OINKERS locking up vets [Archive]

Chemical_Boy

01-22-2007, 02:19 PM

DF has made me think of this(indirectly), and I dont really know where to post it, but its something thats been on my mind for a while.
Regardless of your stance on wars like vietnam etc. its really really really fucked up that some power tripping brainwashed oinker gets to lock up people who have been through and suffered through wars for their country for putting a substance in their *own* bodies. I could rant about this all day but yeah its fucked up.

Welcome to the real world.So much bullshit,you need wings to stay above it.

Ain't that the truth. TP, I have had the same thoughts myself about being able to make the choice to risk your life, but not being allowed to make your own choices in other parts of your life.

They say drugs cause crime. That is only because they are illegal. Look at the Prohibition back in the 20s. Crime rose because smuggling increased. When something is illegal, it can't be regulated and shady people get involved. Same thing would happen with drugs. The drug lords in Columbia and Afghanistan owuld go out of business if farmer Joe Smith from Illinois could grow the same plants. There would be no drug smuggling related crime, which is some of the most brutal crime out there, because there would be no need to smuggle. The billions of $$ that Americans spend on drugs could be taxed like liquor, making hundreds of millions of $$ for the fed. It would free up federal resources to look for real crime, I don't know say TERRORISM.
But the people who always know what's best for everyone else are likely to stay that way. Not to mention that most DEA employees would be out of a job and they have their empire to protect. I find it hopeful though that the stigma attached to marijuana seems to be declining. Just look at all of the bills in the past 10 years to decriminalize MJ in different states. I am hoping that with a more liberal Congress in place, maybe we will be able to make some progress.
Plus it is a damn crime that pain patients can't get the medicines that help them without themselves and their doctors being scrutinized as drug users/pushers. It's a damn shame how things are now.

tptptp

01-22-2007, 02:19 PM

Welcome to the real world.So much bullshit,you need wings to stay above it.

Thanks for the welcome:rolleyes: Unfortunately I dont really need one though. I know the world is really really fucked up this is just something thats really been bugging me for a while. I hate the US

tptptp

01-22-2007, 02:22 PM

Ain't that the truth. TP, I have had the same thoughts myself about being able to make the choice to risk your life, but not being allowed to make your own choices in other parts of your life.

They say drugs cause crime. That is only because they are illegal. Look at the Prohibition back in the 20s. Crime rose because smuggling increased. When something is illegal, it can't be regulated and shady people get involved. Same thing would happen with drugs. The drug lords in Columbia and Afghanistan owuld go out of business if farmer Joe Smith from Illinois could grow the same plants. There would be no drug smuggling related crime, which is some of the most brutal crime out there, because there would be no need to smuggle. The billions of $$ that Americans spend on drugs could be taxed like liquor, making hundreds of millions of $$ for the fed. It would free up federal resources to look for real crime, I don't know say TERRORISM.
But the people who always know what's best for everyone else are likely to stay that way. Not to mention that most DEA employees would be out of a job and they have their empire to protect. I find it hopeful though that the stigma attached to marijuana seems to be declining. Just look at all of the bills in the past 10 years to decriminalize MJ in different states. I am hoping that with a more liberal Congress in place, maybe we will be able to make some progress.
Plus it is a damn crime that pain patients can't get the medicines that help them without themselves and their doctors being scrutinized as drug users/pushers. It's a damn shame how things are now.

Yep, yep, its fucked up. Think of how SAFE the US would be if all the anti drug nazis and agents etc. focused all their efforts on real(violent) criminals. Wow this would be such a safe country.
Someone else brought this up in another thread today and its also been something thats on my mind. As long as the country's majority stays christian (which I dont see changing ANY time soon) drugs are not gonna become legal because they are "evil" in the eyes of the religious.

In my book religious people are just scared people whos only way to cope with lifes mortality, evils etc. is to believe that there IS something after this life. Which there may very well be, but trying to guess exactly what it is for sure? Dont kid yourself you religious COOKS =P

nick

01-22-2007, 02:26 PM

I'm an atheist,but there are many christians in the drug policy reform movement.Checkout the DPA website guys.They're the biggest(best funded) anti prohibition group in the US.

tptptp

01-22-2007, 02:28 PM

I'm an atheist,but there are many christians in the drug policy reform movement.Checkout the DPA website guys.They're the biggest(best funded) anti prohibition group in the US.

Thats really surprising if there are christian groups for legalization and refreshing to hear. I'd still think the hardcore christians (mormons and all) are still really against it though?

HeidiW

01-22-2007, 02:30 PM

It's all about money. The dirty, rotten, stinking government makes TOO much money with drugs illegal. They don't give a shit about addicts, homelessness, poverty, things that they'll never have to endure. I could go on for days about how fucked up our government is. But yes, I agree with whoever said that things might be better with the Democrats in control of the House/Senate, whatever.

nick

01-22-2007, 02:35 PM

earthenone

01-22-2007, 02:39 PM

Yeah, when the biggest percentage of voters, have had some trouble with the law, and have had probation, parole etc, then theyll listen to us, and the number keeps growing everyday, one day this whole war on drugs will backfire when 90% of the voters have suffered directly from it.

Chemical_Boy

01-22-2007, 03:14 PM

Yep, yep, its fucked up. Think of how SAFE the US would be if all the anti drug nazis and agents etc. focused all their efforts on real(violent) criminals. Wow this would be such a safe country.
Someone else brought this up in another thread today and its also been something thats on my mind. As long as the country's majority stays christian (which I dont see changing ANY time soon) drugs are not gonna become legal because they are "evil" in the eyes of the religious.

In my book religious people are just scared people whos only way to cope with lifes mortality, evils etc. is to believe that there IS something after this life. Which there may very well be, but trying to guess exactly what it is for sure? Dont kid yourself you religious COOKS =P
I hear you man. Also Nick good point. I think religious people are the same as any other group, most are decent, if somewhat disillusioned, but there's good and bad. I do think that the far right (of any religion) are the scariest. It seems to me that they are far more likely than your average Joe to try to decide what is best for everybody. While I have no problems with Christianity in general, it seems to me in this country that there is a lot of "Christian Legislation" going on. On the one hand, if you believe something is wrong, it is only natural to outlaw it. That is how laws and society work. But if the only reason that you think it is wrong is because your religion says so, than I don't think that there is any reason to legislate those beliefs. That is between the person violating the law and god or what ever. But I do think that in this country there is a lot of far-right, Christian do-gooders who like to decide what is wrong and right for everybody (i.e., groups like Focus on the Family). That's also not to say that all Christians are like that.

It's all about money. The dirty, rotten, stinking government makes TOO much money with drugs illegal. They don't give a shit about addicts, homelessness, poverty, things that they'll never have to endure. I could go on for days about how fucked up our government is. But yes, I agree with whoever said that things might be better with the Democrats in control of the House/Senate, whatever.
I hear you Heidi. . .I could go on for ever too. I am hoping that having more liberal law makers will help, but I am not holding my breath. I am no big fan of either party these days, but the Neocons are definitely down right scary. At least I can agree in principle with the Democratic views on things like stem cell research, abortion, prescription drug issues, etc. I think it is great that they would like to make it easier for people to get Canadian/ Mexican meds. The fucking drug companies are thieves !!. They piss me off so bad. It is scary that they have approximately 2 lobbyists on Capitol Hill for every lawmaker. No wonder they can get away with highway robbery.
Once again, I am not a huge fan of either party, but the current GOP is suck a corrupt, elitist, hypocritical organization that I hope they fall of the fucking world. I hope that 2008 produces a decent democratic nominee for president and that they win (or better yet, an independent with good views- I know that is not very likely though) and can hold on to, and even improve the ratio, in the Senate and House.

Ragdoll

01-22-2007, 03:30 PM

F*A*S*C*I*S*M

tptptp

01-22-2007, 03:51 PM

[quote=Chemical_Boy;81742]I hear you man. Also Nick good point. I think religious people are the same as any other group, most are decent, if somewhat disillusioned, but there's good and bad. I do think that the far right (of any religion) are the scariest. It seems to me that they are far more likely than your average Joe to try to decide what is best for everybody. While I have no problems with Christianity in general, it seems to me in this country that there is a lot of "Christian Legislation" going on. On the one hand, if you believe something is wrong, it is only natural to outlaw it. That is how laws and society work. But if the only reason that you think it is wrong is because your religion says so, than I don't think that there is any reason to legislate those beliefs. That is between the person violating the law and god or what ever. But I do think that in this country there is a lot of far-right, Christian do-gooders who like to decide what is wrong and right for everybody (i.e., groups like Focus on the Family). That's also not to say that all Christians are like that.

Yeah, let it be known I have nothing against ANY non-evil belief system. BUT I do have problems with people pushing their views on others (which is HUGE in christianity). And I have problems with nonsense like "the bible says this or that so we need to base our laws on it"

Times change. I think religion has alot of positive aspects. I believe in social engineering though and I think if it ever fails the world will end. Not because people "gave up" on god or whatever but because theres nothing keeping people in check and humans are animals afterall to be brief. Societal restraints and fear of punishment in the next life hold alot of people back.

nick

01-22-2007, 03:56 PM

It's organized religion that's the problem.I'd be very suprised if there were any evangelical christians on this site-thank Satan.

SuperJunky

01-22-2007, 04:41 PM

. It would free up federal resources to look for real crime, I don't know say TERRORISM.

Dont you know thats what there already doing? Any one that buys illegal drugs is a terrorist because there giving money to gangs and the taliban. The War on Drugs is ESSENTAIL to the war on terror. I mean come on, how can we declare victory in the war on terror as long as some where in the world some one is sitting in there room nodding out? They're obviously dangerouse and are lickly to put babys in microwaves and take to the streets shooting the elderly, young children and woman. Every one knows that junkies are 1000000% more likly to commit rape and molest children and are usually homosexuals. When you inject heroin you loose complete control of your actions, start halucinating and become very very violent. Who told you that you could think these things anyway? The government obviously knows best and none of us could ever comprehend political and social issues as well as these experts do. You should be ashamed of your self for even thinking that the goverment is doing something wrong, not much less puting it on the internet where some child could read it. You should go to church right now and confess your sins. I'm calling the DEA and reporting all you bastards, this sight is illegal and is spreading disinformation. Drugs can never be used in a safe matter and any one that says different must be breaking the law. YOUR ALL GOING TO BURN IN HELL FOR ALL OF ETERNITY! Why cant you be grateful for the freedom our government gives us by not doing anything illegal? And why do you care if they listen in on your phone calls or put a audio/video GPS monitoring device in you if your not doing anything wrong?

And while I think it is obviouse, this is a joke and is pretty much the exact opposite of what I believe. On another note I think all americans should have the right to put what ever they want into there bodies, and while it seems extra hainus to arrest those who have risked thier lives for this country and goverment, it should be a right every one has, world wide regaurdless of anything else.

One more thing, dosnt it just piss you off to no end when people say that MJ should be made illegal so the police can concentrate on arresting heroin and cocain addicts? My DOC is ok and yours isnt.

wafflehead77

01-22-2007, 04:47 PM

Heidi's right it all comes down to $$$$ and votes,but in time things will change.I give a lecture to docs,cops and other "interested" parties on the stupidity of prohibition(I'm the token ex addict) and they all nod politely and ignore everything I say.Bastards.

Tptptp and Chem Boy,Checkout the DPA.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/about/ (http://www.drugpoilcy.org/abouhttp://www.drugpolicy.org/about/t/)

I don't trust the DPA and they don't talk for me,but they are the biggest anti prohibition group in the US.

How much of that money is actually used for purposes other than fighting to reove these substances from the streets.
They may see millions upon millions of dollars from fines, seizures, etc, but the money is thrown right back into the "fight". If it was truley a profit based war, I believe drugs would be legalized, as they could then be taxed. They would lose the seizure/fine funds, but they wouldnt be funneling billions back into the endless cycle.

tptptp

01-22-2007, 04:57 PM

How much of that money is actually used for purposes other than fighting to reove these substances from the streets.
They may see millions upon millions of dollars from fines, seizures, etc, but the money is thrown right back into the "fight". If it was truley a profit based war, I believe drugs would be legalized, as they could then be taxed. They would lose the seizure/fine funds, but they wouldnt be funneling billions back into the endless cycle.

I truly believe the CIA and such have got to be turning around and re-selling drugs to the mob and what not. I mean billions upon billions of dollars of drugs what are they gonna do w/em? I've ehard some theories like some crazy shit that they use the stuff to burn for energy or some stupid shit, I dont buy it.
The US leaders might be a bunch of dumb hypocrites but even they arent dumb enough to throw billions of seized drugs into the trash.....money always talks

Sumocat

01-22-2007, 05:34 PM

nick

01-22-2007, 05:42 PM

How much of that money is actually used for purposes other than fighting to reove these substances from the streets.
They may see millions upon millions of dollars from fines, seizures, etc, but the money is thrown right back into the "fight". If it was truley a profit based war, I believe drugs would be legalized, as they could then be taxed. They would lose the seizure/fine funds, but they wouldnt be funneling billions back into the endless cycle.

If you think of prisons as a business,then yes.There is still money in prohibition.We are coming close to the tipping point and as I keep saying,If we fix safe and eat right we will live to see the end of prohibition.

blackdog

01-22-2007, 06:37 PM

F*A*S*C*I*S*M
IS THAT THE THE OPPOSITE OF S*L*O*I*S*M ????:p :p :p :p

wafflehead77

01-22-2007, 06:40 PM

I second Heidi on the money issue. That's a huge part of it. If memory serves, wasn't it Seagram's Gin that got the first marijuana prohibition laws on the books? Just imagine if people had a choice over alcohol.

And not to get all conspiratorial, but..ok..conspriatorially, I also believe there's a mind control aspect going on. Granted, not all illicit substances out there have visionary effects, but many of them do. And not all of them help people to function better, but, again, many of them do.

If it were all legal and accessible, I think we'd see usage level out to about the same as for other 'drugs'. We'd also probably see an equal or lesser rate of accidents, deaths, etc...definitely no more than already occurs with alcohol.

As to the original post, yeah, it is f'ed up. Honestly, I'd say being a veteran ought to get one automatic, free medical care. Its the least we can do.

This I do agree with. Vested interests of the major political lobbyists definately is a major, if not the largest factor in keeping drugs criminal. I guess you could still consider this a money issue, as the bottom-line comes down to cold hard cash for the gov't, and organizations lobbying to keep drugs illegal.
I was looking at the money issue very narrowly, as the illegality of drugs directly equaling cash. But, in the end, it doesnt matter which facet of the side of prohibition, money is still the bottom line.

Frozen

01-22-2007, 07:06 PM

For those of you who have read 1984, recall that money was not an important factor behind Big Brother's oppression.
No, not money, but something else entirely...

____________
From 1984:

'You understand well enough ~how~ the party maintains
itself in power. Now tell me ~why~ we cling to power. What
is our motive? Why should we want power? Go on, speak,' he
added as Winston remained silent.
[...]
Nevertheless Winston did not speak for another moment or
two.
[...]
'You are ruling over us for our own good,' he said
feebly. 'You believe that human beings are not fit to govern
themselves, and therefore -

He started and almost cried out. A pang of pain had shot
through his body. O'Brien had pushed the lever of the dial
up to thirty-five.

'That was stupid, Winston, stupid!' he said. 'You should
know better than to say a thing like that.'

He pulled the lever back and continued:

'Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is
this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We
are not interested in the good of others; we are interested
solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or
happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you
will understand presently. We are different from the
oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing.
All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were
cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian
Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they
never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They
pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized
power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just
round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings
would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that
no one seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.
Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a
dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes
the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The
object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture
is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin
to understand me?'

______________

Did you notice how the 'War on Drugs' began, just as racial discrimination was quickly falling out of fashion in the U.S.? Shortly after the last racial segregationists gave up their fight in the late 60's, Nixon's modern-day "War on Drugs" began in 1971. He characterized prohibition violators as "America's public enemy number one." No longer allowed to oppress American citizens based on skin color, they switched the focus of their aggressive sadism to us. In other words, prohibited drug users are the new n*ggers. That's not a word I ever use, but you all know it's true.

The goal of racial segregation wasn't integration and equality. The object of racial segregation was racial segregation. The object of persecution of drug users is persecution of drug users. Now do you begin to understand me?

PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO

01-22-2007, 08:53 PM

Yep, yep, its fucked up. Think of how SAFE the US would be if all the anti drug nazis and agents etc. focused all their efforts on real(violent) criminals. Wow this would be such a safe country.
Someone else brought this up in another thread today and its also been something thats on my mind. As long as the country's majority stays christian (which I dont see changing ANY time soon) drugs are not gonna become legal because they are "evil" in the eyes of the religious.

In my book religious people are just scared people whos only way to cope with lifes mortality, evils etc. is to believe that there IS something after this life. Which there may very well be, but trying to guess exactly what it is for sure? Dont kid yourself you religious COOKS =P

I'm an atheist,but there are many christians in the drug policy reform movement.Checkout the DPA website guys.They're the biggest(best funded) anti prohibition group in the US.

ITS NOT THE CHRISTIANS. Well i shouldnt say it like that.........we cant blame an entire religious group for anything.....moslems, christians or whatever.
Its the Government....Nicks right about that though.....it even goes beyond that.
I am Catholic. And i am very familiar with canonical law and the opinions of the Pope on these problems. The CAtholic church looks at it for waht it is, addicition i mean........its a disease.

There are SO MANY TIHNGS that OUr Government do that are unCHristian its ridiculous......For example The War on IRAQ, Deathpenalty, Abortion and Drugs........all of these things the US government does contrary to what Catholicism teaches.......Catholicism being the largest unified Christian religion.....The government doesnt give a shit what the Christian religion has to say...............

If it was a Christian Country a real christian country wed be much better off.

Maybe the country tries to act christian but they fail.........and they fail miserably.

On a Very personal note when i tell my priest about my addictions I am NEVER chastised.....NEVER on the contrary i was chosen by the church to do an important task...(trying not to get to involved personally here....but the Church really does care for the Sick......whether they are sick from Aids, Drug addiction or cancer.......

Its all about Compasion................compasion that are Gov is lacking.
Just look at the thread i made the other day about how the DEA are cracking down on Docs making them scared to prescribe to patients for fear of DEA retaliation.

As always i respect all our opinions.
peace

CUBErt

01-22-2007, 10:52 PM

kyuss

01-22-2007, 10:59 PM

Things might be better for a while. But Democrats are human beings too, and would inevitably fuck things uo

At least
it's the lesser
of two evils

tptptp

01-22-2007, 11:03 PM

ITS NOT THE CHRISTIANS. Well i shouldnt say it like that.........we cant blame an entire religious group for anything.....moslems, christians or whatever.
Its the Government....Nicks right about that though.....it even goes beyond that.
I am Catholic. And i am very familiar with canonical law and the opinions of the Pope on these problems. The CAtholic church looks at it for waht it is, addicition i mean........its a disease.

There are SO MANY TIHNGS that OUr Government do that are unCHristian its ridiculous......For example The War on IRAQ, Deathpenalty, Abortion and Drugs........all of these things the US government does contrary to what Catholicism teaches.......Catholicism being the largest unified Christian religion.....The government doesnt give a shit what the Christian religion has to say...............

If it was a Christian Country a real christian country wed be much better off.

Maybe the country tries to act christian but they fail.........and they fail miserably.

On a Very personal note when i tell my priest about my addictions I am NEVER chastised.....NEVER on the contrary i was chosen by the church to do an important task...(trying not to get to involved personally here....but the Church really does care for the Sick......whether they are sick from Aids, Drug addiction or cancer.......

Its all about Compasion................compasion that are Gov is lacking.
Just look at the thread i made the other day about how the DEA are cracking down on Docs making them scared to prescribe to patients for fear of DEA retaliation.

As always i respect all our opinions.
peace

I never once said the christians were the CAUSE of the war on drugs I just said that overall they are a huge obstacle in ENDING the war on drugs, because drugs are "evil" Adam and eve yadda yadda bullshit George Bush is a huge (even if pretend) Christian....I'm not trying to sound like an ass here but dont spin this on me, I definitely am not gonna argue religion, it's just not worth it.....Agree or disagree thats my viewpoint and I doubt im alone on it. Any candidate that says he wants to legalize drugs in a christian country isnt gonna get in...thats all im trying to say, I'm not saying christians are bad or anything else, I think its great to have high morals etc. But I'm not touching on this subject - at all.

HeidiW

01-22-2007, 11:55 PM

Yes, G-Dubya, our alcoholic, cocaine-snortin' CHRISTIAN commander in chief. Yuck. He makes me sick. He don't give a shit about the freedom of the shiites/Iraqiis/etc. It's OIL PROFITS that put 'em in Iraq. I'm not trying to sound radical, but the legitimate comparisons between the Reichstag Fire in Germany and 9-11 are disquieting, to say in the VERY least. But, they're not stupid. They couldn't be pulling the shit they do and be morons.
All I can say is this: our day of reckoning is COMING SOON here in the U.S. Those of us that give a fuck about our families and well-being best read up on survival, stock up on basic food and living supplies, learn to use firearms, etc. You get the idea. Be prepared for ANYTHING. Who knows what our DEAR GOVERNMENT has planned for us. Quite possibly what Hitler did to the Jews. With GWB, Cheney, and all those crooks in D.C, NOTHING would surprise me.

chasetherush

01-24-2007, 08:52 PM

It's organized religion that's the problem.I'd be very surprised if there were any evangelical Christians on this site-thank Satan.easy bro...i'm a Christian, and i think that the problem doesn't lie in organized religion. true, most Christians, especially conservative Christians, are all for drugs remaining illegal. not me. i'm not for EVERYTHING being legal and unregulated, but there's got to be a balance somewhere between that and the other extreme policy on drugs that the US currently has. i do realize that i am a minority when it comes to taking this stance, but many of my friends feel the same way. you'd be surprised... there are more Christians that are anti-prohibition on drugs than you might think. i think as time moves on, there will be more of us.

ps- i'm not here to force Christianity down your throat. I can't stand Christians who do that when they find out someone is an atheist. obviously we have completely different views on whether or not God exists. but that's no reason to shun someone or treat them any differently. Christians who do that are the kind of people who give Christianity a bad name. anyway, i'm ranting now. bottom line, drugs shouldn't be demonized, at least not all of them.

tptptp

01-24-2007, 09:29 PM

easy bro...i'm a Christian, and i think that the problem doesn't lie in organized religion. true, most Christians, especially conservative Christians, are all for drugs remaining illegal. not me. i'm not for EVERYTHING being legal and unregulated, but there's got to be a balance somewhere between that and the other extreme policy on drugs that the US currently has. i do realize that i am a minority when it comes to taking this stance, but many of my friends feel the same way. you'd be surprised... there are more Christians that are anti-prohibition on drugs than you might think. i think as time moves on, there will be more of us.

ps- i'm not here to force Christianity down your throat. I can't stand Christians who do that when they find out someone is an atheist. obviously we have completely different views on whether or not God exists. but that's no reason to shun someone or treat them any differently. Christians who do that are the kind of people who give Christianity a bad name. anyway, i'm ranting now. bottom line, drugs shouldn't be demonized, at least not all of them.

Good post, especially the second paragraph. You're right the people pushing their views are the ones giving it a bad name.

Its my belief that religion is more of a Teaching system than a belief system, just like political viewpoints but even more so.

If you grow up in a religious family, it seems as though you are just about certain to "believe" that religion.....but it cant really be a belief if thats the way you were brought up and TAUGHT to believe.....
But I have no problem with religion as long as they leave me alone, dont send me BS mail or call my house.
Unfortunately they do it all, and it just aggrivates me, certainly doesnt help them prove their point.
I DONT believe it, you cant convince me to have a belief, if you do then its NOT a belief....

chasetherush

01-24-2007, 09:56 PM

Good post, especially the second paragraph. You're right the people pushing their views are the ones giving it a bad name.

Its my belief that religion is more of a Teaching system than a belief system, just like political viewpoints but even more so.

If you grow up in a religious family, it seems as though you are just about certain to "believe" that religion.....but it cant really be a belief if thats the way you were brought up and TAUGHT to believe.....
But I have no problem with religion as long as they leave me alone, dont send me BS mail or call my house.
Unfortunately they do it all, and it just aggravates me, certainly doesnt help them prove their point.
I DONT believe it, you cant convince me to have a belief, if you do then its NOT a belief....you're exactly right. you can't argue Christianity, or any other religion for that matter, into anyone. it's a personal choice. you can answer questions they have, invite them to church, that kind of thing, but it's pointless and flat out wrong to force your views on people. IF they are open to religion, they'll let you know. i don't like it when Mormons come to my house to tell me i'm wrong, and i would never dream of rolling up on someone, uninvited, and proceeding to tell them that they are wrong. it's messed up, and you (or anyone else) will never get any flak from me because of your religious beliefs.