View Full Version : Dont knock Benzos!
satori
12-21-2006, 02:35 AM
I have seen a lot of people posting bad stuff about benzo's online. Calling it names, poison, toxin etc etc.
Im always suprised how people give benzo's such a bad wrap like its THE WORST DRUG PERIOD. Try taking barbiturates at high doses and then after becoming dependant stp taking it- THEN TALK about how bad withdrawal and side affects are. But you might not be able to tell any one because theres a good chance you would die. Keep things in perspective. Benzos were the maricle cure for barb's addicts and people who needed that type of treatment. People were dying litteraly losing there lives because of WD from them. I have gone through xanax, clonopin, and ativan WD before so i am very experienced in regaurds to this toppic. I was on 2mg of clonopin every night for years then had to stop so i know what im not just some ass hole trying to sound like i know a lot because i read the benzo page on wikipedia.
When you take big doses of benzo's and black out what did you expect to happen? Its like drinking a 1/5th of vodka with no tollerance and being suprised you slept with your neigbhor and ran around outside naked. Its easier to take little pills then it is to drink a bottle of vodka because you see how much liquid there is when u can down 10 pills in one gulp. However that been said i even think benzo's in general are safer in larger doses then alcohol in larger doses.
moviebuff927
12-21-2006, 02:43 AM
I have seen a lot of people posting bad stuff about benzo's online. Calling it names, poison, toxin etc etc.
Im always suprised how people give benzo's such a bad wrap like its THE WORST DRUG PERIOD. Try taking barbiturates at high doses and then after becoming dependant stp taking it- THEN TALK about how bad withdrawal and side affects are. But you might not be able to tell any one because theres a good chance you would die. Keep things in perspective. Benzos were the maricle cure for barb's addicts and people who needed that type of treatment. People were dying litteraly losing there lives because of WD from them. I have gone through xanax, clonopin, and ativan WD before so i am very experienced in regaurds to this toppic. I was on 2mg of clonopin every night for years then had to stop so i know what im not just some ass hole trying to sound like i know a lot because i read the benzo page on wikipedia.
When you take big doses of benzo's and black out what did you expect to happen? Its like drinking a 1/5th of vodka with no tollerance and being suprised you slept with your neigbhor and ran around outside naked. Its easier to take little pills then it is to drink a bottle of vodka because you see how much liquid there is when u can down 10 pills in one gulp. However that been said i even think benzo's in general are safer in larger doses then alcohol in larger doses.
You have really good points. It is a lot safer than alcohol. It does help a lot of people with anxiety/sleep problems. It works well AS PRESCRIBED.
For me, I can't take them like normal people can. I have an addictive personality and when I take even a small amount, enough to feel good, I always go overboard and take more if I have them. I make the worst decisions on them. Everytime in the past when I started smoking crack again after quitting it's been because I've run out of benzos and I'm in a really fucked up state of mind. Everytime I've overdosed on opiates it's because I had taken too many benzos and I took too much opiates because I was in a fucked up state of mind. I never make a wise, rational decision while on them.
That's not to say they don't work for other people. But they have bad consequences when I take them and I can't tell you how much I feel like shit when I wake up and can't remember what I've done for the past week. And when people tell me, I feel ashamed.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But for some people they just are evil little fuckers.
moviebuff927
12-21-2006, 02:45 AM
Oh yeah,
Barbs were pretty bad, especially the short acting ones. I have had the pleasure of taking Seconal on more than one occasion and each time it led me not only to make bad decisions (like taking more on top of what I already took) but also put me in the hospital. They are TOO easy to OD on and that's one of the main reasons they created benzodiazepines.
But I think barbs are more fun than benzos. I can sleep on barbs, I can't sleep on benzos.
applesauce
12-21-2006, 03:50 PM
Yeah barbs are a lot more fun than benzos. Our dog takes pheno, and I actually asked the pharmacist once if they still made Tuinal or Seconal. She said they don't stock them (at this chain pharm) but they are still prescribed occasionally.
Benzos do a specific job. A lot of people build up ridiculous tolerance to them without respect for the inevitable addiction, and they end up WDing from 20+ mg Xanax a day. Death does occur sometimes.
They're a long shot safer than barbs though, and they work much better for stress and anxiety.
Benzos shouldn't be discounted, they're really useful, they just aren't especially recreational (compared to other things). They can be nice now and then for fun or to enhance other things, but for the most part, I personally consider them to be just a tool, not a toy. Used as prescribed they're not so unsafe. Used indiscriminately, they can put a serious hurt on you.
Not unlike a handgun or a hammer.
I usually just make sure I cover all the bases and chase my 10 Xanax bars with the 1/5 of vodka.
applesauce
12-21-2006, 03:58 PM
I usually just make sure I cover all the bases and chase my 10 Xanax bars with the 1/5 of vodka.
Isn't there a famous quote, something like "I chase my yellow jackets with bourbon"?
insaneike
12-21-2006, 04:00 PM
Maybe cause not many of us like the high they give? Now if we're talking comapred to barbs and their intended effects... well, BENZOS ARE GOD LIKE! As I still use xanax for my nerves, and it does help me sleep, VERY good at helping me sleep...
I think the ppl around here that knock them are going on the recreational aspect of benzos man... i think you was just mis-directed. I don't ever remember someone bashing benzos when used to treat barb addiction or for their claming effects for nerves or to get sleep, hell, I'm sure everyone will agree they are damned near a godsend for that!
Now as far as recreational and getting fucked up goes, I personally say fuck benzos. I don't like them the least bit really. I did back in my coke binging and tripping days though, but thats diff hehe. The effect I get just isn't too enjoyable to ME. Now for the reasons you described they are DAMN GOOD! They aren't really dangerous as far as an OD goes(it'd take probably hundreds of MG of xanax for the LD50), but they cause blackouts, total memory, loss, ect. at relatively low doses, sometimes just twice the recomended dose in some ppl! This is VERY dangerous! You wouldn't beleive the ppl I've seen fuck themselves and their shit all up from benzos(at recreational doses, not intended like u speak of)! I've witnessed MANY a car crashes all cause benzos. Hell, the last time I got fucked up on benzos(a good 3yrs ago) when I had my first apartment I kinda fell and smashed all into my TV< busted it ALL to hell lol, for some reason it seemed like a good idea to climb up ONTO THE DAMN TV! yeeah.. just imagine lol. Now when I would get tore on benzos for some reason I wanted to go out and do shit, like shiiiit yeah, lets go PARTY! those damn things ruin so many families it's not even funny. One my best buds marriage ended cause his wife was so bad on benzos she'd not worry about what her newborn was doing and such. and i'm probably stating the obvious but fuck benzos, those things are dangerous and they suck! Now thers a few who love them but meh, to each his own :P
Papa Verine
12-21-2006, 04:09 PM
Isn't there a famous quote, something like "I chase my yellow jackets with bourbon"?
Yellow Jackets were 15mg dextroamphetamine sulphate. I used to use them. And yes, I'd chase them down with hard liquor! I don't like speed after the first 30 minutes.
Well said Ike.
I've said it before, and I still believe it 100% that benzo's are the most dangerous drug I've ever used. Obviously I'm saying that because I didn't use as directed, didn't take caution when driving or operating heavy machinery, and I didn't abstain from the use of alcohol. :p
applesauce
12-21-2006, 04:20 PM
Yellow Jackets were 15mg dextroamphetamine sulphate. I used to use them. And yes, I'd chase them down with hard liquor! I don't like speed after the first 30 minutes.
I always thought of Nembutal (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/yellow+jacket) but I'm not surprised there were yellow dexie caps too. Whatever happened to the cool bright capsules like oldschool barbs and amphetamines? Black Beauties (RJS, Bifetamine I think...) Seconal (Reds) etc...
Pills are still pretty, but only because when I look at them I can remember the way they will make me feel. :)
http://www.luhs.org/health/kbase/htm/mdx-/drim/7/mdx-drim7.htm
I used to really like those things...
"Nembutal numbs it all, but I prefer alcohol!" -The Clash
tptptp
12-21-2006, 05:17 PM
As has been said as a recreational drug they are quite dangerous. I doubt there are many if anyone here using them for something like coming off barbs, therefore they get knocked alot - because in that respect they cause many OD deaths from mixing. Mixing drugs with benzos = blackouts and OD's
Most drugs arent very dangerous when taken as prescribed. I dont think many people take beznos w/out something else and I dont think anyone here takes them as prescribed....
Papa Verine
12-21-2006, 05:29 PM
I always thought of Nembutal (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/yellow+jacket) but I'm not surprised there were yellow dexie caps too. Whatever happened to the cool bright capsules like oldschool barbs and amphetamines? Black Beauties (RJS, Bifetamine I think...) Seconal (Reds) etc...
Pills are still pretty, but only because when I look at them I can remember the way they will make me feel. :)
http://www.luhs.org/health/kbase/htm/mdx-/drim/7/mdx-drim7.htm
I used to really like those things...
"Nembutal numbs it all, but I prefer alcohol!" -The Clash
I don't know about the Nembutal, you might be right. But, when I had a supply of those dextroamphetamines, they were made by Smith Klein Beechem and the 15mg ones were half black and half yellow capsules. He called them "Yellow jackets" and I thought it made sense.
schizo
12-21-2006, 06:52 PM
Yeah, it may seem like I have been bashing them a bit recently. I personally love benzos and I never get too out of control with them (I do have a few stories though:rolleyes:). A lot of people don't seem to enjoy them for recreational purposes but I have many friends who they have been a godsend for as they suffer pretty bad anxiety and have a lot of shit they are dealing with. Benzos rock for sure.
SpecialGuy69
12-21-2006, 07:09 PM
I think the problem opiophiles have with benzos is that we're used to taking large amounts of pills at once, and needing to re-dose every few hours (minutes?). With benzos, it's a really bad idea to do that. So when you do, you get fucked.
Papa Verine
12-21-2006, 07:11 PM
Yeah, it may seem like I have been bashing them a bit recently. I personally love benzos and I never get too out of control with them (I do have a few stories though:rolleyes:). A lot of people don't seem to enjoy them for recreational purposes but I have many friends who they have been a godsend for as they suffer pretty bad anxiety and have a lot of shit they are dealing with. Benzos rock for sure.
I think their recreational value is HUGE! I love benzos. To me they're like alcohol in a pill. You can get fucked up, act stupid, wind up in jail, kill someone... whatever! and all awhile your anxiety is resting peacefully at Bay somewhere deep in your mind.
The cure for anxiety...with a fifth of Bourbon...all in a couple small pills!
Gimme' some of those little fuckers! 25 blue footballs please...
sOfAKiNg
12-21-2006, 07:42 PM
How long does it take for your benzo tolerance to go down? Cause it takes me 5 2mg Klonapins all at once to feel anything.
SpecialGuy69
12-21-2006, 07:45 PM
How long does it take for your benzo tolerance to go down? Cause it takes me 5 2mg Klonapins all at once to feel anything.eleventythree days.
Papa Verine
12-21-2006, 07:49 PM
eleventythree days.
HAH!
sOfAKiNg
12-21-2006, 07:52 PM
Thanx for all the help
Duckfeet
12-21-2006, 08:39 PM
I always thought of Nembutal (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/yellow+jacket) but I'm not surprised there were yellow dexie caps too. Whatever happened to the cool bright capsules like oldschool barbs and amphetamines? Black Beauties (RJS, Bifetamine I think...) Seconal (Reds) etc...
Pills are still pretty, but only because when I look at them I can remember the way they will make me feel. :)
http://www.luhs.org/health/kbase/htm/mdx-/drim/7/mdx-drim7.htm
I used to really like those things...
"Nembutal numbs it all, but I prefer alcohol!" -The Clash
We did a drugstore once and sold all the reds, all the rainbows, and all the yellows to some downer freaks. These guys come back all all pissed off, I mean *really* pissed off, because apparently we'ed gotten the yellows--which we *thought* were nembutals, mixed up with some yellow-capsule speed, which I *didn't* know about. I never knew what they were, but I guess this answers it. People'ed fix all those three, too. I can imagine the horror show they must have gone thru. Oh well, pays your money, takes your chances... Only speed I ever kept eye open for was Preludin and dizoxin (sp?). And we often took pills out of bottles, so couldn't be traced back...
And I agree with poster's point on benzos. My own bias is because guys on methadone maintenance, always were hustling docs, or other dopefiends, for benzos to make the high "better". They always seemed *really* fucked up. I don't mean fucked up *loaded*, I mean fucked up, like "nobody home..." Look at those clowns on Methadonia. Benzos w/methadone, and being junkies, always wanting more. Of course I never did like just sitting around drooling and staring at my foot anyway, so I'm biased against that whole scene. I didn't like anything made me unable to take care of myself, and I'd see too many guys combining benzos w/pharmaceutical opiates in ways I found unappealing.
And the era of guys who really liked reds, rainbows, yellows, all the "als" is over. Downer freaks, the oldtime lowlife bikers scuffing around, falling down, fighting with everybody in the bar...none of'em lasted too long. I remember some L.A. bikers liked reds...man, they partied in terrible ways, man...it wasn't *right.* I was on leave from Vietnam, thumbing around, and they let me crash out at their place. Worse than war, I felt relieved to get out of there and head up to Oakland, get around some *hippies* man!
And I too had a dog I really liked, a pound puppy I adopted in Orange County. Out in Louisiana he got hearworm, and started getting siezures, and doc put him on phenobarbital...within a few weeks he ran out on Hwy90 and got ran over by car... Mourn that dog more than most people who checked out.
applesauce
12-21-2006, 08:51 PM
Thanx for all the help
sOfAKiNg - http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha02.htm
That explains the long and the short of it, but there isn't a simple answer.
You are probably taking way too much if your tolerance is that high. Be really careful. The first step is to use the dosage calculator and decide how much Valium is equal to your daily dose of klonopin, and then switch to that dose of Val. Play around with it to get it as low as possible, then follow a realistic taper schedule. Don't try to do it too fast - a lot of people make that mistake and they suffer hardcore WDs quickly, and they jump back on the benzos all the more resolved to never quit. You have to treat yourself nicely and let yourself down slow.
I have always been a "fuck it, tear the bandaid off in one swift tear and get it over with quick" kind of guy, but this is not a good time to be like that.
applesauce
12-21-2006, 09:04 PM
We did a drugstore once and sold all the reds, all the rainbows, and all the yellows to some downer freaks. These guys come back all all pissed off, I mean *really* pissed off, because apparently we'ed gotten the yellows--which we *thought* were nembutals, mixed up with some yellow-capsule speed, which I *didn't* know about. I never knew what they were, but I guess this answers it. People'ed fix all those three, too. I can imagine the horror show they must have gone thru. Oh well, pays your money, takes your chances... Only speed I ever kept eye open for was Preludin and dizoxin (sp?). And we often took pills out of bottles, so couldn't be traced back...
LOL that is hilarious! Expecting to feel the world drag down to a near-halt, and suddenly going through the roof! I'd have been ecstatic either way, myself. I like speed better, but Nembutal would be a welcome occasional change in my life. Desoxyn, pharmaceutical methamphetamine. The almighty great grandad of speed. Preludin is a phenethylamine, same as ecstasy (MDMA), you could almost literally have an orgasm shooting those. I won't put speed in my arms again, it fucked up too many good things I had in life at the time. But to me, that is THE feeling. DAMN it is good. No fear of the kill-shot like with coke, and the rush takes your legs out from under you.
And the era of guys who really liked reds, rainbows, yellows, all the "als" is over. Downer freaks, the oldtime lowlife bikers scuffing around, falling down, fighting with everybody in the bar...none of'em lasted too long. I remember some L.A. bikers liked reds...man, they partied in terrible ways, man...it wasn't *right.* I was on leave from Vietnam, thumbing around, and they let me crash out at their place. Worse than war, I felt relieved to get out of there and head up to Oakland, get around some *hippies* man!
I just thought they were fun, they were never really my "thing". I didn't know any serious barb-users, they just showed up now and then. Hendrix, Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, Elvis, Dee Dee Ramone, Abbie Hoffman - a lot of people loved `em.
And I too had a dog I really liked, a pound puppy I adopted in Orange County. Out in Louisiana he got hearworm, and started getting siezures, and doc put him on phenobarbital...within a few weeks he ran out on Hwy90 and got ran over by car... Mourn that dog more than most people who checked out.
I almost always miss animals more than people. Animals often make better friends. Your dog will never fuck you over. Unless it is over a woman, of course - then all bets are off.
pinion
12-21-2006, 09:48 PM
I like my Valium. The script is cheap, they go great with a bottle of wine and they're the best sleeping pill I've ever had - they're also the best benzo to taper off of due to the crazy long half-life. Can't remember shit these days but oh well, growing up constantly hitting on the PNW sticky gooey took a permanent toll on my memory anyways..
I'd love to find some Seconal though. I've done most things that I want to, but that's one I've never come across. I know it turns people into big dummies but I just wanna try it once or twice. Do they still write for that stuff overseas?? I've heard wonderful stories about bumping that stuff..
satori
12-22-2006, 02:07 AM
Im not saying benzo's are fun or great for recreation. I have never taken it for that purpose only for sleep and anxiety. I have just read a ton of posts about how "evil"they are. Here and on other sites. Felt i should come to the big drug co's defense. That plus having terrible treatment resistant anxiety means benzo's = life saver (treatment resisistant to things like ssri's etc). Its true they are a bitch to get off of but so would a bottle a day vodka addiction (vodka as an example because its my old favorite and much easier to down).
I hear a lot of horror stories about benzo and opiate withdrawal. I even went into a delesional state once when i stopped clonopin cold turkey and it took me a long time to recover but if i didnt have them right now i would probably be in a mental hospital though .... it does still remain an option. When people talk about how bad the WD is off of 10+mg a day i have to wonder what they were expecting at the end. Then again i made mistakes and cursed kpins for a while and praised xanax due to the short half life (less build up of the medication). Because of the bad experience im afraid to take more then .5 and at most 1mg so i dont have to worry about a lot of the stuff other people do.
Sorry i went on and on its my 3:00 in the morning energy rush.
moviebuff927
12-22-2006, 02:17 AM
I like my Valium. The script is cheap, they go great with a bottle of wine and they're the best sleeping pill I've ever had - they're also the best benzo to taper off of due to the crazy long half-life. Can't remember shit these days but oh well, growing up constantly hitting on the PNW sticky gooey took a permanent toll on my memory anyways..
I'd love to find some Seconal though. I've done most things that I want to, but that's one I've never come across. I know it turns people into big dummies but I just wanna try it once or twice. Do they still write for that stuff overseas?? I've heard wonderful stories about bumping that stuff..
Seconal is rarely found anywhere. It's still available in the U.S. but NO doctor will write you a prescription for it. The only way I know how to get it is if you have cancer and move to Oregon. They have the only U.S. legal physician assisted suicide. The doctor writes you a script for either Seconal or Nembutal (both are pretty much the same, secobarbital and pentobarbital are given in the same dose units so they're subsituted for each other if the other isn't available) and you take 100+ pills of either the Seconal or Nembutal. Within 20 minutes you're dead.
Earlier this year I got my hands on 30 100mg Seconal capsules. Man, those were the most fun. It was like being drunk and high at the same time. But, I kept on taking more on top of more and ended up in the hospital. Not fun. Too easy to OD on, but very fun. That's probably why they're so controlled.
If you do ever get cancer though (I'm not wishing it on you, but that's about the only way you'll get it) then tell the doctor in Oregon you don't want to live the rest of your life in agonizing pain. They'll ask you some questions and write you a script for Seconal with the hopes you'll commit suicide. But you don't have to...you can abuse them...nobody will ever know. Tell the doctor you just couldn't do it.
But aside from cancer or some life-threatening disease, good luck.
They are fun, though. Definately better than any benzo I've taken by far. Used to be called reds or red devils. Think Valley of the Dolls. The "dolls" were Seconal. Killed more than it's share of people either on purpose or by accident.
Also, they give it to you if you die by lethal injection.
pinion
12-22-2006, 03:03 AM
Hmm. Kinda tough to fake cancer and I'm not really down with the death row thing. Might have to put the seconal idea hold for awhile..
Can you get it in Mexico?
Can you get it in Mexico?
No
applesauce
12-23-2006, 08:11 AM
Kinda tough to fake cancer
Yeah it is - I gave up trying, and now I hang out at the cancer ward, hoping I'll catch it.
Yeah it is - I gave up trying, and now I hang out at the cancer ward, hoping I'll catch it.
I get the jovial nature of the joke and all and not bein an ass or anything cause I know you're just jokin. But I can think of someone with cancer who would be more than happy to pass it off on ya if you were wanting it so bad. Actually no they wouldn't, they'd prob give you their right arm if you really needed one.
applesauce
12-23-2006, 08:45 AM
Yeah in retrospect even joking like that was probably in bad taste, hope I didn't offend anyone.
I'm sure everyone here has lost someone they know to cancer and it doesn't look like the way I'd want to go. Medical treatment seems to be getting better, and as the results of the Human Genome project are assayed, hopefully it will get better even still. And I wager that fact just makes it all the more difficult on people who are suffering right now, knowing that in a few years their chances of beating it will be exponentially better.
Not a fun topic, and on reflection, I actually wish I could un-post my wisecrack. I know it will be taken in the right joking context, but it still wasn't funny enough to warrant depressing anyone.
My genuine apologizes if it did.
youwonhundred
12-23-2006, 08:53 AM
I'm gonna quote a friend of mine and something he said earlier tonight. "Don't sweat the small stuff, and to be perfectly honest, its all small stuff."
I know cancer isn't something to joke about, cause I remember what it was like when my gramps died of leukemia about 15 years ago, but I'm pretty sure everyone took the joke as it was intended. I hate to see anybody in pain, cause I do know what its like, and I hate it, but every time I feel like griping about my aches, I always think, it could be worse.
Anyway, my point was, dont beat yaself up over it too much. Cant speak for everyone else, can only speak for myself here, but I took it as a joke (in poor taste, but what the fuck can you do, right?)
devilsdrug
12-23-2006, 08:54 AM
shit ive had so many reds it aint funny , took orders every day for the next am , sold thousands and thousands of them100bucks for a thousand sold them 25 cents a piece 6 for dollar or so , this way i had no product on me when school started , i swear every day for couple years this went on had whites and weed sometimes too
Yeah dude, I know it was just a joke. I wasn't tryin to beat up on ya or anything like that, just sayin that for those suffering with cancer I'm sure it's very difficult. But I didn't mean it to sound like I was bein an ass to ya or anything.
SpecialGuy69
12-23-2006, 09:59 AM
^ ^ ^ ass. ^ ^ ^
applesauce
12-23-2006, 10:16 AM
^ ^ ^ pothead ^ ^ ^
I resemble that remark!
Papa Verine
12-23-2006, 10:23 AM
I resemble that remark!
Me too. If you're walking in a public place it's good to be smoking a joint. You will immediated attract like-minded people and certainly make some new connections for "real" drugs!!!
If you're walking in a public place it's good to be smoking a joint.
I assure you that doesn't go over so well here in Utah :p And I don't have any money for pot :( That and I don't think I can listen to any more regae while I'm waitin for the dude to weigh it out, and then he wants to smoke a bowl (of my shit) While he tells me about something he read in high times, or how last night he go "sooooooooooooo fuckin blazed man"
pinion
12-23-2006, 07:18 PM
I assure you that doesn't go over so well here in Utah :p
Hehe, I spent a few months in Park City last year shredding up that magical Wasatch powder that you are SOOO blessed with in Utah (if you happen to appreciate that sort of thing..) I'm a die hard skier, I've skied a lot of different places and I swear the Wasatch has to be the best mountain range in the world in terms of terrain and snow quality combined.
I actually considered living there permanently for awhile but the Mormon undertone and shit wages were enough to make me decide that driving and/or flying in to shred up Alta a couple times a year would have to suffice. I think I'll just have to settle for Sierra Cement and an 8hr drive to the LCC if I feel inclined. I nearly went to Ogden to spend this winter as a ski bum again this year, but decided that I'd rather just get a real job in CA and make weekly trips up to Tahoe and have enough money to jump on a plane and go storm chasing if I want..
Strange place, Utah. Nice bunch of people but yeah, probably not the smartest place to be smoking a J in public :) Even in a "worldly" place like Park City, you're asking to get thrown in the pokey for something as evil as sparking up in public..
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