From BUPE to OXY and my chronic pain madness..

[betmylife]

Hey everyone, well I have decided to finally voice my story, and get your guys input and all that, I have been on this site for a while, mostly lurking and reading more than posting. I began my love affair with prescription opiates about a year ago, being that I have been a chronic pain sufferer for some time now. It all started when a co-worker of mine gave me a few lortabs because of my complaining of back and knee pain. After that I started buying about 30-40 lortab 7.5's or percoset 5's a week. This went on for a while until my tolerance went up and my friend suggested I try oxycontin(my friend being an oxy junkie who wanted someone to share in his fun/misery). I was using around 3 or 4 80mg oxys a week, using a quarter to a half a day. I never used to try and get high(something I have given into more recently) I just tried to maintain my pain. At that time I had no insurance and thought my pain was the product of overworking myself, being out of shape, and my former sports injuries. In any case, my tolerance kept going up and I started using more and more, had to find more ways to obtain the drug, got my brother involved with getting it for me and inadvertantly getting him addicted.(he is currently finishing a 6 month jail sentence for violation of probation when he got caught trying to sell back a DVD box set he stole from a store, he was trying to get money for oxy.) After my brother got in trouble,(and my friend who got me started on the oxys went to rehab, and ratted me out to my boss and co-workers) I decided that despite my pain I was going to quit. Being my boss and co-workers knew all about my addiction, my boss insisted that I go to a clinic or something. I decided rehab wasnt for me and read about Suboxone so I got into a detox program at a local pain clinic. This was ok until I went back to work and was back in terrible pain. I went back to using oxy when I could afford it, or when I was in too much pain. During that time I got put on insurance and went to a doctor, the x-rayed my back and knee and decided I needed MRIs. The MRIs found that I had 2 herniated discs, sclerosis of the spine, degenerative spine disease, scoliosis, and arthritis(the doctors were kinda amazed because Im only 23). My knee also had problems, but the words are too large. In any case the doctor immediatly decided I needed screws but in my spine, but I wasnt too thrilled. I took my information to the Suboxone doctor who used to be an orthopedic surgeon. He decided I could be put on pain meds and wrote me a script for 105 percoset 5s(5 a day for 3 weeks). He flat out said he couldnt give me the dose I was on when I came in for detox, and I understand because I know those docs are watched heavily by our friends with 3 letters. But being I was using off and on with Suboxone my tolerance is pretty high right now, I need 90-180mgs a day. 120 mgs is really about the perfect amount, one 30mg pill 4 times a day. I dont get high and my pain is well under control. The 25 mgs I get doesnt even scratch the surface. Any suggestions on how to approach the doc on getting a higher dose, or even how I could lower my own tolerance, or just any feedback on my situation in general would be great..thanks, I have an appointment on Tuesday with the doc again.

BetMyLife

[bronyraur]

welcome BML. I too am a chronic pain sufferer, so I know the misery you speak of.

Welcome to the jungle.

[betmylife]

welcome BML. I too am a chronic pain sufferer, so I know the misery you speak of.

Welcome to the jungle.



thanks bronyaur

[Frozen]

Hi BML,

There have been quite a few threads here on dealing with doctors, and I have nothing to add on that aspect, but...

Do a search on proglumide. I've read that this (non-opioid, non-narcotic) substance works wonders on lowering tolerance levels. I've been trying to get my hands on some for weeks, with no success.
(Is it against forum rules to hint that I'd pay a nice fat profit to anyone who can help me obtain this non-narcotic substance? If so, forget I mentioned it...)

[JahRed24]

Dude use DXM ( the robotussin cough gelcaps) DXM will make the oxy's stronger by lowering ur tolerance for the time being. oh yeah and take about 50-75mgs of DXM 45mins-1hr. before ingesting ur drug of choice..

[doctor diesel]

What I don't understand is this: why doesn't a doctor simply prescribe you a sufficient dose of buprenorphine to manage your pain. You won't get high on it, so you can't abuse it, and doctors know this full well. Yet the stuff is a very powerful pain killer - my wife has it prescribed for breakthrough pain. This would solve everyone's problems at one fell swoop. Is it too logical?

Doc Diesel

[roxi*stardust]

What I don't understand is this: why doesn't a doctor simply prescribe you a sufficient dose of buprenorphine to manage your pain. You won't get high on it, so you can't abuse it, and doctors know this full well. Yet the stuff is a very powerful pain killer - my wife has it prescribed for breakthrough pain. This would solve everyone's problems at one fell swoop. Is it too logical?

Doc Diesel
It is logical doc but bupe unlike Oxy, Morphine, Hydromorphone, and other full agonist opiates has a ceiling effect which I believe is 32mg. (don't quote me on that number but it is aroung there). So if you required more than say 32 mg's, it's wouldn't be an effective choice of meds for people requiring high doses for severe chronic pain. If there is an issue of past or current abuse of prescription or illicit drugs the doctor should consider Methadone. It is a very good pain reliever with a long haflife and at high doses has a blocking effect, I think it is around 80mg's.

[doctor diesel]

But aren't I right in saying, Roxi, that doctors don't generally prescribe methadone for chronic pain? Isn't it regarded as a sort of taboo drug reserved for rehabilitating junkies? I think that's the perception in UK.

And going back to bupe, 32mg is surely a very, very high dose, isn't it? I base that on the fact that my wife's breakthrough dose of the stuff is a mere 400 microgrammes, which proves to be very effective indeed. Surely within the range 400mcg-32mg there's a whole load of pain relief on offer, isn't there?

I'm slightly confused!

Doc

[roxi*stardust]

But aren't I right in saying, Roxi, that doctors don't generally prescribe methadone for chronic pain? Isn't it regarded as a sort of taboo drug reserved for rehabilitating junkies? I think that's the perception in UK.

And going back to bupe, 32mg is surely a very, very high dose, isn't it? I base that on the fact that my wife's breakthrough dose of the stuff is a mere 400 microgrammes, which proves to be very effective indeed. Surely within the range 400mcg-32mg there's a whole load of pain relief on offer, isn't there?

I'm slightly confused!

Doc

Your right on track doc it can be effective for pain, I just don't know how effective it would be in managing chronic pain around the clock on a long term basis especailly if its' ceiling effect is 32mgs there is always the issue of tolerance with people with chronic pain, at some point it simply wouldn't be an option becasue of this ceiling effect so it isn't RX'd for pain very often here. For some taking Oxycontin 80mg TID or QID, bupe would not be a very effective alternative. For someone not requiring large doses, yeah I could see it being used for sure, especailly for b/t pain. Now as far as Methadone, I'm not sure about the UK, but alot of Doctors here, at least here in my state, use it for long term pain control. It has many benefits that are attractive to doctors dealing with patients with pain issues and addiction issues. The first is obviously the blocking effect it provides and the second it how long acting it is.

[cjd83us]

I got addicted to oxy's and vicoden because I was in so much pain( my knee is really messed up and I have no money for an MRI to see what the problem really is) when I finally couldnt afford to buy it on the streets I told my doc who put me on suboxone. I find it to have little to no pain killing effects for me. I know that buprenex is a pain killer but suboxone doesnt help me at all and I am on 16mg a day. even if I take 32mg it doesnt make a difference

[roxi*stardust]

I got addicted to oxy's and vicoden because I was in so much pain( my knee is really messed up and I have no money for an MRI to see what the problem really is) when I finally couldnt afford to buy it on the streets I told my doc who put me on suboxone. I find it to have little to no pain killing effects for me. I know that buprenex is a pain killer but suboxone doesnt help me at all and I am on 16mg a day. even if I take 32mg it doesnt make a difference
Yeah it is not effective for chronic long term severe pain. The ceiling dose is around 32mg, if that does't work than no higher doses will either.

[oc80tn]

The one time I tried the Suboxone (I was out of my OxyContin), it felt like it actually increased my pain level. Perhaps it was in my head, but I hurt worse after I took it than when I was just in withdrawal. It did help with that, of course, but the actual pain in my thoracic spine and the nerves running into my left ribs was increased by about 3 points, from a 4 or 4.5 to a 7 or 8(I have chronic nerve damage and the pain in my side is just the damage of the nerves running from my spine into the ribs and around to the middle of my chest.
Like I said, maybe it was just psychosomatic, but in any event, my back pain went way up!!!! So in my case, the Suboxone (buprenorphine) was ineffective and not a good choice for treating chronic pain. And that was after taking about 20 milligrams (2.5 of the 8mg dissolvable tablets). Maybe it'd be different for others, but not for me.
For whatever it's worth, I hope that is helpful information!

[nick]

But aren't I right in saying, Roxi, that doctors don't generally prescribe methadone for chronic pain? Isn't it regarded as a sort of taboo drug reserved for rehabilitating junkies? I think that's the perception in UK.

And going back to bupe, 32mg is surely a very, very high dose, isn't it? I base that on the fact that my wife's breakthrough dose of the stuff is a mere 400 microgrammes, which proves to be very effective indeed. Surely within the range 400mcg-32mg there's a whole load of pain relief on offer, isn't there?

I'm slightly confused!

Doc

methadone is being increasingly rxed for pain here doc.Particularly for addicts with cp issues.

[l4l5]

ike takes methodone, but he has a cocktail of other stuff too, he is a chronic pain sufferer

[flipside]

But aren't I right in saying, Roxi, that doctors don't generally prescribe methadone for chronic pain? Isn't it regarded as a sort of taboo drug reserved for rehabilitating junkies? I think that's the perception in UK.

And going back to bupe, 32mg is surely a very, very high dose, isn't it? I base that on the fact that my wife's breakthrough dose of the stuff is a mere 400 microgrammes, which proves to be very effective indeed. Surely within the range 400mcg-32mg there's a whole load of pain relief on offer, isn't there?

I'm slightly confused!

Doc

Doc if it's not too personal may I ask what your wife's diagnosis is? Just curious to here from someone who bupe actualy works for for pain of any sort.

[HeidiW]

I get 90 mg a day of Methadone however I only take around 40 or 50 mg. a day with 16 mg per day of dilaudid for breakthru pain. I find it works real good for me.

[betmylife]

yeah. sorry I havnt responded to my own thread at all, the internet we were ciping from our neighbors cut out, and we just got it back...ROXI is right about the BUPE ceiling effect, also it helps with pain less and less every use. I guess Ill try the DXM thing, but I work alot and while I can work on an oxy high, I cant be all fucked up and useless, but thanks...since my last post my doc has given me an extra perc 5 a day(what a huge diff that will make), but I figure Ill try again after a few more visits....or find a doc who knows whats up..anyways gotta go work, but thanks for all the responses and youll be seeing me alot more around....

betmylife

[Badly Drawn Girl]

I I find it to have little to no pain killing effects for me. I know that buprenex is a pain killer but suboxone doesnt help me at all and I am on 16mg a day. even if I take 32mg it doesnt make a difference

That was my experience as well. I got no relief on subs. Methadone was hands down the best opiate for my pain. Better than even Oxy's. I'm trying to figure out what to do myself because I am a chronic pain person, I do function better on pain pills and yet I'd rather live in pain then go back to drug seeking. If I find a doctor who will properly medicate me I'll consider it. I didn't take pills to get high. I was only trying to get through my day. But not being able to get what I "needed" was really negatively affecting my life. It's so upsetting to me that in this day and age, people have to live in pain 24/7. It makes no sense.

Anyway, to the OP... welcome to the board. I literally feel your pain.