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Dexter the Meth Orphan
01-18-2007, 01:48 PM
ADDICTION.
Experienced DXM users describe a rapidly developing and persistent tolerance to the drug.6 Dependence is rarely described.24-26
Quote:
Although DXM is not thought to have addictive properties, susceptible individuals may develop craving and habitual use of the drug.5,27 An abstinence syndrome may be associated with cessation of DXM abuse that is characterized by dysphoria and intense cravings.24,26,28,29
Quote:
The dissociatives can be highly addictive to a minority of users. In comparison, the marijuana and the serotonergic psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote, DMT) are many times safer.
By literature reported in 1994, there were only 2 reported fatalities from DXM overdoses. At this time, the Medical Community was almost completely OBLIVIOUS to the underground abuse of DXM.

Even though there were 2 KNOWN CASES of Death from DXM, there were NO reports and NO RESEARCH describing the effects of chronic abuse. The first report of long-term usage was described in 1994. It demonstrated significant cognitive deterioration that was associated with prolonged use of DM.

Since 1994, other effects have been described, and most are likely linked to DXM abuse. Toxic psychosis and cognitive deteriorationcan arise from chronic use of the drug.24,28,29

TRANSLATION:
Long Term Use Could Very Likely Cause:
1. Toxic Psychosis: this would be akin to "Tripping All the Time." Paranoia, Fear, Helplessness, Detachment, Dissociation, etc. It is known that psychotic breaks are more common in the upper two plateaus (3&4). (*reference*)

2. Cognitive Degeneration: Put simply, this is when someone becomes "dumb." There are indications from patient cases of declining intelligence, with repeated, toxic exposure to dissociatives such as DXM, PCP, & K. Since this effect is difficult to directly measure, the effects have been demonstrated through indirect measurement and observation. I have a few reports with detailed methodology with possible logical flaws if anyone is interested. One would be foolish not to heed this warning, because no one knows for certain if a 'small' case of psychosis or cognitive decline will be able to 'recover.' In cases of high-dose, repeated assault, damage to cognition appears permanent.

3. Liver Failure--to some degree. Liver disease is not always cut-and-dry, nor is it always characterized by a single, definitive STRIKE to the liver, (followed by hepatic shut-down and death). Instead, & more frequently, liver failure is a progressive disease that begins with a series of permanent toxic events... and it is often slow and insidious in progression.

4. Kidney Failure--again, like the liver, the kidneys will sustain a heavy amount of abuse (including interruption of blood-supply for several minutes) before they begin to lose their normal functioning ability. Essentially, what we're creating--with chronic recreational DXM--are significantly WEAKENED hepatic and renal systems.

Perhaps this can be thought of in terms of 'aging.'
Take for example, a 21 year-old Chronic, High-Dose DXM User. This individual's kidneys and liver could very likely be compared to those of someone MUCH OLDER than those of your peers. (e.g. a 50 year-old's liver &/or kidneys).

This analogy comes from deductive reasoning, based SOLEY on the nature of the drug's pharmacological profile at so-called 'recreational' doses. I do not have actual proof that a 21 year-old has a 50 year-old man's kidneys &/or liver, but one does not necessarily need proof to support a claim that hepatotoxic substances cause aging of the liver; nor that kidney-toxins will induce renal changes.These are typical sequelae of people who suffer the type of insults which occur in the setting of recreational-dose DXM. Cause and Effect Pattern. Just like breathing in flu-virus vapors will OFTEN lead to you catching the flu... or like when you inject your muscle with sulfuric acid, it will hurt like shit.

Long Term Use May Also Cause:
5. True Liver Failure--without a transplant, you will die from this. Remember: slow, agonizing death. Usually takes 2-3 days to die, sometimes weeks.

6. Complete Kidney Failure--these people have arterio-venous shunts surgically placed under the skin, connecting artery-to-vein. They must be dialyzed twice a week. They do not make urine. They will die without constant dialysis or a kidney transplant.

7. Pancreatic Failure--a distant possibility. would be horrible. very painful. causes Type I Diabetes (no more insulin production). Permanent loss of control over blood sugar levels. these people have no more insulin to lower blood sugar, no more glucagon to raise blood sugar.

8. ?Permanent Brain Damage?--Olsney's Lesions? maybe this should be #1 on the list?? who knows...? scientists certainly do not know. Sure, Dr. Olsney's claim from his original research does NOT support the existence of Olsney's Lesions in humans, (and thus, it cannot attribute them to DXM, ketamine, PCP, dogshit or anything else--since we don't know if they exist).

HOWEVER, just because his deductive methodology was flawed certainly does NOT suggest that these lesions do NOT exist! That's like saying that when your local grocery store doesn't have any strawberries in stock for 3 months straight, that there ISN'T a shortage in the local strawberry supply, just because you don't have any proof that there IS a shortage! It's impossible to prove a negative statement without proper investigation, and this is a serious fallacy in logic that I believe the internet has helped propagate. This is a new sort of "group-think."

In other words: Let's say that I have a belief that is totally WRONG. Like, for example, I believe that it's OK, and even 'good for my health' to drink a little shot of gasoline every single day. Now, with the internet, I can find other 'gasoline-drinkers.' (not really! http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif) Just because I can now assemble a group of 14 people, 400 people, or 2,000 people all together from all over the world, into a chat-room, who all agree with me on something that is simply WRONG or UNFOUNDED, that does NOT mean that I am now CORRECT. I'm still WRONG just like the other 19,999 people in the chat-room.



DXM OVERDOSES AND DEATH.

There have been several DXM overdose deaths documented in medical and media reports. Even taken by itself, DXM overdoses have been FATAL. Lethal toxicity starts at around 20mg/kg (about 2,000mg for a 220lb person).

Redosing.
Overdose is possible while redosing; occasionally, an overdose has come from a person who is already under the influence of DXM after attempting to "re-dose." Why does this cause overdose? Several possible reasons, but the main cause is because of a cumulative effect on dosing, starting from the original dose. Also, it has been speculated that the user may not be able to accurately weigh the next dose, or may forget how much s/he has already taken.

It is suggested that those who plan to redose with pure DXM weigh all doses in advance, then set their supply in a place where it is inconvenient to reach.

Methods of DXM Administration.
Oral: Best, and essentially, the only method of taking.
Injection: almost impossible; doesn't dissolve except in enormous quantities of water & hazardous
*Smoking: DXM is toxic to smoke. DXM HBr releases ammonia and other toxins and should never be smoked.


OLNEY'S LESIONS, NAN, and HOLES IN YOUR BRAIN.
William White claimed high doses of DXM may cause brain damage in the form of NMDA antagonist neurotoxicity. Olneys lesions, also known as "NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity" or "NAN", are a form of brain damage caused by high doses of NMDA antagonists...


Quote:
Olney's Lesions (holes in the brain) have been observed in lab mice by giving them lethal doses of DXM. Olney's Lesions have not been observed in primates, or in sub-anaesthetic doses even in mice.
Quote:
John Olney demonstrated that high doses of NMDA antagonist (like DXM), caused brain cell DEATH in animal studies. These characteristic brain lesions are thus named Olney's lesions. The doses required to INSTANTLY produce damage are far in excess of human recreational doses, but there have NOT been studies on long-term, lower-dose use.
ARGUMENT AGAINST OLNEY'S LESIONS.
White's article has been challenged by Cliff Anderson in his paper The Bad News Isn't In. White has later retracted his original claims in a response to Cliff Anderson's paper though he still warns of possible long term damage from DXM.

--There is much information left to post in this area---


ANTIDEPRESSANTS... SEROTONIN SYNDROME and DEATH!

Before any use of DXM, extra caution should be taken by those taking either prescribed prescription or OTC medications, particularly antidepressants. Why?
1. Serotonin Syndrome. With antidepressants there is risk of developing serotonin syndrome (Serotonin syndrome is a condition caused by an excess of serotonin in the brain. A rare, but serious, potentially life-threatening medical condition. Symptoms may be classed into three groups:
a. cognitive effects: mental confusion, hypomania, agitation, headache, coma
b. autonomic effects: shivering, sweating, fever, hypertension, tachycardia, nausea, diarrhea
c. somatic effects: myoclonus/clonus (muscle twitching), hyperreflexia, tremor

2. Liver Enzyme Inhibition. MANY meds are substrates or Inhibitors of the SAME liver enzyme used to clean out toxic DXM.

Quote:
Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are one such drug that inhibits the P450-2D6 enzyme responsible for breaking DXM down into DXO (Otton & Wu, 1993), This has the effect of minimizing hallucinations but maximizing confusion and can cause the trip to literally last for days.

A first or second plateau trip is probably nothing to worry about, though you may not enjoy all the effects your non-medicated friends might.
Quote:
DXM should not in any case be used by people who are taking a Monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI: Any of a group of antidepressant drugs that inhibit the action of monoamine oxidase in the brain and so allow monoamines to accumulate). MAOI's should be avoided whether they occur in prescription medication or from natural sources, such as harmala. This may cause serotonin syndrome, and has been fatal (Bem & Peck, 1992).

Harmala, also known as telepathine and banisterine, a blanket term for a group of is a blanket term for a group of naturally occurring beta-carbolines including harmine, and others. The harmala alkaloids are tryptamines and monoamine oxidase inhibitors found in Syrian rue seeds and Banisteriopsis caapi.They also act as serotonin antagonists and CNS stimulants. In Caapi, it is used in combination with DMT to form Ayahuasca.
Harmala alkaloids are also found many other plants, including tobacco and passion flower.




DXM TOXICITY FROM OTHER INGREDIENTS!!!

Toxicity, in the setting of DXM abuse, can arise from additional sources. Over-the-counter cough formulations frequently contain, in addition to DXM, other pharmaceutical agents such as chlorpheniramine, acetaminophen, or pseudoephedrine.30


Quote:
Drug interactions exist between DXM and other substances, the best characterized of which is serotonin syndrome. This condition typically occurs from the interaction between DXM and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or monoamine oxidase inhibitors, but concurrent administration of antibiotics (eg, linezolide), opiate analgesics (eg, meperidine and tramadol), or drugs of abuse (eg, Syrian rue) could precipitate the condition.32 Patients with serotonin syndrome may demonstrate the clinical triad of mental status changes, autonomic instability, and muscular hypertonicity.33
TYLENOL and a SLOW DEATH from LIVER FAILURE.
Most over-the-counter cough medicines contain other drugs besides DXM and can be quite dangerous when taken in high doses. These ingredients include acetaminophen (aka: Tylenol, Panadol, Phenaphen, Tempra and paracetamol or APAP) which carries a high possibility of fatal liver damage with as few as EIGHT! pills.

Overdose of acetaminophen, an antipyretic and analgesic that is a component of over 100 cough and cold preparations, produces delayed hepatic injury and, potentially, death.

PLEASE, READ THIS! Acetaminophen: There are 3 enzymatic pathways used in the liver to break Acetaminophen down, and the 2 typically found are safe for the body. When these two become overwhelmed, the third pathway processes acetaminophen into a chemical that is EXTREMELY TOXIC TO THE LIVER.

Fatal liver damage can occur before any symptoms become evident. THIS DEATH is a PAINFUL, LINGERING DEATH, taking place over 2-3 days, and sometimes WEEKS.

Quote:
Also, a user who is in a hangover from significant quantities of DXM may NOT EVEN NOTICE that anything is wrong even once symptoms begin to occur. To put it simply, acetaminophen-containing preparations are NOT safe for recreational use! In high recreational quantities DEATH is the MOST PROBABLE OUTCOME!! Liver toxicity can occur at doses as low as 8-10 pills, at the bottom of the 1st plateau. Acetaminophen overdoses can be corrected IF you go to an ER within the the first hours. After that, toxic effects become apparent and PERMANENT!

"CCC" and LIVER FAILURE, SLOW DEATH, and SEVERE ALLERGIC REACTIONS.

Chlorpheniramine is an H1-receptor antagonist. Consequently, individuals who have abused chlorpheniramine-containing DXM formulations may also exhibit anticholinergic signs and symptoms (eg, tachycardia, warm, dry, flushed skin, dry mucosa, mydriasis, agitated delirium, urinary retention, and gastrointestinal dysmotility).

Severe chlorpheniramine intoxication has also been associated with seizure activity, rhabdomyolysis, and hyperthermia.8 BTW, all these 3 syndromes are associated with brain damage of on their own account.

ALSO: Chlorphenamine, an anticholinergic and antihistamine, is broken down by the SAME liver enzyme that decomposes DXM. This combo is VERY DANGEROUS, especially to those individuals with a CYP2D6 enzyme deficiency. Also CCC can cause SEVERE allergic reactions! CCC or Coricidin should NOT be used recreationally. CCC has caused many DOZENS of hospitalizations, several DEATHS (that we KNOW about!) and the general advice is do NOT take it!

GUAFENESIN and PUKING YOUR BRAINS OUT.
Guaifenesin, Guafenesin, or Guaiphenesin is an expectorant (mucous softener) which contributes to the nausea and vomiting that MANY people experience when taking this drug.

PSEUDOPHED and STROKES, HEART ATTACKS, BLINDNESS, DEATH.
pseudoephedrine is a stimulant related to ephedrine used as a bronchodilator to treat bronchitis and asthma. Taken WITH DXM, Pseudoephedrine can raise your blood pressure through the ROOF! This can cause GLAUCOMA--damaging the optic disc and impairing vision, and sometimes progressing to BLINDNESS!

Quote:
Pseudoephedrine intoxication may mimic that of chlorpheniramine except that patients may exhibit diaphoresis.
DXM with pseudofed can also cause HYPERTENSIVE CRISIS, HEART ATTACKS, STROKES, and... DEATH!



FINAL ADVICE--WORD TO THE WISE.
Don't take DXM for fun.
Never exceed more than 1500mg of DXM, ever.
If you have never taken DXM before, *always* start with a low dose, because you may be unknowingly CYP-2D6 deficient, or have some other negative reaction.
It's wise to have a sober trip-sitter with you, especially for first DXM experience.
Do not use frequently (more than once or twice a month.)

Quote:
If you will not abstain from using dissociatives, there are several steps you can take to protect your brain, ranging from limiting frequency and dosage to taking nutrients and neuroprotective drugs. You can also use alternative methods (ranging from safer drugs to meditation) to reach the same places that dissociatives take you. -White
I don't recommend using DXM recreationally at all.
It is my firm belief that Death is a shitty side effect.
-Dick




SORRY FOR THE SPLIT UP. The text was far too long to fit into one post.

kidding
01-25-2007, 11:57 PM
OH NO!!!!!

Hammilton
01-26-2007, 12:40 PM
why's this the most uninformed post? Not much I disagree with

Dexter the Meth Orphan
01-26-2007, 02:17 PM
Because it bags on DXM with petty cause. And gives very little reference

kidding
01-31-2007, 12:00 AM
"1. Toxic Psychosis: this would be akin to "Tripping All the Time." Paranoia, Fear, Helplessness, Detachment, Dissociation, etc. It is known that psychotic breaks are more common in the upper two plateaus (3&4). (*reference*)"


*reference*... that sounds like a reference to me!

robojunkie
01-31-2007, 05:43 AM
Dex,

Yeah I agree that most of that is exaggerated bullshit but as someone who used to go on months long robo binges I can attest to the seemingly permanent dumbening of it. Not sure of how this happens but for at least 6 months I wouldn't be able to speak out thoughts right, slur words, be unreactive to shit and totally depressed and unmotivated. But unlike that Olney's lesions bullshit extrapolated research (Fry rat brains with super doses, therefore all people doing this get holes in the head) it does seem to have intermediate term effects on the brain when done excessively for a long time. But it does resolve itself somehow so it can't be true cell death and such as I understand it. Ever have that experience of, to use White's terminology, "going sigma" for months, stopping, and just feeling like you had a lobotomy for six months or so?

SuperJunky
01-31-2007, 05:49 AM
I've had a lot of drug experiences, everything from weed to robo to e and H leave me, the next day or upon sobering up, w/ this god awful feeling that I killed some brain cells and will probably never fully recover. I always seem to, but I'm not so sure I really did or if I just got used to this new lower level of intelligence memory etc and learned to work around the physical problems like slurred speech etc. I don't think this is really true but I think its a possibility.

robojunkie
01-31-2007, 06:00 AM
My best hypothesis for my experience and thing like you are saying SJ is that maybe neural connections get fried from certain things like long term robo, heavy acohol use, etc. but these are repairable. So it is quite possible that you do just learn to adapt as learning in general is building new neural connections. Whereas actual cell death for an adult is pretty much permanent, with a few rare exceptions (or some some good cloned stem cells from my own DNA). Like super heavy long term alcohol use, that actually kills cells and isn't reversible. I do know though that I can qualitatively (and quantitatively, for that matter) say that I am not any less intelligent now that I was as a pre-doped teenager (obviously more educated with time, but more referring to the basic capacity learning, understanding, logic, etc).

HistoryofMadness
01-31-2007, 08:10 AM
Because it bags on DXM with petty cause. And gives very little reference

you talk a lot about DXM and I don't see a whole lot of reference except the DXM FAQ. You heralded it as truth based on someone's extensive experience. This appears to be someone's bad experience.

and as for psychotic breaks, all hallucinogens / dissociatives can lead to breaks.

maybe some people are on a crusade to talk about the bad shit as much as you are to talk about the good?

just out of curiousity dexter how long have you been using dxm?

OxyContinuously
01-31-2007, 08:45 AM
the exact same faq/info/whatever can be found at erowid. they have a dxm faq


oxy

Dexter the Meth Orphan
01-31-2007, 12:10 PM
you talk a lot about DXM and I don't see a whole lot of reference except the DXM FAQ. You heralded it as truth based on someone's extensive experience. This appears to be someone's bad experience.

and as for psychotic breaks, all hallucinogens / dissociatives can lead to breaks.

maybe some people are on a crusade to talk about the bad shit as much as you are to talk about the good?

just out of curiousity dexter how long have you been using dxm?

Based on Williams work, I have saved myself a lot of headache, no matter how unprofessional you consider his words to be. I would say that I have been dosing for over a decade now, with no lasting effects that I can tell. I test my self intellectually every day, and exercise my motor functions quite randomly and frequently. I have yet to have any slow down.

HistoryofMadness
01-31-2007, 12:48 PM
Based on Williams work, I have saved myself a lot of headache, no matter how unprofessional you consider his words to be. I would say that I have been dosing for over a decade now, with no lasting effects that I can tell. I test my self intellectually every day, and exercise my motor functions quite randomly and frequently. I have yet to have any slow down.

i didn't comment on the quality of his work, i just made the comparison of your respect for his writing, because you agree with him, and your lack of respect for the writer of what you posted.

both appear to be low on references and high on personal experience.

so how long you say you've been robotripping? i'm not trying to insult you, i'm really curious.

Dexter the Meth Orphan
01-31-2007, 02:08 PM
i didn't comment on the quality of his work, i just made the comparison of your respect for his writing, because you agree with him, and your lack of respect for the writer of what you posted.

both appear to be low on references and high on personal experience.

so how long you say you've been robotripping? i'm not trying to insult you, i'm really curious.

About 10 years

Hammilton
01-31-2007, 07:48 PM
Funny you bash the lack of references here but you don't mind the uncited FAQ you quote as fact? "most causes of ODs caused redosing too soon"

funny since no studies or death statistics indicate or agree

Dexter the Meth Orphan
01-31-2007, 09:08 PM
Funny you bash the lack of references here but you don't mind the uncited FAQ you quote as fact? "most causes of ODs caused redosing too soon"

funny since no studies or death statistics indicate or agree

The college students in Illinois died from powder DXM. I will look up the refs when I wake up in the AM.

jacky
02-01-2007, 11:26 AM
I started taking dxm when I was in my teens.
I didnt take it alot, or in multiple bottle doses.

I stayed away from dxm for all my 20's

when I turned 30, addicted to opiates, I started reading up on dxm's nmda antagonist effect on opiate tolerance.

I took a preliminary dose to test this out, and was very pleased with the result.

this started a 1 year program of at least 75 milligrams a day of dxm. most days I would take between 75 milligrams, and maybe on my weekends move up to 300+ milligrams but never over 400 milligrams.

alot of shitty things happened to me during this time, but little of it had to do with dxm consumption.

the stuff increases psychic connectivity I think. I and a few other people close to me watched synchronicities abound over the 1st 30 days of me taking it. very strange experience that really cant be explained in a rational manner to anyone except those that have experienced such.

dxm seems to cause a physical dependency similiar to stimulant abuse.
dxm mixed with various psychedelics tends to moderate and lessen the cognitive dysfunction that some psychs can cause.

dxm can radically change the effect of opiate tolerance, this alone was worth taking it for me.

I decided to get off of dxm after a year. no real major incident caused me to do this. I had gone through 3 different shit jobs in that year, and at first thought maybe the dxm influenced that. but looking back to the days right after 9/11 in this town, I realized that what happened was more due to employers realizing they had an upper hand, and living in a right to work state, ALL SORTS of rights violations were being committed all around me. if anything, the dxm caused me to not stand for bullshit treatment.

I did suffer some withdrawls from dxm, mainly being tired, depressed, and getting spatial disorientation effects. the withdrawl didnt start for 3 days, and felt very similiar to effexor withdrawl. as I was still on opiates I didnt notice some other side effects I am sure.

I didnt really notice long lasting effects from taking dxm. I made a few returns to the drug to try and lower tolerance, but for some reason now I cannot take the stuff, even in reccomeded amounts.

looking at all the deaths that occur yearly from dxm, I find it really infuriating that things like salvia divinorum are singled out for control, whilst a drug that has caused overdose for year after year, for almost 50 years, is still OTC and being abused widely. protection of profits pure and simple. there are other antitussive materials that arent patentable that I think would work similarly to dxm.

a freind of mines kid who is in middle school, was stopped by his dad as he threw his cough syrup in his school pack. the dad asked him why he was taking it to school. the kid told him it made him cool, and funny around the rest of the kids.
another dxm psychonaught?

you know, I havnt seen one shred of evidence for this olneys lesions associated with dxm use/abuse. I think that paper might apply to some cases sure....but this drug has been used close to a half century, where is all the evidence of olneys lesions at? I dont think much evidence exists around dxm personally, but it still is something to consider.

I dont think the drug should be prescription, but I think that codeine would be a better OTC cough medicine, it at least isnt abusable as a dissasociative, and probably in concentration forms isnt as likely to cause an overdose. perhaps otc drugs like dxm should be kept behind the counter, and a person have to be 18 to obtain.

for my purposes I found the polisterex version of dxm better for maintenance.

Hammilton
02-02-2007, 08:09 AM
I spent the day I made that post going through death statistics. Every time Dextromethorphan came up, it was related to a straight overdose with no mention of redosing or synergistic combinations. SSRIs were the most common, and MAO inhibitors weren't too uncommon.

Your college students are just more anecdotal evidence. Perhaps you need to look up the definition?

I tried getting a copy of the paper from the doc but it was a no-go. I'm not surprized in the least, but I had hope since the patient and I were so close. Too much risk of it ending up online. I'm not worried. It isn't proof, of course, but when the lesions haven't been described in humans, this'll go a long way to indicate that it's possible in heavy abuse.

It's kinda like the AIDS-without-HIV study the HIV-isn't-the-Causer's are looking for- just one case would be a huge step (not that I'm in that particular crowd.)

Dexter the Meth Orphan
02-06-2007, 09:50 AM
I spent the day I made that post going through death statistics. Every time Dextromethorphan came up, it was related to a straight overdose with no mention of redosing or synergistic combinations. SSRIs were the most common, and MAO inhibitors weren't too uncommon.

Your college students are just more anecdotal evidence. Perhaps you need to look up the definition?

I tried getting a copy of the paper from the doc but it was a no-go. I'm not surprized in the least, but I had hope since the patient and I were so close. Too much risk of it ending up online. I'm not worried. It isn't proof, of course, but when the lesions haven't been described in humans, this'll go a long way to indicate that it's possible in heavy abuse.

It's kinda like the AIDS-without-HIV study the HIV-isn't-the-Causer's are looking for- just one case would be a huge step (not that I'm in that particular crowd.)



SPRINGFIELD - Legislation outlawing a common cough syrup ingredient in its pure form was approved Wednesday by the Illinois House.

Dextromethorphan, also known as DXM, is found in products such as NyQuil. However, such medications would not be affected by the measure.

The drug in its pure form can cause seizures, comas and death.

The proposal is in response to the 2004 death of Eric Richardson of Oakland and the 2003 death of Jonathan Frary, an Illinois State University student.

If someone is caught with DXM, they would get one to three years in jail and up to $25,000 in fines. Those caught selling DXM would get three to seven years in jail and $25,000 in fines under the legislation.

House Bill 4300 now goes to the governor for approval. State Rep. Chapin Rose, R-Mahomet, the measure's sponsor, said he does not anticipate opposition.

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/04...news/111104.txt (http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/04/06/news/111104.txt)

Dexter the Meth Orphan
02-06-2007, 09:52 AM
Published May 26, 2006

SPRINGFIELD -- Gov. Rod Blagojevich signed into law Thursday a bill banning the sale of the pure form of a drug commonly found in over-the-counter cough medicines.

The law would make illegal to sell, possess, deliver or distribute dextromethorphan, known as DXM, unless it was obtained through a prescription or an over-the-counter medicine, such as Robitussin, which contains acceptable doses of the drug, Blagojevich said.

The law, which takes effect immediately, arose from the September 2003 death of an Illinois State University student who overdosed on DXM bought in pure form over the Internet, according to a statement from the governor's office.



DXM, used to get a high or feel hallucinogenic effects, also can cause confusion and dizziness to vomiting and rapid heart beat, according to the Partnership for a Drug-Free America Web site. DXM is also known as "skittles," "robo" or "Triple C," the partnership site said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/w...ack=1&cset=true (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/w...ack=1&cset=true)


"The idea that kids can go on line and easily get their hands on a dangerous drug is appalling," Blagojevich said.


^THIS DEALS WITH POWDER FORM DXM^

jacky
02-07-2007, 11:47 PM
yeah, fuck anyone else but the drug companies making money off of dxm, lets force kids to consume all sorts of other ingredients with their dxm. fucking pointless.

really now all anyone needs to do to come out with a dxm containing material in that state is market their dxm mixed with herbs or some inactive filler. otc materials like dxm can be sold by anyone who has a tax ID and produces the product out of their home or business . the fda has VERY lax laws concerning supplements if you sell them from your house, basically you are exempt from fda guidlines if your company is based from your residence. all you need is a phone number.

so anyone really could slip around this law, as you need no licenses I think to add dxm or other otc compounds like caffeine to your supplement product. you could make your own herbal cough syrup, fortified with dxm, and dxm could be 95% of the weight, or gel cap it mixed with some herbs.

getting dxm in bulk is really easy, you just need a real business to get most of the companys that sell it in bulk to take you seriously. they most likely wont sell to individuals who represent themselves as a person who wants to use the material personally, better to tell them you want to sell it as an ingredient.

Dexter the Meth Orphan
02-09-2007, 02:59 PM
yeah, fuck anyone else but the drug companies making money off of dxm, lets force kids to consume all sorts of other ingredients with their dxm. fucking pointless.

really now all anyone needs to do to come out with a dxm containing material in that state is market their dxm mixed with herbs or some inactive filler. otc materials like dxm can be sold by anyone who has a tax ID and produces the product out of their home or business . the fda has VERY lax laws concerning supplements if you sell them from your house, basically you are exempt from fda guidlines if your company is based from your residence. all you need is a phone number.

so anyone really could slip around this law, as you need no licenses I think to add dxm or other otc compounds like caffeine to your supplement product. you could make your own herbal cough syrup, fortified with dxm, and dxm could be 95% of the weight, or gel cap it mixed with some herbs.

getting dxm in bulk is really easy, you just need a real business to get most of the companys that sell it in bulk to take you seriously. they most likely wont sell to individuals who represent themselves as a person who wants to use the material personally, better to tell them you want to sell it as an ingredient.

Agreed, and you are a damned good man! Keep it smart and keep it real!

Chris

Hammilton
02-14-2007, 11:00 AM
You just keep using anecdotal evidence and passing it off as something more.

Dexter the Meth Orphan
02-14-2007, 11:40 PM
and to think that I am the one that favors dissociatives...you need to back your head of your ass hammy

kingdxm
03-13-2007, 11:41 PM
I have to agree that the report that dexter recited sounds like it is full of holes, not your brain in DXM. I have used DXM over 300 times and have never noticed liver, kidney, or "brain holes". It sounds like a biased report. Sure just like any drug you can overdose on it. I (including myself) have seen people OD on dex but ususlly they just become comatose-like or a little looney but it wears off several hours later. DXM has been used for stroke victims to lessen brain damage after the stroke by blocking the flooding of glutamate in the brain which causes the brain to absorb excess calcium. this excess of calcium causes brain cells to explode and be destroyed. So it seems odd that a drug like DXM can cause brain damage when it seems to prevent it in stroke victims.