Subs becoming less effective, normal?

[tptptp]

Ok I went on subs after a week of mostly being sick with tramadol and kratom, real shitty week so when I went on subs about 6mg a day was a good, if not slighlty excessive dose. In the very beginning it felt like I was a little TOO wired. After 10 days or so on subs I binged on opiates for two days and barely got high, I think it was a combo of the subs still in me and not using enough. I only binged because I had bought the opiates prior and they had arrived after I got the bupe, otherwise, hell even then I didnt have much desire to use. I sorta craved bupe while I was on the opiates believe it or not. If the opiates had made me a little bit higher I probably wouldnt have though.

Anyhow, after that little binge...I started snorting bupe and because I still felt as though I was getting a nice energy burst especially from snorting them and overdid it...maybe 16mg - half snorted, and felt pretty good that day, maybe even a little high strung. After a couple days doing that, it felt as if the bupe was less effective than originally. I've weaned down to like 8mg oral over the past week to ten days and today decided fuck 8 to do 15, but it hasnt made much difference. Seems like if anything I just raised my tolerance a little again for hardly anything. But I keep trying because theyve made me feel better in the past. Right now with them I havent felt bad, at least not physically, but the motivation they gave me initially seems to have slimmed. I liked the energetic burst. I'm a newby though and it seems from what I've read from others that the energetic effect doesnt go away for them. I am considering getting a short half life opiates for a week or so then getting sick for as long as I can before I try them again. Maybe they dont seem as effective since when I started taking them I wasnt really in much of any withdraw....I dunno I'm a sub newb.



I dont know if I just have to restabilize or what or if the magic is gone. I haven't felt physically bad on them yet, even at 8mg oral, and really I havent felt "bad" mentally either. But before that binge they worked ten times better than after the two day binge......really weird.

[SuperJunky]

Sounds like your still looking for a buzz, thats not a bad thing, I'm always lookin for a buzz, thing is that your using a drug that can really throw your tolerance out of whack to opies in an attemp to get stimulant effect (it's not really what you want is it? It's just part of that compulsive I gotta due something crap). Lower your dose and get some coke or amphetamines (or both) or give the sub up and get some real opiates before it's to late and you drive your tolerance up so fricken high it's no longer an option.

[tptptp]

Sounds like your still looking for a buzz, thats not a bad thing, I'm always lookin for a buzz, thing is that your using a drug that can really throw your tolerance out of whack to opies in an attemp to get stimulant effect (it's not really what you want is it? It's just part of that compulsive I gotta due something crap). Lower your dose and get some coke or amphetamines (or both) or give the sub up and get some real opiates before it's to late and you drive your tolerance up so fricken high it's no longer an option.


Eh? I just want the motivated feeling back from it. Nothing like a real stimulant and real stimulants really do fuck your brain up eventually, along with other health problems - I don't really like regular stimulants. It was more of an anti-depressant feeling, and like I said others seem to say that it DOESNT fade, thankfully. So I'm thinking that little binge just screwed meI think maybe I have to get pretty sick again and when I do maybe I can restart it? Hopefully someone experienced with it can chime in, they do always say the sicker you are when you start the better. I was in limbo land between sickness and high the second time I started when I didnt get much feeling from it.... The first round I was pretty sick and these were great - actually they were TOO much. Then I took them when I wasnt quite sick and eh.....the doc said the longer you wait the better they work, but I figured eventually they would start kicking strong again......but maybe you have to be sick in the beginning or they wont work as well the entire run????? Thats my only guess and hope since other say the feeling doesnt fade....The other possibility is...I had been so sick for a while that, that great feeling has just slowly become "normal" I still definitely feel better than pre bupe and have less cravings etc. but just lacking that little edge that put the smile on my face. after going down to about 8, then today doing 8 orally and 7 bumped also and seeing it didn do much Im gonna go for another 8 orally tomorrow and slowly go from there, I guess.

And correct me if I'm wrong - but sub doesnt drive your tolerance up to an extreme quite like methadone, im sure it can keep tolerance up and raise it somewhat, but from what I've heard it doesnt create new receptors (methadone does, doesnt it? at least thats what i thought) so though it might completely cock stroke your current receptors and keep them maxxed out... but beyond that??

You are right about the compulsive thing though....thats for sure.

PS
I'm not tooo worried ablut getting my tolerance real high on bupe either, because from what I've heard, though I haven't been on them long, itsd not hard to get down low, its just hard to get past that....

[SuperJunky]

I never thought I would say this, I really have always hated every stimulant other than MD*, they always made me feel like absolute shit right away, and made me feel like absolute crap untill I did a lot of dope or waited a day or more, but I recently took some small doses of pure methamphetamine and it actually just made me awake and (oh my fricken god...) motivated. Motivation w/ a stim? Not used to that shit, but really. I mean small though, just like10-20 mgs at most, IV of course. No rush, no feeling teaked out (I've been up for three days now (or is it four?)) and am just now starting to get a little crazy, but amphetamines just kept me awake yesterday during the day. Even in the stretches when I was moderatly in WD it actually made me feel better. It's really creepy, the weird shit that must be in your standard run of the mill trailor park meth to give you such different effects. Bupe has a long half life and I do beleive it's not real nice to your tolerance especialy bouncing back and fourth but I could be wrong, me and that shit don't get along so I can' really say from experience. I don't like pharmacutical amphetamines, or even caffeine, cocaine only a bit w/ a lot of dope fallowed by more dope.

[jacky]

I think when on buprenorphine that some things are less potent besides other opioids/opiates. cannabis has a different, blunted effect when I am on buprenorphine. some kappa opioid activity is suspected with cannabis, so perhaps this blunting effect is due to the bup occupying the kappa receptors, and blocking partially the cannabis?

I really cant stand being on bup for too long, when I get on it, I try and do some herbs with the bup that are reported to interact with opioid/opiate receptors. there is some information regarding cats claw that leads me to believe that herb might potentiate, or at least lengthen the effect of bup in the system.

if I wasnt really interested in finding different materials that can aid an opiate regimine, I might consider going on bup longterm as more of a daily support, but life gets boring for me not researching psychoactives, and it seems that opium/morphine and other classic opiate use is more relevant to the majority of the population.
the euphoria of buprenorphine is different from classic opiates, no real way around that one.

people are at different stages of addiction I geuss, and people have different outlooks etc when concerning how opiates effect their lives.
I think that buprenorphine can offer something for some people that will possibly help them save their lives.
for others its just a low cost kick.
for me its a tool to lower tolerance to other opiates/opioids, and occasionally as a recreational material.
and a few tight spaces I have been in buprenorphine has made all the difference.

there is the possibility that there are other substances that can intensify/augment the buprenorphine experience.
for one I use small amounts of salvia divinorum with buprenorphine on a more consistant basis than when I am on classic opiates.
when I get the feeling late night that I need more opioid stimulation, but dont want to take more bup, I smoke a small amount of this potent kappa opioid agonist. sometimes I will just drift off to sleep right there....
but if not the salvia seems to smooth out the gaps of dosing buprenorphine.
the possibly synergys of two potent kappa opioid agonist like bup and salvinorin have potential.
the key I think is if salvia divinorum effects you potently, then take very small doses of it, as the higher doses of salvia can cause dyshphoria and intense feelings.
likewise on the subject of the two drugs......... for me it seems that when I am on buprenorphine ,salvia divinorum inebriation is a bit more desirable.

I cant imagine a year straight on buprenorphine, but I have done the stuff for months at a time, and developed similiar ceilings of effect.

if I wait a day, dont take bup, and switch to standard opiates, the resulting euphoria is incredible. at that point I realize how different the stuff effects me.

[quest390]

ok this is my second day of being on suboxone for oxycontin withdrawl. i was taking around 360mg's a day for a couple of weeks towards the end. anyways the suboxone isnt really helping that much. i feel really weird and shitty on them. i thought it was just yesterday cause i was gettting used to them and maybe still in a little withdrawl. but im fucking freaking out here today, i just smoked a little pot to hopefully make me feel a little better but it made it alot worse. feel alot of anxiety. please someone let me know what i can do or possible whats going on. if this stays like this much longer im going to have to get some more oxy and i really dont want to do that. im really trying this time.

[Jetskiracer]

Take some more bupe..it can only help..not hurt....you need more than i do cuz i was taking around 200 mg of hydro a day...i'm on 3-4 mg of bupe and I feel fine..you probably need like 6-8 mg right off the bat..

[jacky]

hey quest, you should try and take some herbs/supplements/other meds for the side effects of switching onto buprenorphine...
I always feel strange for around 3-4 days when switching, even if it is just a planned/orchestrated ween/switch. the feeling is just not being quite satisfied.

its a bit different when I was in full withdrawl and switching and experiencing pure buprenorphine IV for the first time..only 400 micrograms fixed me, and I needed less than 2 milligrams IV a day to keep away withdrawl, and actually, experience some real nice effects.
ampules of bup are hard to come by, and this particular material was for pain treatment, not opiate detox.
I know some people are shooting these subs...but I wouldnt do it just cause I would hate to get sucked into a long term IV addiction to something that could possibly contain talc or some other contaminant.

I have had some real painful experiences switching to bup before I should have. cant make that mistake again.
waiting for the withdrawl to start, and then waiting for the subs to work is not real fun.

give it a week total and you might start liking the effects of those pills, keep the dose as low as you can really, I think I have noticed some low dose euphoria that I dont at higher doses...2mg a day is low for me.....16 mg is high....never taken more than 32 mgs in a 24 hour period. but I felt far better on the lower doses than the higher.
one guy I know, long term older junky, would take 6-8 subs a day.
he said he felt nothing...but looking at his demeanor you would say he looked a little...off, high, pinned and such. he was getting no euphoria.

take it easy! hang in there man.

[MorFinatic]

I've been cravin 'real' drugs lately, the subs aren't doin it for me either. I've been feelin kinda sick(not horrible but slight w\d's) lately but I've been takin the same amount of bupe. I don't know if its the cravings makin me feel this way or what, but I need a real high before I go crazy.
Bupe is a really odd drug...

[tptptp]

ok this is my second day of being on suboxone for oxycontin withdrawl. i was taking around 360mg's a day for a couple of weeks towards the end. anyways the suboxone isnt really helping that much. i feel really weird and shitty on them. i thought it was just yesterday cause i was gettting used to them and maybe still in a little withdrawl. but im fucking freaking out here today, i just smoked a little pot to hopefully make me feel a little better but it made it alot worse. feel alot of anxiety. please someone let me know what i can do or possible whats going on. if this stays like this much longer im going to have to get some more oxy and i really dont want to do that. im really trying this time.

I dont normally care, and I'm guilty of it myself quite often, but I'm really looking for some serious input to my dilemna, so please dont hijack this thread. But all I can think is, the worst your WD'ng before you start the better. These things effect people differently, but the best you can expect from them is to not feel sick and maybe a little energy/motivation at best. Some people cant deal w/it and need methadone. If you weren't wd'ng bad when you took the bupe it is said to be less effective

[Frozen]

I dont normally care, and I'm guilty of it myself quite often, but I'm really looking for some serious input to my dilemna, so please dont hijack this thread.

I know what you're looking for, but it looks like you'll get exactly what you deserve instead.... Which is absolutely nothing.

Ain't karma (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=6701&page=4&highlight=cook)a bitch? :D :D :D

[tptptp]

Well just an update the next day I only did 4mg, and felt just fine, did another 2 that night and even felt a little buzzed. Only did 4mg this morning as well, will probably skip the night dose or lower it. Looks like a lower dose served me better I just had to be a little patient on a lower dose for a day.
I guess maybe the buzz's come from getting that slight WD before the next dose. I guess cuz the half life is so long maybe you're in a little WD and dont even notice it, and thats what kicks in the buzz.
I think quite alot of it was just from me becoming accustomed to the med, cuz when I think about it, the way I act, the amount of stuff I get done etc. definitely isnt normal for me, so it must be kicking still.

[tptptp]

In case anyones wondering got another update, the next day I did the same dose 4 morning and 2 night except I didnt bump the nightly dose like I had on the previous day(so the one day i subl'd 4 and bumped 2, the enxt day I subl'd the 4 and subl'd the 2). I did seem to sense a little sickness between my daytime and night dose but not difficult to ignore at all. I still felt the night time dose buzz me slightly, not quite as strong as the night before though. Today I took 3mg in the morning and feel fine. Plan to take 1 more mg tonight most likely.

[tptptp]

Ok so I know acouple ppl interested in subs are looking at this so I'll give another follow up:

Yeah so basically I've been lingering around5-6ish mg /day started to feel kinda bored again, did 9 mg yesterday(one of them snorted, doh!) and felt pretty good that night with the final2 mg of the 9mg dose.....Took 8 today....may be my optimal dosage, this is the first day in a bit I took it in one large dose instead of a bunch of small doses as needed. Still hasnt been long enough to fully kick in yet.

For those curious, even at doses such as 5mg/day I never felt physically sick, at least nothing significantly noticable. I think as far as PHYSICAL sickness I could immediately drop alot lower dose than even 5mg, but mentally feel bored/depressed with a dose lower than, and even sometimes 6.
So I think if I was super driven to quit it would be simple to PHYSICALLY at least get low on the dose, and take it from there.
I don't have a desire to quit if the subs help me feel better though.