Would Potentiaters Increase Tolerance?

[OhJoy]

I've been reading alot lately about using things like benadryl, tagment and CA blockers etc to potentiate opiates and that is all great information. But then it seems logical that if you use potentiators, your tolerance would increase.

I'm not sure if I understand it correctly, but potentiators take up receptors so that you have more of the opiate stuff swirling around in your brain. But as a result ( I thought) of increased opiates swirling around, your body adapts and makes new receptors. So whether you take more opiates or use a potentiator you body will adapt by making more receptors, so reguardless you will need more opiates to feel high. Hence tolerance goes up. Am I understanding this right?

What we really need is something that will kill some receptors or at least stop the process of creating more, so a lower does will make us high again. I believe someone mentioned naloxone as a way of inhibiting your body from creating new receptors. But that seems too tricky.

I hope I didn't get it all wrong, but I just wanted to see if I was understanding what I was reading.

Although I'm keeping my doses low right now, it would be nice to know how to keep it that way.

I can't tell you what a learning experience this site has been for me. This is the only real drug education I have. I mean you have all this crap about 'war on drug' and 'just say no' bullshit, but no one is really educating the public. I didn't even know what a Mu receptor was until I started frequenting this site.

[ProdigalSon]

I agree with you entirely. Ive learned more from thius site tahn I can explain

[robojunkie]

Short answer: Yes and no.

Things like Tagamet (cimetidine) and grapefruit juice inhibit the CPY-450 liver enzyme system which also happens to metabolize many drugs. So in this case they will last longer/build up and therefore the tolerance will go up as though you were doing whatever amount that kept your serum levels similar to those reached with the enzyme inhibitors...

But things like dxm and many other NMDA antagonists and other drugs that work on some part of the opiate system, OLR-1 or NMDA receptors actually attenuate tolerance development. I've even read a paper (and there is at least one other thread about this) where very low dose methadone (something like 1 or 2 mgs) will actually slow the development of tolerance to morphine type opiates. I believe this is rationalized by the fact that the way the mu receptor reacts to "saturation" with methadone is essentially opposite that of its response to morphine type opes. One causes receptors to be internalized in the cell and degraded, one essentially causes the proliferation of receptors (overly simplified version of it but that's the basic idea). Hope this helps...

[HistoryofMadness]

I don't think so. There is potentiation and then there's synergy, and most people use potentiation when they're talking about both. But keeping your receptors saturated longer doesn't translate into having more of a drug. It just prolongs the effects.

There's a lot of info on this topic, and a lot of opinions, and both are presented as fact. Your best bet is to read what's here in conjunction with some research off-site. Then you can make an educated guess as to what is truth.



If you want to keep your tolerance low, use the synergy from other chems, but change them out all the time. Otherwise you might pick up an additional addiction.

There's also supposition that some chems slow tolerance. Read read read you'll find it all here.

[SalvationThroughDilaudid]

I've been reading alot lately about using things like benadryl, tagment and CA blockers etc to potentiate opiates and that is all great information. But then it seems logical that if you use potentiators, your tolerance would increase.

I'm not sure if I understand it correctly, but potentiators take up receptors so that you have more of the opiate stuff swirling around in your brain. But as a result ( I thought) of increased opiates swirling around, your body adapts and makes new receptors. So whether you take more opiates or use a potentiator you body will adapt by making more receptors, so reguardless you will need more opiates to feel high. Hence tolerance goes up. Am I understanding this right?

What we really need is something that will kill some receptors or at least stop the process of creating more, so a lower does will make us high again. I believe someone mentioned naloxone as a way of inhibiting your body from creating new receptors. But that seems too tricky.

I hope I didn't get it all wrong, but I just wanted to see if I was understanding what I was reading.

Although I'm keeping my doses low right now, it would be nice to know how to keep it that way.

I can't tell you what a learning experience this site has been for me. This is the only real drug education I have. I mean you have all this crap about 'war on drug' and 'just say no' bullshit, but no one is really educating the public. I didn't even know what a Mu receptor was until I started frequenting this site.


This is the case for me. When I use potentiators of any sort be it benadryl, benzos, tagamet, or grapefruit juice, it seems like my tolerance goes up even more than it would have when I didn't use them. At one point 20mg hydro could get me high and it stayed that way for months. When I started using potentiators like benadryl and grapefruit juice, after about 1 week it took about 35-40mg to get that same high. After maybe 3 weeks of increased useage of potentiators it now takes me about 40-50mg of hydro if I want to nod. And it seems like it wears off way faster now. The only potentiators that didn't seem to increase tolerance as much were the benzos. But use caution when mixing benzos and opiates, because not only do benzos make opiates stronger, but opiates make BENZOS stronger as well !!!

I had a theory that if you could use a full agonist like hydro/morphine/whatever, for just right up until you become dependent on it, but not ACTUALLY reach the point of dependence, and then switch to an antagonist like butorphanol, then maybe you could avoid massive tolerance to full agonists. In other words, maybe something like 7-9 days on morphine, then after the last dose of morphine is out of you switch to 7-9 days of butorphanol (or nubain or some other antagonist that can still get you high). The idea would be to rotate between agonists and antagonists and stop right before you hit the point of physical dependency where you'd have w/d's upon discontinuation. This idea may well be bullshit, but I think it might be worth looking into.

[kyuss]

I would think
it would help
to keep the tolerance down
by getting the most
out of the potentiated dose