Subutex questions.

[milky_tears]

First of all, I've been reading all about Bupe on this and other boards for ages and only just realised that Subutex and Bupe are the same things! Duuuh!

Subutex contains only buprenorphine hydrochloride.

Suboxone contains an additional ingredient called naloxone to guard against misuse.

Ok, here in the UK (where I am anyway) we only get prescribed Subutex, never Suboxone, but everyone (the junk brigade) says that:-
1- If you take your Subbies and then score, the H wont do shit.
2- If you've already used and you then take Subbies, it'll kill any kind of H that's rolling around in you.

Can anyone confirm or deny these statements?

(I've used Subutex but only when already in slight WD's... Worked very well!)

milks.

[ontario_opiophile]

I think what you said is true. I'm pretty sure if you use Subutex and then use heroin you won't feel shit and you may go into withdrawal even. And if you use H and then use Subutex after when it's still in your system I think it would probably throw you into withdrawal. I don't take Subutex, so I can't really answer your question with 100% certainty. Maybe some others can tell you more. I am just giving you info from what i've read.

[milky_tears]

No, neither will send you into wd's, it's only Suboxone that will do that.

[shaunclo]

So you are saying that the naloxone in the Suboxone is the ingredient that will send you into w/d? and not the buprenorphine itself?

[milky_tears]

Yes, I'm 100% sure about that- The Subbies MAY kill ones high, but definately not start wd's.

[oldschool?]

Yes, I'm 100% sure about that- The Subbies MAY kill ones high, but definately not start wd's.
sorry you're wrong - you see bup. is an agonist (like any opiate) as well as an antagonist (like narcanon). an antagonist will kick anything else out of the receptors and get in there itself- why narcan stops overdoses
i've read many posts about this phenomenon - doctors say to wait 24 hours after your last opiate before taking any bup. or it WILL put you into withdrawl!!
but as far as the bup blocking other things-anyone know if it "hogs" those receptors as long as methadone does??? i'll have access to it soon (here in canada) but want to know if i should consider switching to it (72 hours without methadone still gives no better result) anyone have the same experience with bup?

"In fact, in high doses and under certain circumstances, buprenorphine can actually block the effects of full opioid agonists and can precipitate withdrawal symptoms if administered to an opioid-addicted individual while a full agonist is in the bloodstream." this quote is from the american bup. website!!

[shaunclo]

Holy Shit, I didnt know that the naloxone was the culprit. Im still confused though, because when I went to the sub doc, He first gave me subutex to start me off with, I didnt wait long enough and went right into w/d's. So I went into w/d before I even took a suboxone, what do you think the reason for this is? Maybe I didnt know what to expect? Let me know what you think.....thanks

Yes, I'm 100% sure about that- The Subbies MAY kill ones high, but definately not start wd's.

[shaunclo]

Thanks OldSchool, I thought that was wrong, it didnt make sense for the fact that I went right into w/d's. FOR EVERYONE OUT THERE....Suboxone does work, but you do have to wait until you are definitley in the w/d state....thanks again

[jcdpoop]

First of all, I've been reading all about Bupe on this and other boards for ages and only just realised that Subutex and Bupe are the same things! Duuuh!

Subutex contains only buprenorphine hydrochloride.

Suboxone contains an additional ingredient called naloxone to guard against misuse.

Ok, here in the UK (where I am anyway) we only get prescribed Subutex, never Suboxone, but everyone (the junk brigade) says that:-
1- If you take your Subbies and then score, the H wont do shit.
2- If you've already used and you then take Subbies, it'll kill any kind of H that's rolling around in you.

Can anyone confirm or deny these statements?

(I've used Subutex but only when already in slight WD's... Worked very well!)

milks.

someone allready might of answered this. this was the only post i read on this page. the subutex is morphine based and has no blocker so i dont see how if you took your subutex and then H that it wouldnt do anything. and for part 2... if you do heroin and then subutex right after before feeling withdrawal symptons you get even worse withdrawals (or atleast thats how it is with suboxone). the way suboxone works if you take it right after h or with h in your body is that it knocks / blocks the herion off of the receptors. so its like going from a really high dose of heroin to a very small amount of opiates on you receptors.

[jacky]

taking any form of buprenorphine while addicted to other opiates can result in a very fucking painful experience, I have gone through this twice, now I wait at least 12 hours till taking buprenorphine if transitioning off of other opiates, even other opioids, if you can muster it wait longer.

basically I would rather suffer natural opiate withdrawl than go through buprenorphine forced detox, there is a reason that they knock people out when they are put through rapid detox, IT FUCKING HURTS MORE than "natural" withdrawl. INTENSLY.

when I come off of bup I ween my dose down to a few milligrams at least, then the next day wait as long as I can stand before dosing on whatever moderate to weak opiates I have lying around, I always seem to feel that dose, after a few weeks or months on bup it feels great to do some other opiate.

[Hammilton]

Lots and lots of idiocy in this little thread here. How many times has the "is it buprenorphine or naloxone that causes WDs?" thread been done?

I lost count. Use the fucking search idiots.

Buprenorphine is an agaonist/antagonist. Not one or the other. Both. Agonist at Mu, Antagonist at Kappa. It'll send you into the worst WDs you can imagine if you take it after you have some dope in ya.

Bupe has an extremely high affinity for the Mu receptor. It'll block anything fun from getting in.

This shit isn't rocket science. How can a search not answer these things?

And Milky tears, do you always post when you don't have a fuckin' clue what it is you're saying? 100% postive my ass.

Is it clue that you're not given a brain until you donate? hehe

[repeek]

There is good cause to be upset reading this thread, inaccurate information can cause someone serious discomfort and possible life threatening consequences if followed.

Milky_tears is “WRONG”; buprenorphine will cause precipitated withdrawl if used while other opiates in sufficient quantity are still in the blood stream. I have suffered this precipitated withdrawal and as reported by other members “it is really really bad”. I have used opiates for 40+ years and have gone through withdrawals under a host of different conditions, none of which came remotely close to how bad a precipitated withdrawal from buprenorphine was. Noloxone has a half life of about an hour, maybe less, my precipitated withdrawal from taking buprenorphine lasted thirteen hours of really really really really bad withdrawals.


I can promise it not something you want to take a chance having it happen to you.

[ZodiacKiller]

Keep in mind that most of the posts in this thread are over a year old, and the majority of the original contributors now know better. Or at least they should.

That said, this thread is full of dangerously innaccurate info, and I think it should be wiped out of existence, personally...


ZK

[repeek]

Keep in mind that most of the posts in this thread are over a year old, and the majority of the original contributors now know better. Or at least they should.

That said, this thread is full of dangerously innaccurate info, and I think it should be wiped out of existence, personally...


ZK

I second that!!

[myfaceitches]

Lots and lots of idiocy in this little thread here. How many times has the "is it buprenorphine or naloxone that causes WDs?" thread been done?

I lost count. Use the fucking search idiots.

Buprenorphine is an agaonist/antagonist. Not one or the other. Both. Agonist at Mu, Antagonist at Kappa. It'll send you into the worst WDs you can imagine if you take it after you have some dope in ya.

Bupe has an extremely high affinity for the Mu receptor. It'll block anything fun from getting in.

This shit isn't rocket science. How can a search not answer these things?

And Milky tears, do you always post when you don't have a fuckin' clue what it is you're saying? 100% postive my ass.

Is it clue that you're not given a brain until you donate? hehe



Sorry but I had to go here...You sound like you have quite a superiority complex on the internet, but that is the only place you can shield yourself from the harsh concequences of saying something like that face to face with them. Eyes to the ground. And yes, I haven't donated yet, but I think I have a good sense of what's what, or a "brain" if you will. And it makes me wonder, if I donate, will it just go to people like you? Is it worth it? There's always one. Sorry everybody.

[shaunclo]

Sorry but I had to go here...You sound like you have quite a superiority complex on the internet, but that is the only place you can shield yourself from the harsh concequences of saying something like that face to face with them. Eyes to the ground. And yes, I haven't donated yet, but I think I have a good sense of what's what, or a "brain" if you will. And it makes me wonder, if I donate, will it just go to people like you? Is it worth it? There's always one. Sorry everybody.

Hammilton is exactly right, but the way he wrote it was a little less than pleasant. You dont have to be so harsh to get your point across.

Anyways, since someone revived this post from a year ago - might as well update the suboxone/subutex myth.

Suboxone and subutex have EXACTLY the same active ingredient in them which is buprenorphine. The only difference between the 2 is that suboxone has an xtra ingredient in it which is Naloxone, which is added to make th pill "shoot proof." YOU WILL GO INTO W/D'S IF YOU TAKE EITHER ONE AFTER TAKING A FULL-AGONIST. It is the BUPRENORPHINE that causes the precipitated w/ds......period.

Like ZK said, this post is over a year old and has some wrong info in it, but this is how we all learn.....right? By sharing info amongst ourselves. Fuck, I didnt know shit about shit (scroll up and read a couple of my posts from only a year ago if you dont believe me) until I started learning and reading from everybody elses posts and knowledge here at Opiophile. There is not one person here who was born with all the knowledge they know now, we all had to start somewhere so lets try to be a little more civil.......BIATCHES!!!!

[repeek]

Welcome home Shaunclo.

[shaunclo]

Welcome home Shaunclo.

Thanks Repeek, Its good to be back, my roomies and I finally got our piece of shit laptop (if you can call it that) working again, and I have no computer access at my parents house due to some lame-ass parental control BS so hopefully I will have computer access without any future interuptions. Home sweet home

[repeek]

I got your PC, if you have a broadband conection, it is ready to go. It is a Compac desktop, not the latest, but it has windows 2000 and is stable as a rock; plus it's yours.

[madnesscult]

Glad to see you back Shaun!

[geanine.aurora]

Shaun, don't know you but have read about your situation and I'm glad you're back. Unless death has chosen you there are always options. You can always choose to die any day but there are so many other possiblities. Your life counts and we're all set for the end anyway. As much as possible try to enjoy the ride, the ups and downs. You never know what's just around the corner.
As far as your court case goes I can't imagine anyone pressing charges in a situation like this. I sure hope your court sees it this way.

[madnesscult]

Sorry but I had to go here...You sound like you have quite a superiority complex on the internet, but that is the only place you can shield yourself from the harsh concequences of saying something like that face to face with them. Eyes to the ground. And yes, I haven't donated yet, but I think I have a good sense of what's what, or a "brain" if you will. And it makes me wonder, if I donate, will it just go to people like you? Is it worth it? There's always one. Sorry everybody.

I don't think I've encountered anyone on this site with a superiority complex, including Hammilton. He was just annoyed, and understandably so. It gets really irritating when people post questions without searching for other threads on the topic, especially when there have been a large number of previous threads (like on this topic). As for his comment about not having a brain until you donate, I believe it's due to the fact that n00bs tend not to use the search feature, and often don't read many of the posts in a thread before replying, until they've been around a while (and presumably have by that time donated).
If and when you do donate, your money wouldn't go to any of the members. The donations go to bi11i and Jacky, the founders/administrators, for the upkeep and improvement of the site.

You shouldn't judge people so easily. If you had looked into Hammilton's other posts, you would see that he isn't the bastard he comes off as in this one post. Because I know him, and why he was angry, it's you who appears more of the jerk (no offense meant).