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[surdali124]

i was wondering if potents...like tagamet still work if you are snorting the opiate or does this just apply to orally

[alowishus]

I'll help you fiigure it out.
What does the Tag do in your body?

[alowishus]

Alright, I'll answer it, tag helps reduce acid in the tummy.

[Thebane]

Not sure if this is relevant but I think i read somewhere that tagamet, like grapefruit juice, blocks an enzyme that breaks down opiates. Here's a quote from a pharmacology website, maybe someone knows if this actually has to do with opiates or if the person I heard it from was wrong. "Cimetidine inhibits many of the isoenzymes of the hepatic CYP450 enzyme system" Same system as grapefruit juice, maybe? My memories not so great.

Now I'm not sure if something you snort would be broken down here anyway or if only things you take orally are. So I'm not really any help just pointing out that supposedly tagamet does more than reduce acid. Maybe someone else knows more.

[alowishus]

Well yes of course it does, I've used quite abit of it. But for the purpose of helping the OP help himself, note that tag works in the tummy.
Being able to put one and two together and coming up w/ the answer - which we all should be able to do - if the drug aint passing through your gut, tag aint gonna work, now is it?

[Hammilton]

I'm kinda high, and I'm having trouble trying to figure out what Alowishus is trying to say.

Are you saying that Tagament potentiates because of it's industry-labeled purpose? It sounded like you were saying that it potentiates because it reduces stomach acid.

If we were talking about how it potentiates Amphetamines, that'd be correct: amphetamines are very acid sensitive, and raising the pH of the stomach will potentiate oral amphetamines. Taking bicarb will potentiate snorted amphetamines, though, by raising the blood's pH a bit.

However, painkillers aren't very pH sensitive.

They are metabolized by Cytochrome P450 (i might have the number off a bit, i forget)- Cimetidine, the active in Tagamet is a Cytochrome P450 inhibitor. This enzyme is in the liver, btw.

Since most narcotics- if not all- are metabolized by this particular enzyme, taking Cimetidine, which reduces the enzyme's activity, will allow a higher peak plasma concentration, and for a longer duration of action.

Yes, it will potentiate snorted opiates, though the effect will not be as dramatic as it's effect on orally consumed opiates. Why? When opiates are consumed orally, a large percentage will flow through the liver first, aka: "first pass metabolism"- some opiates will be decimated on this first pass, like morphine, but others, like methadone, are barely touched.

By snorting you're able to more-or-less by-pass this first-pass and send the drugs straight to the brain, so morphine orally will benefit from Tagamet's use more dramatically than snorted morphine, but even still, snorted morphine will still have better effects.

It's kind of a balancing thing.

sorry this is rambly, i'm having trouble putting my phrases together and making sense of what I'm trying to say. I'm just too high. heh

[alowishus]

I'm having trouble trying to figure out what Alowishus is trying to say.

Ditto.

This enzyme is in the liver, btw.

OK.


Yes, it will potentiate snorted opiates, though the effect will not be as dramatic as it's effect on orally consumed opiates..

I didn't know this.


When opiates are consumed orally, a large percentage will flow through the liver first, aka: "first pass metabolism.

Yes of course.

By snorting you're able to more-or-less by-pass this first-pass and send the drugs straight to the brainIt's kind of a balancing thing.

What, wait, you just said for it to work it has to go through the liver, but by snorting you by pass it.....

Man you are high!! :D :p

[Hammilton]

Well, yeah: for Tagament to potentiate the drug, the drug has to go through the liver. When you snort it, you're able to bypass the first-pass metabolism that you'd have lost some of the drug to by eating it.

Still, it is going to go through the liver in the blood-stream. That's why tagament's benefit won't be as dramatic when snorted, though it will still potentiate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammilton http://forum.opiophile.org/images/gnome/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?p=125874#post125874)
I'm having trouble trying to figure out what Alowishus is trying to say.

Ditto.


lol. I'm kinda high again, so I"m sorry of this doesn't fix things up better, or if I'm just as confusing as your first post was for me?

[edarrin]

They are metabolized by Cytochrome P450 (i might have the number off a bit, i forget)- Cimetidine, the active in Tagamet is a Cytochrome P450 inhibitor. This enzyme is in the liver, btw.

Since most narcotics- if not all- are metabolized by this particular enzyme, taking Cimetidine, which reduces the enzyme's activity, will allow a higher peak plasma concentration, and for a longer duration of action.

Yes, it will potentiate snorted opiates, though the effect will not be as dramatic as it's effect on orally consumed opiates. Why? When opiates are consumed orally, a large percentage will flow through the liver first, aka: "first pass metabolism"- some opiates will be decimated on this first pass, like morphine, but others, like methadone, are barely touched.

By snorting you're able to more-or-less by-pass this first-pass and send the drugs straight to the brain, so morphine orally will benefit from Tagamet's use more dramatically than snorted morphine, but even still, snorted morphine will still have better effects.

It's kind of a balancing thing.

sorry this is rambly, i'm having trouble putting my phrases together and making sense of what I'm trying to say. I'm just too high. heh
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This is right in a very simplistic way. it's actually known as the P450 enzyme system and there are many different isoforms which act on different drugs. Tagemant inhibits some of the main ones like 3A4 and 2D6. 3A4 is a biggy form many drugs. 2D6 is involved with codeine and it is the enzyme that converts codeine to it's active form..morphine.

So you need to know which enzymes are involved with whatever opiate you have, and in which way ie inhibiting 2D6 when taking codeine will decrease the amount convered to morphine.

There are charts in pharmacology books and on the internet to find the answers to these questions. Or the search feature may conjure up something usefull.