Shorter poppy growth cycle?

[papaver sapien]

I have been doing some research on the web lately trying to find out if the poppy growth cycle can be sped up. I did find a research article DEA or something like it that showed longer days or continuous days 3-4 days straight sped up growth and that longer nights can be used to trigger blooming. The question I have for everyone is has anyone in the community tried this for indoor growing? How did it effect opium quality, quantity. I found an obscure reference that suggested morphine content is directly affected by how long the plants cycle is ie 90 day plants have less opiates than 120 day plants. I am looking to grow some poppies this winter because of high prices, low quality and chronic pain. If I could grow poppies faster with 18 hour days fluro lights etc heck maybe even longer I'll try it. Thanks for the help guys.

[insanesteveo]

give it a try. let us know when ya start. take pictures.

everyone loves seeing people grows. most are outdoor. just easier. but an indoor grow would be fun and a little more challenging.

good luck man


edit--forgot to add this. i have also read that the poppy flowers in longer light cycles. unlike mj that flowers at 12 hours light, poppies flower at 18+ hours. and i beleive before that you only give them 12 hours of light. think about how they come up in the spring, when the day is short, then as the days get longer they grow faster and then bloom when the day hits 18 hours or so.

[Delo]

First off have to say that I have been reading opiophile and the PORG for quite some time but this is my first post. (I would post in the PORG all the time but they have it locked down tight.) I have been growing poppies indoors and out for quite some time now. Indoors is great but its pretty difficult to get enough poppies indoors to make it worth while. First off let me say that although the DEA publications seem helpfull, they are making it seem harder than it is for a reason. From some of my experiments I have found that poppies bolt (Bloom) quicker if grown under a 24 hour light regimen. Poppies grown under a 12 - 12 photoperiod seemed to bolt up to 40 days later than plants grown under continuous light. Now to answer you 18 - 6 question, some people believe this is the key but in my experience I find it to be 6 hours of wasted non growth. You also have to realise that poppy photoperiod has not been experimented with much. poppies.org has alot more info on the photoperiod if you need more info. Remember these plants grow close to the equator.
Now onto opioid content, one word for you "ROOTS". As with any plant the bigger the root system the more alkaloids the plant can produce. Photoperiod in my experience short of having a chemist on hand does not play a major role in alkaloid content. Also poppies really only grow 90 or so days and the blooms indoors only last 3 days to a week. The only time length of growth matters is outdoors when your poppies have the opportunity to grow for long times sometimes as long as over winter. Poppies started in spring don't seem to be as strong as poppies planted in fall and over wintered.
Also if you wish to try growing, start off with grocery store seeds. Contrary to popular belief these work great and are ussually extremely potent.
Sorry that my spelling and grammar suck but what do you expect im a farmer. hope this helps some people out and if you need any more info don't be afraid to ask. I got alot of info and its falling on dead ears.

[jacky]

I have read one report by researchers in turkey that stated the highest levels of alkaloids present in the plant were determined to be before the petals have fallen, before the pod has swollen large, and in the ROOTS of the plants.

so I hear you delo when you emphasize the roots of this plant as a source for alkaloids.

but I havnt personally done any research here, and havnt seen much other data than this one bit I refer to, the source was not an internet source, I found in a book from the 70's on alkaloid production.

even if the alkaloid levels are less than a full grown plant, my reasoning is that the plants can be planted, in large amounts, in rows, and when the plant sends up the flower, cut it down to the height of the leaf appendages, and then basically grow what looks like lettuce. harvest the plant, as much of the root as possible, and tincture or other preperation and keep a low profile.

[Delo]

even if the alkaloid levels are less than a full grown plant, my reasoning is that the plants can be planted, in large amounts, in rows, and when the plant sends up the flower, cut it down to the height of the leaf appendages, and then basically grow what looks like lettuce. harvest the plant, as much of the root as possible, and tincture or other preperation and keep a low profile.


Actually as far as I know the alkaloid production is in the stem and pod. There is actually alot of debate over whether opium is produced in the foliage or not. I have cut lettuce off before and noticed a white substance bleeding from the wound, but never enough to refine.
As far as keeping a low profile is concerned, one of my favorite methods of growing is "GUERRILLA GROWING". Basically growing in places where you are not aloud to grow.
You have to remember that the poppy doesnt look like a drug when its growing. Its not like your growing pot in a playground, your growing wildflowers that few people realize contain drugs. And poppies thrive on neglect(Grown in Afghanistan, China, Mongolia and anywhere else the soil is'nt good enough to grow regular cash crops. This makes it a perfect candidate to plant and forget until its harvest time. And if you plant soon harvest could be as early as JULY!
I like to find places that I could easily break up the soil or the soil has already been broken up for me. Examples include new soil piles, landslides, construction sites you get what I mean. Then go to the grocery store and get a bottle of McKormick poppy seeds or any wholesale poppy seeds.(Some people believe these to be a mythical non-morphine containing poppy named "NORMANS". This is Bullshit, I have grown them and I have grown expensive mail-order varieties and they are the same with different flowers and sizes. All you need are Papaver Somniferum seeds and your good to go.
When it comes to spreading the seeds all you need to do is get a handfull and spread them all over the broken earth. If you do this right before or during a rain it greatly increases the germination rate. After you have sown the seeds all you have to do is wait. It wont hurt to check on them once in a while but it is not needed. You dont even really need to fertilize them though it wont hurt em either. The normal time it takes a poppy to bloom is 90 days so just watch the calandar. Before you know it you will have pods for tea or opium to smoke or refine.
Trust me this works, I have been doing it for years and never, ever, ever run out of pods and Op. You can even freeze some of the fresh pods and make smoothies with them anytime. I usually buy my seeds for $8.50 a pound, and a pound can cover alot of ground.
*As a side note I live in PA and I started sowing this years seeds yesterday. I also start tons indoors in peat pellets. Poppies hate being transplanted, the only way I have found to be foolproof is in peat pellets or pots where you can plant the pot and everything.
*PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS, There were times years ago when I was ready to kill myself over WD. If I knew then what I knew now I would never have been sick in the first place. Everyone is so worried how and when they will get there next fix. For Fucks Sake be self sufficient. Grow people Grow. Its so fucking easy, I mean poppies are self seeding meaning when they dry up on the plant in the fall it disperses its seeds. If all of you planted poppies eventually it would grow everywhere naturally. How can they keep it legal if it grows naturally? I wonder...
*One last thing, growing in strait lines while it may seem practical ussually draws more attention than needed. You dont want them to look like they were planted ut rather growing naturally.

[insanesteveo]

Actually as far as I know the alkaloid production is in the stem and pod. There is actually alot of debate over whether opium is produced in the foliage or not. I have cut lettuce off before and noticed a white substance bleeding from the wound, but never enough to refine.
As far as keeping a low profile is concerned, one of my favorite methods of growing is "GUERRILLA GROWING". Basically growing in places where you are not aloud to grow.
You have to remember that the poppy doesnt look like a drug when its growing. Its not like your growing pot in a playground, your growing wildflowers that few people realize contain drugs. And poppies thrive on neglect(Grown in Afghanistan, China, Mongolia and anywhere else the soil is'nt good enough to grow regular cash crops. This makes it a perfect candidate to plant and forget until its harvest time. And if you plant soon harvest could be as early as JULY!
I like to find places that I could easily break up the soil or the soil has already been broken up for me. Examples include new soil piles, landslides, construction sites you get what I mean. Then go to the grocery store and get a bottle of McKormick poppy seeds or any wholesale poppy seeds.(Some people believe these to be a mythical non-morphine containing poppy named "NORMANS". This is Bullshit, I have grown them and I have grown expensive mail-order varieties and they are the same with different flowers and sizes. All you need are Papaver Somniferum seeds and your good to go.
When it comes to spreading the seeds all you need to do is get a handfull and spread them all over the broken earth. If you do this right before or during a rain it greatly increases the germination rate. After you have sown the seeds all you have to do is wait. It wont hurt to check on them once in a while but it is not needed. You dont even really need to fertilize them though it wont hurt em either. The normal time it takes a poppy to bloom is 90 days so just watch the calandar. Before you know it you will have pods for tea or opium to smoke or refine.
Trust me this works, I have been doing it for years and never, ever, ever run out of pods and Op. You can even freeze some of the fresh pods and make smoothies with them anytime. I usually buy my seeds for $8.50 a pound, and a pound can cover alot of ground.
*As a side note I live in PA and I started sowing this years seeds yesterday. I also start tons indoors in peat pellets. Poppies hate being transplanted, the only way I have found to be foolproof is in peat pellets or pots where you can plant the pot and everything.
*PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS, There were times years ago when I was ready to kill myself over WD. If I knew then what I knew now I would never have been sick in the first place. Everyone is so worried how and when they will get there next fix. For Fucks Sake be self sufficient. Grow people Grow. Its so fucking easy, I mean poppies are self seeding meaning when they dry up on the plant in the fall it disperses its seeds. If all of you planted poppies eventually it would grow everywhere naturally. How can they keep it legal if it grows naturally? I wonder...
*One last thing, growing in strait lines while it may seem practical ussually draws more attention than needed. You dont want them to look like they were planted ut rather growing naturally.

its been said before, but not so detailed and direct. points for you, mostly because im drunk and high, but not damn opiates. and im staring at vicodin and pod powder, oh the temptation.

[Delo]

Jacky, your idea about extracting op from roots and leaves inspired me to do a little research and experimentation on some non-opiate using friends of mine last night and I think the results mite surprise you.

1. First I went out to the drug store and bought a half dozen drug tests that only tested for morphine.
2. I rounded up a few guinea pigs who we will call A, B and C.
3. I happen to have the luxury of having Papaver Somn. growing in many different stages laying around.
4. I gave each subject a urine test to make sure they were'nt lying about being clean.
a. They all passed!
5. I gave subject A 5 grams of fresh sprouts with roots intact.
6. Gave subject B 5 grams of fresh lettuce. "About 2 months old, Leaves 1" to 2" across.
7. Gave subject C(Who happens to be able to eat anything) 5 grams of thouroughly cleaned roots.
8. After waiting an hour I retested all 3 subjects...
9. Bam, they all failed misserably...
a. I did'nt spend enough to get tests that will tell me the levels but you all get the idea...

So I did some research and found that op is in all parts of the plants except the seedling, which I now dispute as being fact. I was able to find a little bit of info on pressing the juices out of fresh Op lettuce and then making some sort of tincture from it, but I dont believe it is the same alkaloid that bleeds from the pod.
So if I had to summarize this I would have to say that it COULD be possible to try to extract Op from the rest of the plant, but you would need incredible quantities of plant matter... You would probably have to grow 100 times as much lettuce as you would just letting them go to pods...
Any way Thanks Jacky for responding, you may be on to something...
If anyone else has any info on this subject please share... I am very interested...

[insanesteveo]

Jacky, your idea about extracting op from roots and leaves inspired me to do a little research and experimentation on some non-opiate using friends of mine last night and I think the results mite surprise you.

1. First I went out to the drug store and bought a half dozen drug tests that only tested for morphine.
2. I rounded up a few guinea pigs who we will call A, B and C.
3. I happen to have the luxury of having Papaver Somn. growing in many different stages laying around.
4. I gave each subject a urine test to make sure they were'nt lying about being clean.
a. They all passed!
5. I gave subject A 5 grams of fresh sprouts with roots intact.
6. Gave subject B 5 grams of fresh lettuce. "About 2 months old, Leaves 1" to 2" across.
7. Gave subject C(Who happens to be able to eat anything) 5 grams of thouroughly cleaned roots.
8. After waiting an hour I retested all 3 subjects...
9. Bam, they all failed misserably...
a. I did'nt spend enough to get tests that will tell me the levels but you all get the idea...

So I did some research and found that op is in all parts of the plants except the seedling, which I now dispute as being fact. I was able to find a little bit of info on pressing the juices out of fresh Op lettuce and then making some sort of tincture from it, but I dont believe it is the same alkaloid that bleeds from the pod.
So if I had to summarize this I would have to say that it COULD be possible to try to extract Op from the rest of the plant, but you would need incredible quantities of plant matter... You would probably have to grow 100 times as much lettuce as you would just letting them go to pods...
Any way Thanks Jacky for responding, you may be on to something...
If anyone else has any info on this subject please share... I am very interested...

so youre saying that there is indeed morphine in the sprouts? along with all the others of course. like ive said before, i have a small dish of poppy seeds sprouting right now. they are starting to look good. im sure there wouldnt be much in them, but when if you had shelves full of these seeds sprouting?

well when they get about an inch or two tall im going to harvest them and see if they work. ill definitely be taking pictures if this goes well.

[jacky]

well delo, I got to say that I am impressed with your experiment.

and I am not at all suprised.

the data that suggests highest alkaloid content in the roots at a certian time was gathered/researched by a team of scientists, doing analytical chemistry, for a company with probably millions invested in pharmaceutical precursor production,so I have always though that they were competent researchers.

many different plants use the root system as a factory of alkaloid production and storage. the alkaloids are spread throughout the plant at different times of the year, and with some perrennials, the alkaloids are even extracted BACK into the roots for further storage.

In my area poppy pods grow like thin whisps in the high dry desert, if it isnt watered, they dont grow well, to boot the ground is mostly hard packed clay and sand in areas that are not landscaped for the most part.
there is also alot of area in study by biologists all over the river areas, fish and game, cops searching for weed, cops searching for tramp camps.....and people poaching, up to no good....I just couldnt take the risk in trying to grow poppies in my area.
go up 2000 feet in my area, a few hours drive and its a different story plenty of moisture and areas that there are "endemic" populations (at least for the last 150 years) of abandoned poppy pod regenerating every year........but also again, there are "hill" people, landowners, and plenty of cops on motocross outfits again, looking for people drumming up trouble, even more fish and game, forestry, highway patrol, etc etc.

so I dont grow the flower, there are some gardens in the north end of town that prominently display them, some hens and chicks bushes, and some huge podded varietys that I see in the middle of flower displays.

I wouldnt be suprised if it is an industry standard to harvest roots as well now, and harvest the plant a little earlier. I think the production of morphine goes down and time goes on.

hey delo, I have another idea for a piss test comparison....
take a plant material that is known to contain reticuline, or salutaridine. they are both precursors of morphine that are used by both plants and mammals and other life forms in the production of ENDOGENOUS morphine. the biosynthetic pathways to morphine seem to be the same in plant and animal, or at least that data suggests that.
anyway, certian medicinal herbs like peumus boldus, croton (sangre de draco), and sassafras root contain these isoquinoline alkaloids.
perhaps a person with clean pee could test said plant, and then later take a piss test to test for any possible remnants of endogenously produced morphine that is a byproduct of reticuline or salutaridine.
my problem is knowing people that would eat a medicinal herb and take a pee test that ARE NOT opiate dependent.

just a thought.

[Delo]

:D
my problem is knowing people that would eat a medicinal herb and take a pee test that ARE NOT opiate dependent.

just a thought.


I know good guinnea pigs are hard to find...