramadol is a very strange substance. It does not work the same as your typical graden variey opiates like Morphine SO4 or even oxycodone. Here is some info that is very accurate regarding tramadol. Tramadol can be addictive. I personally believe it is more of a mental addiction than physical but there are reports of opioid type dependence when Tramadol was administered for long periods at medicinal doses. I have heard horro stories about people w/d-ing form it. Everyone is different, IMO some people get addicted to Motrin, it's mental. Here's is the info. It is accurate.



Mechanism of action

The mode of action of tramadol has yet to be fully understood, but it is believed to work through modulation of the GABAergic, noradrenergic and serotonergic systems. The contribution of non-opioid activity is demonstrated by the analgesic effects of tramadol not being fully antagonised by the μ-opioid receptor antagonist naloxone.
Tramadol is marketed as a racemic mixture with a weak affinity for the μ-opioid receptor (approximately 1/6th that of morphine). The (+)-enantiomer is approximately four times more potent than the (-)-enantiomer in terms of μ-opioid receptor affinity and 5-HT reuptake, whereas the (-)-enantiomer is responsible for noradrenaline reuptake effects (Shipton, 2000). These actions appear to produce a synergistic analgesic effect, with (+)-tramadol exhibiting 10-fold higher analgesic activity than (-)-tramadol (Goeringer et al., 1997).
The serotonergic modulating properties of tramadol mean that it has the potential to interact with other serotonergic agents. There is an increased risk of serotonin syndrome when tramadol is taken in combination with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (e.g. SSRIs), since these agents not only potentiate the effect of 5-HT but also inhibit tramadol metabolism.

Metabolism

Tramadol undergoes hepatic metabolism via the cytochrome P450 isozyme CYP2D6, being O- and N-demethylated to 5 different metabolites. Of these, M1 is the most significant since it has 200 times the μ-affinity of (+)-tramadol, and furthermore has an elimination half-life of 9 hours compared to 6 hours for tramadol itself. In the 6% of the population who have slow CYP2D6 activity, there is therefore a slightly reduced analgesic effect. Phase II hepatic metabolism renders the metabolites water-soluble and they are excreted by the kidneys. Thus reduced doses may be used in renal and hepatic impairment.

Adverse effects

The most commonly reported adverse drug reactions are nausea, vomiting and sweating. Drowsiness is reported, although it is less of an issue compared to other opioids. Respiratory depression, a common side effect of most opioids, is not clinically significant in normal doses. By itself, it can decrease the seizure threshold. When combined with SSRIs, tricyclic antidepressants, or in patients with epilepsy, the seizure threshold is further decreased. Seizures have been reported in humans receiving excessive single oral doses (700 mg) or large intravenous doses (300 mg). An Australian study finds that of 97 confirmed new-onset seizures, 8 were associated with Tramadol, and that in the authors' First Seizure Clinic, "Tramadol is the most frequently suspected cause of provoked seizures" (Labate 2005). Dosages of coumadin/warfarin may need to be reduced for anticoagulated patients to avoid bleeding complications.

Dependence

Some controversy exists regarding the dependence liability of tramadol. Grünenthal has promoted it as an opioid with a low risk of dependence compared to traditional opioids, claiming little evidence of such dependence in clinical trials. They offer the theory that since the M1 metabolite is the principal agonist at μ-opioid receptors, the delayed agonist activity reduces dependence liability. The noradrenaline reuptake effects may also play a role in reducing dependence.
Despite these claims it is apparent, in community practice, that dependence to this agent does occur. This would be expected since analgesic and dependence effects are mediated by the same μ-opioid receptor. However, this dependence liability is considered relatively low by health authorities, such that tramadol is classified as a Schedule 4 Prescription Only Medicine in Australia, rather than as a Schedule 8 Controlled Drug like other opioids (Rossi, 2004). Similarly, tramadol is not currently scheduled by the U.S. DEA, unlike other opioid analgesics. Nevertheless, the Prescribing Information for Ultram warns that tramadol "may induce psychological and physical dependence of the morphine-type." In addition, there are widespread reports by consumers of extremely difficult withdrawal experiences.

[Paregoric Kid]

1. ketobemidone (allegedly can be lethal)
2. kratom, tramadol, buprenorphine (I've found these easier to withdrawal from than say methadone, morphine, or oxycodone for example)

if you worry about the SNRI effects of tramadol you could taper down from tramadol and switch to prozac or some other SSRI and taper off of that so you don't have to worry about the brain shivers. the only time I felt the shocks was from effexor withdrawal but any benzo or other anti-anxiety med got rid of the withdrawal from effexor.

[tui]

heroin cold turkey, no benzos, no nuffing, that was hell, but only 3 days of hell. The hardest thing was watching people drop by and shoot up. Knowing my bank account was plump and i could get high. Actually, i kept a quarter of heroin in my purse the whole time.

A week later, anyway...

round and round on merry go round.



As for methadone w/d's.... despite the bup detox, & no matter what benzos they give, these w/d's just seem to last and last. I feel like some squished me under their heel. and i (literally) have to crawl up stairs. It's been over two weeks since my last 'done dose. AND i only jumped off from 40mgs, had decreased down from 95, to ease the pain.

methadone is gruesome shit.

t

[BigPoppy]

The easiest is codeine Swim use to drive to montreal and get hundreds of the OTC. Those W/D 's were cake,

The hardiest i personally think is hydromorphone. I was sick for weeks. Meth is pretty awful too. I hear all u guys.

[BigPoppy]

Do all you think that the Meth W/D is the worst because it is the longiest acting drug, and the body is use to being on it 24/7 with no breaks?????????