"Pushing through" forced Buprenorphine withdrawals [Archive]

bi11i

07-31-2005, 03:16 PM

Definitely a hot-topic when it comes down to the big Buprenorphine switch is the length of time in withdrawal it takes a person before the switch, and what happens when not enough time has passed.

It seems like there's a 50/50 school - one half can wait until mild withdrawals set in and start taking bup, the other half has to wait almost twice as long or they end up in serious WD.

Personally, I'm grouped with those that can switch over fairly easily and without too much discomfort. I realize there's also other factors that play into this, such as what drug one is coming over from, the dose, etc. What I'm interested in is knowing what steps are taken by those that find themselves in forced Buprenorphine/Suboxone withdrawal, and if anyone as ever personally tried 'pushing through' the withdrawal by taking more and more Suboxone.

It's important to note that withdrawal is brought on by the partial agonist activity of buprenorphine, and NOT by the naloxone in the Suboxone - a totally different discussion altogether, anyway.

So with that in mind, has anyone here ever tried pushing through? I know that quite a few have complained of headaches as part of the forced withdrawal. I'm one of those prone to migraines and so I'd never even think of trying something that might make one worse, but if I was in desperation mode via forced withdrawal, I might think about taking so much bup, that one could 'push through' the bad and into a comfortable area.

I'd read accounts of this having been done with Buprenex, but never Subutex or Suboxone. (someone wanna give it a try?:vomit: )

Anyway, an interesting poll to follow...

shaunclo

08-02-2005, 06:18 PM

I stopped taking my suboxone for about 2 weeks not too long ago, and when I ran out of my stash, I went right back to taking the amount of suboxone I was on before. I DID wait until I felt w/d symptoms, but I think I didnt wait long enough. After about 3 hours after I dosed (suboxone) I got deep into the w/d's. I was freaking the hell out. So what I did was shoved a whole 8 mg up my arse (ouch) and took a couple of valiums. I woke up a couple hours later completely normal. I dont know - this suboxone shit is weird, but a life saver

bi11i

08-02-2005, 06:22 PM

Well now that's some seriously interesting shit, no pun intended. So waking up a couple of hours later, like two hours? Waking up after any amount of valium shy of several hours deserves mentioning, unless in a serious junk kick.

So your sub worked that way? What was your dose of sub before you stopped taking it the two weeks prior?

bdubya13

08-03-2005, 10:51 AM

Ok last tuesday stopped taling 16mg sub. Wednesday reintroduced opiates via patch....100mcg, a new kind with no jell that you can just chew...and that worked just fine. Friday thru Monday H aprox 150.00 per day, and that to worked well. Monday morning........no dope except sub, decieded to swallow 16 mg (heard it converts to norbupremorphine in the stomach and that stuff is more of an agonists than regular bup). Felt a little sick in the am but scored H by 5 pm, and the bup had little blocking effects. Tuesday morning picked up script for 120 7.5 vicaprofen's took 9 about an hour ago and fell pretty good....but what to do with the rest of day...ha

1badrabbit

08-03-2005, 11:47 AM

Well in response to the original question of this thread, I have taken sub after 12-14 hours of no opiates and withing 1 hour been in extreme withdrawals. Worse then any junk kick I have ever experienced by several times. It was insane, and there was nothing I could do to end the wd's. I took 2mg to start and when the wd's set in I took another 40 over the course of an hour and a half. Nothing seemed to help, I took 100mg of seroquel and finally passed out a little after 2 hours since the wd's started. I woke up periodically for a few hours at about the five hour mark (five hours since the beginning of wd's) I felt almost normal. So for me I was unable to get through the wd's I just had to tough them out. Since then I have come to find that it takes me about 18-24 hours of sobriety before I can safely take the sub.
To the last poster bupe especially in the form present in suboxone is not well absorbed orally. Very little of the bupe will make it into your bloodstream if you ate the tablets. Sublingually, nasally, rectally, and IV bupe is much better absorbd. However I have never heard of anyone with a significant tolerance experiencing much from bupe except IV. The poor oral absorbtion is what you experienced.

bi11i

08-03-2005, 12:01 PM

no dope except sub, decieded to swallow 16 mg (heard it converts to norbupremorphine in the stomach and that stuff is more of an agonists than regular bup). that's interesting - any info (links, etc) to back this up? I'd be interested in learning more. I took 2mg to start and when the wd's set in I took another 40 over the course of an hour and a half. Nothing seemed to help, I took 100mg of seroquel and finally passed out a little after 2 hours since the wd's started.so, was your normal dose of bup around 24mg's? If so, and you tried to push through with 40mgs, I wonder if it's not orally possible? Would another 40-80mg's have done it? Since then I have come to find that it takes me about 18-24 hours of sobriety before I can safely take the sub.
can you define just how sick you are when you switch? like what stage are you in? past the running nose and watery eyes? into the stomach? as much detail as possible - great info!

floger

08-05-2005, 01:38 AM

I switch back and forth from Bupe to Morphine at least 2 times a month. Depends on my Migraines.
I use low dose of Bupe dailey. I usually IV 0.3mg in the morning. I break suboxone into very small pieces. I get an 8mger into 8 pieces easy, then I try to get that small piece halved again. If I need a boost during the day I pop a piece. Can't believe someone swallowed Suboxone, what a waste. You won't get nada putting in the stomach. I used to worry that if I got a severe Migraine the Morphine would be usless because Bupe is so long acting. But that seems to work in my favor. If I get a Migraine and only 12 to 20 hours have passed since my last dose of bupe I'm in for a wait with Migraine pain. Usually at 20 hours I try IV Morphine. It only works if I have been really low dosing Bupe. At 24hrs Morphine works just fine. I have Actiq too. I'm not impressed by Fentanyl. IV Morphine works great in combination with a lollipop.

Now going from Morphine to Bupe is a snap for me. I just wait 24 hours and IV 0.3mg. And I'm back to being at a 4 on the pain scale.
Bupe used to lift my mood, literaly. Now that I have used it almost daily for 10 months I don't feel the lift anymore. But I am afraid to stop Bupe because I have not been depressed since I started using Bupe.

bi11i

08-05-2005, 02:08 PM

But I am afraid to stop Bupe because I have not been depressed since I started using Bupe.Great info on Opioids.com about this: http://opioids.com/buprenorphine/buprefdep.html

I don't feel the lift anymore, either. I thought for sure if I made the switch back to subutex from suboxone, I'd get that lift back, but in all honesty, I think that lift was my body coming down from a two year opiate bender (at least coming down the 70% it takes to get to the 30% ceiling of bup...?)

So when you say IV .3, are you referring to ampules of Buprenex, or just an 8mg Suboxone into small enough pieces? I know that bup acts quite a bit differently at low dosages - so are you saying that you actually get more out of the bup by IVing at super low doses?

Great, nice, superb feedback, thanks....!

floger

08-06-2005, 05:09 AM

Norphin 2ml/0.3mg/ml amps. The suboxone, I use sublingual.ly. in 06mg dose. A piece equal to 2 or 3 Temgeic. I just hate the stigma attached to the way you take a Pharmaceutical.
I've had some bouts with depression. And have used all tools available, including Pharmaceuticals, to not be depressed. Yea Prozac. High blood Pressure? Yea Norvasc. Some of the Nsaids like Ketoprofen are so much better then Asprin. But, Geez, where would we be with out Asprin.

Anyway, I just don't feel that depression I used to feel. I was shocked when Subutex and suboxone hit the market at 2mg and 8mg. I used Temgesic for pain 2-3 .2mg sublinquals 2 times a day. It never helped a Migraine. I have never taken 8mg in one dose. Gee, I might try that some day. Subutex is gold to me. 4 8mgers is a whole month at a 4 pain level. I feel pleasant, if that makes sense. I could stay happy on .3mg IV'd every 12 hours. But Amps, Tems, both Subs are damn hard to come by. 3 years ago a box of Temgesic were easily had at $40 . A 3 week supply for me. Now that same box is $100, if you can find it. Nuts, just Nuts.

.

1badrabbit

08-06-2005, 09:08 PM

"so, was your normal dose of bup around 24mg's? If so, and you tried to push through with 40mgs, I wonder if it's not orally possible? Would another 40-80mg's have done it?"

Yes my daily dose of bupe was 24mgs and no I don't think another 40-80mgs would have helped. The reason being that everything I have read and the two dr.'s I have talked to have told me that doses above 24-30mg are not absorbed by the body. So really any bupe over 24-30mg will just be a waste, and won't provide anymore effects. You have heard of the "ceiling" of effects for bupe right? Thats what it means since bupe is a partial agonist not a full agonist like methadone or herion there is a point where more med doesn't equal more effects. I am told that ceiling occurs at 24-30mg give or take a bit for differences between various people.

"can you define just how sick you are when you switch? like what stage are you in? past the running nose and watery eyes? into the stomach? as much detail as possible - great info!"

Normally I have to get to the point of sneezing fits, watery eyes, yawning, stomach cramping, sweating, goosebumps, and hot/cold feelings where you shiver so bad it almost looks like you had a miny seizure haha. Also I usually have the crawling skin feeling and feel really restless. It sucks I really have to be feeling pretty shitty to make the switch or I will be sick as hell.

peacefulwarrior

08-07-2005, 10:03 PM

floger

08-08-2005, 01:53 AM

The suboxone will stop the withdrawals. I have friends that have kicked the Hydro habit with suboxone. They went from 3 8mgs a day down to 3 2mgs a day down to 2mgs a day and then 1 mg a day. then off with mild wd's.

1badrabbit

08-08-2005, 03:03 PM

Im gettin on suboxone in a few days and Im a little confused about this...My doc says to wait 24 hours after my last opiate b4 taking the sub but will I still have these "intense withdrawals" when I take it- or will it cool down the withdrawals from the last 24 hours.

Im absolutely frightened about the whole situation and Im wondering if gettin on sub is gonna be any easier to kick than the oxy. Am I simply replacing one addiction for another and will being on sub for the next year fuck me up anymore than ox has already? Has anyone actually kicked oxy or H and gotten to a place where they can be happy with their life and not crave opiates? Have I hardwired my brain to crave permanently? Sorry for the ranting im obviously freakin out and any advice would be so helpful.

Not trying to be a pessimistic or anything so please don't take it that way.
Yes your doc is right you should wait 24 hours before taking the suboxone as it will garuantee that you won't get withdrawals from it. After you take the sub it will help the wd's from the last 24 hours however it didn't ever make me feel fully better. But for a lot of people it does in my case I felt best on it after about 2 days. The first two days of treatment I still felt kinda sick but nothing like full dopesickness.

Suboxone is defnitely addictive and some people have a very difficult time kicking it after staying on it for an extended period of time. Personally I would stay on it for as little time as possible to minimize the difficulty in getting off. Whether or not its trading one addiction for another is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. There is a forum on www.heroin-detox.com (http://www.heroin-detox.com) devoted to suboxone it has a lot of good info on tapering and peoples experiences trying to get off sub.

Has anyone ever kicked H or Oxy and gotten to a place were they are happy with their life? Well of course people have done this, whether with the help of rehab, methadone, sub, 12 step, or even cold turkey people accomplish this all the time. As far as craving opiates methadone and sub are both supposed to help eliminate the craving for opiates and methadone seems to help me for this purpose pretty well. Sub also has helped a lot of people for that purpose as well. I am sure people who quit cold turkey, rehab, or taper off another med probably accomplish this quite often as well. But I personally haven't heard of very many people who stay craving free their whole life. The overwhelming statistics are that almost all opiate addicts end up relapsing or returning to using opiates permanently. Very few people get clean and stay clean forever. The highest percentage of success as far as getting clean and staying off of their DOC choice is definitely with some sort of maintanence treatment like sub or methadone. For this reason many people end up on maintanence for the rest of their life. This is not to say you can't get clean with sub and taper off it while staying clean. Depending on the length of time using, amount used, and what you used though this can be very difficult to do. Sadly enough like I said above not many accomplish this.

My sub doctor told me (during my first meeting with him) that after only a couple of years of opiate/heroin abuse I should plan on staying on sub for the rest of my life if I wanted to be clean. Who knows what treatments and advances will come down the road that could help opiate addicts get clean forever. Right now though I have come to terms with the fact that I might be on methadone for the rest of my life it was hard to do but I had to. You might be the same you might not its definitely something to think about though. Sorry about that long rant hope some of it helped you out.

bi11i

08-09-2005, 01:06 PM

Personally, I would give anything to get off of the suboxone. The side effects are just as intense as any other opiate, and it's just as costly. I have, however, used buprenorphine over a period of three days to successfully detox from Heroin. Painlessly.

Now if they could only come up with a bup to get off the bup....?

smokewagon

10-20-2005, 03:36 PM

Now if they could only come up with a bup to get off the bup....?

nothing scares me more...i have dreams my rehab doc decides it's time for me to come off bup (i've been on it for 2 years)...although i know this probably won't happen, the place i go to is pretty liberal and understands if i want to stay on it the rest of my life...i have a feeling coming off of it will be just as bad as detoxing from OC and/or H...

i even go so far as to take as little of my subs as possible per day, just in case this happens, i still have a good supply to ween myself off of it...

as far as answering the question about withdrawl, my transition to subbers was 100% painless, no withdrawls...i've even taken an 8mg suboxone and then did a 80mg OC (crushed/swallowed), and i got pretty high off the OC...it wasn't as intense as it was when i wasn't on subbers, but it still made me feel great for about an hour.

blahblahblah

12-07-2005, 11:41 AM

Im part of the half that gets no w/d's when I switch over I hop'd off bupe a few weeks back. Replaced it with heroin multiple times daily for about 20 days. Took bupe about 12hrs after my last heroin dose, I was in slight w/d [anxiety, aches, runny nose, positioned to use again] from the heroin. Insufflated 4mg felt better with in a couple minutes another 1/2 hr or so snorted another 4mg and 2hr later 4mg more. I was on 12mg of Klonapin, 8mg of Ativan, and 40mg of Ambien. 3rd day after the switch and no issues. I have been taking Buprenorphine for over 3 years.

shaunclo

12-07-2005, 12:59 PM

Hey BlahBlah, so you snorted a 4 mg pill of suboxone or subutex? I am curious as to which one you used.

blahblahblah

12-10-2005, 01:41 PM

shawnclo-

It was Suboxone. I always snort my doses of Suboxone but only if I am habituated at a stable dose of 1-4mgs otherwise too much powder. The Naloxone does not come into play, nor does it come into play in rectal dosing, which makes me wonder really how much of an effect it would have in an IV administration.

hmmm...

mmnyc9

03-07-2006, 05:15 PM

What if there is a Medical emergency how is Pain handled? I would think most Drs wouln't know what to do.

bi11i

03-07-2006, 05:29 PM

I imagine the pain simply wouldn't be addressed. A little Narcan and away we go....!

blahblahblah

03-08-2006, 07:07 PM

Last time I was hospitalized on bupe maintenence I was hitting w/d stage when I asked my doctor that happens to work at the hospital what can he give me for pain [bad asthma problem hurt when I coughed]. He knew I was on bupe maintenence and since I was do for my dose instead a nurse came around the corner with specific instructions 3mg's of hydromorphone shot into my butterfly that was tapped to my hand 4 times a day for the 3 days I stayed in the hospital. Tried to get a take home script of dilaudid but my doc just kinda laugh and instead sent me home with a big ol' bottle of hydro syrup 10mg/mL something like 250mL.

My bupe doctor at one time years ago when bupe was first approved wanted me to wear an ID brclet similiar to ones I diabetic would wear or one would wear if allergic to certain meds. Bupe has such a super high affinity for the opiate receptor sites its almost hard at times for a bupe OD to be reversed with Naloxone as it just isnt strong enough. I can provide documentation if anybody wants it. Also I have injected Suboxone [containg Naloxone on quite a few occasions], I usually dont go over 4mg of Suboxone when injecting as I dont like to push the threshold of possibly Naloxone interference although rare because of buprenorphines high affinty for opiate receptors. I will post my trails of IV Suboxone on my JL blog in the near future. You DO NOT get thrown into w/d's contrary to commmon belief, although sometimes the Naloxone will manifest a negative side-effect in a dull headache. Which is quite common with Suboxone users and an easy way to get switched over to Subutex as Naloxone is known to cause headaches.

Peace.
The one with out seeds

benz doctor

05-03-2006, 05:56 PM

when do these bup WDs stop !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was taking 120mg a day. i stopped that on sun. took a 40 on monday. and know wed took sub and it bad

thanks BENZ DOCTOR

shaunclo

05-03-2006, 06:19 PM

when do these bup WDs stop !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was taking 120mg a day. i stopped that on sun. took a 40 on monday. and know wed took sub and it bad

thanks BENZ DOCTOR

You were taking 120 mg's of buprenorphine??? Thats a shitload, thats more than you can even absorb. I thhink the ceiling affect hits around 32 mg. Are you sure it was 120mg's?? And were you taking suboxone or subutex and also how long???

benz doctor

05-03-2006, 07:04 PM

120mg methadone

thanks benzdoctor

bi11i

05-04-2006, 10:33 AM

you're probably in for at least a week - maybe two? I don't know - switching from methadone to bup is a killer. I'm not qualified to answer this question though (so why'd I post, shit I don't know) so perhaps someone else could who's gone this route?

vanilla_mlkshake2007

05-04-2006, 12:04 PM

This is my experience w/suboxones.First of all I actually ran into the drug quite by accident last Thanksgiving.I had run out of my morphines and the town was dry of any opiates,as far as I could tell.Anyways I knew I was going to be in serious w'/d's,never mind that I had a huge dinner to prepare for the next day.
Well anyways one of my connections called and had the small suboxones 2 mg.s I think.At the time I had no idea about the drug in it that makes it worthless to inject.I bought 3 of them(would you believe I'm such a sucker that I paid $15 a piece),but anyways when I came home I (who IV morphine as my drug of choice and have a monster tolerance) crushed 1 pill in a spoon and drew it up in an insulin syringe.I then injected it.At first I got a feeling like I have when my valiums first kick in,but after that I was up all night and high just as if I would have done a li'l morphine or an Oxy.I'm not saying I was as high but it did the trick.
The next day I did it all over again and if it wasn't for that I would have never been able to get out of bed ,never mind cooking a wonderful dinner for my family.
Since then I am still on morphine but recently I started seeing a DR. and am receiving 3 8 mg. suboxones a day so I get 90 a month.I am so scared to start the program.I mean I love my morphine but I also wanna get clean.IM SO CONFUSED!!!LOL

benz doctor

05-05-2006, 12:17 AM

Well as you can probably tell those horribe W/Ds seem to be over. It only lasted about 24hrs. (not as bad as IV Didaluid or C/T from Methadone) It was about as bad as Nubain or a little worse than Loratab. Like I said I was on 120mgs.day of Methadone/illeagy for a year. My last dose (Meth) was on Sunday @ 2pm (with a Bup. appt on Monday)
At that appt. the Doctor told me "Great, your allready 24hrs in, come see me on Weds morning (since you need to have not dosed for 48hrs")
Well I'm sure I don't need to explain myself here!! I'm sure everyone here can count, and see that Sun 2pm to Weds morning is longer than 48hrs!! So my evel twin counted back from my proposed new appt. of 2pm Wed. 48 hrs to MONDAY at 1pm (makes scence, right??)
Well on my appt. Wed, I went in and dosed with one 8mg. And nodded off--So far so good. Well then I got dosed with another 4mg. and then those ever so wonderfull feelings come rushing back. You know the ones the projectile liquid from those places. The ever so wonderfull feelings that we all are trying to advoid. Even the smell of your sweat. YUK.
Well the withdrawls were not nice, but only lasted for 24 hours
I hope this helps BENZ DOCTOR

lukilu

05-05-2006, 01:00 AM

Hey Benz, Did your Doc dose you with Suboxone or Subutex for your first time ? Just curious .

Lukilu

albert7

05-05-2006, 03:30 AM

:cool: HEY WHATS UP PEOPLE? WHEN I JUMPED FROM H TO SOBOXONE MY DOCTOR SAID DONT TAKE ANYTHING PASS 12 MIDNIGHT, SO I DIDNOT MY APPOINTMENT WAS 930AM THE NEXT DAY, HE SENT ME ACROSS THE STREET TO THE DRUG STORE AND MY SUB WAS WAITING FOR ME WITH MY DOCTORS HELP , HE TOLD ME TO COME BACK IN 45 MINUTES TO SEE HOW I FELT MAN I HAD NO MORE WITHDRAWALS IMEATILY I BEEN ON THEASE SUBS FOR ABOUT 3 MONTHS NOW I FEEL 100 PERCENT BETTER DROPPED A LITTLE WEIGHT BUT I NEEDED TO DO THAT ANYWAYS. ALL I CAN SAY ABOUT SUB IS IT WORKS FOR ME AND IT TAKES YOUR DEPRESSION AWAY TO. IF ANYONE NEEDS MORE INFO LET ME NO I CAN HELP. LATER

shaunclo

05-05-2006, 10:22 AM

Yes subs works like a life-saver, IF you use them right. You need to wait till you are in w/ds, otherwise they will throw you into w/d's which isnt fun. Butyeah, the stuff is a miracle drug. Now if we could just find another drug to get us off the suboxone. That makes me laugh

bi11i

05-09-2006, 10:11 AM

I split part of this thread to be now found here: http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=2144

theobarbital

06-11-2006, 12:41 PM

ive been on suboxone for about 6 months. daily, no other dope. tomorrow i see if i can switch to methadone. how long will i have to be sick before i can take the methadone. i've heard people say it takes weeks to detox from suboxone. then i've read some people fix up after a day or less on opiates. when i entered treatment, they made me withdraw from methadone for 4 days and i dosed bupe on the fifth. guys i am terrified of the withdrawal from this:(. i havent been dopesick in months, i bet i forgot about some of those terrible feelings.:sickinbed someone give me an estimate for how long it would take to successfully wd from 32 mgs/daily, in order to dose on dones again.

vanilla_mlkshake2007

06-11-2006, 01:15 PM

Hey BlahBlah, so you snorted a 4 mg pill of suboxone or subutex? I am curious as to which one you used.
I know your question was to BlahBlahBlah, but I just wanna let you know my experience .It was last Thanksgiving and in my small city nobody had nothing for sale not a pill,bag nothing.Well someone finally called with a drug I had never heard of at the time it was sub oxone 4mg. and they wanted $15 a piece for them.Normally I'd say go fuck yourself but Thanksgiving and Withdrawals just wouldn't have gone well together so I bought 3.Now I had no idea you were not suppose to inject them,so I crushed and injected a 4 mg.suboxone.Not only did I catcha lil buzz(I mean lil) off of it,it did all the things an opiate would do like keep me up all night,energy,no feeling blahs like you do with withdrawals.It was also a very easy drug to inject,unlike Morphine which I find very hard to inject(but then again I don't heat it).I know probably not the right way but a whole other thread,so I myself think that it is harmless and actually great if you have nothing at all.Now I mean it when I say if you have nothing at all,but the 4 mg. suboxone lasted me from morning throughout the whole day for withdrawing and I have a monster tolerence,so I hope I helped answer your question a bit.

Lil_Miss_Brownstone

06-19-2006, 01:32 AM

The first time I got on suboxone, I had a $60-$100 day H habit, I did my last H the night before, went to the doc just starting to wd, he gave me the script and said wait until my nose started to run (I was already sweating). I took the first sub the second my nose started to run, an 8 mg i think....I did not feel much better. I ended up jumping in the car and going to score some H. I did not feel shit from IVing the H, but it was a new source (street copping) so I thought it may have been garbage, i didn't realize how the opiate blocker worked. I had heard doing H while on sub would make you sick and it didn't, but i didn't get high either.

The next i decided to try again. I took the sub before my hard kick set in, but a good 10-12 hrs after my last H. (those were the days...much smaller habit back then. ) I kept the worst kick from ever coming on, which is important for me...once the hard kick sets in, I'm done for the day. even if I get well later, I just fall asleep. It's like the sickness just drains all my energy. I can do like 2 grams of H and I still am completely useless.

Anyway, so I take the suboxone and my bad kick never sets in. I take another one later. I take one the next day, and then later, and I made in 2-3 days before i fell off the wagon and started using H again. no fault of the suboxone, all my fuck up there.

A few weeks later I've just had enough and I'm gonna check into a suboxone detox center. I get high the morning i'm going in at 3pm. I spend a couple hours in intake, then I find out i will have to share a room while i kick. I panic and leave. The next morning, I pack up and go up north to my family's cabin with nothing but one 8mg suboxone, a handful of seroquil and ambiens, sominex, robotussinDM, and chocolate candy. I take the sub that night, and my kick was very mild. Not half as bad as I had gone through the last few times before that. Lasted about 3 days. couldn't sleep, couldn't hold still, blah blah blah, but not half as bad as i thought it would be.

the next experience with suboxone i had was last summer. The sub I was getting just was not a high enough dosage I think, I was no less sick, just couldn't get high.

This winter I tried some I got from a friend. I did not wait nearly long enough to take it, i was still high, and I got the sickest I have ever been. vics helped a little. Never do that! I was puking and shitting within an hour of dosing the suboxone. 2 11mg pills.

ZodiacKiller

06-19-2006, 03:12 AM

^ No offense to you personally, Lil_Miss_Brownstone, but your post is pretty much a guide for all the wrong ways to use Suboxone. I think if used properly, and by properly I also mean having your mental mind-set adjusted accordingly, that Sub can be pretty much the wonder drug it is touted to be.

Now don't get me wrong, I am in no way a poster boy for Suboxone therapy or maintenance, because I use it to manage my withdrawal between runs of heroin, however, I have not experienced any precipitated withdrawal from it, and have used it to lower tolerance and become completely clean. So I guess I'm saying that if you use it wisely, it can be a most helpful tool.

Coddfish

06-19-2006, 01:20 PM

For what it's worth, zk and I agree totally. I believe it can be a wonder drug to most all addicts if they can figure out how to use it for their needs, whatever those are. Whether using it like zk does between runs, a prolonged hiatus like I use it, or detoxing completey off the junk 'forever,' (not too metion every situation in between). But getting yourself a plan for what you wanna do is a big part of it. Like 'I am NOT gonna use for at least 2 weeks,' or 'I just wanna get through tonight,' or 'I am never using again.' That's the kinda shit it seems people hafta get right in their head before they start fucking too much with sub. just going in willy nilly (ha never used that term before) usually ends in wasted dope at best, in terrible wd's at worst. just mo.

Truuper

06-19-2006, 03:15 PM

What an appropriate topic. A couple weeks ago "my friend" - who has been on bupe for 9 months - went on a 4 day bender viewing arrangements. From 5mg subutex/day she woke up one morning and instead of taking Sub took to viewing instead. Within 1/2 hour she was having the best viwing in the past 18 months. But all good things pass and she had to go back on Sub a few days later. After 15 hour wait, she took 2mg Sub nasally and broke out in sweats, got naseous, and started freaking. Generally shaky all day. It wasn't until the afternoon of the next day that she was "normal" and completly switched back. When she originally went on Sub from arranging she had waited 35 hours and had no forced W/D. So here's the best way to do it if you are coming from floral arranging to Sub in her opinion:

Wait til you are starting to go into w/d - 18 to 24hrs - and then take enough short actors like hydro to get you through that day. Quit taking hydro at 8pm. Got to bed. Then 12-15 hrs later you should be able to take Sub with no fear. If you dont have hydro then do your last viewing in the AM and dont take Sub til the PM of the next day. Even then you might be shakey.

Anyway, my friend is in the process of switching back and took her last this AM at 9:30. I will report back tomorrow and tell you how her switch went.

The main thing is THE ALKALOIDS that get in ones system from flower arranging have a half life nearly as long as buprenorphine. Maybe longer. You can minimize the pain of switching but I don't believe you can eliminate it if you do not have some hydro to help. My friend has a lot of expertise in this and that is her conclusion. If anybody has any other ideas on this she'ld love to hear them.

Moose

Truuper

06-19-2006, 03:20 PM

Why switch to methadone when you are on Sub unless, of course, you lost your Sub supply. Shouldn't be a problem going from Sub to Methadone. The revrse is the problem.

Moose

Truuper

06-20-2006, 04:24 PM

OK. Here's what happened to my friend:

Did last viewing at 9:30 AM yesterday. Watched a movie last night while having some adult beverages. Went to bed at 10:00pm. Got up feeling like crap at 8:00AM. Proceded to take a clonodine and some advil. Went for a 3 mile hike. Got home and crashed until noon, got up, ate(was actually hungry), went back to sleep until 2:00pm. Got up and did 2mg of sub nasally and 3mg sublingual. Within an hour feeling great. And that was after a solid week of viewing sometimes twice/day. My friend has to go traveling soon so shes gonna stay on Sub til she gets back. No smuggling "Metimucil" if you know what I mean.

Best,
Moose

shaunclo

06-20-2006, 05:27 PM

Truuper

06-21-2006, 09:09 AM

No, but the bupe in your system will have the effect - theoretically - of blocking the full agonist. It depends on how much bupe you're on. At 32mgs, he wont feel the full effects of the done for 3-4 days or longer. "My friend" was on 3mgs/day and one morning, instead of Sub, she had a cuppa. Full effects were registered.

There certainly are no WDs to worry about going from Sub to full agonist. Like you say - it's just the opposite. .

Best,
Moose

Truuper

06-21-2006, 09:13 AM

I still hate to see anybody go from sub back to the kliniks. If you only know Sub at 32mgs then you don't know how good Sub can be cause you're operating at the antagonistic end of the curve. Say it with me - "more is less" and "less is more". Really try cutting back on Sub before going to the kliniks would be my advice.

I hope they didn't make you ct from done when you went on Sub. That'd be criminal. My clinic puts someone thats switching from done on Oxy for a week and then they switch em over to Sub.

Best,
Moose

Magical Pig

07-25-2006, 06:54 PM

Firstly, all power to the brother/sister that started this thread and got me juices flowing enough to sign up here, coz that's some pertinent shit they tryin to get some kinda consensus about right there.

I've only used bup as a desperate measure for arresting the suffering of wd when I've been unable to take it no more. Cause I never know how it's gonna get me, it varies, and the only way to be 'safe' and ready for anything comes with knowledge from this kinda site that deals with a broad range of anecdotal subjective experience. 'Fact' type knowledge can be misleading when your dealing with something as complex as the human mind/body and all the variables (most unknown) that are acting on it at any one time. Ya gotta have that shit covered G, especially when you be pushing it hard to do what ya tell it.

When I first took bup I had been fully informed of it's antagonist action, and was told to wait 8hrs or longer... as long as possible. I went down fast and hard and wasn't prepared to spend anymore time that way, but needed to quit the H for commercial purposes. It skull fucked me right into the pit of hell. After about 15yrs of hard H use and all different kinds of wd it was the worse. I had to take enough H to kill an elephant to recover my sanity. I took 8mgs and so I presumed it wasn't worth taking more to 'push through'. It came about another time that I was in a difficult situation and wding (about 12hrs this time) and needed to seem fit and bup was all I had so I tried it again and bingo, magic, lovely, thanx very much. BUT the thing is, even though subjectively the wd was as bad as the other time I took it (which would've involved many other factors), I hadn't been using anywhere near the amount of gear. This factor amongst others would affect the effect of the bup on you, how long you would have to leave it and how much you would have to push to push through, if that was possible in the given conditions (phew).

Moral of all this rather long winded story (sorry, hehe) is that whilst people swear by it for maintenance and stuff, I would say 'leave it out' as far as a fast step down goes coz the antagonist element is too unpredictable and like the first chaps experience and mine and others goes it ain't worth the risk unless there's really nothing else.

Sitar

07-28-2006, 01:36 AM

The only real risk in using bupe is the possible precipitated withdrawal, and yes, it can be miserably terrible. I've experienced it twice and that's more than enough for me. I don't ever want to experience that again.

Anyway, while some people can get away with taking bupe at the very beginning of mild withdrawal, most people need to be in significant withdrawal to take it. It's tough to wait long enough but why risk taking it early if it could make you feel MUCH worse. Even with IV use, I don't think that 8 hours is long enough for most people. Wait until you just can't stand it any longer, and chances are you'll be fine.

And if you do take it too early and don't have any more dope to get you out of it, just take a little more bupe. Really that's the best thing to do anyway, and the WD won't really last that long. In my two experiences with precipitated WD, the whole episode didn't last longer than 2 hours. And while it was 2 hours of pure nightmare-ish hell and totally anguish, I did quickly recover and felt basically fine after that, and was able to stabilize easily.

Bupe can be a real life saver, and no matter what happens when using it, it's still FAR better on all levels than an awful cold turkey withdrawal, and easier to get and infinitely less addictive than methadone.

handsome rob

08-15-2006, 04:57 PM

Iv'e been regularly switching from subs to oxy for the past few months and it is an easy transition sometimes and sometimes not. The last time that I went on a week long oxy binge I was an idoit and didn't end it on a fri or sat so I could have 24 hours to wait out some wd's and take a sub. I ended on a sunday and on monday moring they kicked in. At about 16 hours since last using I tried to tough it out but at 19 hrs I couldn't take it and popped a sub. I started sweating and felt chills, disoriented, etc. This lasted for about an hour before the subs kicked in and saved me. So be careful when switching back or you may make it worse.

notDrPhang

08-22-2006, 12:30 PM

I was on suboxone for a while last year. I thought it was a mirical drug...I could just put half an 8mg pill under my toung and go about living my life. I found if I tried to come off too soon I would go into WD's but after a few months I was able to stop pretty easy. I just made the switch back to herion rather fast. I always found if I let myself come off the sub's so I could get high and my plans to score dope did not work out. It would take about 2-3 hours after taking the suboxone before I felt well again.

Hammilton

09-28-2006, 11:19 PM

I did it just last week. Methadone at 40mg daily for a year, then one day 15mg done, then 20mg oxycodone, finally 25mg oxycodone. That goes from a tuesday to a thursday. Friday I dosed with Suboxone. only 16 hours after Oxycodone, and I thought I should wait 20, but I said fuck it. Ended up being fine. Still dope sick as hell. Heck, I'm still dope sick, but it's mild and doesn't bother me much.

You know what though? I've had almost no cravings. If I was given my dope back right now, I'd probably use it, but I don't think I'd pursue it again.

Yeah right...

dorje

10-09-2006, 05:48 PM

Subs always tricked me because I would wait a couple days for WD's and then say to myself, apropos of nothing, Gee...it would be nice to eat 20 Lortabs right now. Then I figured out it takes a while for the Sub WD's to start. Finally got off Subs by halving the dose over long periods of time, then halving that until it was stupid because I could not see the goddamn chip I was taking. Then there was no WD. Viola, sober again motherfucker. Now I can;t stand to look at a Sub (unless I have to but that's another short story)

Seeds&Stems

01-16-2007, 08:20 AM

Sup guys. I have been taking methadone illeagaly for about 5 months now. Between 10 and 25mgs daily, with somes days nothing. The days that I don't have anything I don't withdrawl at all and am fine by the time I score my dose the next day.

Now... I have a oragne sublingual 8mg tablet and want to take it. My question is: Will it get me high after not taking methadone for 30hrs, or will I go into withdrawl, considering I've never experianced withdrawl before.

thanks for any info.

bi11i

01-16-2007, 04:09 PM

You'll go straight into withdrawal. Skip two days or even three from the methadone. The problem with methadone is that it has a super long half life. Either way, why would you want to take one 8mg tablet of sub rather than your methadone?

suboxoneeater

01-16-2007, 06:16 PM

I have never heard first hand experience of anyone pushed into withdrawels with suboxone.

Here is something that you bupe users should read carefully.

RATIONALE: One therapeutic benefit of mu opioid agonist or antagonist maintenance is the resultant attenuation of the effects of illicit opioids. It is important to characterize the development and duration of opioid blockade produced by buprenorphine, a novel opioid dependence pharmacotherapy. OBJECTIVE: This study characterized the ability of buprenorphine to attenuate opioid effects during treatment initiation and discontinuation compared to naltrexone and placebo. METHODS: Opioid-experienced volunteers (n = 8) participated in this 10-week, inpatient, double-blind, within-subject, crossover study. Five randomized conditions were each examined during a 2-week period; the test drug was given for 7 days followed by a 7-day placebo wash-out. Cumulative doses of hydromorphone (0, 2 and 4 mg, IM, 45 min apart) were administered thrice-weekly corresponding with treatment and wash-out days 1, 3, and 5; behavioral, physiological and pharmacokinetic measures were collected. RESULTS: Buprenorphine alone produced dose-related prototypic agonist effects during induction (i.e., positive mood, respiratory depression, miosis); tolerance developed only to the subjective effects. Buprenorphine 2 mg partially attenuated the effects of hydromorphone, while nearly complete attenuation was observed with 8 mg that lasted up to 72 h after discontinuation. Both naltrexone doses produced complete hydromorphone blockade after a single dose; blockade of the behavioral, but not physiological, effects persisted for 5 days after discontinuation of 100 mg. CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that 2 mg buprenorphine is a sub-therapeutic maintenance dose, both buprenorphine 8 mg and naltrexone produce immediate and efficacious opioid blockade, and adequate protection against illicit opioids may be achieved with less-than-daily dosing.
PMID: 10463317 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[B]
Ok, if you want to push through you can at 2mg, but 8mg you might as well wait several days.
Otherwise you are wasting some good dope.

greenfox

01-17-2007, 10:45 AM

So with that in mind, has anyone here ever tried pushing through? I know that quite a few have complained of headaches as part of the forced withdrawal. I'm one of those prone to migraines and so I'd never even think of trying something that might make one worse, but if I was in desperation mode via forced withdrawal, I might think about taking so much bup, that one could 'push through' the bad and into a comfortable area.

I'd read accounts of this having been done with Buprenex, but never Subutex or Suboxone. (someone wanna give it a try?:vomit: )

Anyway, an interesting poll to follow...

Bi11i,

recently I've done quite a bit of "experimenting" with Subs...(subone!) yeck anyways, here's my personal input:

day I came home from the clinic, I was at two 8's a day (16mg/d). I cut back a little, but...

Did five bags 12 hours after- nothing.
Then 12 hours after that, I took a sub- no forced wd! I have been reading here about the stiumulating effects, I'd have to agree. Same goes with the lessened interest in music- ditto! I am now two days off the subs (by choice- I have a SHITLoad stockpiled!) and I am going to try some H tonight see what happens... yeah hopefully something.

I have had no problem switching- no forced WD but i found if I don't wait at LEAST 24 hours on a 16mg/d dose I get half the effects. Also- when I go back (from h to subs) I found very little noticable effects. I think my body chemistry is weird. One other thing: If I haven't had a sub dose in a minute, I find that I *(DO)* get some mild euphoria. Strange. I haven't been on them that long, so Im sure based on what I've read this will pass. Currently I am working on a SUB guide based on EVERYTHING I found/read here and all the polls. I am hoping it has some valuable information for me. Heh we will see.....

take care and let me know what u think.

2muchgarbage

01-19-2007, 02:48 PM

can you od from suboxone if you take too much?

Duckfeet

01-19-2007, 03:21 PM

can you od from suboxone if you take too much?

I've never *heard* of anybody o.d.ing. I *think* the subs start rejecting themselves, past a certain point. Every junky I know--including me--just *has* to try doing a bunch of them, but most of us find out, that over, oh, say 8mg, it is sort of a diminishing return. Less is More, w/subs, and I'd do something else if ur looking for a buzz. They're good for detoxing, IMO, but for maintenance, I still always got cravings on them, but similar side effects to methadone: constipation, slight depression, bad eating habits, so I'm trying to get off them, using some hydros I'd saved.

Best of luck...

Sitar

01-19-2007, 04:52 PM

Duckfeet

01-19-2007, 05:36 PM

The Precipitated Withdrawal I experienced from taking Suboxone too soon while addicted to a high pod dose was one of the absolute worst experiences of my life. It's no joke. It's like a full week-long withdrawal detox packed into a couple hours.

I believe it. I've read too many credible stories of people that describe it...it sounds terrible...but since *sometimes* we get away with it, most people push it and push it, until it happens to them...my own belief is that the stuff we need to be most careful of is stuff that stays in our system the longest: pods and methadone are worst, longterm heroin habit probably next. Lighter weight opiates, I just wait until I know they're out of my system, before taking subs. But it's playing w/fire, if I got a good habit going on something else, I always wait until mild w/drawals start before I take subs. Methadone is what I've always given at least a couple days on. I know some people do get away with it, all our systems process this shit differently, and of course, it depends on whether or not not one has a habit. All sub is doing is kicking off other opiates from the receptors. If ur not strung out, nothing will happen...but if one has a good habit going, it's good to be cautious. and to be honest, I'm not always a good judge of how much of a habit I've got...I'm as delusional as the next junky...

sebastian869

01-28-2007, 11:06 AM

Damn Rabit, you guys have opiates in Idaho? All jokes aside, what were you guys taking before the switch? H or script O's

jacky

01-28-2007, 03:09 PM

the forced bup withdrawl is horrible...I have experienced it twice that was long lasting, and one strange experience of massive forced withdrawl in a 30 minute period.

too bad I dont keep better notes,cause I dont always remember the exact circumstances.

one time I took my last dose at 11pm, and then a whopping dose of dxm right after.
the next day at around noon I started taking subs. horrible experience, about 6 hours of incredible head pains, frontal lobes felt like they were getting crushed. any withdrawl I have ever experienced naturally doesnt hold up to forced bup withdrawl.

once I took a dose of shroom chocolates late one night, I cant remember what I was on opioid wise, but my wife switched that night, and right as I started to feel the mushrooms, she started going through forced withdrawl. this was her first time. I was mentally able to handle the situation, but really felt bad for her, and our situation of having no one to really turn to is isolating. cant go to the er, they cant do shit.
so I sat there high, watching her in pain.
bummer trip.
finally she fell asleep exhausted.

now I am supposed to pull the switch today.
company martini and sushi party in 4 hours, and I am feeling opiate withdrawl, but now reading these posts, I dont feel comfortable starting bup. and I dont want to miss the party.

my last succesful switch was done after 18 hours of not having opiates. then I started taking the bup in 100 microgram/solution divided increments. around 2 milligrams after taking a few hundred every 15-20 minutes I felt relief, and not major trauma.
when I switch succesfully, I dont really feel totally good on the bup till the 3-4 day. by then though I will get euphoria from bup for a few weeks at least.

now my wife is sick with an infection. and I dont think switching for her is a good idea. not sick.

and I am having second thoughts.
this is a self surrendered idea of mine to switch to bup for a few weeks. but now I am thinking more and more that I would rather feel shitty and take kratom that try the bup route.

greenfox

01-28-2007, 03:14 PM

now my wife is sick with an infection. and I dont think switching for her is a good idea. not sick.

and I am having second thoughts.
this is a self surrendered idea of mine to switch to bup for a few weeks. but now I am thinking more and more that I would rather feel shitty and take kratom that try the bup route.

That's a rough one. Jacky, all I can say is this: for me it was a wunder-drug. For others, I've heard differently. I guess it's all up to intent and other factors. I'm on 16mg/d but I seldom take that much. PM me if you want *my* personal info / experiences on this strange (but imho wonderful) drug.

jacky

01-29-2007, 12:27 PM

yeah, I couldnt do it.
we made it to the company party, and I was able to enjoy some sushi and booze. it was at an old job of mine, where I was fired cause I raked one of the owner/managers over some hot coals for lying to me. he told me to never come in the place again.
so I was watching out for him, and the new employees told me I am welcome anytime, as the guy was soon fired after me for being a lying cheating sack of shit.
then I realized I could have come back to the best job I have ever had, a sushi chef. now the position is filled, but its nice that I can again go the the freshest spot in town.

anyway, being on bup would have made this company party hell.

now we have enough stuff to last us till next weekend, or a little beyond.
so it looks like bup with be a forced thing next week. we will have no choice.
unless I can get my taxed done and filed and returned within a few days.

I think a comfortable switch to kratom could be done in steps over a weeks time, but yesterday when I took kratom while getting some pds ready, I got a hella wave of uncomfortableness and nausea. it was weird, cause I felt pretty good all day, but 5 minutes after I took that kratom, I started getting the kick on almost immediately.
perhaps the antagonists in kratom were more potent as it had been over 13 hours since my last M dose.
all I know is that I felt like crappola until I got the pds in my stomach 20 minutes later.

I really want to have all day to switch to bup, no commitments, and maybe skip a dose the night before instead of taking a full days dosages the day before.

one of the times where I got the forced withdrawl, I started taking more, hopelessly trying to "breakthrough", though I was not aware of this technique at the time. I was caught off guard, and desperate, alone, and in considerable pain. the most pain I have ever been in my life. total misery. like sitar said, it is too fucking much.
I could easily see someone having a heart attack from the pain involved, or going into shock.

I know at some point somewhere, some idiot is going to pass some bup on, tell people that is either potent, or not, and not pass any information on about forced withdrawl. if that person is opiate dependent then they might be in for a very bad experience, and possibly something horrendous could come of it. like if they had a loaded shotgun anywhere near them.

VforVictory

01-29-2007, 03:29 PM

I have used Sub both to kick habits of Oxy and Hydro and, as I am doing now... to lower my tolerance... My tolerance wasn't that bad to begin with but I like to keep it low.. Put it this way I put myself on a week regiment. Sunday 8 Monday 4, Tuesday 2 Wed 1 thurs off friday night I can take hydro or Oxy again at about half the dose I needed before... I've probably doen this 10 times in the last 2 years. Works every time for me but, like I said, I don't have a bad H habit or the like so YMMVgreatly.

Thanat0s

07-18-2007, 02:43 AM

my first switch was quite painless as i went through 3 DAYS of withdrawl first. see, my initial drug screen showed methadone. sadly i had taken no 'done, simply a sky high dose of DXM to try and escape some withdrawl... well it must have popped positive fer done and the doc says he wants a full 72hrs for it to clear my system. by the time i was in the office popping my first sub i was no longer pouring sweat, i could eat etc... i did, later have a mild bout of forced w/d during a switch back from H to sub, but that was a 2mg IV experiment and i should have known better but like everyone else, i just had to push it. i didnt try to breakthrough, i just smoked a few joints, popped 20mg diazepam and played the horrid waiting game... determined to stay as far away from sub as possible.(thats a whole other post, gimme short term w/d over drawn out bupe w/d anyday) shooting sub(2mg MAX) once acclimated to it never caused me an issue.

jonny-5

07-18-2007, 12:00 PM

actaully a couple days ago was the first time i had precipitated withdrawls, i woke up feeling sick and i took 4 mg of sub and started to feel like complete shit. i came to realize it was actually less than 12 hrs since i last had H, but i thought i was sick enough. anyways, i went and copped some more dope, shot it up, and immediately felt WAY better. i didnt get as high as i obviously would, but i did get a little high, and was definitely not sick anymore. i did the rest throughout the day (like 4 shots worth id say, the last one being at 5pm), woke up the next morning around 8 or 9 feeling slightly sick, took 4mg sub and was fine. i would suggest to anyone who has forced withdrawls to go out and cop some more dope, cause it will definitely work fine. and the next day you can go back to bupe no problem. at least that was my experience.

mrklean

07-18-2007, 08:53 PM

for a friend fent habit there was no succes pushing though till 2nd day. Same friend with hydro doesn't remember any real suffering.

BLOODY

08-14-2007, 03:48 PM

ü gotta wait bout 5 days,and its still not goin to be apiece of cake.get some rohypnol or dia to sleep.good luck

Saint

08-21-2007, 05:45 AM

o.k. I hope this is not a stupid request.. but I'm starting to get a little worried here.
The thing is this: after a lot of hassle my doc has finally agreed to prescribe me subutex (temgesic as it's called here).
I have been on methadone for 23 years (on and off, but no other drugs for 7 years now) and don't have a big problem tapering them but I do have chronical pain so that's why I'm still taking a low dose.
The past 5 years my dose was about 30 mgs daily, during the last weeks it has been about 15 mgs daily and right now I'm on 12.5 mgs. I split my dose: 7.5 mgs in the morning and 5 mgs in the evening.

My doc says I have to wait only 24 hours before induction but what I plan to do is wait at least 48 hours after my last dose before starting on subs. (So this will be 60 hours after my last morningdose).
I will wait until my pupils are bigger than my head; until severe withdrawals set in. Not much fun but after all I've been reading about the subject this seems like the only right way to do this.
First dose of sub wil be 2 mgs. If that doesn't precipitate WD-s then another 2 mgs after a few hours etc. etc. until I'm WD-free. My initial dose is set on 8 mgs of buprenorphine daily (which seems like a hell of a lot compared to only 12 mgs of methadone btw)

But... after reading all your horrorstories I'm getting sort of scared. Will this schedule still put me in precipitated withdrawals? Even after being on 15 mgs for weeks? Even after waiting 48 to 60 hours after my last dose of methadone? (and if needed I'll even wait as long as 72 to 90 hours)
I really need to have some faith in making this switch so if you have some positive experiences to share about your switch from done to subs, please do....

chopstix

08-21-2007, 07:34 AM

I can't reply from personal experience jumping from md to sub, but I bet the the first couple days are going to be tough. I was really sick from H wd when I first took bup and it was three days before I felt ok. Some people don't seem to experience this. It's a common practice for clinics to switch a methadone patient to a short acting drug like oxy for a few days before the jump to sub, just cos of the md half life.

Good luck, no matter what bup turns into a miracle drug within a couple days but it's really not like other opiates which makes it kind of a weird transition.. I'm also a little concerned that you won't get the pain relief from the bup that you're getting from the md.

Saint

08-21-2007, 11:29 AM

Not exactly the comforting answer I'd like to hear ;-) I guess I will have to 'wait it out' anyway. It's either being sick for a few days before the switch or if you get on subs too soon, getting sick for days after the switch... or even worse, like you say: both.. so no easy way out.

I'm a bit concerned about the pain too. I will try to take split doses once I'm stabilised. Sub supposedly doesn't work more than 6 hours for chronic pain. I appreciate your honesty though and hope to get some responses from people on methadone that made the switch too.
Remember that I will make the switch from a very low dose btw: 10 to 12 mgs of methadone only. So that should at least make it a little less uncomfortable (o.k. I confess: I'm just trying to comfort myself a little bit here).

I'll try to go into the whole thing blank: being too scared will only make withdrawals worse I guess.

chopstix

08-22-2007, 03:33 AM

Remember that I will make the switch from a very low dose btw: 10 to 12 mgs of methadone only. So that should at least make it a little less uncomfortable

They say the lower the better and if you can get 60hrs in, the first sub could possibly bring you a lot of relief. I just have to be frank because that wasn't my experience at all. The whole time I took suboxone though, I never took more than 8mg in a 24hr period so I don't know if I just didn't take enough at first or what. I was buying it off the street and self medicating. Working with a doctor would probably be a lot wiser but I didn't have much choice.

Good luck, a lot of people do really well on it..

roxi*stardust

08-24-2007, 06:36 PM

I have put myself into w/ds several times with Suboxone. It's weird there have been times where I was definately sick with mild to moderate w/ds and taken it and went into full blown w/ds and times like today that I took 10mg of methadone and 30mg of oxy 8 hours ago and took a Sub and was fine. Go figure. My experience is that if you do put yourself into w/ds it only last 1-2 hours until the bupe settles in and fills the receptors. I just pop an Ativan and zonk out for and hour or two.

johnysmoke

09-17-2007, 08:58 PM

I am going to the Sub doctor in the morning for the first time ever. I took my last dose of morphine 90mgs at around 5:00 pm and a few Hydro's at 7:00 pm. I have to be at the doc's office at 8:45am tomorrow. Will i be ok? I mean is that enough time to wait? I called the doc at 4:30. I am afraid that i fucked up because i took the morphine right before i called and got an appointment. I really didn't think that they would get me an appointment that fast.

Duckfeet

10-02-2007, 02:22 PM

this is kind of a tough one to answer Johnny. the main thing is to read up as much as you can on subs...there are sticky (permanent) posts on here. Also, I always recommend that people go to heroin-detox.com, to the buprenorphene forum, and even tho it's negative in general, it helped me a lot. Not for everybody, and eventually I had to get off there....

what taking subs too soon will do is kick u into precipitated withdrawals (pw), as subs basically kick out any lingering opiates u might have in your system, and the receptors now bind with the subs intstead. The main thing is to be *kicking* slightly, at least. If you are not, you might get PW. Unless it methadone, I usually operate on the 24hr plan, which means I have to have at least 24 hrs since my last opiate, *if I have a habit* before I take my first sub.

So of course it will be up to you...with only a little over 12 hrs however, you could get kicked into withdrawals, so again, I'd look at the size of my habit, and then decide...if you aren't in withdrawals at all, I'd try to stall the doc, at least until that afternoon, or, of course, better yet, if you can stand it, wait 'til the next day.

It's a tough deal, I know, but I have a hunch nobody wants to "encourage" you, because if you *do* go into withdrawals, they'ed feel guilty....

Again, I'd read up, and do like we all do: jump or wait...

Best wishes, tho: tuff spot to be in....

I am going to the Sub doctor in the morning for the first time ever. I took my last dose of morphine 90mgs at around 5:00 pm and a few Hydro's at 7:00 pm. I have to be at the doc's office at 8:45am tomorrow. Will i be ok? I mean is that enough time to wait? I called the doc at 4:30. I am afraid that i fucked up because i took the morphine right before i called and got an appointment. I really didn't think that they would get me an appointment that fast.

Chicago

11-09-2007, 06:33 AM

I did some research & found out that to kick suboxone is harder then kicking subutex, b/c the naloxone in suboxone take's your brain alot longer to get back to it's own. If you go to focushealthcare.com & go to suboxone people and doctors back this up.:mad:

pixiegirl

11-09-2007, 09:52 AM

i had an absolute nightmare when switching to the Bupe. I was working with a doc at the time so i thought he knew best. boy, was i wrong - he sent me in the heaviest w/d i had ever experienced. and my w/d lasted about 3 weeks, no lie. i did not eat or sleep for 2 weeks....ended up having to be in the hospital every few days to get iv fluids and such. the dr had told me to wait at least 12 hours from my last dose (FYI- I was using H at the time). at 12 hours, i was still not having to much w/d so i think we waited a few more. maybe 16 hours. he only gave me 2mg to start. within the hour i was in massive w/d. it seemed to have sped up the w/d/ process. throughout that first day, i think i took 8mg total- dosing 2mg every few hours. and going up a few mg every day until i hit 32mg/daily. dosing half in the morning and half in the evening. anyhow, back to the hellish part...like i said that first 2 weeks was the nightmare of a lifetime. it was worse than going cold turkey. i seriously thought bupe was evil and wanted to swear it off but i decided to stick out so that i could maintain on it for a while rather than methadone. the doctor thought maybe the effects were caused because my H habit was higher than the subs could give me any relief for. not sure if that's true or not. also thought maybe he took too long to bring me up the high mgs. or maybe it's my chemistry and reaction. after the first few weeks i was stabilized and it was a great maintenance for a good while. with all this said, i am so hesitant about switching over to the subs again, as i want to get off the H for awhile and get my tolderance back down. any advice for me after reading my experience?
thanks all

SCHTIC

12-02-2007, 03:37 AM

it just takes a few days to get use to the amount of the chemical in your receptors...after about 3 days you'll feel pretty close to normal once you figure out your dosage atleast on subute. the narcan in sub's was causing me some problems but it just gives your life back keeeps you from feelin bad. i took an 80 tonight and tomorrow afternoon ill start takin about 2mil at a time to make sure it dosn't negatively effect me then bak to my dose which is 12 i won't feel quite up to par for a day or two but if i don't think about it since it was only one night and one 80 i probably won't even notice being that i only get a slight buzz from 80 being on 12mil of subutex but its a treat now like it use to be for me. the sub's gives me the power to wake up tomorrow and go back to normal life instead of shooting all the pills i could gather into my whatever... just wait a good 18 hours since using and go slow it acts fast but don't get your hope up it will not buzz you but in a few days you'll start to feel like you did before the drugs which is really kinda nice 27 day's a month. give it a try the worst that can happen is a few min of extreme sickness quickly replaced by the comfort of the sub taking over your receptors it happens really quick plus it dosn't happen to everyone and it won't kill you stay close to a toilet for a good hour Ha! if it happens grin and bear it it's kinda like a shot at the dentist yes it stings a little but sure makes that absessed tooth about to pop out of your skull feel better