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View Full Version : 'Rapid Detox' May Be Life-Threatening



anthropod
08-24-2005, 08:37 AM
The study itself:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/8/903

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050824/ap_on_he_me/detox_study
By CARLA K. JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer Tue Aug 23, 8:31 PM ET


CHICAGO - Internet ads for "ultra rapid detox" using anesthesia promise pain-free withdrawal from heroin and prescription painkillers. But the technique can be life-threatening, is not pain-free and has no advantage over other methods, a new study of 106 patients found.


The study, the most rigorous to date on the method, showed that patients' withdrawal was as severe as those of addicts undergoing other detox approaches.

"Anyone who tells you it's painless can only honestly be referring to the period the person is under anesthesia," said co-author Dr. Eric Collins of Columbia University Medical Center.

The study appears in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association.


Patients, all heroin addicts, were divided into three treatment groups. Those receiving ultra rapid detox were anesthetized for about four hours while they got a large dose of a drug that blocks the brain's opioid receptors.

In an awake patient, the initial dose would cause severe withdrawal symptoms, Collins said. The anesthesia is meant to mask the symptoms.

Patients underwent withdrawal when they awoke, even though they were given additional medications for withdrawal symptoms that included anxiety, insomnia, achy muscles and joints, diarrhea and vomiting.

"People think this is a nice, pleasant way to sleep through the misery of opiate detoxification," said Dr. Susan Stine, who trains addiction psychiatry residents at Wayne State University School of Medicine and was not involved in the new study. "This is research that's been needed for some time."

The method also struck out on keeping addicts clean. Eighty percent of the anesthesia patients dropped out of follow-up treatment, a dropout rate slightly higher than for another method in the study.

And three of 35 anesthesia patients suffered life-threatening events, despite painstaking safety measures.

Since it began about 15 years ago, the method has been linked with several deaths. In one case, New Jersey regulators fined and gave two-year license suspensions to two doctors practicing the method, although the doctors were cleared of negligence in seven deaths.

"Some doctors have put their financial interests way ahead of the well-being of their patients," said Dr. Thomas Kosten, professor of psychiatry at Yale University School of Medicine. He recommended maintenance methods such as methadone or buprenorphine, instead of detox, for narcotics addiction.

But methadone and buprenorphine create physical dependence and they must be tapered gradually to avoid withdrawal symptoms, or continued indefinitely.

Some people will choose detox because they reject exchanging one drug for another, said Jake Epperly, who runs ultra rapid detox programs in Chicago and Los Angeles.

His company, Midwest Rapid Opiate Detoxification Specialists, treats about 250 addicts annually at $9,200 each.

"We've had no problems," Epperly said, adding that the JAMA study used a different ultra rapid detox method than his programs use.

The American Society of Addiction Medicine's policy statement on ultra rapid detox says the method should be paired with counseling services and should be done only by trained staff with access to emergency medical equipment. The group also said patients should be informed of risks and benefits of the method compared with other options.

Paregoric Kid
08-24-2005, 07:02 PM
well I guess this confirms my suspicion that this method of detox was a bunch of pseudoscientific bullshit

anthropod
08-24-2005, 07:57 PM
"Midwest Rapid Opiate Detoxification Specialists" say they use a different method than the one in the study, but they don't say what it is or how it differs, nor do they say whether their success rate is any higher than other methods. Whether life threatening or not, $9,200 is an incredible amount of money, and now it seems that there is still significant withdrawl discomfort once the anesthesia wears off. I would think that the acute withdrawl agony hitting all at once could be factor in later relapse, essentially creating traumatic stress that increases succeptibility to post-acute withdrawl syndrome later. This is just speculation on my part of course, and I can see why many people would want to bite the bullet and get it over with. But still, almost ten grand?

bi11i
08-24-2005, 08:36 PM
$9200 is a few thousand shy of the waismann method - what was the cost? like $17,000?

jacky
08-26-2005, 12:03 PM
the only person I know who underwent rapid detox, said that he experienced about 5 days of significant withdrawls after. He was a pretty bad case though, and the withdrawls may have been intensified by his general lack of health.

Waismann
09-15-2005, 02:20 PM
It is unbelievable and sad, how you guys are fighting the oppurtunity for another option...

For the first time in decades, drug dependent patients are actulayy treated by doctors, in a hospital, with respect like any other patients.
The pharmaceutical companies pay for studies to prove that patients should stay dependent on drugs for the rested of their lives and you guys like it.

We are not your enemies, drugs are....

And by the way it is not our fault that insurances are not paying for treatments and are paying for drugs... Please guys realize that keeping patients on drugs is what really cost you money.

We offer the best medicine has to offer, but like with any medical procedure is just as good as the doctor that practices it....

Open your eyes...

rebo
09-15-2005, 06:10 PM
They may be treated in hospitals, but you can forget about the respect ,too many steriotypes out there ,also the cost is totally unjustified ,most heroin addicts could never hope to afford this ,save up you say ,by the time youv'e saved up for this treatment you wouldn't need it.
Waisman ,you sound like you in the medical profession ,how many long time succeses did you have with this treatment percentage wise?
Also how many people who were referred for the treatment were "true" junkies who could afford the treatment on there own?
Please don't get me wrong ,if it works for you ,great .
The cost of this treatment combined with the lack of success leads me to believe there has to be a better way.First of all ,you have to want this treatment ,not your parents or partner etc.
Waisman ,where do you stand on the topic of presciption heroin to registered addicts??

poonwhalla
09-16-2005, 06:48 AM
this treatment seems to me like an instant fix or gratification. If you are out on anything ex...anastizia that will knock your ass out while you would normalilly feel it. After that docs want to see how you react to whatever they give you to come up with the next cleaver named pill they want to give to the masses. Ask a lot of questions. If you think other wise and want out of your addiction, keep yourself healthy!!! I am in search of the eternal buzz!! Make sure u take care of ur self(who else will)

katomic
09-16-2005, 07:33 AM
isant ths way of detoxing bad for you brain?

the safer way is ibogain pm me for infomation on treatment centers iv got got them hear somewhere:dark11:

mrods
09-16-2005, 08:11 AM
After carefull review of the study cited in JAMA by myself as well as two Board Certified Anesthesiologist who are also have had a proper proctoring as well as ongoing experiance in AAROD (anesthesia Assisted Rapid Opiate Detoxification, the following was evident:
1. The protocol they used was very (8 years) out dated.
2. The anesthesiologist they used had no ongoing prior experiance in AAROD.
3. The problems they cited could have been avoided with proper patient screening.
4. They had no residential treatment program (www.mrods.com (http://www.mrods.com) does) to enroll patients in post - AAROD.

Waismann
09-16-2005, 10:51 AM
We have been treating Heroin dependent patients for over qa decade. Our success rate after one year is higher then 65%. The after care is really based on each patients needs.
We treat our patients as individuals "with specific needs" , not as junkies, that are thrown in a lock down like a hurdle.
The cost is well justified if you just stop ann calculate what is provided. It is not my fault that insurances still believe in punioshing patients and not treating them...It is not my fault that pharmaceutical companies spend their money on maintance drugs, so they can keep the customer forever.

The sad part of the story, is that for 10 years I have been fighting the steriotype put on patients by society...But I never thought I would fight the patients in order to give them respect. It saddens me...:(

rebo
09-16-2005, 11:17 PM
Waisman ,I respect what you are doing for the patients and hope you didn't take my statements personally ,I understand you are fighting an uphill battte and wish you the best of luck!
I have been a patient in this situation ,not AAD ,but the naltraxone treatment and admittedly it was in Australia and not America, I found the drugs dangerous and had 2 "fits" on them and therefore I am extremely cautious of there use ,out of 10 of us ,two had naltrexone related seizures and it hurt kike hell .It felt like red hot knife pokers in our guts and then we passed out ,apparently went into convultions and then threw up pure bile.
After this I had trouble eating for almost a month and it drew out the withdrawal process by a month comparing to the 2 week cold turkey withdrawall.
I'm sure this does'nt happen to everyone ,so please by no means lose heart in what you are doing as you are one of the very few who cares ,just be carefull.(not that I am anyone to give advice).

Zoops
09-18-2005, 04:46 AM
Hey, I am a "health professional" too! 'cept my addiction got me drummed out of that field. I'm much better now, just using kratom and nothing else. Just because I am a (former) health professional, does that mean MY opinion on this issue counts for more than some ordinary garden-variety dope fiend. NO, PROBABLY NOT!

Anyway, there was a mention of something in the initial post on this thread -

The method also struck out on keeping addicts clean. Eighty percent of the anesthesia patients dropped out of follow-up treatment, a dropout rate slightly higher than for another method in the study.

that got me thinking. It's this: if an addict doesn't feel the pain and heartache of the physical withdrawals, then how the hell is he going to motivated not to go back to using when he's finally all cleaned out? I mean, it's basic, psyche '101. Negative reinforcement, except that negative reinforcement is nonexistent with the Utra-Rapid Detox Method.

These folks don't stress the ONLY SYSTEM THAT HAS PROVEN SUCCESS FOR OVER SIXTY YEARS, is the 12-steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. It's a spiritual program designed to effect a complete psychic change in the individual. Narcotics Anonymous is for lightweights who just wanna exchange "war stories." NA (at least in MY area) doesn't stress the 12-steps, which IS the program. Look, people, if you wanna give up the junky lifestyle, get on some kinda traditional detox, with methadone or buprenorphine, and go to a 12-step treatment program, and move into a halfway house for about a year, and then go on maintenance with AA a day at a time.

That's my two cents werf, you can all gang up on me and hang me from a pole now...

mrods
09-18-2005, 06:58 AM
Thanks you for your insight and possibly personal experiance.

Maybe people who have diabetis (sp) can find alternative means for treatment that work. However, insulin has proven to help the most. The same follows with AA/NA 12 step programs. People do get better a variety of ways, however probably the most successful component of an ongoing recovery program is abstinance and attendence at AA/NA. Geoge Vallant, a researcher at Yale has done the longest/longitudinal study of alcoholics/addicts ever. He has been following students since I believe the early sixties or late fifties. He has repeatidly found the single most common variable in ongoing recovery is attendence at AA/12 step meetings. AAROD does NOT fix you. Basically a detox is a detox is a detox. However what happens after detox is very important.

In regard to the "no pain no gain" issue, most of the individuals who come for AAROD have already been through many unsuccessful painful detoxes and they did not work. The quicker someone can get into and participate in treatment and 12 step meetings the better. AAROD allows this to happen because of the great reduction in longivity and severity of withdrawals. Like yourself we at MRODS believe in structured ongoing treatment. We have our own inpatient treatment program and extended care halfway houses and strongly encourage patients post rapid detox to enter directly into our ongoing treatment system, or assist them in finding one close to their home. Like yourself we also believe strongly in the spiritual componant of addiction. Thank you for your post.

Jake

Zoops
09-18-2005, 04:35 PM
That's a good point regarding the "no pain no gain" thing.

You're welcome.

I guess if it's progress in the right direction, it's worth something. Nothing's perfect.