Herbal mixture - WD Exterminator

[SuperJunky]

All right, I have a pretty hefty heroin habit. I've used a mixture of kratom and Tramadol to taper down on before, but lately when I take tramadol it just makes me feel like absolute shit, makes my cigarettes taste like absolute crap. I was thinking of ordering up some pods. But I dint want to just use pod tea. This is my idea.

Take all the pods I get, at least 4 cups of powdered pods(any idea of how many pods that would be, any suggestions on where I order from at the moment? PM me). Put the pod powder in a big commercial blender, add 1 shot of lemon juice, 1 chewable vitamin C pill and the rest water, enough to make it soupy. Blend the shit out of it, let sit over night and blend again in the morning. Strain and put the liquid in a large pot. After that add another vitamin c pill and another shot of lemon juice, plus 4 or 5 shots of everclear. Blend a couple times during the day and let sit over night again, strain and add to the pot. Then add 3 or 4 large tablespoons of agrilime, blend through out the day and strain again in the morning. Put all three pulls into the big kettle.

Next is the Kava Kava. Take a box of kava tea bags, make a big kettle of tea. Add to the main pot w/ a bottle of kava liquid extract. Heat and put a fan over it until its a cup of liquid or so.

Now for the salvia miltiorrhiza root. Whats the best way to extract this stuff? Is the good alkaloids soluble in water, or what about alchohol? I was thinking of doing two pulls, one with water and another w/ everclear. I was thinking of using roughly 500-600 grams. This would be the herbal benzo. Add this to the main kettle.

Then comes the kratom. I was thinking 1 4oz. bottle of the 90% mitragynine, 1 4oz. bottle of the 7acetoxymitragynine, a gram of the 7% alkaloid extract and a gram of the resin extract. Dissolve in a cup of hot water to the best of my ability and add to the main kettle.

Blue Lotus. I was thinking of making a tea out of 1 oz of blue lotus and 2 oz of the white. Then dissolve 1 gram of blue lotus extract resin into it and add to the main kettle.

Nigella Sativa Seed Oil. I was thinking maybe 5 or 6 oz, right into the main kettle.

Vocagna Africana Root Bark. Maybe just a quick water extract on 5 grams. My theory here is that its related to iboga and that is supposed to help suppress cravings etc. I don't want this mixture to be psychadelic, jusrt WD killing.

Now for some Kanna. I have smoked this herb before and been quite surprised w/ its effectiveness (could some one please explain the difference between effect and affect? I'm really confused on this one and I hate it.). I would use 6 grams and do both a water and an everclear pull, put them together, boil down and add to the main pot.

Corydalis. Add 14 grams of 5x extract to the main pot.

Lactuca virosa. Add 5 grams 5x to the main pot.

Coca Tea. I would use maybe 10 tea bags, reduce to a couple of cups and pour into the main kettle.

Then I would take the main pot, after it has been allowed to sit for a few days w/ occasional stirring, put it on very low heat and reduce the volume down to 8 cups or so, strain it through a jelly bag, then a coffee filter. After that I would continue to reduce it over low heat until I get roughly 4 cups. Then I was thinking I would take 1 shot in the morning w/ a shot of codeine/phenergan cough syrup and 75mg of benadryl.

What does every one think? I realize this is going to be pretty damned expensive, but its almost 100% legal (except the coca and pods). This should be an extremely potent mixture, containing many many plant allies. I figure between the dopamine drugs and the opiates w/ the herbal benzo it would be pretty damned effective. What does every one think about my dose of a shot (1oz)? I would start there and work my way up. I'm sure this stuff will taste like absolute ass hole. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Anything any one thinks I should leave out or put in? I'm kinda hesitant about the Vocagna Africana. Sorry for the long post, and thanks to those of you that are still reading.

(http://www.phytoextractum.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=53&zenid=5d06cf8b507b13741b7935d63892337d)

[I-Nod]

I don't have any personal experiences w/ quite a few of the herbs and extracts you mention, but am familiar w/ most all of them (thanks to Ophiles). I would suggest, however, that you add the vodka to the pod tea first thing. In the past I have had tea get "moldy" (a film on top of the liquid and a white semi-solid blob floating on top) in 24hrs. I can count on 2 fingers how many times thats happened, but seems if the pods have any bacteria... it will grow rapidly, but nothing some vodka shouldn't take care of. Just a suggestion. Wish I had some of your SuperJunky brew!! :D

[HistoryofMadness]

Ok a couple of things up front, but before that, I'll say that the herbal approach is great for me because it also doubles as a hobby.

1. Your pod recipe is waaaay too much trouble. If I understand your goal, the best way is to do the following (assuming you have 4 cups of pod powder):

one cup pods, saturated with everclear in a sealable (airtight glass pref) container, shake this mix at least once an hour for one day. strain (don't use a cloth or coffee filter! metal or plastic only), and combine cup 2 of powder in same liquid (may have to add more everclear).

SAVE THE GROUNDS FROM THE EACH WASH! Put in freezer. Repeat above, and add cup 3 of pods.

The forth cup you have been dosing on 2 tbsp per day (adjust potentiators not this #) while you wait.

Now use that combo to put small doses of 'laudy' tm (short-cut laudenum - yeah i'm trade marking that word!) in with your other meds.

2. Make ALL your teas seperately. This is very important. Don't mix herbs until you have all the extractions done, and then mix them per dose (b/c doses will change)... trust me on this one, really, you'll see why.

3. Invest in a cheap encapsulator and skip all the tea making... taper within the compounds of herbs by mixing steadily lower levels of pod and more of the others... pills are better to quantify plus they satisfy some of that junk ritual WD.

4. Salvia Milt (danshen): Don't waste your time and material trying to extract. Purchase the 5x product (phyto (http://www.phytoextractum.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=22)). If you don't get an encapsulator then the best way to ingest is by heating up a half cup of water to almost boiling and put your dose in, stir well, let cool, then knock back at once. chase with a shot of laudy.

stretch this stuff... small doses up front and grow them as you go... you will need it most when you're almost off the laudy. small dose is 1g-2g... a good big dose for the high blood pressure and high anxiety levels is somewhere between 8g and 15g...

5. Kratom in my opinion should be handled as follows: bulk of purchase in regular leaves. Do invest in the 2 isolates. take those as far away from the last dose of laudy as possible, one at a time per 24 hours.

leaf should also be encapsulated if possible. second best - grit'n'juice. last: tea, but make seperately and add to liquid compound by the dose (no big pot... trust me its bad).

6. Vocagna Africana Root Bark is going to become psychedelic - you can't really make a small dose and if you fuck it up you've got to live with it for at least 24 hours. if you don't have a trip companion this will possibly lead you to a break...

Replace with Salvia D... blow your mind once with it, only if you've got someone else around, maybe at day 3... for the rest of the time prior, make a powerful extraction and use an eye dropper to dose it into your daily compound.

7. Stimulants / Anit-Depressants: Coca tea is great... include a few others for the hobby of it... Earl Grey is a natural anti-d... Yerba Matte is fun/different... Make your own special mix of lemon ginger, that'll help in many ways... all of these together would make a killer upper tea, but be sure to eat an hour before and have crackers on hand...

8. Various hebrs: I'd find a good herb store, where they have the glass jars of many kinds of herbs, and get a handful of several. Think in terms of (1) health, (2) potentiating, and (3) relaxing and SLEEP above all.

Passion flower is great, and its very relaxing when smoked, to me similar to shitty weed (in a good way), just shorter life.

Valerian is a must, but you want to encapsulate it or just pinch, chew, and swallow. Don't make tea with it, or you'll see why, and I'll get to say "i tole you so"

Chamomille is a great potentiator as well as an all around great herb.

Get echinacea, skull cap, lavendar (great in small doses in tea), elderberries, black cohosh, and whatever else floats your boat. This is where the real hobby part comes in. Its fun to play around with all the different things, making tea, capsules, sludge, etc and it takes a while.

Get some adrenal support herbs (contact me for more info)... get some stuff to support your internal organs (milk thistle, etc).

9. The following will help you in ways you can only imagine: tagamet, loperadime (sp? fuckit), various poppies other than somni (helps and for fun and research), and make SURE TO GET Omega 3 supplements.

10. Drink water and eat whole foods, and seriously consider a fast. You're already going to be feeling like shit, why not?

[jacky]

be careful with the nigella sativa oil, thymoquinone has killed animals in its pure form I think.

I also have gotten some weird side effects when consuming larger amounts of this oil, like a half a cup made me pretty friggin sick feeling at work. I have even gotten a little woozy from taking smaller amounts at work with my standard opiate dose.

and swallowing 5-6 ounces might also give you the shits.

[Opiyum]

Ok a couple of things up front, but before that, I'll say that the herbal approach is great for me because it also doubles as a hobby.

1. Your pod recipe is waaaay too much trouble. If I understand your goal, the best way is to do the following (assuming you have 4 cups of pod powder):

one cup pods, saturated with everclear in a sealable (airtight glass pref) container, shake this mix at least once an hour for one day. strain (don't use a cloth or coffee filter! metal or plastic only), and combine cup 2 of powder in same liquid (may have to add more everclear).

SAVE THE GROUNDS FROM THE EACH WASH! Put in freezer. Repeat above, and add cup 3 of pods.

The forth cup you have been dosing on 2 tbsp per day (adjust potentiators not this #) while you wait.

Now use that combo to put small doses of 'laudy' tm (short-cut laudenum - yeah i'm trade marking that word!) in with your other meds.

2. Make ALL your teas seperately. This is very important. Don't mix herbs until you have all the extractions done, and then mix them per dose (b/c doses will change)... trust me on this one, really, you'll see why.

3. Invest in a cheap encapsulator and skip all the tea making... taper within the compounds of herbs by mixing steadily lower levels of pod and more of the others... pills are better to quantify plus they satisfy some of that junk ritual WD.

4. Salvia Milt (danshen): Don't waste your time and material trying to extract. Purchase the 5x product (phyto (http://www.phytoextractum.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=22)). If you don't get an encapsulator then the best way to ingest is by heating up a half cup of water to almost boiling and put your dose in, stir well, let cool, then knock back at once. chase with a shot of laudy.

stretch this stuff... small doses up front and grow them as you go... you will need it most when you're almost off the laudy. small dose is 1g-2g... a good big dose for the high blood pressure and high anxiety levels is somewhere between 8g and 15g...

5. Kratom in my opinion should be handled as follows: bulk of purchase in regular leaves. Do invest in the 2 isolates. take those as far away from the last dose of laudy as possible, one at a time per 24 hours.

leaf should also be encapsulated if possible. second best - grit'n'juice. last: tea, but make seperately and add to liquid compound by the dose (no big pot... trust me its bad).

6. Vocagna Africana Root Bark is going to become psychedelic - you can't really make a small dose and if you fuck it up you've got to live with it for at least 24 hours. if you don't have a trip companion this will possibly lead you to a break...

Replace with Salvia D... blow your mind once with it, only if you've got someone else around, maybe at day 3... for the rest of the time prior, make a powerful extraction and use an eye dropper to dose it into your daily compound.

7. Stimulants / Anit-Depressants: Coca tea is great... include a few others for the hobby of it... Earl Grey is a natural anti-d... Yerba Matte is fun/different... Make your own special mix of lemon ginger, that'll help in many ways... all of these together would make a killer upper tea, but be sure to eat an hour before and have crackers on hand...

8. Various hebrs: I'd find a good herb store, where they have the glass jars of many kinds of herbs, and get a handful of several. Think in terms of (1) health, (2) potentiating, and (3) relaxing and SLEEP above all.

Passion flower is great, and its very relaxing when smoked, to me similar to shitty weed (in a good way), just shorter life.

Valerian is a must, but you want to encapsulate it or just pinch, chew, and swallow. Don't make tea with it, or you'll see why, and I'll get to say "i tole you so"

Chamomille is a great potentiator as well as an all around great herb.

Get echinacea, skull cap, lavendar (great in small doses in tea), elderberries, black cohosh, and whatever else floats your boat. This is where the real hobby part comes in. Its fun to play around with all the different things, making tea, capsules, sludge, etc and it takes a while.

Get some adrenal support herbs (contact me for more info)... get some stuff to support your internal organs (milk thistle, etc).

9. The following will help you in ways you can only imagine: tagamet, loperadime (sp? fuckit), various poppies other than somni (helps and for fun and research), and make SURE TO GET Omega 3 supplements.

10. Drink water and eat whole foods, and seriously consider a fast. You're already going to be feeling like shit, why not?

Like I said before I wish I drank herbal tea's. A year here and I still live with me mum. I seriously need to get my own mailing address...and oven....and freezer....and coffee grinder...etc.

[scikid]

I can definatly see that helping. Seems like you've put alot of thought into it. Good luck and be careful!

[Sitar]

I think adding Kava Kava to a pod mixture would just ruin the pods. I personally think the stuff is nasty; tastes horrible and does absolutely nothing worthwhile.

And really, there's no need to add anything to poppy pods. They're really fucking strong just on their own. If you're gonna use them to replace heroin, they will work very well on their own. There's no need to add anything but water.

[SuperJunky]

I think adding Kava Kava to a pod mixture would just ruin the pods. I personally think the stuff is nasty; tastes horrible and does absolutely nothing worthwhile.

And really, there's no need to add anything to poppy pods. They're really fucking strong just on their own. If you're gonna use them to replace heroin, they will work very well on their own. There's no need to add anything but water.

I was hoping of using a mixture so I could get away w/ less opiate, maybe kick back a litle bit. I really need to refine that, HOM might be right, I might be better off keeping shit seperate,I already have a fetish for chemically altering my mood at will, I might get more pleasure by mixing and matching by "feel"

[SuperJunky]

be careful with the nigella sativa oil, thymoquinone has killed animals in its pure form I think.

I also have gotten some weird side effects when consuming larger amounts of this oil, like a half a cup made me pretty friggin sick feeling at work. I have even gotten a little woozy from taking smaller amounts at work with my standard opiate dose.

and swallowing 5-6 ounces might also give you the shits.

It would be 5 or 6 oz in many oz of liquid, I would only get a fraction of that dose, Really need to tweak it

[Sitar]

From personal experience, I gotta say that trying to taper with pods is next to impossible. They're just not even as far as doses from pod to pod is concerned, and if you take a little, what's gonna stop you from taking more?

Bottom line is, you're probably gonna wind up taking whatever dose makes you well. Or high.

None of the other substances mentioned are opiates, so they're not gonna really help with a kick at all, IMO. I'd say order some pods and use them long enough to find a Sub doc if you really wanna quit.

Clonidine is great stuff for a kick and easy to obtain from a doc.

[SuperJunky]

I've heard clonodine is easy to get but every time I've tried the docs looked at me like I just asked for a gallon of pure fent and thrown me out after I refuse to go into there fuckin 30,000 dollar bupe program..

[jacky]

aaahhh, I see, the oil would be an ingredient for a multi dose batch....

I would leave the oil out of the brew as its not going to go into solution, just drink that on its own.....

the catuama brand or the similiar 4 herb blend at phyto had some effective use when I was cutting back my opiate dose, I ended up dropping my daily dose in half in a little over a week.

and in heantos, the detox liquid/herbal mixture I know that somewhere I have seven ingredients of the 13-14 written down.
right now I can remember
cinnamon bark (possibly the 120$ an ounce veitnamese "special" cinnamon)
ginger
liquorice

on a side not I just found some data from 2004 that the creator of heantos has got himself in trouble, seems some unreported deaths are connected with his detox program. also, I noticed one mention of fits and convulsions being a product of using dope after detoxing from one of the stronger heantos types. so does this stuff have a sort of antagonist backlash that the "good" inventor hasnt stressed enough?

[HistoryofMadness]

on a side not I just found some data from 2004 that the creator of heantos has got himself in trouble, seems some unreported deaths are connected with his detox program. also, I noticed one mention of fits and convulsions being a product of using dope after detoxing from one of the stronger heantos types. so does this stuff have a sort of antagonist backlash that the "good" inventor hasnt stressed enough?

not familiar... is this something discussed here @ ophile before or another thing altogether?

[jacky]

yeah, we have discussed this on other threads, basically it is a mixture of unknown contents , herbal ingredients.
the story behind this guys discovery is pretty interesting.
basically he went around different communities and researched what endemic plants the locals used to abate opium withdrawl and/or supplement their opium intake with.
then he created an extract...
3 different versions for different detox needs, maintenance etc.

there appears to be some reports of toxicity with the mixture if the person relapses, which needs more clarification I think,
I have my own candidates for additional ingredients...
so far we know that there is
ginger
cinnamon
liquorice

I know that there are more standard materials in there than just those, and I remember perhaps, a list of some 7 confirmed herbs that are in the mixture...I have not come across that info again though, so maybe I am confused.

if this stuff was just produced on fda approved machinery, at a clearinghouse in Turkey for example, the product could have been marketed here as a dietary supplement and in some european countries and most likely in alot of south american areas, that is if they listed the full ingredients....but the whole process was I think to complicated as a protected proprietary drug, even being used clinically in Vietnam before it was offered as just an herbal mixture. The Vietnamese authorities apparently seized all of his prepared heantos, and shut down the clinic.
this guy might have had better luck selling the stuff with various partners as a sort of ethnic type product, rather that creating the whole clinical environement where you assume more liability than just selling a blend of already legal herbs as a tonic.

so will we know learn the ingredients of heantos? or is this something that the authorities busted just cause they want the recipe and the money involved with distribution. maybe heantos will be catogorized some day in its entirety, I will keep wondering about that blend I am sure.

[Nostromos]

this is pretty damn interesting. even i've never heard of some of the herbs you mentioned, and i've been reading about drugs on and off-line for years and years. never concentrated on the legal shit, though. unfortunately, i still think you gotta find a way to grab some of the illegal shit for yourself if you really wanna kill the pain of life properly.

please elaborate on the grit n' juice, i always make teas out of whatever i buy- pods, kratom. i'm surprised someone kicking H finds pods strong enough. but i do think that non-opiate entheogens can help with opiate withdrawal in that they distract you. it's kind of a cold comfort, like having a mule bite you in the ass to make you stop thinking about a stomach-ache. but it works in its way.

[Sitar]

Why wouldn't pods be strong enough to help someone coming off of H? They're basically both the same drug: morphine.

And pods have the great advantage of lasting far longer than a shot of H. You can be good all day on a single dose of pods. And it's as strong as how ever much you take.

[mrklean]

Superjunk,
I am kind of confused about your intentions with this idea. What is your goal? Are you trying to kick a habit or start a different one or what? I don't think you are going to get a good nod without the H if thats what you're looking for. If you are just trying to kick H for awhile and not be sick then I would prolly exclude the pods from this program. If you want to really just exerminate WD and be clean to the point where you will not be sick or uncomfortable without taking anything at all on a daily basis, and do it without a doctor or any pharmaceuticals then definately do not use pods. Putting pod material into the equation will prolly only prolong suffering and most likely lead back to H. I find 5htp to be very beneficial in helping sleep and restoring a good mood. Smoking the blue lotus is a good activity to occupy yourself with and is soothing. Kratom really seems to be incredibly extraordinarily amazing stuff trust in it. If I was gonna do the all herbal detox from H it would be all about the kratom. I have never tried going straight from H to Kratom but, I beleive that with a good plan and other plant helpers it could be done pretty easy and without too much suffering. Keep in mind that you may be having a hard time drinking and eating these things and then keeping them down while you are sick. Smoking whatever materials you can would prolly be easier. I am very interested in the voacanga. I am particularly interested in the recreational potential of the bark as a psychedelic. I know jacky and others have not particularly enjoyed the seed. I can't find very much info on it though if anyone has a good link I would be stoked. Has anyone even heard of a positive trip report on the stuff?

[Somanax]

clonidine can drop your blood pressure so low it makes me so weak I can hardly move last time I used apatch it took my B.P. down to 60/40 I was so weak Icouldnt take it!!!!:(

[SuperJunky]

Superjunk,
I am kind of confused about your intentions with this idea. What is your goal? Are you trying to kick a habit or start a different one or what? I don't think you are going to get a good nod without the H if thats what you're looking for. If you are just trying to kick H for awhile and not be sick then I would prolly exclude the pods from this program. If you want to really just exerminate WD and be clean to the point where you will not be sick or uncomfortable without taking anything at all on a daily basis, and do it without a doctor or any pharmaceuticals then definately do not use pods. Putting pod material into the equation will prolly only prolong suffering and most likely lead back to H. I find 5htp to be very beneficial in helping sleep and restoring a good mood. Smoking the blue lotus is a good activity to occupy yourself with and is soothing. Kratom really seems to be incredibly extraordinarily amazing stuff trust in it. If I was gonna do the all herbal detox from H it would be all about the kratom. I have never tried going straight from H to Kratom but, I beleive that with a good plan and other plant helpers it could be done pretty easy and without too much suffering. Keep in mind that you may be having a hard time drinking and eating these things and then keeping them down while you are sick. Smoking whatever materials you can would prolly be easier. I am very interested in the voacanga. I am particularly interested in the recreational potential of the bark as a psychedelic. I know jacky and others have not particularly enjoyed the seed. I can't find very much info on it though if anyone has a good link I would be stoked. Has anyone even heard of a positive trip report on the stuff?

Kratoms to short acting, I was thinking about a small dose of everything, not a large one. I just need an alternative to scoring, getting high, getting sick cycle for a little while. I've taken doses of pod tea that did nothing but make me not sick for the day. If I take kratom I cant take a large enough of a dose to get me all the way through the night. Its not about trading one addiction for another, its the same addiction, just a different way of maintaining it. And if I lay off the H for a while w/ pods and kratom I should be able to get my tolerance down a little bit. The pods are just something that acts long enough to get me through the night, because your right if I'm in seriouse WD getting and keeping these things down can be a challange. I dont plan to nod, just feel a bit of an opieness for a couple weeks instead of getting loaded daily.

[mrklean]

Right on. Now I am clearer on what you are looking to do. I will be interested to see how much you are able to bring your tolerance down. Please keep us updated. I would also be interested to see a cost analysis. Money really seems to be the limiting factor in the search for my own never ending euphoria. I would love to know that a H habit can be comfortably maintained with cheaper alternatives. But, yeh having to go cop is enough of a reason to switch to something else for awhile. Being free of that chore is something I should thank God for.

[JahRed24]

salvia miltiorrhiza root is not considered a herbal benzo by any means....

[jacky]

well jahred, this salvia species does contain partial benzodiazepine agonists like miltirone and tanshinone and tanshinone2A...they are not muscular relaxants in activity though

I have taken these compounds in their pure form.

and apparently, a simple ring closure of some sort regarding miltirones structure can result in a compound 6x the strength of miltirone, compared in a benzo binding inhibition study.

I am not saying that these compounds are a replacement for valium, but they are LEAD research compounds that are being researched for benzo/alchohol/gaba agonist withdrawl supplementation.
one such research group in europe was specifically interested in miltirone, and was inquiring about purified amounts of the substance for research trials.

the possibility that this plant could aid alchohol withdrawl without causing significant benzo addiction is really important to research. I just had a freind die from alchohol withdrawl. a beer drinker mostly, and not the worst alcoholic that I have known.

I have taken the purified isolates of this plant, the 5x extract, and the raw root.

in my opinion the 5x extract is more active than just the isolates themselves. so maybe there is some synergistic activity with other compounds in that plant that lend to the "at peace, sedative" activity of this plant.

this plant doesnt exterminate withdrawl, but it does help in conjunction with other supplements.