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kingdxm
02-08-2007, 09:45 PM
Hello, this is my first post. I first would like to say that narcotics are my favorite class of drugs. I, like many of you, are searching for that “holy grail”, a narcotic that is cheap, legal, and if possible natural. I have many different substances in my research that may be good candidates. I have also noticed that these compounds have been discussed on this site. Here is a list of info I have found.
To get an understanding of potency of these natural “opioids“, I would like to institute a potency scale:
A 10 being morphine( which to me isn’t a great drug due to its unusual bioavailability by any route besides injection )and a 1 being propoxyphene( Darvocet ).
picralime nitida-- Extracts of the seeds of Picralima nitida (fam. Apocynaceae) have been reported to have opioid analgesic activity. In this investigation, isolated tissue bioassays and radioligand binding assays have been used to determine the opioid activity of five alkaloids--akuammidine, akuammine, akuammicine, akuammigine and pseudoakuammigine--
extracted from the seeds of P. nitida. Akuammidine showed a preference for mu-opioid binding sites with Ki values of 0.6, 2.4 and 8.6 microM at mu-, delta- and kappa-opioid binding sites, respectively. The agonist actions of akuammidine in the mouse-isolated vas deferens were antagonised by naloxone and the mu-opioid receptor selective antagonist D-Phe-Cys-Tyr-D-Trp-Orn-Thr-Pen-Thr-NH2 (CTOP) confirming an action at mu-opioid receptors. In contrast, akuammine also showed highest affinity for mu-opioid binding sites (Ki 0.5 microM) but was an antagonist at mu-opioid receptors with a pK(B) of 5.7 against the selective mu-opioid receptor agonist [D-Ala2,MePhe4,Gly-ol5]enkephalin (DAMGO). Akuammicine has the highest affinity for kappa-opioid binding sites (Ki 0.2 microM) and was a full agonist at kappa-opioid receptors in the guinea pig ileum preparation but a partial kappa-opioid receptor agonist in the vasa deferentia of the mouse and the rabbit. Akuammigine and pseudoakuammigine showed little or no efficacy in the opioid bioassays. None of the alkaloids had significant activity for opioid receptor-like binding sites (ORL1-binding sites) with Ki values >> 10 microM. These data show that some alkaloids extracted from the medicinal plant P. nitida possess varying degrees of agonist and antagonist activity at opioid receptors but possess neither high affinity nor selectivity for mu-, delta- or kappa-opioid receptors or the ORL1-receptor.
So is this herb a reasonable substitute for opium and other narcotics? Perhaps, but human testing will be the true test. One thing is for sure, they resemble mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragyine( the active components of kratom ).
Nigella sativa: The antinociceptive effects of Nigella sativa oil and its major component, thymoquinone, were examined in mice. The p.o. administration of N. sativa oil (50-400 mg/kg) dose-dependently suppressed the nociceptive response in the hot-plate test, tail-pinch test, acetic acid-induced writhing test and in the early phase of the formalin test. The systemic administration (2.5-10 mg/kg, p.o. and 1-6 mg/kg, i.p.) and the i.c.v. injection (1-4 μg/mouse) of thymoquinone attenuated the nociceptive response in not only the early phase but also the late phase of the formalin test. Naloxone injected s.c. (1 mg/kg) significantly blocked N. sativa oil- and thymoquinone-induced antinociception in the early phase of the formalin test. Moreover, the i.c.v. injection of naloxone (10 μg/mouse), the μ[1]-opioid receptor antagonist, naloxonazine (1-5 μg/mouse), or the κ-opioid receptor antagonist, nor-binaltorphimine (1-5 μg/mouse), significantly reversed thymoquinone-induced antinociception in the early phase but not the late phase of the formalin test, whereas the δ-opioid receptor antagonist, naltrindole (1-5 ng/mouse, i.c.v.), had no effect on either phase. The antinociceptive effect of morphine was significantly reduced in thymoquinone- and N. sativa oil-tolerant mice, but not vice versa. These results suggest that N. sativa oil and thymoquinone produce antinociceptive effects through indirect activation of the supraspinal μ[1]- and κ-opioid receptor subtypes

According to this, thymoquinone( active ingredient in N.sativa ) mu-1 activation was blocked by naloxone and naloxonazine( mu-1 antagonist ) and k-opioid response was blocked by binaltorphinmine( k-opioid antagonist ). It seems to me that N.sative and thymoquinone work by a combination of a direct and indirect activation of opiate receptors. So how potent is it. Rats, guenia pigs, and such are not human. Can anyone validate if this plant is any good? I know chemistry very well and this molecule represents menthol, so who knows.
I not going to go into a great deal of info on the other herb, I will simply list then for discussion and possible rating on potency.

Sophora subprostata: contains the mu/kappa opioid matrine. Sophora contains about 1% total alkaloids.



Chaste tree: opioid activity due to a diterpine and an alkaloid called vitricine

Black cohosh: another plant with opioid activity.

Laurelia novae-zelandiae: the active ingredient in this compound is pukateine.

It has a similar structure to both apomorphine and MDMA.




Salvia leriifolia: reputed to have opioid effect.
Tabernaemontana pachysiphon: contains 2 opioid compounds, tubotaiwine and apparicine.


Fractions obtained by CPC from an ethanolic extract of Tabernaemontana pachysiphon Stapf (Apocynaceae) were screened by means of an opiate-receptor-binding assay and an adenosine A<inf>1</inf>-receptor-binding assay. Fractions containing fatty acids, which had false-positive effects on the assay, were identified, as were unknown-positive fractions from which two opioid-active compounds, tubotaiwine and apparicine, were subsequently isolated. The affinities (K<inf>i</inf>) of tubotaiwine and apparicine at the opiate receptor were 1·65±0·81 and 2·65±1·56 mol, respectively. Both alkaloids had analgesic activity in the abdominal constriction test in mice.
CPC prefractionation led to the rapid isolation of two opioid-active compounds, tubotaiwine and apparicine, from the unknown-positive fraction; false-positive fractions were rapidly identified. Both tubotaiwine and apparicine had affinity for adenosine receptors in the micromolar range and also had in-vivo analgesic activity in mice.

irvingia gabonensis: Irvingia gabonensis is used medicinally in most parts of tropical Africa for the treatment of a number of ailments. In West Africa the Mende tribe of Sierra Leone uses the stem bark to relieve pain. In order to establish a pharmacological rationale for the traditional use of this plant as a remedy for pain, the water and ethanol extracts of the powdered stem bark were screened for analgesic activity and compared with standard analgesic drugs. The water extract and morphine protected the mice from heat-induced pain. In contrast, the ethanol extract and metamizole sodium showed very low level of analgesic activity in this test. However, using tail pressure as a source of pain, the water and ethanol extracts, metamizole sodium and morphine offered protection to the mice against pain stimuli. Morphine and the water extract were more potent as analgesic agents in heat than non-heat pain test. The analgesic effects of the water extract and morphine were blocked by a non-selective opioid receptor antagonist, naloxone in both tests, whereas the analgesic effects of the ethanol extract and metamizole sodium were not antagonized by the same dose of the opioid antagonist. The data presented in this study suggest that the active principle(s) in the water extract has analgesic profile similar to that of the narcotic analgesic and the ethanol extract might contain compound(s) that behave like non-narcotic analgesic agent. These findings provide for the first time the pharmacological basis for the folkloric use of Irvingia gabonenis in the relief of pain.
Myrrh: Apparently the three wise men displayed true wisdom when they made an offering of myrrh to the newborn Jesus.
Piero Dolara, a chemist at the University of Florence in Italy, and his colleagues find that secretions of the thorny, flowering shrub Commiphora-prized by ancient Mediterraneans for medicine, perfume, and embalming-indeed possess long-rumored analgesic properties.
The chemists gave a dose of myrrh to mice, then placed the animals on a hot metal plate, they explain in the Jan. 4 Nature. Mice without myrrh began licking their paws within 15 seconds, whereas mice dosed with myrrh showed no discomfort for 20 seconds.
Dolara's team proceeded to analyze the holy remedy, subjecting its oils, gums, and resins to chromatography, nuclear magnetic resonance, and mass spectrometry. They isolated three key compounds but found that only two-the sesquiterpenes known as furanoeudesma-1,3-diene and curzarene-produced analgesic effects in mice.
Further tests suggest that myrrh's active ingredients affect the brain's opioid receptors, long known to influence pain perception.
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"This could explain the use of myrrh as a painkiller in ancient times," Dolara says. Slightly astringent and antiseptic, the plant extract long ago found favor with the medical luminary Hippocrates, who prescribed it for mouth sores. Roman physicians used it to treat infections, coughs, and worm infestations.
"Its use for analgesia may later have been dropped and replaced by opium derivatives, given the presence in myrrh of other compounds with unknown or unfavorable pharmacological activity," Dolara speculates.
"There appears to be a real effect here," says J. Michael Walker, a neuroscientist at Brown University in Providence, R.I. "But there's still some question about the cause of that effect."
"It's also unclear how the opiate receptors are involved," he says. "It's not likely that these compounds act directly on opiate receptors, so the analgesia probably arises indirectly.
"But it's a very interesting class of compounds," Walker says. "Whenever someone finds new compounds that kill pain, they should be studied, because existing painkillers have limitations, and chronic pain is a huge problem for many people."

Kratom: I should hope you have heard of this substance. It is probably the most used non-opiate in the world

kyuss
02-08-2007, 10:16 PM
or you
coulda just
said Hello.

robojunkie
02-08-2007, 10:29 PM
I'm not gonna suck up the bandwidth quoting that post but it just makes me think of the good old days, way before I was born, when researchers had the balls to be real psychonauts and test reasonably expected safe shit on themselves. Then we'd really have a better idea what is and what isn't. Always hard to interpret mice/guinea pig reactions, unless I suppose its dramatic, like self starvation from cocaine self administration or nodding out on the electric plate or tail heater or whatever they use now to "measure" response...

Zogledan
02-08-2007, 11:04 PM
Kratom: I should hope you have heard of this substance. It is probably the most used non-opiate in the world
Yes we have a forum just for it
I am currently doing a experiment on my human test subject SWIM with that very substance.
http://www.grinningplanet.com/2004/05-27/doctor-probe-copyright1.gif

jacky
02-09-2007, 02:18 AM
welcome kingdxm.....

yes, I am excited by alot of the plants that you list.

I have taken alkaloidal extracts of
picralima nitida,
tabernaemontana pachysiphon
these two plants share some similiar alkaloids as verified by a chemist with HPLC equip.
t. pachysiphon is harder to extract, and has far fewer alkaloids in it compare to p. nitida.
I got some mild stimulant effects from p. nitida, and not much else. I forewent my normal opiate dose and waited while I consumed p.nitida alkaloids to see if they would cover withdraw. I didnt feel to good, and felt really no relief. I soon ended up taking kratom and getting on with my day. the equivalent dose of raw seeds would have been over 30 grams.

nigella sativa oil is about the strongest of these bunch of herbs listed so far as I can tell, I even have some pure thymoquinone, but have not taken any of that material yet. I havnt taken nigella sativa oil and tried to abstain from my normal opiate dose yet, but it does seem to really potentiate an opiate high very well. the potency of nigella sativas antitussive effect has been compared to morphine.
I thought that thymoquinone resembled menthols structure too, but didnt know if this was really a correct assumption.....
its interesting I think because menthol is described as a kappa opioid agonist. so the question is, is there a potent mu agonist somewhere in the "analog field" surrounding menthol or thymoquinone's structure?
from the feelings I have gotten from nigella sativa I think it is at least possible that a mild codeine like mu agonist is possible.

I have been researching the isolated diterpenes in chaste tree and the isolated alkaloid, and the alkaloid is far stronger as a psychoactive....the diterpenes are definitely psychoactive as well, but more subtle. the alkaloid is not so subtle....actually vaporizing small amounts can be quite invigorating. the chemist that has isolated these compounds for me described some definite sexual stimulating effects...contrary I think to the general notion of chaste tree berries as a libido killer.
chaste tree is an amazing plant, and actually worshipped in Brazil by a tribe that considers it part of their "jurema" complex.

I have taken large amount of pukatea extract, and found at times that it can cause some anxiety like effects. there is definitely some minor dopaminergic activity here. when I took dxm with the extract it was much stronger, and I would compare it to a small amount of cocaine when taking the pukatea extract when on a good dose of dxm.
I dont really notice alot of painkilling effect, but the extract does mildly help withdrawl symptoms. it is a strange compound/mixture of alkaloids in that it is not overly potent, but when you have too much it really sneaks up on you.
it also gives a mild but premium stimulant effect that has a real clarity edge to it.
I was thinking that pukateine might be a decent precursor for mdma, but dont know if that is really possible....I know that there are not alot of these large trees in new zealand, but there are enough for some wildcrafting to take place.
I would really like to find out some alkaloid content information on the extract of this plant that I have, but so far, none of the chemists I know are really interested.

I just finished some bioassays of the geranyl stillbene opioid compounds found in dalea purpurea....I think the plant has some real potential. I noticed some cholinergic effects I think from the compounds in this plant. I look forward hopefully to trying some wildcrafted material of this plant this summer.

myrrh is a great pain reliever...doubters should consume a good amount along with your standard favorite opiate, it just might put you over the edge and make you puke. the 5x extract of myrrh is a fine smoking substance, and also, this material is really active insuffilated, even standard strength myrrh is active when snuffed. the myrrh actually seems to be good for your nasal passages to boot. it seems that myrrh is great for almost anything it touches....this one is a true "tree of life". an active opioid it appears, and amazing spice, medicinal, and sacred substance.

I have found some contradictory data regarding matrine....in some reports it states kappa/mu activity by direct agonist interaction....but then other data I have seen that seems more recent states that it has indirect activity through the cholinergic pathways.
I have taken up to 500 milligrams of 98% pure matrine...and noticed definitely some analgesic activity, but I also felt some strange what I would attribute to dysphoric cholinergic effects for a few hours after.
the whole extracts of sophora subprostata seem a bit better to me than just pure matrine, and the 5x extract of sophora sub. can contain 500 milligrams of matrine per 5-6 grams of the extract. a pretty damn good amount of alkaloid content.

looking over the various purported opioid salvia species besides s. divinorum I found salvia nemorosa to be the most interesting. so I am growing that one out this summer.
a chemist I know has already done this, and harvested a few score of the full grown plants and root systems and extracted them. all he would tell me is that this plant has promise. which I take to be a good thing.

I have made and taken water extracts of irvingia gabonensis, but never noticed anything there...keep in mind that I have an opiate habit though, and I could be either more sensitive to any novel effects, or insensitive.....
I have taken a few extracts of this plant produced by someone else, but same thing, didnt notice much. my doseage amounts have been around 20 grams or raw material, or a few grams of the extract.

well, I know I have spewed this stuff before...but there is it is again.
we can go over these lists for years and still be in the dark until more people start researching them.
I have probably not realized some real potential in this list, just because I get complacent with other things.
let me know if you are interested in talking in private about this stuff kingdxm, maybe you have some more info to share?

so far nothing I have tried has come close to kratom besides maybe nigella sativa.
one thing I want to try is large amounts of menthol crystals...in the gram range. to see if it really is a psychoactive stimulant like some people have stated. at most I consume something like a 100 milligrams of menthol when taking it in tea form or lozenge form. I think there might be some effects in the multi gram range.
same with camphor, but I dont think that one is a kappa agonist.

are you a chemist of any sort kingdxm?

Euphoricgirl
02-09-2007, 07:46 AM
Wow. Ok then. Got the chemical dictionary out again. :D

I have been very interested in the Laurelia Novadae, and jacky has done alittle research on this, but no one here has seemed to try it yet. I have been told it has the effects like that of morphine, do you have experience with this one? Very interesting first post, but my eyes cannot focus that long or to be honest understand half those words. Maybe Egirl is just a idiot. :(

ProdigalSon
02-09-2007, 10:15 AM
You know man, Ive done alot of research on this stuff too and its great, I LOVE to learn Science and history. But where do you get this stuff?? Online sure you can find anything Id imagine but when your searching for say "p-anehydrisepscscillinine-2" dealers ya really dont come up with much

Papa Verine
02-09-2007, 12:29 PM
I can't beleive I read every word of it. wait...yes I can. I'm becoming a little obsessed about what potential opioids might still be out there to be discovered.

What about insects, animal or oceanlife? The last time I was going through some minor opiate withdrawls I was almost sure a large meal of crab legs made me feel better. I enjoy eating crab so much I'm a little suspicious of it. Anything "I" enjoy so much should automatically be suspected of opiate activity. That's kind of a joke...

What is the possibility the next major opioid discovery will be found OUTSIDE of the plant kingdom?

Has anyone else thought about this?

jacky
02-09-2007, 12:50 PM
totally possible,....especially considering that is is already known that opiates/opioids/peptides are widespread thoughout the animal kingdom

toad skins contain morphine...that is why I assume that jlf catalog sells roadkill toad skins, not for the bufotenin, but for the morphine?

I bet that when you eat meat, you are eating some trace amount of this or that peptide/endogenous opiate....like the content of GHB that is in meat etc. mammals eating mammals, mammals that contain opiate receptors all throughout them, and there is most likely going to be some active opioids/opiates attached to those receptors isnt there?
thing is, we have some very quick enzyme catabolic processes that destroy these peptides.

you know we already have one prime source of opiated animal products, milk, can contain traces of morphine, and also contains casomorphin and I think a casien like compound. these compounds I think undergo a small change in the stomach lining. and either they are opioid active when consumed, or they become so in the body.
perhaps all we need here in this case, is to find a sufficient enzyme blocker that allows the peptide like compounds in milk to become stronger and longer lasting?

I eat milk products and consume cheese...., cheese, naturally contains higher amounts of these compounds, and I swear, late at night, having some milk and cereal, potentiates my opaite experience, then I take some hot cocoa with added chocolate, and I get pretty damn euphoric. to the point where I nod out every night, even on the same minor dose of opioids/opiate that I take.

I know anandamide, not technically an opioid, but a cannabanoid, occurs in a certian type of sausage due to some enzyme enhancement.....I wonder what a cup of cocoa, and slice of cheese, and this sausage would do to a persons mood? you have the anandamide in the cocoa and in the sausage, then you have the milk and cheese on top of that.

I think there is definitely some reinforcing attributes to these compounds in food

Papa Verine
02-09-2007, 02:11 PM
Why doesn't eating brain matter cause some CNS effect on us? Or does it? I never sucked the brains out of a pile of creyfish, I'm a Yankee. I know there are active chemicals in human tears. Although I can't find much info on the web I've read in books that people have collected their tears and drank them to feel better. Human tears caused specifically by emotions, not from a foreign object in the eye.

Also, could there be powerful opioids in plants that ALSO contain powerful toxins? Plants with both opiates and very toxic alkaloids may have never been used or recognized for any "good". Now, we can isolate certain compounds and throw away others. Maybe the next opioid to be found is hiding in something considered poisonous and thus, avoided through time. I'll have to leave that one alone but for the Chemists out there...

kingdxm
02-09-2007, 10:38 PM
Quote from Jacky,"I was thinking that pukateine might be a decent precursor for mdma, but dont know if that is really possible...."

Despite the fact that pukateine contain in it's chemical structure similarities between apomorphine and MDMA, I dserously doubt that it could be broken down or used to make MDMA sinply because of it's milti-ring structure.


http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/10/623768/kingdxm%20pictures/MDMA.jpg
MDMA


http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/10/623768/kingdxm%20pictures/apomorphine.gif
apomorphine
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/10/623768/kingdxm%20pictures/pukateine.gif

pukateine

The answer to your question"am I a chemist" I would have to say yes. I have beem studing chemistry and pharmacology for 15 years and I have a degree in pharmacology. Chemistry and pharmacology are my life. And yes I would love to privatly talk about chemistry anytime.

So if you had to rate the substances I listed form most potent to least how would you rate them? The only ones I have tried are kratom(loved it) and myrrh resin(didn't feel anything). Maybe because my stomache didn't break the resin down small enough to absorb any of the compounds, even though I ground it in a mortar and pestle. Perhaps the oil is better.

I feel that the compounds that resemble opiates and apomorphine probably act directly on receptor, while the other chemicals, like menthol, thymoquinone, and such probably act indirectly. This is just my theory though.

jacky
02-10-2007, 02:22 AM
well I am usually using these substances along with standard opiates.
I think that taking morphine is relevant to alot of peoples situation when it comes to habits, and though it would be best to assay these herbs/compounds without a tolerance, it is not to be....I have a habit.

so I may notice potentiation, tolerance reduction, synergy, but mild agonist activity will probably be lost on me and my habit.
still, some of my "research" might be relevant to other addicts.

I would rate kratom as a big first.
then nigella sativa seed oil.
myrrh (try the 5x extract and vaporize or insuffilate, and yes the oil is stronger)
sophora subprostata

I think picralima nitida would be a great species for isolation of different alkaloids. perhaps something stronger might be gleaned from isolating the different alkaloids. I have a decent amount of picralima alkaloids if a good chemist thinks they would be up to the challenge. I also have a small amount of taberneamontana pachysiphon alkaloids as well.

right now I am growing some taberneamontana holstii plants, and I am planning on producing cuttings of this species, a chemist compared my t. holstii material to t. pachysiphon and stated that there is a very similiar alkaloid profile.

tabernaemontana divaricata might be a species with potential. I have consumed the roots and tested for any toxic effect and am confident to up the dose with that species. this species is used as an analgesic.

another plant I am interested in is a type of aconiti, this one in particular is used for treatment of pain, both topically and internally. the active compound is a purported kappa opioid agonist called mesaconitine. some data suggests a opiate tolerance reducing effect with this compound, and the plant might be used potentially for opiate detox. I have cautiously prepared the root of this plant according to directions, and tested two full doses (equivalent to 30 grams root) with no apparent toxicity. I didnt notice any potentiation, but still I want to return to this one and test it for tolerance reduction effects, by taking 1/2 of my normal opiate dose, and seeing if over 3-4 days the reduction causes any discomfort.

robojunkie
02-10-2007, 03:40 AM
Hey dxmking,

With that post and all those chems/alkaloids/plants you listed, as a guy that may have knowledge in the whole neuropharm/chem area what do you think of the OLR-1 antagonist (or agonist, don't remember, its too late) J-113397? Not a lot on it other than a few papers about finding this receptor site ~10 years ago, the nociceptin peptide and the development of this compound. Yeah I know only the studies with cloned mouse/guinea pig receptors and actual mice but this seemed to demonstatrate from what I've read a significant tolerance attenuation over a week and/or longer of continuous intercranial M then narcan, as measured by the standards you mentioned. Seemed to have mixed effects depending on the dosing regimen, whether continuously increasing or up and down fluctuating M levels though. I've never been one for all the peripheral stuff other than tagamet as far as potentiation or anything for attenuation other than dxm (more for parallel universes) and really wasn't all that impressed with the low dose thing. Definitely did potentiate at dissociative doses for me but...kinda kills the point. Any theories on that one, the OLR-1 relation with the MOR and the whole receptor re-regulation (I won't say up or down as I always mix 'em up depending on what system is being talked about...)?

Papa Verine
02-10-2007, 09:13 PM
...kinda kills the point. Any theories on that one,

Yeah... You get to a apoint with disassiciatives where the effects of opiates are no longer ...anything....worth mentioning.... fucked up folks...fucked up...

Papa Verine
02-10-2007, 09:15 PM
...kinda kills the point. Any theories on that one,

Yeah... You get to a apoint with disassiciatives where the effects of opiates are no longer ...anything....worth mentioning.... fucked up folks...fucked up...

Ethanol. pods and old freinds... Hello all....

kingdxm
02-11-2007, 07:01 PM
Despite what I know in pharmacology and chemistry, I have never heard of OLR-1 antagonist J-113397. That is a new one to me. I'll write back shortly, Y am going through some withdrawls right now so it's hard to stay focused on writing.

kingdxm
02-13-2007, 07:01 PM
Pharmacologically active ingredients of chocolate Compound Amount
(%W/W) Neurotransmitters: Serotonin 0.62 - 5.82 Histamine 0.04 - 0.13 Methylxanthines: Theobromine <1.3 Caffeine ND Tetrahydroisoquinolines: Salsolinol High Methyltetrahydroisoquinoline <0.01 Amines: Phenylethylamine 0.02 - 2.20 Tele-methylhistamine 0.01 - 1.54 Spermidine 0.05 - 1.15 p-tyramine 0.02 - 0.35 3-methyloxytyramine 0.02 - 0.33 Tryptamine 0.03 - 0.18 Spermine 0.00 - 0.13 ND = not detected
Chocolate is another plant that has opoid chemicals in it. The 2 chemicals are isoquiolines: salsolinol, methyltetrahydroisoquinoline. Chocolate also has
phenethylamine, the neurotransmitter that is released when you fall in love. It is basically the parent drug to all amphetamines and is what could be called the bodies natural amphetamines. Another interesting compound is anadamide. Amadamide is the THC neurotransmitter in the brain. It is about 3/4's as potent as THC. Anadamide is also found in chocolate, although I have not found any info as to how much of it is found in chocolate. I am not sure what solvent or solvents would be good to extract the good chemicals out of chocolate. Ethanol seems like a good canidate. Most if not all of the chemicals in chocolate would probably dissolve in it. The best bet would be to use unprocessed cocoa beans as it is my opinion that cocoa powder(like Hershey's) has been processed with alkali and the active chemicals may have been lost in this process. I am not entirely certian of this though. I have yet to experiment with an extraction, but it definately worth a try. Boy inagine the next drug craze, a mixture of these chemicals in a crystalline form(Phenethylamine, tyramine, salsolinol, methyltetrahydroisoquinoline, anadamine, 3-methoxytyramine) it would probably have a pretty good euphoria.

jacky
02-14-2007, 02:37 AM
I have combined chocolate( both the alkali cocoa powder, and the whole nib form ) with various herbs and opiates, and have a couple of times experienced such strong potentiation that I could barely feel my hands, ride a bike, or get myself home.

I have only done this a few times in doses that rendered me basically unable to stay conscious when I was finally rewarded with lying down on my couch.

cocoa is obviously a potentiator of some sort.

I have read that anandamide would be destroyed in the stomach unless cocoa contained an anandamide like compound that happens to inhibit the catabolism of the anandamide molecule in the stomach.

Paregoric Kid
02-14-2007, 05:02 AM
anandamide is very interesting. there is evidence that N-oleoylethanolamine and N-linolenoylethanolamine, which are also in chocolate, prevent the metabolism of anandamide.

HistoryofMadness
02-14-2007, 09:58 AM
i made some truffles out of some potent-ass chocolate (its damn nigh just theobromine, isn't that the cocao alkaloid?), then took an kratom/opiate agonist last night, and chased with chamomille tea and after I was nice and settled i ate 3 of those truffles

i woke up sitting up snoring sometime in the middle of the night, with my head hanging back... now i was pretty tired anyway, but I NEVER fall asleep like that...

so i concur good doctors...

and just in case, if anyone wants to send chocolate, i'll continue to test... i'm a chocoholic! I swear if there were meetings I'd go (b/c instead of having cookies.........)

jacky
02-14-2007, 12:36 PM
In the USA I think doctors can prescribe naltrexone to inhibit the desire for chocolate.

Curio
02-14-2007, 12:39 PM
In the USA I think doctors can prescribe naltrexone to inhibit the desire for chocolate.

well THAT'S no fun!!

:confused: :D

morphiquet
02-14-2007, 01:47 PM
hi all,
could someone give me the chemical structure of vitricine, i'm really interested in that.
strangely, it isn't listed on pubchem. quite weird as you usually can find any molecule there.

do you think they've intentionally removed vitricine from the database??

HistoryofMadness
02-14-2007, 02:14 PM
In the USA I think doctors can prescribe naltrexone to inhibit the desire for chocolate.

well maybe i should skip the middle man because i prescribe myself chocolate to inhibit my desire for opiates. and it works. but it makes me want coke.

jacky
02-15-2007, 01:51 AM
I think the vitricine might not be listed as it is not mentioned much except in older publications.

vitricine might be the alkaloidal material that I am interested in. but would have to know more from the chemist to know for sure. I am thinking it is a good chance that the alkaloid at least contains some vitricine, but there might be other alkaloid material as well.

I recently obtained some more of this chaste tree alkaloidal material, and vaporized a tiny amount, around 15 milligrams. it didnt seem to be as strong as I experienced a few months ago, but still obviously psychoactive.

I dont think the compound would be removed from the data base because of its activity, from what I can tell, most people have avoided the plant cause they think it is mostly for women, and dont know that the plant is a common spice, at least in this country(USA).
I have been telling people that this plant is psychoactive for 4 years now, and when I watch people that I know try the plants various products I see a few suprised faces.

kingdxm
02-22-2007, 03:16 PM
Last week I ran out of my percocets and was worried about having withdrawls. I purchased a bottle of black cohosh standardized extract(200mg). It also contained 100mg standardized extract of chasteberry tree. I took about 15 capsules. There was a very slight euphoria, mostly a relaxed feeling. in about a 24 hour period I took about 40 capsules. I didn't get a buzz from them but I did get the impression that it halted any withdrawl symptoms, which was good enough for me. More tests should be done one these herbs to see if they very well inhibit withdrawl from opiates.

researcher
03-05-2007, 04:51 PM
Hi dudes

How come you guys didnt mention Glaucine Hydroklorid its sold as Glaucine hcl 99,7% at swedish onlineshops and is compared to kodien in strenght and buzz.

Anyhow Glaucium oxylobum and Argemone mexicana seems to be the main source for Glaucine but
Papaver apokrinomenon
Papaver pilosum
Papaver spicatum var.luschanii
Papaver spicatum var.spicatum
Papaver strictum
also contains Glaucine.

How but that? im posting a interesting link to:
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:muDtRTkeDJUJ:www.iupac.org/publications/pac/2002/pdf/7404x0557.pdf+contain+Glaucine&hl=sv&ct=clnk&cd=21&gl=se (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:muDtRTkeDJUJ:www.iupac.org/publications/pac/2002/pdf/7404x0557.pdf+contain+Glaucine&hl=sv&ct=clnk&cd=21&gl=se)

Peace out

jacky
03-05-2007, 05:46 PM
I have done plenty of glaucine, I dont mention it much cause it doesnt seem to potentiate opiates, nor does is carry an opiate like buzz. it does create some psychoactive effect, mainly a buzzy feeling the 1st hour or two after consumption.
I took doses varying from 50 milligrams to upwards of 500 milligrams.

the higher doses, left me rather uncomfortably breathless, and I suffered some insomnia dealing with the breathing problems.

I still think glaucine has some potential, especially when mixed with other compounds, but by itself it is nothing amazing.

kratboy
03-09-2007, 11:21 AM
or you
coulda just
said Hello.


You kill me, (one-inch) man!

Sorry, I know this was a month ago, but i've been away for awhile...

kingdxm
03-29-2007, 01:32 AM
So has anyone out there found any new natural opiates or at least tested the already existing ones?

SalvationThroughDilaudid
04-03-2007, 10:10 AM
toad skins contain morphine...that is why I assume that jlf catalog sells roadkill toad skins, not for the bufotenin, but for the morphine?


Awww fuck man, you shouldn't have posted that where I can read it, you realize now you're gonna have a drunk madman running around catching toads and trying to lick'em to get high ?!?!

If anybody hears about some raging, bald, drunken lunatic runnin around lickin toads, you know who to blame !!! :p

jacky
04-04-2007, 01:26 AM
well, I dont thinking licking them will work.

you gots to eat the skin.
and maybe some other compounds that you dont want as well.

Jonathon Ott mentions toads skins containing morphine, but I dont know how much we are talking about.

maybe a gram or two of morphine per square inch of toad skin. and if you sew it into a little pouch, there will be a life time of morphine deposited in the baggy every night at 12pm. its magic.

leave those toads alone!!

but if you get the hankering to collect dead toads on the road and get ahold of some HPLC equipment and good chemistry...then maybe some morphine could be collected in this reality

SalvationThroughDilaudid
04-04-2007, 02:33 AM
you gots to eat the skin.



Can you say "toad rhines"? I see little toad chicarones in my future.:cool:

existential_apathy
05-28-2009, 01:27 PM
Funny, I'm actually drinking chaste berry tea as we speak. I'm not sure what dosage I used, but I have 16 oz of powder and I'm trying to use it up. I used quite a large dose I'd imagine, it filled about a fourth of my tea cup. I'm noticing a stimulating but relaxing buzz, and very slight changes in color and a sharpening of vision. I should try some of it out the next I have opiate withdrawals. It's not terribly euphoric but it's certainly an interesting buzz.

EDIT: It's a shame this topic died. Any new experiences?

southernbelle
05-28-2009, 01:31 PM
Sugar, check your dates. This one's 2 years old...;-)

existential_apathy
05-28-2009, 01:39 PM
Check what I said at bottom. Topic is still interesting. I don't see a point in starting a whole new thread.

pain-patient
05-29-2009, 07:40 AM
totally possible,....especially considering that is is already known that opiates/opioids/peptides are widespread thoughout the animal kingdom

toad skins contain morphine...that is why I assume that jlf catalog sells roadkill toad skins, not for the bufotenin, but for the morphine?

I bet that when you eat meat, you are eating some trace amount of this or that peptide/endogenous opiate..


Actually, if the meat is cooked, I doubt you are eating ANY peptides since proteins begin congealing at about 115 degress Farheneit (not sure what that would be in the Communist...err, Celcius, system:rolleyes:......

Good to have you here and I hope you find us some of a plant called Doctora-prescribia-maxima -- an extract which contains oxycodone, hydromorphone, klonopin, marinol, lyrica, parafon forte, and ritalin. I hear it's a very rare extract as all of the Doctora-precribia species are dying out due to a lethal pathogenic fungus, DEA-sucko-latus:cool:.

In all seriousness, though, keep up your work on this as there must something out there as good as the opi's we know and love, but perhaps obtainable sans Doctora-prescribia, perhaps via the internet, and which ships at rates less than what it would cost to ship pure air!

Just think of all the opioid like compounds made by the animal nervous system, and then add the plants that I believe co-evolved with animals, and you're startin' to accumulate a veritable pharmacy -- minus the asshole pharmacist:D!

pain-patient
05-29-2009, 07:44 AM
totally possible,....especially considering that is is already known that opiates/opioids/peptides are widespread thoughout the animal kingdom....

I know anandamide, not technically an opioid, but a cannabanoid, occurs in a certian type of sausage due to some enzyme enhancement.....I wonder what a cup of cocoa, and slice of cheese, and this sausage would do to a persons mood? you have the anandamide in the cocoa and in the sausage, then you have the milk and cheese on top of that.

I think there is definitely some reinforcing attributes to these compounds in food


Anadamide would not be bioavailable when it is in the ingested food, would it? I guess this a question for all the chemies out there like RoboJ, et alia.

pain-patient
05-29-2009, 07:50 AM
...Despite the fact that pukateine contain in it's chemical structure similarities between apomorphine and MDMA, I dserously doubt that it could be broken down or used to make MDMA sinply because of it's milti-ring structure.

pukateine

The answer to your question"am I a chemist" I would have to say yes. I have beem studing chemistry and pharmacology for 15 years and I have a degree in pharmacology. Chemistry and pharmacology are my life. And yes I would love to privatly talk about chemistry anytime.

Ok, Mr. Goodman and Gilman (they still do use that as the text in pharmacology class? It's been about 20 years since I took Intro Pharmie, back when we did not even know cannabinoid receptors existed!), my question if why in the Hell would ANYONE name a substance that might be ingested by a sentient human being PUK-A-TEEN???

I mean, it almost sounds like something you would give your strung out high-school dropout kid to prevent them from eating YOUR pharmaceutcials by causing them to PUKE!

But, then again, I remember being crazy-ass amused by the prevalence of DOPE-A-MEAN in physiology.....;)

JOIN THE Campaign to Rename PUK-A-TEEN to something sexy and alluring.......maybe orgasmateen?:cool:

pain-patient
05-29-2009, 08:00 AM
Hey dxmking,

With that post and all those chems/alkaloids/plants you listed, as a guy that may have knowledge in the whole neuropharm/chem area what do you think of the OLR-1 antagonist (or agonist, don't remember, its too late) J-113397? Not a lot on it other than a few papers about finding this receptor site ~10 years ago, the nociceptin peptide and the development of this compound. Yeah I know only the studies with cloned mouse/guinea pig receptors and actual mice but this seemed to demonstatrate from what I've read a significant tolerance attenuation over a week and/or longer of continuous intercranial M then narcan, as measured by the standards you mentioned. Seemed to have mixed effects depending on the dosing regimen, whether continuously increasing or up and down fluctuating M levels though. I've never been one for all the peripheral stuff other than tagamet as far as potentiation or anything for attenuation other than dxm (more for parallel universes) and really wasn't all that impressed with the low dose thing. Definitely did potentiate at dissociative doses for me but...kinda kills the point. Any theories on that one, the OLR-1 relation with the MOR and the whole receptor re-regulation (I won't say up or down as I always mix 'em up depending on what system is being talked about...)?

Robo --

Now ya went and got me all confused!:mad: You are correct, sir, in your assertion that there's very little out there about J-113,397 and the situation with respect to OLR-1 ain't much better.

Are you saying that OLR-1 plays a role in receptor regulation -- be it upregulation or downregulation -- and that the J-113,397 analogue acts as an antagonist at OLR-1? If so, does this mean that OLR-1 has a significant role in the development and extinction of tolerance? If so, is there an opiate analogue to, say, pregabalin (Lyrica)?

pain-patient
05-29-2009, 08:07 AM
In the USA I think doctors can prescribe naltrexone to inhibit the desire for chocolate.


I guess that's consistent with old saying of a radiologist friend of mine -- "Doctors want you feel WELL, not GOOD":mad:.

OxiContinKing
05-29-2009, 11:41 AM
wow I don't think I've ever seen anyone on here post 5 times in a row...

or on any forum...

:cool: