wanting to switch from percs to dillies for pain

[one legged poppy]

I'm an amputee from a bad mill accident in 1987, 14 surgies & 20 years later. Still fighting Neuroma & phantom pain in a 10 + scale sometimes mostly in winter. New to the site, but not new to "pain" & pain management. Iv'e had tylenol # 3's, vicodin, methadone, demerol, & now been on 10/325 percs 5 times a day for 4 years now. They still seem to work pretty good, But NOT for the + 10 pain episodes in the winter. My doc appnt. is this week was thinking about asking him to change me to dillies. Any info would be helpful, How to ask him, milligrams per pill per day? Thanks
P.S. I've taken a few k4's in past seem to work ok.

[HistoryofMadness]

i'd recommend based on what i've heard and limited experience to talk about the pain and leave the med talk to the doc. i think it makes them nervous to hear a patient talk like he knows his drugs.

you could say you joined an online community for chronic pain folks and they were discussing breakthrough pain meds for major episodes.

it really sounds like you're dealing with a doc that doesn't like to prescribe, because those are all pretty mild pain meds. i got percs for my dislocated finger.

is he/she a chronic pain specialist? if not maybe that's the direction you could go in...

[Dolophine]

Dilaudid sucks ass as a sole treatment for pain. You can't just be on Dilaudid it's so short acting you'd be taking like 100 of them a day to help your pain. You need something that lasts a long time and then something for breakthrough. You should be on Methadone, and then have Dilaudid for breakthrough or something similar. Or if Methadone doesn't suit you, you should be on Oxycontin and Dilaudid for breakthrough or something similar. Either way you should probably be on a long acting narcotic and a short one for those episodes you mentioned.

After being only on Dilaudid for a while you'd be switching back to something more longer acting. Even Percocet is longer acting than Dilaudid. And is more effective in my opinion. I.V dilaudid on the other hand, is effective for pain. But the pills suck. But hey it's up to you, you don't know unless you try it i guess. If your in pain all the time you should really be on something to maintain you and keep your pain at a tolerable level and then you should have the breakthrough for the times when it's really bad.

My mom has a bad case of chronic pain and nothing but Methadone does the trick it's strange. She takes percocet as breakthrough once it's out of control but she takes maybe 1-2 of them a month so her pain is pretty well controlled. I dont think you can ever be pain free but it sounds like you have some pretty nasty pain that needs some strong treatment. Another option may be Fentanyl patches as your long acting med and percocet or dilaudid as your breakthrough med. Or maybe Methadone and fentanyl suckers for breakthrough. There are plenty of combos of long acting and short acting narcotics you and your doc can dream up. Look into it.

Also don't request to be switched to something or they will think you are a drug seeker. you should just say your having alot more pain and the medication your on is not cutting it and then he will probably move up to Dilaudid or Oxycontin or Fentanyl etc. Good luck! hope you get the medication you need to help your pain!

[one legged poppy]

Thanks for the info guys. I was on methadone for 1 1/2 years didn't like after awhile it made to sleepy. I still work part time couldn't make a full shift without wanting to pass out. All other opiods I've taken do not make me sleepy, during the day. Thanks for the help! maybe I'll hint for doc to switch me from my 2 short acting pain meds like the one's i'm taking now, 10/325 percs 5 times a day & 100mg demerol tablets for brakethrough pain, I only get 20 a month though. - To oxycontin for a long duration pain med & hopefully something like dillies for brakethough pain.
P.S. Can U crush & snort demerol tablets, or is it better just to swallow, or even better can U crush & hit them?

[youwonhundred]

Since I am in a very similar situation, I can totally relate. Winter is the absolute worst! I got perc 10s for about a year, then finally told my doc that I needed something longer acting. So he kept me on the percs and added MS contin. Orally, they aren't much as far as a high (only get the 15's at present) but I have found them to be quite effective (at the prescribed dose, even) for my pain.

While I too would like to get dilaudids for BT, being fairly young, with long hair and tattoos, the doc is hesitant to script them. Its probably a good thing, though. If I had a months supply of them, I don't see 'em lasting more than a couple days. The rush is just too damn nice. Just a suggestion here, but asking for specific drugs is a major mistake.

My doc (luckily) is a compassionate sort, and has upped my meds pretty much whenever I have asked. I don't push it, of course, 'cause I don't want to fuck up a good thing. I recall someone mentioning a pain management specialist, and that is probably the best advice, if you don't already see one. I have my GP, wound care doc, vascular surgeon, hematologist, and last but not least, my pain management doc (he's board certified as an anesthesiologist). I only see him once a month, but the few times I have run short, he has been quite accommodating regarding rescheduling the appointments a couple days early.

The best way I can suggest to get him to up your meds is to emphasize the pain, and explain that the shorter acting meds just leave you hurting half the time. I haven't tried asking for specific meds, but something just tells me that would be a mistake. Like I said, I don't want to fuck up a good thing. $4.30 a month for percs and MS contin.... I can't complain much.

Good luck.

[nick]

Don't take this the wrong way man,but if you ain't prepared to shoot D you might be better off with something else.I've heard some good things about Opana.Good luck.

[superman]

i agree with nick. the stuff is much better in your arm, probably 4-fold stronger by my guestimate

[youwonhundred]

Is there any other way to do them?

[Dolophine]

Thanks for the info guys. I was on methadone for 1 1/2 years didn't like after awhile it made to sleepy. I still work part time couldn't make a full shift without wanting to pass out. All other opiods I've taken do not make me sleepy, during the day. Thanks for the help! maybe I'll hint for doc to switch me from my 2 short acting pain meds like the one's i'm taking now, 10/325 percs 5 times a day & 100mg demerol tablets for brakethrough pain, I only get 20 a month though. - To oxycontin for a long duration pain med & hopefully something like dillies for brakethough pain.
P.S. Can U crush & snort demerol tablets, or is it better just to swallow, or even better can U crush & hit them?

DONT SNORT A DEMEROL TABLET! Did it when i was 15, will never do it again. I had 120 of them and broken them into powder for some reason i guess to impress people or something I dont know why. lmao. And i tried to sniff it and it was horrible. DONTTTT do it!!!!

You'll probably be crying and have the worst burning sensation ever. I had the red 50's the time I snorted the powder i forget the brand but they were awful! I would never repeat it again. I ended up gelcapping the powder and eating them. I don't really like snorting things though. I mean i've snorted ritalin, coke, demerol, morphine, oxy and none of them are even 1/10th the bitterness of demerol.

Also, Demerol is supposedly neurotoxic so dont take alot of it at once. I'm not sure why they prescribe demerol. It doesn't really give an opiate high for me. It's more of a drunken chemical buzz I mean it's pleasurable but it's nothing like Oxycodone to me. It's got it's own effects that seem to be seperate from opiates that i have tried. You said your doc only gives you 20 a month though so thats pretty good he/she probably knows it's not good to give people like 200 of them a month cuz of the damage it can do. I wouldnt be worried about 20 Demerol a month though.. When i was like 15 I took 7 of the 100mg demerol and my tolerance had gone down at that time I almost went unconcious and i was choking on my own tongue i was just about to like pass out unconcious but after 30 mins of being like totally dead I got up and was okay I guess it wore off. But yah anyways, good luck with your doctor hopefully he'll give you something long acting and a breakthrough. You deserve it after getting that injury!

[OxyContinuously]

DONT SNORT A DEMEROL TABLET! Did it when i was 15, will never do it again. I had 120 of them and broken them into powder for some reason i guess to impress people or something I dont know why. lmao. And i tried to sniff it and it was horrible. DONTTTT do it!!!!

You'll probably be crying and have the worst burning sensation ever. I had the red 50's the time I snorted the powder i forget the brand but they were awful! I would never repeat it again. I ended up gelcapping the powder and eating them. I don't really like snorting things though. I mean i've snorted ritalin, coke, demerol, morphine, oxy and none of them are even 1/10th the bitterness of demerol.

Also, Demerol is supposedly neurotoxic so dont take alot of it at once. I'm not sure why they prescribe demerol. It doesn't really give an opiate high for me. It's more of a drunken chemical buzz I mean it's pleasurable but it's nothing like Oxycodone to me. It's got it's own effects that seem to be seperate from opiates that i have tried. You said your doc only gives you 20 a month though so thats pretty good he/she probably knows it's not good to give people like 200 of them a month cuz of the damage it can do. I wouldnt be worried about 20 Demerol a month though.. When i was like 15 I took 7 of the 100mg demerol and my tolerance had gone down at that time I almost went unconcious and i was choking on my own tongue i was just about to like pass out unconcious but after 30 mins of being like totally dead I got up and was okay I guess it wore off. But yah anyways, good luck with your doctor hopefully he'll give you something long acting and a breakthrough. You deserve it after getting that injury!


Oh, man!! I can totally relate to you. I made the same mistake, needless to say never ever again. It was disgusting and it burned (almost as bad as snorting 2CB but *nothing* burns like that!!)

[one legged poppy]

Thanks guys for all the info. & real HELP U all are giving me! A little history on me & my pain management doc. When I 1st met him in 1994 he was new to the area, & I was 1 of his 1st paitents. He's seen me go through all the bull with other docs like neroligist, orthopedics, surgeons. And he also help to get into a medical study at John Hopkins Univerity for phantom pain amputees with cronic severe PAIN. In which they tried 3 meds on me in 1 year, (1) ms contin, (2) mexlitine, (3) placebo. Needless to say none of them worked. After that he put me on methadone for a 1 1/2 years, at my request. Made me too sleepy. So at my request we tried loracet 10/325 3 times a day for 6 months with qctic suckers for BT. pain The suckers worked great for the BT. pain. Soon my tolerance grew fast to the loracet. So then at my request we switched to the percs 5 times a day, with NO BT meds. He said the DEA was cracking down the qctic suckers only for cancer paitents, so he gave me the demerol 100 mg. 10 a month. This winter has been hard. I had to go to the ER a couple of times. So at my request he uped it to 20 a month. So he is a understanding pain doc! Through the years he has given me almost everything I ASKED. So maybe I will ask for a long acting med like oxycontin,. And hope for dillies for BT. pain! I think he will go for it he knows :confused: I,mn not a fake. Thanks again for the helpful info.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, I agree: don't want to show too much drug knowledge. Docs are kind of savvy to dilaudids and oxycontin, which are like candy to opiate addicts. And I too haven't found that oral dialudids do much for pain, either. Since you are legit, I'd look to methadone or some long lasting morphine, and take it as prescribed, then maybe if u keep on doc, he might give u fentanyl or oxys for breakthru. Seems like main thing is to keep on'em, maybe even switch to pain clinic, where docs seem more willing to prescribe. In last decade or two, pain pills became popular among the young, and what with DEA crackdowns and such, it's hard to get past the legal crap. But real pain, eventually you'll get something. I know down in Texas, and in Louisiana, in the newer, private, methadone clinics, seems like there were more and more chronic pain people, maybe addicts too, but still, it was only way they could get a sufficient amount of pain meds.
Good luck to you...

[Dolophine]

I hope you'll get the pain control you need! Anything that will help you live your life with less pain is a good thing. We're happy to help and i'm happy you didn't snort the Demerol or your nose would be kicking you in the ass for it! Looks like you've tried most of the medications that are available, but there's still Opana and I heard Fentanyl isn't being cracked down on as much anymore. Apparently the off label prescribing is okay now . Or so i've heard. Apparently the DEA is letting docs use their own discretion as long as the medication is justified. And i'd certainly say in your case you are justified and deserve whatever you need to make you feel better. The DEA isn't going to crack down on a doctor who's prescribing pain medication for someone who lost their leg in an accident in a mill. That would be pretty low to crack down on a doctor who's helping someone who lost a limb. That would make bad press and not sound good on the 6 O'clock news! hahah

The DEA or police can't say anything to your doc about what he gives you because you have a real visible condition. It's not something that's fake. It's real and indisputable. No DEA agent is going to crack down on a doc who is treating an amputee for pain. So get what you need! Your doc shouldn't be afraid he sounds like a good doctor, you deserve to be comfortable and to enjoy your life!!! And i'm sure you'll get something to help you soon! Just hang in there!

Sounds like you've had a rough life for the past while. It takes a lot of courage and strength to deal with something like that. The rehabilitation, the pain, the psychological aspect of it. I can't even imagine that happening to me. I have a bleeding disorder and if it did happen I would die but If it happened and I survived I don't even know what I would do. It would be a hard thing for me to deal with. I can't imagine losing a finger or toe, let alone an arm or a leg. You are one tough guy! I assume your a guy, Because you worked in a mill, but if your not, sorry about the mixup! anyways, your tough, no matter what sex you are. It's been nice to meet you, my name is Tom. If you have any questions or anything just send me a private message. Take it easy!

Take care! ---Dolophine---

[one legged poppy]

:) Thanks again guy's. It's nice to find some friends on the net who reeelly understand my situation. My pain doc really is an understanding doc, He probably would give me anythhing I'd request if something wasn't working. I see him in a few days maybe I will just tell him the pain has been reallyintinse this winter & see if we can make some meds changes & see what he comes up wtih. Everyone has good things to say about opana. I did some googling it's oxymorphone, Is that stronger than oxycodone or does it last longer & is it in generic yet. Thanks PHILLIP