Ketamine as a potentiator?

[covv799ss]

SWIM came across a source for ketamine powder the other day. 200mg going for 20$. Dealer says it's a great potentiator, that he saves a lot of money by rotating lines of coke and K. SWIM has sworn off uppers and will never experience this firsthand, but was wondering if it's worth fetching some to potentiate some good ol' opies with.

Has anyone had any experience with this? How many milligrams would be consistent with a potentiating effect? Is the potentiating effect greater than OTC stuff like DXM? SWIM hates DXM with a passion. Is the dose required for potentiation in the same ballpark with a dissociative effect, because SWIM probably wouldn't enjoy it if it was.

Big thanks to anyone able to shed some light on this.

[Chipper]

(you pay $20 for 200mg - i pay $170 for 100mg)

The effect of Ketamine is greater than DXM; it will overpower the opiate at doses probably above 30 mg or so and will last about 20 mins IV.

Stay away if you hate DXM.

[covv799ss]

(you pay $20 for 200mg - i pay $170 for 100mg)

The effect of Ketamine is greater than DXM; it will overpower the opiate at doses probably above 30 mg or so and will last about 20 mins IV.

Stay away if you hate DXM.


Thanks for the heads-up

Those prices sound insane-- over 1$/mg?!

[applesauce]

Chipper, are you getting it from Mailpharma or is that a local price?

You should be paying under $100 for a gram no matter where you live. $1700/g is just a little high.

I pay $30/g for cheap but decent liquid K, and $60/g for brand-name over-the-top fine wine K. I've heard of $100/g, but never actually seen anyone selling for that.

Mailpharma has it for around that much though, that's why I ask. I still have part of an order from them, I paid their price hoping it was some bathtub clone like PCP. It wasn't, it's "real" K, much to my disappointment.

To SWIM, the K high feels like an old friend, and DXM feels like the devil tearing out my soul. SWIM found both feelings to be useful and insightful, but to SWIM, K is MUCH more recreational. It is like the difference between a nice massage from a woman you love, and a drunken fuck with an ugly prostitute.

[chemboy7]

Yeah, K would potentiate Opaites... sounds alittle risky though. I wouldn't know where to start with my tolerance so there's no way I could ballpark a figure for you not knowing yours. I would start super low, like a dose you don't figure would even work and climb up slowly until I found my niche. Actually, on second thought, I would just shoot the K and do the Opaites later. Sure it's going to potentiate but it's also going to add it's own flavor and not liking DXM in combination it's a good bet that I wouldn't care for the K mix either. Everyone always says how risky mixing benzos and Opaites can be, I don't think that would touch mixing dissociative anestetics - seems much more dangerous.

[jacky]

even small amounts of K with heroin left me puking puking puking.

which even on small amounts of K felt like throwing up plastic beads. not really a bad thing the puking, but there was little else I could do upon injection,...but puke.
the psychoactive effects seemed a little blunted when using with strong opiates as well.

this was at least 10 years ago....I dont do such things as heroin anymore.

1700$ for K is INSANE.
I wouldnt pay that unless I had never experienced it before, and I was locked up.

the only K in my parts I have ever seen was from taken from hospitals by doctors, and also stuff that was taken by a vet as a "spill-over ratio". basically so much spill over is allowed for K when pushing air out of the syringe. the vet would figure the legal spill over ratio amount that would not attract attention, and take a portion of it, and then take caution to not waste any when he used it. since they used it alot at his work, that amounted to 6-7 bottles every 6 months.

I have read in Karl Jansens book on ketamine that in Russia it was being used as a pain reliever as well as anasthetic. used for chronic pain relief I geuss.

I am fascinated by the stuff, but really cant get into taking it alot, so I cannot see myself using it as a tolerance reducer. memantine would be an easier nmda antagonist to get that would potentiate/reduce tolerance. there is a recent report on erowid I think about a person taking a large memantine overdose that had minimal effect similiar to dxm at first, and then caused long term mental dysfunction afterword.
with memantine in low dose you wouldnt have to experience psychoactive effects like taking low dose ketamine. unless you built up a tolerance to ketamine, even in the 10 milligram range it can provide a strange feeling, sorta speedy/dodgy.
maybe a 10 milligram, extended release ketamine dose would potentiate opiates, and not cause any effectst that would make work hard/driving dangerous etc.?
or a ketamine patch perhaps.

look into karl jansens book about ketamine abuse if you havnt had a painful ketamine binge experience, from my limited experience I can only imagine....I am sure my years worth of dxm use might give me some insight.

[applesauce]

There are some fascinating studies being done recently involving using K as a treatment for serious depression. I've noticed a wonderful effect that lingers for several days after strong K experiences, but it doesn't happen every time.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ketamine+depression&btnG=Google+Search

Dr. John Lilly, MD. did K I.V. once an hour ever hour 24 times a day for several months, and he was fine. Of course for a good period of time, he was using a sensory deprivation chamber to use while he was communicating telepathically with alien intelligence, but as far as biological or physical damage, he was healthy.

[covv799ss]

Everyone always says how risky mixing benzos and Opaites can be, I don't think that would touch mixing dissociative anestetics - seems much more dangerous.

For some reason I was under the impression it wasn't too dangerous...it had been referenced so much here. Well, thanks for bringing that to my attention.



I am fascinated by the stuff, but really cant get into taking it alot, so I cannot see myself using it as a tolerance reducer. memantine would be an easier nmda antagonist to get that would potentiate/reduce tolerance. there is a recent report on erowid I think about a person taking a large memantine overdose that had minimal effect similiar to dxm at first, and then caused long term mental dysfunction afterword.
with memantine in low dose you wouldnt have to experience psychoactive effects like taking low dose ketamine. unless you built up a tolerance to ketamine, even in the 10 milligram range it can provide a strange feeling, sorta speedy/dodgy.
maybe a 10 milligram, extended release ketamine dose would potentiate opiates, and not cause any effectst that would make work hard/driving dangerous etc.?

That's another thing...the whole Olney's lesions or whatever. It's only with heavy prolonged use, but it'd still feel nasty to imbibe a substance with that kind of toxic capability on a regular basis...I've heard that ketamine is the safer than DXM and PCP, though, as far as that goes.



To SWIM, the K high feels like an old friend, and DXM feels like the devil tearing out my soul. SWIM found both feelings to be useful and insightful, but to SWIM, K is MUCH more recreational. It is like the difference between a nice massage from a woman you love, and a drunken fuck with an ugly prostitute.

That seems to be the general consensus out of people who've tried both. I only tried DXM once, when I was sixteen. I chugged a gigantic bottle of the generic Wal-Mart syrup (the one that contained guafinesin and some other antihistamine) as per the advice one of my tussin-chugging friends; ended up puking for 8 hours.

I felt like I was floating outside of my body and thought I was in a different room doing things like smoking a cigarette with a green ember, watching TV that had nothing on it but black and white spirals, all while I was puking in the bathroom upstairs. Granted, it was probably much too high of a dose for a first-timer, but I'm in no hurry to repeat the experience...

Hell, I might try the K by itself and see how it is...but as for potentiating it, from the responses I've gotten I don't find that such a great idea anymore. Thanks for the input folks.

[Dolophine]

For me KETAMINE IS NOTHING! like DXM! Ketamine makes me EXTREMELY nauseas. And it totally OUTPOWERS opiates and makes them useless and you just get a K high.

K sucks it makes you just sit there barely able to move. You become PARALYZED and get very frightened sometimes and it makes you pretty nauseas.

KETAMINE IS THE BEST PAINKILLER HANDS DOWN! My mother takes it for pain. Legally and it's great. I tried it and my pain was numbed for over 10 hours. I literally could not feel anything not even pinches. It was amazing. But very nauseating. An amazing drug nonetheless.

It totally NUMBS your senses. It's much more effective than Opiates/Opioids. It's much better about 10000 times better for relief of pain. In my opinion it is the most amazing thing for pain ever created.

[Chipper]

Chipper, are you getting it from Mailpharma or is that a local price?

You should be paying under $100 for a gram no matter where you live. $1700/g is just a little high.



Sorry, applesauce - i meant 170 per gram from the street. I live in Australia and have never used/heard of Mailpharma. Geez your prices for dope are cheap, indeed.

For those who get nausea from K, try to keep your head still for about 20 minutes next time because if you don't then you will experience motion sickness (well, it works for me).

And YES, it can be a great anti-depressent and pain killer. But be carefull because I destroyed a tooth when I ate a crusty pizza because I couldn't feel any pain in my mouth.

For those wondering, the only K related death was from exposure, of all things!

[applesauce]

That makes sense, $170/g. If that is USD it would still be expensive, but it is reasonable I think, if K is difficult to find in Oz.

Good advice about the nausea too. SWIM get nausea from K, but it is manageable, SWIM just tries not to move too much and it goes away, it just sort of gets absorbed into the buzz.

I think the infamous K researcher D.M. Turner died doing I.V. K, but it wasn't directly related to ketamine, it was because he had done the shot while sitting in a bathtub. He drowned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._M._Turner

[SuperJunky]

Once again I'm going against the general consensus but K is great for a potentiator, granted you need to get the dose right but I find its much more enjoyable to use 10-15mg of k to potentiate than even 50mg dxm, it seems to affect the high less, and the edge it adds is enjoyable rather than strange. I did find increased nasea but it wasnt unbarable, reminded me of the naseua I used to get from opiates alone. If I do a larger dose it seems to drop my tolerance for a couple days. Later today I'm going to try a K, Dope, Proglumide combo, and tomarrow start a kratom proglumide w/ occasional K to take the edge off taper.

[Chipper]

K and stimulants go well together as they increase K clearance time and also less K hangover. Repeated use of K will result in increased tolerance (to K).

[Digitopium]

I really feel like I need to throw in on this thread, being I have had a huge variety of experiences with, and a long history of recreational K use. First thing - its a great recreational drug, and for any opiophile who likes getting completely tore up, I challenge you to find a more dissociating, out of body experience than high dose ketamine (aka a K-HOLE). Fun stuff. Another thing to consider is that if you find a healthy supply of K and are a regular or daily user of opiates, DO NOT use K on a regular basis with your opiates. K is HELL on your brain, and can lead to a disconcerting spacey-ness affecting your sober demeanor....like you are driving in a totally familiar area and keep passing the streets where you meant to turn and then realize it a few minutes ex post facto. Shit turns you into a space cadet....I recovered though. I think. That was the result of 2 grams of freebase K from a chemical manufacturer in india sending out samples for people "considering" buying bulk in kilos.....best K I have ever had - and all 2 grams was GONE in about 2 weeks. There is a reason this shit was used as an anesthetic and still is for animals.

Not long ago I dosed 160mg Oxy in solution and browned it...then got involved in a spontaneous K spelunking session with the intent of getting into a hole. Combined effects made me very nauseous and sweat ALOT...way more than either substance alone would have.

So as a potentiator, I cannot vouch for its efficacy. It certainly didnt make my opiate high feel any better.

For those not experienced with K, I feel I must also mention that the substance has a very different high at a low dose than it does a high dose. High dose K can be totally debilitating, with the onset of "couch-lock" within 5 minutes of a moderate rail inslufated. Low dose K gives one a floaty, moon-bouncey feeling, as well as affecting your vision and auditory perception. the only drug I know of that actually affects your perception of physics....can make you feel 3x as heavy as you are when trying to walk. To test this out, I HIGHLY suggest finding someone with a rectangular trampoline (circular ones are totally pussy), and jumping around after a low to moderate K dose.

Either way K is fun, just limit it to every once in awhile. Hands down one of my favorite substances in the right circumstances.:cool:

Wanted to add: tolerance to K is almost at an exponential scale. If you do K in small doses for a couple of days, in a few days the effects will be nearly nothing unless you drastically increase the dose. Last 2 things: K without good strong pot is like santa clause without presents. The two BELONG together. Also, doing bumps of K throughout a night of drinking can be ALOT of fun. alcohol and K go well together if dosed gradually.

[elegua]

Interesting...I learned about Ketamine both from my dad and the Lily books. My first interest in it was as a deep hallucination. It amused me a few years later to see teenagers snorting little bumps of it as a 'fun' drug, then getting terrified out of the very experience I find the most enjoyable, the "k-hole!" For me, the K-hole is the entire point of the adventure, and if you let yourself go, it's one of the most beautiful, joyous hallucinogenic experience you can have, and everyone who experienced K with me, with this mindset, never once had a negative experience/bad trip.

Regarding K as a potentiator, I'm still not 100% sure, but if you want to try it for yourself, do not even REMOTELY approach any 'high' dose. The theory of it is that you have just a little bit of memory reduction. In the past, people have noticed that opiates can seem more powerful when you take them in a very unfamiliar environment...so, I guess y'all can understand the reasoning from there.

I am still not convinced that olney's lesions are a serious issue. So far, the studies (or study? I'm not sure about any folllow-ups to the initial reporting) were in regards to one specific dissociative agent...I forget which one, but it wasn't ketamine, nitrous oxide, or dxm. The study's author made a huge leap in assuming that because one dissociative had certain effects in rats, that all others will have the same effect, and will have the same effect in humans! Ketamine and Nitrous Oxide both have decades of medical use in humans, in much higher doses than most recreational users would ever approach, and I'd think that someone would have noticed such lesions by this time.

Still, it would probably be smart to limit one's use...but moderation is hardly bad advice for anything! But for users who appreciate the deep mystical experience of the k-hole, daily use isn't that common -- I'd worry much more for people who took 10mg bumps all day long as opposed to someone who did a 100mg trip once every week or so.