"Dig drivers violate law: Methadone prohibited by federal drug rules" - Boston Herald

[bi11i]

An article forwarded on by a commercially licenses truck driver slash board member slash Methadone Maintainer. What do you think? Should truck drivers and other licensed professionals be prohibited from doing their job if taking Methadone?

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=101688&format=


A trucker hauling stone for a Big Dig contractor spotted getting doses of the heroin crave-reducing drug methadone before work was violating federal law, officials said.

Federal laws that govern commercial driver licenses ban operating under the influence of controlled substances but make exceptions for prescribed drugs that will not adversely affect the driver's ability to safely operate." The law explicitly says that the exception does not include methadone - a controversial narcotic prescribed by doctors to treat heroin and OxyContin addicts.

"It's a violation of federal law," Registry of Motor Vehicles spokeswoman Amie O'Hearn said of driving a truck on methadone.

CDL licenses are required for vehicles over 26,000 pounds or that carry hazardous materials or more than 16 people.

The Herald reported this week that many Big Dig workers hit the methadone clinic before heading to the job site. Among them was a trucker for Camdele Trucking spotted getting methadone several mornings before hauling stone in an 18-wheeler for Aggregate Industries, a company that supplies the Big Dig with concrete. Aggregate spokeswoman ancy Sterling said Camdele officials are responsible for the driver. Camdele officials did not return a call.

"It is not an Aggregate Industries Northeast employee nor is it our vehicle," Sterling said of the driver. "AINE expects all of our vendors to comply with every relevant ederal regulation."

Aggregate has already come under fire from Attorney General Tom Reilly and federal officials for allegedly supplying the $14.6 billion project with poor-quality cement and shoddy record-keeping.
Big Dig spokesman Doug Hanchett said vendors such as Aggregate and their subcontractors are responsible for policing their own drivers.

"The vendors that send us supplies, we're not responsible for the actions of their employees," Hanchett said. He added that the Big Dig tests heavy equipment operators and mployees in accordance with federal law.

The safety record on the project is exemplary," Hanchett said
--
Stephanie Almeida
Community Organizer
Somerville Cares About Prevention
617-828-9184

[SuperJunky]

This is absurd. People always think if your on drugs you don't have a job. The stereotype is showing to be untrue so I guess to keep it alive and well they'll pass laws to make it so. There are a lot of people that use methadone to get high but I'm sure there are at least as many that use it to get their lives back together. Chances are this guy is just maintaining on methadone. He's under the influence of methadone but that does NOT mean that he is intoxicated or in any way incapable of performing his job safely. What the hell was going on here, did some ass hole reporter fallow people from the methadone clinic to see what job they held? Or was he there getting his methadone to get trashed and saw a truck driver and thought, I shouldn't be driving so neither should he. As far as I'm concerned the person that did this should be charged with stalking, fired from his job and be deported from the country on a leaky ship. And if the whistle blower here is on methadone as well he should be imprisoned until he cold turkeys the withdrawal and then shot. WTF! :mad:

[ontario_opiophile]

This is ridiculous. I take Methadone for pain caused by a few chronic illnesses and health problems. It doesn't impair my judgement or my capability to operate a vehicle. Before Methadone I was unable to function at all. I could only lay in bed and watch TV. Other people in my family take it for pain and they can drive and function properly as well and one of them has never had an accident in 50 years of driving and he's been on Methadone for 8 years. So figure that one out.

Don't get me wrong. I think that SOME people may be a risk to society and to others on the road if they are maintained on Methadone. There could be the odd truck driver who is on maintenance who is on too high a dose and who has a heavy buzz everyday. There may be the odd person who is on the "nod" 24/7 and of course I wouldnt want them operating a motor vehicle or do anything else that would harm anyone else or themselves. For the most part, people on Methadone maintenance are on stable doses and they are in their right mind and just as capable as anyone else, including, people who are not on maintenance. I would share the roadways with MMT patients as long as they were qualified to do the job and on a stable dose of methadone. I think that people who are currently using all kinds of opiates all day long while on MMT should be banned from driving until they are using only methadone.

Maybe everyone who uses anti-depressants should be banned from driving or working. Perhaps the office caffeine junkie should be forced to take the bus to and from work because he's under the influence. Maybe diabetics should all have their licences taken away. Most medications cause some form of impairment. Someone who just drank 12 cups of coffee could be a force to reckon with while on the road. I sure as hell wouldnt want to be near them. Go take their licence pigs! This all comes down to evil assholes trying to pick on junkies who are trying to make a decent life for themselves and their families.

Now that I think of it. Those glazed donuts the pigs eat could cause a temporary spike in blood sugar and send them into a tailspin and impair the hell out of their little drug-naive bodies. I think the solution is to get rid of all those fucking old geezer politicians and republicans and then a normal country will start to appear again and this bullshit hating against good people will stop.

[JunkYardSaint]

Time and time again studies show that Methadone, as used in treatment schedules for narcotic dependence produces no significant effect on measures of human skills performance. Epidemiological data are contradictory though the suggestion is that the involvement of the narcotic analgesic drugs in automobile accidents is unlikely to be a source of significant concern. That there are people guilty of pursuing these cases, and the fact that it remains unlawful, proves that most people continue to hold the prejudice that methadone patients are 'getting high" or as so many like to put it "substituting one drug for another". Stable methadone patients are neither high nor are their motorskills and ability to drive or operate machinery comprimised. It is sad to see such ignorance prevail.

[opiobsessed]

This reminds me of how the F ing dea is trying to destroy America's right to enjoy a pain free, liveable life. I get so enraged the more I read about how this country is going to hell fast. Vote hicktard out of office and save our freedom people!!!!!!!! before its too friggin late! I can't believe the sad state of the US these days. Ever since useless got into office this country went right in the toilet! I would vote a woman into office if she supported drug use!! anything is better than Bush:mad:

[xxanxx]

This is ridiculous. I take Methadone for pain caused by a few chronic illnesses and health problems. It doesn't impair my judgement or my capability to operate a vehicle. Before Methadone I was unable to function at all. I could only lay in bed and watch TV. Other people in my family take it for pain and they can drive and function properly as well and one of them has never had an accident in 50 years of driving and he's been on Methadone for 8 years. So figure that one out.

Don't get me wrong. I think that SOME people may be a risk to society and to others on the road if they are maintained on Methadone. There could be the odd truck driver who is on maintenance who is on too high a dose and who has a heavy buzz everyday. There may be the odd person who is on the "nod" 24/7 and of course I wouldnt want them operating a motor vehicle or do anything else that would harm anyone else or themselves. For the most part, people on Methadone maintenance are on stable doses and they are in their right mind and just as capable as anyone else, including, people who are not on maintenance. I would share the roadways with MMT patients as long as they were qualified to do the job and on a stable dose of methadone. I think that people who are currently using all kinds of opiates all day long while on MMT should be banned from driving until they are using only methadone.

Maybe everyone who uses anti-depressants should be banned from driving or working. Perhaps the office caffeine junkie should be forced to take the bus to and from work because he's under the influence. Maybe diabetics should all have their licences taken away. Most medications cause some form of impairment. Someone who just drank 12 cups of coffee could be a force to reckon with while on the road. I sure as hell wouldnt want to be near them. Go take their licence pigs! This all comes down to evil assholes trying to pick on junkies who are trying to make a decent life for themselves and their families.

Now that I think of it. Those glazed donuts the pigs eat could cause a temporary spike in blood sugar and send them into a tailspin and impair the hell out of their little drug-naive bodies. I think the solution is to get rid of all those fucking old geezer politicians and republicans and then a normal country will start to appear again and this bullshit hating against good people will stop.I also take methadone for chronic pain, and it helps me to live a semi-normal life; without it I would not be able to function. Mind if I ask exactly what you take it for?

[lolleedee]

This is sooooo stupid!!!! It would be ok for the truck driver to be driving undr the influence of oxycontin if he had a script for it, right? Well, last time I checked, if he is getting his meth from a clinic, then a Dr. prescribed it for him too so what is the difference? He is probably safer than most drivers out there! I think more people "nod" on the road from lack of sleep than from drugs, too! When is this country going to come to its senses reguarding the use of medication to treat pain and addiction? I also thought that the main purpose of MMT is to help you get your life back. Well, how are people like the truck driver in the article going to do that if there are road blocks thrown in their way regarding employment? grrrrrrrrrrrr!!! This crap makes me so mad!:mad:

[duke_nemmerle]

This is sooooo stupid!!!! It would be ok for the truck driver to be driving undr the influence of oxycontin if he had a script for it, right? Well, last time I checked, if he is getting his meth from a clinic, then a Dr. prescribed it for him too so what is the difference? He is probably safer than most drivers out there! I think more people "nod" on the road from lack of sleep than from drugs, too! When is this country going to come to its senses reguarding the use of medication to treat pain and addiction? I also thought that the main purpose of MMT is to help you get your life back. Well, how are people like the truck driver in the article going to do that if there are road blocks thrown in their way regarding employment? grrrrrrrrrrrr!!! This crap makes me so mad!:mad:
me too lollee, I'm infinitely frustrated with the drug policy in this country. I wish so much that I Had the means to move somewhere that's more free

[zombiewoof23]

The only issue I see is whether workers, including truck drivers, are working "under the influence" of any substance, including alcohol. We all know the difference between somebody who is taking a medication responsibly and somebody who is intoxicated. I don't know that the current drug policy follows the same logic or wants to acknowledge the difference. Working intoxicated in definitely wrong, especially when you put peoples lives at risk. Discriminating against somebody who is honestly trying to get their life back together is not even close to being ethical. Maybe, just maybe, there is a different reason for it. If they take a "junkie's" livelyhood away, maybe we will wash away with the rain. It may be easier to continue a junkie lifestyle than to function in today's society with some of the hurdles that seem to be intentionally put into place. What keeps that same employee from getting intoxicated on something else like alcohol? The alcohol is not picked up during the drug screening process, and is not prescribed or used for treatment of any kind. It also happens to be readily available. It doesnt matter what drug you are doing if your soul purpose is to get intoxicated, you shouldnt be in a position where you are putting peoples lives at risk.

[blackdog]

all these pencil pushers down at the state buildings need to see is an article like this and they will come up with some more hoops for us to jump thru.bad enoughf with my cdl that even when i'm in mycar,just because i have a cdl that im subjected to a less level of dwi as compared to a regular driver without cdl endorsement even when in my car . okay here goes one more time ..because i have a cdl whendriveing if i'm chked out for dwi one beer will get me screwd fer dwi but if the next guy who doesnt have a cdl endorsement on his license he,s alowed 2 cans a beer or drinks do u understand what im trying to say and now i just got three pages from the motor vehicle dept saying that if anyone with cdl gets more then two summons in a six month period for any motor vehicle infractions we will lose/get suspended fer 6 months and so on it get worse as you progress.
hey drug addicts or not whatever.truckers are some of the safest drivers on the roads esspecially when in there cars. we know what can happen if things get out of hand.shit i haull 80,000 lbs of materials thruout my day and there aint too many second chances if u fuck up. we see firsthand what happens to those who fuck up big time ,even small time life is a privlidge oh well my rant is over for now peace all da/dawg:cool:

[zombiewoof23]

i agree blackdog that all drivers across the board should have the same DUI test. One beer isn't that much different than two. We've all been guilty of driving under the influence I would suspect. We just all haven't been caught. There's also different degrees of being trashed. Some of us know better than to drive after going over our personal limit. That is still debatable. I personally can't afford a DUI, because driving is my livelyhood, so I choose not to drive under the influence anymore. A good friend of mine before he died, wrecked 3 cars in a matter of 2 months while he was on H. It seemed like common sense to me that maybe, just maybe that was a bad idea to shoot and drive at the same time. But unfortunately for him, he risked shooting and driving and ended up on the losing end every time. The kid was brilliant, but lacked common sense. As far as methodone goes you shouldn't be nodding out while driving, but then again you shouldnt be nodding out period, whether its from lack of sleep or whatever. I would also have to agree that the professional drivers tend to be better drivers over all. Still can't drive when youre asleep at the wheel though. It all goes back to "abuse" or "maintenance." How could a company or the gov't tell the difference between the two? That would be the next question. Every junkie is different.

[blackdog]

amen zombiewolf i hear ya i did!!!!!!you sound like a professional truckdriver like myself. professional meaning proficient at what one does fer a living????or while earning a living wink- wink /nudge -nudge:D peace da/dawg:cool:

[poppy]

http://forum.opiophile.org/images/icons/icon6.gif Re: "Dig drivers violate law: Methadone prohibited by federal drug rules" - Boston Herald
I pretty much agree with majority view here in that as long as the methadone is prescribed to the person driving for maintainence or pain or whatever rather than bought on the black market for intoxication then its ok. I take methadone every day and it has never wasted me in the way gear does, or filled the psychological hole the heroin has left behind (hence I'm still not clean)it just seems to stop me withdrawing and lets me lead a normal life or as normal a life as possible
I'm not sure what the law is in the uk but it doesn't look good. My boyfriend was banned from driving for drink driving which he deserved and I don't condone in any way shape or form, anyway at the end of the ban he had to pay for a medical to prove that he was no longer an alcoholic,(which he isn't). Any way he duly went for this medical, which cost about £80 to include the new license, where they gave him the once over took blood etc, and at the moment we still havent heard back. Its been a while so I suspect that they aren't going to give him his licence back because of the meth. We've asked about and it seems to be a grey area. Our drug worker is looking into it and she thinks that if the doctor who prescribes his methadone ok's him to drive and informs the DVLA of her decision that he will get his license back. We'll just have to wait and see. Aside from this his job is as a building site forklift driver (one of those massive yellow tonka toy looking things not a little warehouse one) which also requires a license which he has just had updated luckily at the moment they don't screen building site workers for drugs, so at least he's still got his job.laters Poppyx

[Coddfish]

But it's ok to be on amphetamines? (I have heard that is quite common with truckers.) The problem with figuring out whether a person is using or abusing goes to the heart of privacy concerns in this country. It connot be done without raiding medical records or spying--unless it's volunteered, I suppose.
Two things:the f'n done clinics need to do their F'N JOBS!! and help people get stable and where they want to be. If that were the real case, then these issues would slowly fade. As it is, my state has seen a rash of auto accidents over the past few years that have been attributed to done. I actually personally know of one person who nodded out at the wheel who was on a very high dose just a few weeks after signing on to a clinic. That clinic is notorious for pushing really high doses onto people that don't need them and don't want them. She made the papers, and it made every done patient look like a pariah.
And, two: the gov't needs to butt out of medical issues that are between a docter and patient. Politicians don't know anything more about this-- or anything else!--than the rest of us. (except corruption maybe) Even when people are following the letter of the law, these buttnuts in office f with them. If the clinics would do their jobs, things would eventually get better. Would it be so bad if drug treatment professionals helped politicians make informed decisions on drug policy? The professional input couldn't make things much worse than they are. Maybe that would push the government into thowing us lowly addicts an f' bone.

[Opiyum]

In the interest of being different Im going to say that I support this Act whole-heartedly. I see nothing wrong with it at all. What freedoms have they taken? Whose privacy have they violated?

Take this seriously and I will be terribly disappointed.

[Canis aureus]

Methadoner is not incabable to drive a druck... indeed studies indicate almost reverse: methadone patiets are well cabable to do things which involves one to do things fast and concentrated. Stabilized maintenance patients don't nod...

[Opiyum]

I worked in highway construction for three summers starting when I was eightteen. They were mostly Interstate jobs working with asphault.

Anyway I voted undecided. I just cant wrap my head around it. I would say that a violation of privacy is bad in any circumstance but I wouldn't want to be the guy guiding trucks in front of the miller or the guy signaling the "hot trucks" back into the hopper. Especially if the guy driving the truck is nodding out.

I remember one time we were doing a job that only involved one truck that day. It was a small two lane state route road job that at the time only involved milling which is done by a big maching that rips the old asphault up into a conveyer and then is shoots it into an empty truck while in motion.
So we came to a spot where we needed to load up a back hoe that was to the side of the road that, once the bucket was full, would dump the millings(ground asphault) into the waiting Tri-axle truck.
Well...I was down below the level of the road with another guy shoveling millings into the bucket of the hoe when all of the sudden everyone started screaming . In that kind of work that means something really fucked up either just happened or is going to happen.
So what almost happened was the guy sitting in the truck fell asleep at the wheel and his foot came off the clutch or the brake, whichever, and began rolling towards the edge of the road that I was underneath. I had ample time to get out of the way but it was okay cause just as his back tire was about to go over the side of the road he was awakened buy someone who jumped up and smacked the side of the door with their fist.

He wasn't on opiates he was just an old man who nodded off(no offense to the older members). So I guess this is an example that accidents can happen without drugs involved but it doesn't say, to me at least, that the risk of an accident isn't greater when on Meth.
I know that the one month that I did the meth clinic bullshit I was nodding out all day.

Still indecisive as I was..

do things which involves one to do things fast and concentrated. Stabilized maintenance patients don't nod...

What about when you have to sit in a truck for half hour periods of time doing absolutely nothing? Same goes for any heavy equipment operator there are always long periods where you have to wait untill you can do your job. Or you only do a little at a time.
I can remember sitting on equipment passing out during breaks and I wasn't useing at work at this point in my life. The vibration/rocking of the trucks engine plus the huuummmmmm, that it makes, can put you right to sleep.


I guess the last thing I can say is that all, Union, heavy equipment operators and/or truck drivers are tested for drugs either randomly or when they are contracted out to different companies, as most are, they get tested by each individual comany for insurance purposes so their Privacy has already been violated....
...Actually now that I think of it. Is methadone like Beuprinorphine in that it wont show up on standard drug tests? Is it one of those things that they have to be specificallly looking for? If so then that kills the last point I was trying to make.

[zombiewoof23]

I worked in highway construction for three summers starting when I was eightteen. They were mostly Interstate jobs working with asphault.

Anyway I voted undecided. I just cant wrap my head around it. I would say that a violation of privacy is bad in any circumstance but I wouldn't want to be the guy guiding trucks in front of the miller or the guy signaling the "hot trucks" back into the hopper. Especially if the guy driving the truck is nodding out.

I remember one time we were doing a job that only involved one truck that day. It was a small two lane state route road job that at the time only involved milling which is done by a big maching that rips the old asphault up into a conveyer and then is shoots it into an empty truck while in motion.
So we came to a spot where we needed to load up a back hoe that was to the side of the road that, once the bucket was full, would dump the millings(ground asphault) into the waiting Tri-axle truck.
Well...I was down below the level of the road with another guy shoveling millings into the bucket of the hoe when all of the sudden everyone started screaming . In that kind of work that means something really fucked up either just happened or is going to happen.
So what almost happened was the guy sitting in the truck fell asleep at the wheel and his foot came off the clutch or the brake, whichever, and began rolling towards the edge of the road that I was underneath. I had ample time to get out of the way but it was okay cause just as his back tire was about to go over the side of the road he was awakened buy someone who jumped up and smacked the side of the door with their fist.

He wasn't on opiates he was just an old man who nodded off(no offense to the older members). So I guess this is an example that accidents can happen without drugs involved but it doesn't say, to me at least, that the risk of an accident isn't greater when on Meth.
I know that the one month that I did the meth clinic bullshit I was nodding out all day.

Still indecisive as I was..



What about when you have to sit in a truck for half hour periods of time doing absolutely nothing? Same goes for any heavy equipment operator there are always long periods where you have to wait untill you can do your job. Or you only do a little at a time.
I can remember sitting on equipment passing out during breaks and I wasn't useing at work at this point in my life. The vibration/rocking of the trucks engine plus the huuummmmmm, that it makes, can put you right to sleep.


I guess the last thing I can say is that all, Union, heavy equipment operators and/or truck drivers are tested for drugs either randomly or when they are contracted out to different companies, as most are, they get tested by each individual comany for insurance purposes so their Privacy has already been violated....
...Actually now that I think of it. Is methadone like Beuprinorphine in that it wont show up on standard drug tests? Is it one of those things that they have to be specificallly looking for? If so then that kills the last point I was trying to make.

Opiyum buddy......you make no sense.

[Opiyum]

Thankyou Zombie. As you already know I really truely appreciate that. For if what I said did make all the sense in the world well...this he......it would be the most terrifying experience of my life.

[Substance-P-Inhibition]

Going through withdrawal slows your reaction time, it's a known fact, they're better off on methadone than either nothing or dope. No one would know if they were on dope, because all they would have to do is stop by a house before going to work.

[jacky]

NO FUCKING WAY.
unless every other medication/users of, like benzo's or standard pain relievers are also targeted this way.

when your Dr prescribes pain killers, he can tell you not to drive. when you display tolerance to the drug over a few days/weeks, then he can legally tell you that it is OK to drive.

can you imagine the mistakes made when people are not feeling well due to the choice of making money or taking their medication. if they forgoe medication then similiar dysfunction could occur.

basically you trade ones persons safety for another.

methadone is also used as a standard pain reliever, not just given to "junkies" at clinics. I know a few people that needed methadone for back pain, these people werent junkies, I wonder if people other than opiate replacement therapy patients would even be looked at?

[AWOL]

Crap, I meant to click no but I watched as I hit submit that I hit yes and going back it said that I had already voted :( Now I skrewed up the pole.

[AWOL]

What keeps that same employee from getting intoxicated on something else like alcohol? The alcohol is not picked up during the drug screening process.

Alcohol is picked up in the test, drivers at my work get random tested alllllll the time (I'm not a driver), and after any accident their fault or not. Alcohol is always tested for and many drivers have been canned for coming in to work after a night of drinking, even though they weren't currently intoxicated. They still broke the company contract that they signed when they were given employment and so the company cans them. Lost a buddy that way. As a side note, benzos are also tested for.

This is sooooo stupid!!!! It would be ok for the truck driver to be driving undr the influence of oxycontin if he had a script for it, right?

Not at my work.




I'm prescribed seroquel and it's very possible that one day I could be totally out of it and not capable of even driving my car to work, but I'd still pass said test get in a truck (if I were a driver) and wreck it into somebody.

But drivers do have to sign an agreement when they are given a job and if that agreement says "we'll give you employment but don't have any of these substances in your system" then I dunno, maybe the drivers can't really complain too much. They knew what the contract said when they signed it. If I signed for a loan at one of those ridiculous loan places even though I'd get totally totally raped, I couldn't really justify my complaining because I signed the paper. I read it, I agreed to it, I signed it.

My friend is a pilot and to be a pilot you can't even be treated for mental illness. I couldn't be a pilot because I've taken Seroquel. I don't agree with that worth shit but if I hypothetically wanted to be a pilot I'd have to agree to their terms to get the job and that's the real issue here I think. It's not about the medication (even though it should be) it's about their violation of contract.

I still vote no, but if they signed the papers I don't know if they can complain.

[Duckfeet]

This is such a tough call. Because the last job I had before I retired was longhaul trucker. I worked out of South Dakota for a few years, then out of Alabama. The first place I told the truth, kind of, that I was an ex-con, and they were a nice small company, and gave me a chance. I was desperate, had used the last money I could squeeze out of credit card to go to trucking school, and then found out probably nobody would hire me if I told the truth: two felony convictions, burglary and posses. of sched. II's (D;s). An ex-con is up against it. I mean, I'm not looking for sympathy, just saying that, to survive, a man in his forties, trucking was one of the last places a guy could start over. but the computers, all that, you can't *really* start over, like you could, say, twenty-thirty years ago.

Second company I flatout lied, after first few I tried to hire on with told me no way anybody w/my record would get hired. So I do what I got to do, without hurting others, to scuffle by. I'm not going to starve to death, just to get a nice military burial w/taps played, fuck that.

Having said that, if I get *caught*, it's on me, I don't snivel. I gotta lie to survive, I get caught, I don't cry about "unjust systems, republican party, etc."--I made choices a long time ago, they got consequences now, unpleasant maybe...

But I was a good, honest, hardworking trucker, always delivered tough loads, from hauling meat to Hunt's Point in the Bronx, to South LA, Compton, and all places in between. I was what they called a "chicken hauler," beepbeep, for any of you truckers out there, haha...

The trouble is, one bad apple--actually my CB handle: "Bad Apple" ;-) --screws it up for everybody, and people panic, and more laws get passed, and I wonder if *any* totally honest person could ever get a trucking job, anywhere. "Have you ever used drugs?",,, "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?" etc., etc.

Most truckers I know weren't saints. Most of us *had* to cheat on our logbooks (whole, long, irritating topic, all by itself)...also, you start telling a dispatcher you can't deliver 'cuz you are tired, or are "out of hours," and you'll quit getting work. Really! The old rampant use of methamphetamines, black beauties, and all that is over. Between mandatory unexpeted piss tests, and electronic tracking of fuelstops and other shit, it's not as crazy as it once was.

But some poor bastard on methadone: what's he supposed to do?" Hell, if he told the truth he'd be lucky to get a job flipping burgars. Companies won't hire you even if they *want* to, because if something does happen, it's the *company* that gets sued, so it's just a "bottom line" thing, not a moral issue. I actually sympathize with the companies, since anytime someone stubs their toe, they sue, and big truck conpanies are great targets for lawyers. But I sympathize more with the driver, the last half-assed independant working man in USA, caught between various dishonest pressures, trying to survive. A totally honest longhaul trucker would never be able to leave the dock. Enough.

[AWOL]

^^ I lie at work and outside work just about everyday. I pass the UA's cause I have some pee in a bottle shit and when the random UA's start flying I've got a microwave and a fridge with water in my office. I lie, pass the UA, keep my job. I don't think it's any of the companies fucking business whatsoever but if I got canned over it, well as you said I wouldn't snivel. I know the rules, I break them. I'm sure the companies answer to methadone maint would be use subs. To chronic pain people, it would be too bad. Sad world we live in, and I do what I gotta do to get by and yeah sometimes shit happens. But then that could really just be the moto for life itself, no? Shit happens. Fuck em all.


On a side note who says breaking the law is such a bad thing anyways? All the founding fathers were lawbreakers unmatched by many in history. Harriet Tubman? Law breaker. Rosa Parks? Law breaker. Now all these people are celebrated and most have holidays honoring their law breaking.

[blackdog]

wow deja vue all over again. this thread is over a year old.but if you read the original post the situation was about a driver/methadone clinic client that just so happens to work for a trucking company that hauls materials that get delivered to this big dig federal funded transportation project in boston. and so it was noticed by some nosey assed bastard that apparently doesn't have anything better to do then to complain about it. and it wouldn't surprise me if this person was also a client at same methadone clinic and envious and jealous of this truckers good fortune to have a decent job and also to be doing the right thing by detoxe or maintain himself on methadone. hey there's plenty of meds that fall into catagory of do not drive or operate heavy machinery when blah blah blah. what are those exact word?
anyway come on now peeps relax and don't sweat the small stuff. either your able or not and you are the final word on that and thats that pthww
dawgg:p

[Paregoric Kid]

fuckers I was thinking about getting a CDL but looks like I'll need a whizinator first.

[nick]

http://forum.opiophile.org/images/icons/icon6.gif Re: "Dig drivers violate law: Methadone prohibited by federal drug rules" - Boston Herald
I pretty much agree with majority view here in that as long as the methadone is prescribed to the person driving for maintainence or pain or whatever rather than bought on the black market for intoxication then its ok. I take methadone every day and it has never wasted me in the way gear does, or filled the psychological hole the heroin has left behind (hence I'm still not clean)it just seems to stop me withdrawing and lets me lead a normal life or as normal a life as possible
I'm not sure what the law is in the uk but it doesn't look good. My boyfriend was banned from driving for drink driving which he deserved and I don't condone in any way shape or form, anyway at the end of the ban he had to pay for a medical to prove that he was no longer an alcoholic,(which he isn't). Any way he duly went for this medical, which cost about £80 to include the new license, where they gave him the once over took blood etc, and at the moment we still havent heard back. Its been a while so I suspect that they aren't going to give him his licence back because of the meth. We've asked about and it seems to be a grey area. Our drug worker is looking into it and she thinks that if the doctor who prescribes his methadone ok's him to drive and informs the DVLA of her decision that he will get his license back. We'll just have to wait and see. Aside from this his job is as a building site forklift driver (one of those massive yellow tonka toy looking things not a little warehouse one) which also requires a license which he has just had updated luckily at the moment they don't screen building site workers for drugs, so at least he's still got his job.laters Poppyx
Hi Poppy,I've had trouble with driving as well.I don't think it's specificaly against the law,but it's as you say a grey area.When I applied for a provisional license I discovered addicts are lumped in with the handicapped and those of poor eye sight.Even if you get through this insurence companies will charge huge premiums.It's hard to drive legally and take dope in the UK.Let me know what happens please.

[Duckfeet]

fuckers I was thinking about getting a CDL but looks like I'll need a whizinator first.

It's still a good trade. I keep my classA CDL updated. If I *had* to go back to work, it's still the best way I know to legally make a buck, where nobody is fucking with you or breathing down your neck.

And there are ways, around the obstacles. I was pretty steady on heroin my first few years. Never an accident, never a ticket. And the random piss tests, well, keep a bottle around of untampered piss, you always got an hr or so notice, when u got to take the test, way to stall, if u need to warm it up to body temp....no big deal.

And it may not be spiritually correct...but I just lie on apps, fuck it. Nobody really will hire an ex thief and a junky, even if you *are* all reformed and rehabilitated...they could give a shit less. Now I know how they really do background checks--not NCIC, like I used to think--it's a wonder they ever catch anybody. *Driving* record and convictions are harder to conceal. they never caught my felonies, but always caught a speeding ticket I lied about. And still hired me, just scolded me for lying about past...

[blackdog]

fuckers I was thinking about getting a CDL but looks like I'll need a whizinator first.
well p/k if ya want access to an outdoor type of job go for it. just stay away from the larger type national companies that are all mumbo-jumbo regulated by pencil-pushers and such. they is da 1's that have the gps units on ya and piss test and bitch and moan if ya take a second too long at a rest area.look fer a small owner operated trking type company tree service excavator. there usually used to drug addicts and alcholics and as long as you come to work on time and dont fuck up they'll be happy ta have ya!
peace da/dawgg:p

[Duckfeet]

well p/k if ya want access to an outdoor type of job go for it. just stay away from the larger type national companies that are all mumbo-jumbo regulated by pencil-pushers and such. they is da 1's that have the gps units on ya and piss test and bitch and moan if ya take a second too long at a rest area.look fer a small owner operated trking type company tree service excavator. there usually used to drug addicts and alcholics and as long as you come to work on time and dont fuck up they'll be happy ta have ya!
peace da/dawgg:p

Yeah, first company I worked for up in South Dakota was like that: a small company, kind of family owned, truckers were mostly farmers from up there, that had trouble keeping the farm going, so they trucked half the year. I had rode back from Sturgis, and was all just about broke and all the way useless in Sioux Falls, and through a lucky break I had scrounged enough money to go to trucking school, and this little company hired my, and all they wanted was loyalty and that I delivered the loads on time, and I stuck with'em until they got bought, a few years later. They treated me right. But smaller companies often have trouble competing with the big companies, and can't always give that extra penny per mile, or the best benefits, but I loved working for'em. Same thing in Alabama, next company, fairly small, stayed with them until they too got bought by a bigger company. It's the future, I"m afraid. But again, only job I'd do, if my luck runs out, and I'm thrown back in the workplace....

[madnesscult]

I was in a car accident about a year ago on my way home from a methadone clinic, and the cops tried to pin me with a DUI. It eventually got dropped since I was only on 40mg, nowhere near enough to get high and be impaired, but it was still a pain in the ass. The accident had nothing whatsoever to do with me being on methadone, and in the meth hadn't even kicked in yet (it was like 20 minutes after dosing)! I crashed because the roads were wet and I went over a patch of oil and lost control.

But anyway, I think it's stupid. They're not going after drivers with prescriptions for other impairing meds, and both are given to them by doctors.

[opiobsessed]

What pigs, I better get off my soapbox before I post too long a story. But just the other day two people bumped into each other while one was parking and the other was leaving, what made me worry is both were from the clinic and two cop cars were there. One of the crash victims was just standing in the cold looking at the damage to their car and I bet they were worrying that so much shit would come down and the damn pigs would really turn it into a huge exploit because both were from the clinic. Not to mention also the clinic is right on a busy street that I even have a hard time crossing sometimes if the lights dont turn red down the street at the right time. Man the shit we have to put up with and worry etc. On a cheerful note, gosh I miss the beginning of my first bottle of 120 watson's I got, if only I could freeze that day in time and never let it go. Back when about 4 hydro would get me off good.

[jacky]

yeah, its fucking bullshit to single out methadone users. tolerance to opiates is something that is a doctors right to observe, not a courts. I wouldnt be suprised if this topic might go to the higher courts someday...pure violation of our medical right to privacy.

better to keep pee around than try and fight the system though I understand that much.

my buddy kept working with clean pee and a rubber cock for a few years....."gotta see meat!"....yeah, he gave them the meat, even fashioned genital warts on that cock for realism....no, that was a joke

[matfield]

(I would vote a woman into office if she supported drug use!! anything is better than Bush:mad:[/quote]

WOW-i haven't read this thread before,by now, but i can't believe no one responded to that (quote)
You would (EVEN?) vote a woman if she supported drug use?! Because ANYTHING is better than Bush?
How sexistic is that? Or is the idea to have a woman for president generally so uncommon in the U.S.??
(or did i somehow misunderstand that post?)

[nick]

Did you vote for frau Merkel(very possible sp there,sorry)?

[matfield]

no i didn't because her party (consrevative) sucks

[matfield]

btw spelling was right nick:)

[Chipper]

It's all upside down - to the dependant/tolerant, driving whilst NOT on Methadone is where the real risk lies.

[Woowoo]

Taking methadone doesn't impair driving. Jonesing out of your mind for a hit of smack, now THAT impairs driving.

[WebDevil]

And if the whistle blower here is on methadone as well he should be imprisoned until he cold turkeys the withdrawal and then shot. WTF!

Very good.
i could go on about this shit allnite but ive done it already here a while ago.
check here
http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=8067&highlight=webdevil

[rachamim18]

Sorry to say, if I try to be objerctive about it I would have to say yes, they should be prohibited. After a while it no longer sedates at all but that phase literally takes years to reach and even then it is subjective so there would be no useful criteria in trying to establish parameters.

I do remember having to take DOT exams in the early 90s upon first going to America and methadone ws never an issue as long as I produced my documentation. Laws did not allow them to disclose my medication as long as it is prescribed.

Jacky: There is now ay gfor doctors to influence DMV regulations on a personal level. A systemic regulation needs to be in place to be effective. It is the same with elderly drivers. Who would disagree that many are risky at best. Yet, you either ban all of a certain age or none at all. It is safer to ban in this case (meaning methadone). I used to drive a tandem dump truck, and I am sad to say that I nodded off more than a few times and thank G-D it did not turn out badly.

[Canis aureus]

Methadone sedates some, some it doesn't. Everyone should know it by themselves, I mean are they risky in traffic or not. I know it just isn't such... people drive in each and every case.

But it is matter of fact that normal person, I mean who isn't on methadone or anything, could nod in daytime very well. I was working in another town with older man who used to drive there and back. We had to stop several times in afternoon because he was so tired that he started nodding. I drove often back because I didn't feel sleepy.

[Duckfeet]

What this really points to, IMO, is the tendency, in the last 20-30 years, to see any injury, as a lottery ticket to "free money." And the trial lawyers are just waiting in the wings. The reason I say this, is, if that trucker taps your car, and if you are morally ambiguous, you will immediately claim wiplash and all kinds of other "hard to pin down" injuries. And your lawyers, naturally, go after whoever has the most bucks, and they will show all kinds of negligence on the part of anybody who hires a methadone patient. It's why nobody wants to hire ex-cons anymore...the last trucking company who *did* hire me, explained that they can't give anybody a "second chance," since as a country, we are so lawsuit prone, that now cities, and private companies, will get sued, and a good lawyer can drag up all kinds of stuff in just about any methadone patient's past, to convince the jury that the city--or company--was negligent.

And with online databases adding to our problem, it doesn't really matter anymore, *how* much you have reformed and rehabilitated...hiring anybody with "a past" is just too risky a financial burden anymore...we have brought it on ourselves, in many ways, since it's rare not to have a friend, or be personaly involved, in a lawsuit, where one tries to sock it to the "rich guys," for every penny we can. So, in order to protect themselves, they have to avoid hiring *anybody* who might someday cause them financial hardship.

[prettypoppy]

Many many studies have been done to illustrate that patients on long term opioid therapy (particularly MMT) are just as able to drive as those who are not on medication--any differences in ability were not statictically significant. Yet these findings are ignored.

[riotgrrrl]

i'm new here but have been on methadone for 4 yrs. in WV. We had a guy here leave the clinic and MAYBE 3/10ths of a mile down the road hit a pregant nurse on the way to work, killing her. Some of the new regs. around here came from that. They fail to mention the fact that he could barely stand in the clinic that morning(i was there). For the next 3 weeks we had cops sitting watching us come n go. I am a commercial and private pilot and they tried to take my license away. I fought it and won. If anyone ever needs help with this.....

[starglazer33]

a person shouldbe responsible not methadone, methadone is a substance independent of cerebral structure and consciousness. whole lotta love gotta go i'll be back though gotta help out a friend who is sick, he's a trucker and he drives just fine. he's a very safe and respectable driver. he helps me get to the clinic. in a minute.



j-starglazer33:)

[Duckfeet]

I'm no fan of methadone, and am on 50mg daily, but I will say this: methadone often gets a bad wrap: junky's lie about what they are doing, and methadone is often *only* legal substance in them, and so often, we add all kinds of other shit, and o.d, and the coroner finds methadone, and that's what hits the news...plus, trial lawyers know that suing methadone clinics is where the money lies, so they always emphasize that...now that they've alread sued all the opiate providing docs out of business and into jails...fucking trial lawyers...between them and the DEA, when u guys get older, and are hurting, and can't get anything...you'll know who to blame: I do....


And why I'm changing this week to Republican, just so I can vote for Ron Paul in the primary out here,,,*only* policitican telling the truth about docs, dea, and pain providers....

[JunkYardSaint]

I have been on and off of methadone for over thirty years, and I can tell you from my first hand experience that it absolutely does not have a negative effect on my driving. I drove a taxi cab at several 2 to 3 year intervals, some of them while on methadone, other times clean, other times using - and I am the safest driver when on a maintenence dose of methadone. There are lots of studies and statistics out there, unfortunately they seem to contradict each other. That's the problem with statistics, people have an ax to grind and look for the results that back them up. In any case here is one study that supports my position.(From: http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/heroin/a/blelse031211.htm )
Study Shows Driving Skills Not AffectedAn Australian study in the December issue of Drug and Alcohol Dependence indicates similar simulated driving results in controls and clients stabilized on pharmacotherapy for heroin dependence. Michael Lenne, Greg Rumbold, Jenny Redman, and Tom J Triggs from Monash University, Victoria, Australia and Paul Dietze from Turning Point Alcohol and Drug Centre Inc, Victoria, Australia and the School of Health Sciences, Deakin University, Victoria Australia studied effects of three drugs used to maintain opiate dependence.Some jurisdictions restrict driving while maintained on methadone and there is a possibility that these restrictions might be extended to buprenorphine and levo-alpha-acetyl-methodol (LAAM). Such a restriction may limit use of treatment modalities in clients who drive.Thirty-four patients stabilized on methadone, LAAM, or buprenorphine for at least 3 months and 21 non-drug using volunteers participated in the study.Practice sessions were permitted on the simulator. Two experimental sessions (50-minute simulation) assessed speed, lateral position, steering wheel angle, and response to a secondary task. Before one of the sessions participants drank ethanol to obtain a targeted blood alcohol level (BAL) of 0.05.Simulated driving performance did not differ among the opiate treatment subjects or between opiate treatment subjects and controls. However, impairment was observed in all groups after alcohol consumption. Importantly, the effects of alcohol in producing diminished performance were equal in all groups. Results from this study question the need for the imposition of restricted driving standards on stabilized methadone, buprenorphine, and LAAM patients.

[Duckfeet]

Excellent take on statistics...I know I'm no different: I take a stance based on my own experience, then look for the stats to back it up...and junkies in NYC've been driving cabs for years on methadone...

As a trucker, what this really gets into, is two things: one, or culture has become increasingly litigious,and that has made business *forced* into stricter standards of hiring, since if they *knowingly* hire a convicted felon--me--or a convicted burglar--me--or a register drug addict--again, me--and I cause an accident, or commit a crime, the company will be sued, since they knowingly hired me...That's the *first* problem.

The second problem is the advent of online databases, which are now easily accessible by companies...In the old days, there was kind of a wink wink thing going on, since a lot of trucking companies, for example, wanted to give ex-cons like me a break, and in exchange--in my case anyway--got an honest hard working trucker, because I figured I had a lot more to lose, and would be a suspect, if my truck got "hijacked" or I got in a wreck or something...But no more, compainies now know every move you've made, and know they will be sued heavily if *u* fuck up, so, like politicians, our pasts come back to haunt us...

Those two things things have changed everything in my lifetime...excons now pretty much know they are fucked out of jobs, and ex-con drug addicts, unless they can hustle up a drug counselor job, usually opt for a nut-case ssd pension, or, if they were smart enough to get hurt in a war, get a veteran's pension...

Last time I trucked, for a few years, when I tried to get on with a new company, I realized it was over...this world has gotten way small, and "Big Brother" isn't a theory anymore..I"m a two time convicted felon, with burglary and Possesion of dilaudid convictions, plus pages of possesion of hypos and aggravated batteries, and I kind of felt like a citizen since I'd behaved for so many years, until I went up to Vancouver, and they pulled up my rap sheet....felt like a thug again,,,which for an old whitebearded guy, is actually kind of cool...as long as I got a pension ;-)

They'll reap what they sow w/this shit, now, as cons don't even try anymore...and we don't flip burgers, man....

Hopefully this will encourage more and more people to become libertarians, as we are powerless against the machine....

Eventually, they'll be a serious revolution in this country, as upward mobility and opportunity for the lower classes to move up, is starting to get more and more like Mexico...so I guess we can pile across the border that way, since we already got the training ;-)


I have been on and off of methadone for over thirty years, and I can tell you from my first hand experience that it absolutely does not have a negative effect on my driving. I drove a taxi cab at several 2 to 3 year intervals, some of them while on methadone, other times clean, other times using - and I am the safest driver when on a maintenence dose of methadone. There are lots of studies and statistics out there, unfortunately they seem to contradict each other. That's the problem with statistics, people have an ax to grind and look for the results that back them up. In any case here is one study that supports my position.

[$LOADIE*JONES'IN$]

THAT SUCKS :mad:

[Bonnie brae]

who cares? you may not think so but everybody knows your a doper.

[GA_M'Done120]

How can it be illegal to drive on methadone in ANY state? If driving on methadone is against the law then every clinic can be sued, because you are forced to dose at the clinic and then you have to drive away from the clinic. If you go into an ER and you are given a shot or pill of ANY controlled substance you have to have someone come to the ER and sign a waiver stating that they will be driving you home. The ER does that to cover their ass in case you were to cause and accident, etc after leaving. To my knowledge their is not a single clinic where you have to sign a waiver or have someone drive you home after you dose. If it were against the law to drive on methadone you can bet your ass every clinic would have you sign something that says someone else will be driving you home. The DUI on methadone is total bullshit!! I was ordered by a superior court judge to stay on methadone or risk going to jail. Most cops do and say whatever the hell they want to , because it pumps up their ego. If it were illegal to drive on methadone then every clinic would be sued and probably shut down when one of their patients gets a dui for methadone.:dollarsig:angry2:
If you think about it; clinics are nothing but a money machine. Do you think for 1 minute a clinic would not advise you it is against the law to drive on methadone? If it were illegal to drive on methadone these money hungry assholes that own these clinics would be the first to tell you and make you sign paperwork out the ass that you would not be driving after you dose. It is NOT illegal to drive on methadone that is legally prescribed to you. Hope this helps and thanks for allowing me to post.:mad:

[ein0606]

How can it be illegal to drive on methadone in ANY state? If driving on methadone is against the law then every clinic can be sued, because you are forced to dose at the clinic and then you have to drive away from the clinic. If you go into an ER and you are given a shot or pill of ANY controlled substance you have to have someone come to the ER and sign a waiver stating that they will be driving you home. The ER does that to cover their ass in case you were to cause and accident, etc after leaving. To my knowledge their is not a single clinic where you have to sign a waiver or have someone drive you home after you dose. If it were against the law to drive on methadone you can bet your ass every clinic would have you sign something that says someone else will be driving you home. The DUI on methadone is total bullshit!! I was ordered by a superior court judge to stay on methadone or risk going to jail. Most cops do and say whatever the hell they want to , because it pumps up their ego. If it were illegal to drive on methadone then every clinic would be sued and probably shut down when one of their patients gets a dui for methadone.:dollarsig:angry2:
If you think about it; clinics are nothing but a money machine. Do you think for 1 minute a clinic would not advise you it is against the law to drive on methadone? If it were illegal to drive on methadone these money hungry assholes that own these clinics would be the first to tell you and make you sign paperwork out the ass that you would not be driving after you dose. It is NOT illegal to drive on methadone that is legally prescribed to you. Hope this helps and thanks for allowing me to post.:mad:


wait a minute. so your saying its illegal to drive on methaonde? i havent read this thread. but i wrecked my car about 5 minutes after i dosed. thats why they kicked me out. kinda. but im going after them for other reasons too. so can i use this too?

[GA_M'Done120]

I was arrested and charged with DUI on methadone back in 2000. The case was dropped by the DA one week after the arrest. I do not know of any clinic that makes you sign a waiver about driving on methadone. l would have your lawyer check the federal guidelines each clinic must follow. IMHO if you can be charged with DUI on methadone you would think cops would be sitting and waiting for a patient to leave a clinic to nail them with a DUI. You can pull up the federal guidelines regarding methadone maintenance :Methadone patients who are stabilized on their dose (not brand new patients) are NOT high. They do not get any euphoria from the medication. Most feel absolutely nothing--a few compare the effects to a cup of coffee. Methadone should not be mixed with other drugs as it can be dangerous and can add to the activity of these drugs, and THIS can cause impairment--NOT methadone alone.

Methadone patients are NOT driving illegally. The law does not prohibit people from driving on opiate medications--it prohibits people from driving WHILE IMPAIRED. On most Rx bottles it says "Do not drive or operate heavy machinery until you know how this medication affects you". Studies show that people who take methadone and other opiate meds long term can drive with the same ability as someone who is not taking them. If it were illegal to drive on methadone, don't you think the police would spend all day every day arresting everyone leaving a clinic so they could fill their quota for the day with ease?

As the other poster stated, the recent raise in methadone related deaths is NOT related to clinic diversion, but to the increase in it's being prescribed for PAIN, to people without a narcotic tolerance, and by doctors who are not aware of the drug's unique properties and how to titrate it safely. And, with the volume of methadone available in the medicine cabinets all over the country lately, teens and others have been stealing it, taking too much,and disappointed in the lack of euphoria, taking even more, and dying. In the VAST majority of these deaths, other drugs are involved as well--often benzodiazepines.

Yet, groups like MAMA and others do not focus their efforts on the real cause (as determined by all studies on the methadone mortality issue), which is pain management--they are not attempting to educate and work with pain doctors, or even to prosecute pain patients who sell their drugs, because it is much easier to point the finger at methadone maintenance patients, to harass and stigmatize them, to kick the downtrodden. I'm sure they are aware that methadone patients don't have the funding to fight back, to buy billboards and PSA's, to fly to DC and lobby congress. And they may win. people like MAMA and coucilman Mike Moore--they may achieve their goals of shutting down the most effective treatment available for opiate addiction. I just wonder, when all those who are being helped to live a normal life with MMT are returned to the streets, and when 90% of them relapse (as stats show they will), and end up dead---will they care then? They say they want to stop the deaths--what about the deaths of these people? Abstinence based treatment is abysmally ineffective, because this is a physical, chemical problem for many addicts and needs medical treatment. Better oversight and MORE treatment facilities (instead of moratoriums against them), and EDUCATION--that is the answer.
This was taken for a recent port on a NAMA forum.
:confused-
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[Hookahed]

Having been in Tansportation Management for over 20 years I'm not going to comment on whether it's safe to drive a commercial vehicle while on opiates. Way too many random events can occur that make many accidents simply unexplainable.

I will say that I work for one of the 20 largest Trucking Companies in the US and we require post employment tests. Anyone testing positive for opiates, benzos and even bi-polar meds are put on the botom of the stack of applications even if they have valid scipts/needs. Call it discirimination but insurance investigations prove higher risk. We are also required to do random and post acident testing as well. These are visually monitored so no WHizzinator is going to help you there. Glad I'm in management.